The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

[ellarose24]

you might like this...

https://youtu.be/OTG7YEWkJFI

Funnily enough--I readily distribute radical acceptance PDFs all over the internet, but don't meditate on them much myself lol. I'm thinking about signing back up for a DBT class (online.)

[Alphaville]

Funnily enough--I readily distribute radical acceptance PDFs all over the internet, but don't meditate on them much myself lol. I'm thinking about signing back up for a DBT class (online.)

hah! do it.

and radically accept that you bought that watch. it's a good watch! 14 days returns no questions asked as i recall, so... if it was terrible you would have returned it.

every now and then i feel tempted to get one for myself.

maybe some day if i have a reason. but you do have a reason. so it's a good thing.

[ertyu]

Could probably use a link to both the class and the pdfs...

[Alphaville]

Could probably use a link to both the class and the pdfs...

i know that wasn't for me, but in the meantime check out the bibliography

https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/2 ... _M_Linehan

[ellarose24]

Could probably use a link to both the class and the pdfs...

Here's the best resource I've found https://adoeci.com/sites/default/files/ ... rkbook.pdf

But you do need a class. If possible, I'd see if there is an actual program near you for in person DBT(if you have insurance that covers it).

If not (I didn't) There are several online spaces. I've used emotionallysensitive.com. It does require quite a bit of money, can't remember how much per "course" and it's not accepted by insurance.

However,I know many people who have self-taught their way through therapy and have quite a bit of resources on that front. I'll try and compose a master list perhaps in another thread under health or something--and ping you when I have time, likely this weekend. It's something I've wanted to do for some time as I feel mental health is often overlooked here, and who better than to come up with ways around the institution of mental health and move to self-learning and self-taught but this forum?

[ellarose24]

Oh and--these are the two PDFs I send to people constantly while ignoring myself:

[ertyu]

Got this DBT® Skills Training Handouts and Worksheets, Second Edition

I think that's where those are from, there's an entire binder of them. Alphaville nailed it, it was one of the books from the list he sent - thanks man

here is one I think I can particularly use:



The radical acceptance one is tricky. Sometimes people don't suffer because they refuse to accept reality, sometimes they suffer because others are legitimately being shitty and enjoying the ego trip. Sometimes they suffer bc of social injustice. I'll need to think on this -- where is the line between "not fighting reality" and "im a doormat, i'll just accept this abuse."

[Alphaville]

where is the line between "not fighting reality" and "im a doormat, i'll just accept this abuse."

it's not a line, it's a huge massive gap like the mariana trench.

e.g. to defend yourself against abuse first you have to accept the fact that you're being abused.

some people never even get there--they just go straight into denial.


eg this classic cartoon

[AnalyticalEngine]

I am an atheist, so please forgive me for quoting the serenity prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Knowing the difference is, I think, one of the most difficult parts of life. You don't want to be a doormat, but neither do you want to tilt at windmills. Knowing the difference between these things is never easy and there will never be a clear answer. One must simply continually do his or her best with the knowledge that we are bound to screw it up. That's okay though, because what really matters is that we keep trying.

[ellarose24]

The radical acceptance one is tricky. Sometimes people don't suffer because they refuse to accept reality, sometimes they suffer because others are legitimately being shitty and enjoying the ego trip. Sometimes they suffer bc of social injustice. I'll need to think on this -- where is the line between "not fighting reality" and "im a doormat, i'll just accept this abuse."

I don't think the point is to stop suffering, it's to accept suffering as part of reality, and part of the choices and life you have made for yourself, yes that does include suffering because you are fighting the good fight or inversely choices that led you to an abusive relationship. It's saying suffering is a part of life and running from it or denying reality will only amplify it instead of accepting it as natural and a consequence of life and/or your choices.

[Alphaville]

I don't think the point is to stop suffering, it's to accept suffering as part of reality, and part of the choices and life you have made for yourself, yes that does include suffering because you are fighting the good fight or inversely choices that led you to an abusive relationship. It's saying suffering is a part of life and running from it or denying reality will only amplify it instead of accepting it as natural and a consequence of life and/or your choices.

in zen which is where she took this from there's a difference between pain and suffering.

a teacher once told us "buddhism promises the end of suffering, not the end of pain"

that much is sketched out in the handouts pasted above.... accept pain to avoid suffering.

--

eta: here's some random blog expounding on the subject: https://stephaniedobbin.com/hmc-day-12- ... wo-arrows/

[ellarose24]

in zen which is where she took this from there's a difference between pain and suffering.

a teacher once told us "buddhism promises the end of suffering, not the end of pain"

that much is sketched out in the handouts pasted above.... accept pain to avoid suffering.

--

eta: here's some random blog expounding on the subject: https://stephaniedobbin.com/hmc-day-12- ... wo-arrows/

Further evidence I should actually digest these at one point

[Alphaville]

Further evidence I should actually digest these at one point

yeah part of it is a bit of a language barrier/ lost in translation thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duḥkha

anyway the philologists will debate to no end, but here in a dbt (and american zen) context, regardless of usage and dictionaries and ancient languages and modern english, she attempts to mark the difference between the two.

anyway im no zen master lol, but i found out today she actually is one.

[ellarose24]

-M took away my computer, I am 100% addicted to online spaces

-I found some awesome radfems to protest with. But they are lesbian separatists. I’ve been down this road before, and it starts with “comphet” and ends with me reframing trauma from men as disgust until someone’s convinced me I’m a lesbian. (I am very bisexual, but certainly sexually attracted to men.)

-I decided I’m done with radical feminism. The only solution is separatism. They’re getting taken over by the right anyways. And I’m just sick of overanalyzing everything I like and enjoy and figuring out how the patriarchy is fucking me up the ass.

At one point, all dogmas begin to introduce original sin and guilt and then your entire life is spent praying for forgiveness—in the case of radical feminism it is forgiveness that I still live with a male and shave my legs and like to dissociatively fantasize about a traditional lifestyle.

Is it possible that I was not made for communities? I think so. I tend to blow up friendships depending on where I am in an episode. BUT I also remember the realization in my late teens/early 20s that I really really like being alone. This was while I was doing journaling via The Artists Way. I never feel really whole unless I’m alone. Could some people be wired that way?

I’m back in reality. I’m returning a bunch of shit I bought, some stuff I bought for a networking golf tournament this weekend and some for a protest, neither of which I’m going to lol.

I’m kind of picking up pieces again. Money wise. Erm health wise, yikes. Even hygiene. All the dominos fell really. I’ve found my resting heart rate is 185. I’m gaining weight. I cut my hair and now look like John Denver. I’m so irritable that M is hiding away from me.

Well, sometimes it’s kind of fun when you see you’ve blown it all up and you get to rebuild. I mean, really I didn’t even blow it up comparatively, just meandered off the trail and I’m just back to where I can see it again.

Tried to get accommodations at work but apparently “being able to use accrued sick time as you need it” is not a reasonable accommodation. (Three times in three months equal disciplinary action). They suggested FMLA instead. So be it.

All in all I think I’m coming back slowly but surely. My main goal is really my health. Heart rate is pretty high. I’ve decided to be pretty selfish with my attention and views going forward. Radical feminism seems to be a net negative and I spend 3/4 of my time fighting over what we should be fighting over. I could be studying for CFP instead or even reading about native gardening. Pretty sure I came to this conclusion last time but the Texas bill made me spin out of control.

Back to the grind.

[Alifelongme]

Hi ella. Thank you for your journal(s)!

I’ve been following this forum for about 10 years and I like reading specific topics more than journals. But your journal, (wo)man.... I mean... oh ..my..gosh! I even went back to your first one and read it from the beginning. I can relate to so many things you describe that I even decided to join the forum so that I can comment. Your insight and self reflections are amazing! Thank you.

I’m late-diagnosis ASD, Asperger’s to be precise. I know you were diagnosed with bipolar but I seriously urge you to consider ASD as well. One does not exclude the other.

Although you say you don’t have social issues, your description of how you wish life came “with the manual”, that wearing a prescribed female social mask is so confusing and exhausting, feeling behind 10-20 years in the game, sensory and emotional crashes, - all these are exactly the Dx for Asperger’s and signs of autistic burnout.

“The world is an overwhelming place for us – it doesn’t have to be, but the way it’s set up with colours, noise and lights and people and expectations makes it so.

We lose ourselves in repetitive behaviour, we Hyperfocus, we Stim, we become different characters or act as animals, we script conversations, we withdraw, we hide in worlds inside our heads, we close ourselves off, or equally sometimes explode outwards, we Mask – all in an effort to endure this world we live in, to survive, to find balance with ourselves internally and externally and also, to hide who we we are – to make Non-Autistic people accept us, because we don’t find acceptance as ourselves.

This is why we burn out.” https://theautisticadvocate.com/2018/05 ... c-burnout/

“Many autistic people are taught from a young age that they must “mask” their autism in order to be accepted in society...

Masking often takes an exceptional amount of cognitive and emotional energy. Some autistic people consciously monitor their body language and tone of voice as they talk. Others become hypervigilant for signs that they have accidentally upset someone.” https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/autist ... -080620197

I know it’s a regular occurrence for me. I even retired “early” when crashes became unbearable. So, for what it’s worth...just be kind to yourself.

Sorry for the info dump. It comes with the condition I suppose

[ellarose24]

@alifelongme

Hi! I have long suspected I have ASD. Psychs are weird though. I went to one of the top doctors in my area for diagnosing ASD and she said I was a “highly sensitive person” who has had extensive trauma.

I really dislike the HSP label. It tries to make my sensory problems and crashes feel like woo. And a lot of people who are labeled HSP go on to say such ridiculous things as they are “empaths.” It is my opinion that HSP is essentially autism for females depending on the practitioner.

I do not discuss the “labels” I have not been diagnosed with, but I’m 99% sure I’m on the spectrum as you state. I just don’t like to apply diagnostic labels that I’m no diagnosed with out of respect. Either way, I’ve found getting a diagnosis of ASD is expensive and they will most likely take my impeccable masking as me not being ASD. The fact that I can hold a job etc made the psych say “there’s really no point to give you the label when you already have bipolar for accommodations.”

Another label I secretly apply to myself despite doctors refusing to do so is BPD. Because I don’t have grand displays of self harm or the like, doctors will only say I have “bpd tendencies.” However when I read about BPD it describes me to a tee (especially quiet BPD).

It’s funny because surely these psychs know that those diagnosed with bipolar have a much higher rate of multiple comorbid disorders? But it seems that they think “well, she’s already got one, what’s the use of the others.”

Anyways thanks for you affirmation. I follow many ASD communities to get help, especially with sensory problems. It would be nice if those could be taken a little more seriously. And also I would feel a bit better asking for accommodation for ASD than BP, because it feels the public thinks it is more “real” somehow.

Either way I am trying very hard not to let diagnoses defined me. It’s a tricky situation, I think even trickier if you are a high functioning (wo)man. Thanks again for your input.

[Gilberto de Piento]

I’ve found my resting heart rate is 185.

Have you seen a doctor for this? 185 is typical of an intense anaerobic workout, not a reasonable resting heart rate.

[white belt]

Have you seen a doctor for this? 185 is typical of an intense anaerobic workout, not a reasonable resting heart rate.

I agree. My ex-GF was prescribed beta blockers and had a resting heart rate significantly lower than that (100-120?). She said if felt like her heart was always bouncing out of her chest even when relaxed.

[ellarose24]

I agree. My ex-GF was prescribed beta blockers and had a resting heart rate significantly lower than that (100-120?). She said if felt like her heart was always bouncing out of her chest even when relaxed.

So sorry mistyped due to my phone! It’s 85. It’s actually gone down, it was averaging 115 or so for a while. Not sure if medication or not, but my goal is to get it to 70s through diet/exercise.

[Alphaville]

So sorry mistyped due to my phone! It’s 85.

lmao

was gonna say, i swear.