The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 6:41 pm
Texas' new abortion law and various incidents with my hispanic partner have us both seriously considering leaving the state.
yay!

i could never live in that state. bad place for mental health in general. shoulda coulda woulda... gone with the cheapest ac :lol:

srsly, some years ago we considered moving to austin but... ooof! no.

same reason we moved from rural to urban btw

ok on now to read the rest. sorry, got excited about the possibility ha ha ha ha.

denver is nice!

eta:
ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 6:41 pm
Partner is also tentatively bringing up marriage. Would be good for health insurance, but I don't ever ever ever want to be dependent on anyone. I really think we could ERE in the next 5 years if I put both of our savings together, but I refuse to do that. I don't believe in commingling assets. I hate feeling indebted to anyone.
hm... i on the other hand can't imagine living without family interdependence. creo que eso es cultural.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Deleting because irrelevant and also why
Last edited by ellarose24 on Wed May 19, 2021 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 7:17 pm
#daddyissues
hahaha yeah, sounds like it. not your fault though.

healthy interdependence is nothing like that :D

i don't know how to explain right now. i guess it's a bit of an unattainable idea that one strives for...

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

This week I have had to reassess quite a bit.

This is as I become adjusted to my new higher dosage of medicine, and sleep about 10 hours and need 3 hours to wake up. That's 13 hours :cry:

So dialed back my "goals" to walking 30 minutes a day and showing up to work every day. This is okay, it will likely only take 2 weeks to get adjusted, however, I have gone from 25 mg to 250 mg in 6 months. My doctor has stated that 2 weeks of stability and I can back off. But I don't seem to get 2 weeks of full stability.

I wonder how much more money I spend on my mental health specifically because of a job.
Problems with implementing strategies. The main problem is that the amount I have to output on any given day is less than the average person--mostly due to medicine side-effects, but also due to underlying illness management.

This has been illustrated and made popular by the notorious "spoons" therapy which is made fun of frequently. But it is another way I feel, like 7wb stated, mentally ill are canaries in the coal mine. Having a career makes the mastery or implementation of any other skills/systems difficult if not impossible--projects are relegated fro weekends.

With the spoons theory--which I will translate as I believe many here would roll their eyes at the original essay

-Those with chronic illnesses have reduced energy outputs (original essay uses spoons as a currency for these outputs, I am not sure why). Think of energy available as currency. Perhaps the average person is given 100 units of currency to spends and different actions have different prices. Perhaps work is 35 units, house work 15, etc etc. Once you reach your 100, you become ineffective.

For someone with a chronic illness, not only are you allocated less energy units, the cost to spend those units is higher. For instance, I am already at a disadvantage as my medicine requires 13 hours to wake up from. During depressive spells, I may only get enough units to get out of be for instance. Sometimes going to work spends all of my energy. (I believe this explains the 40-60% unemployment for people like me).

However--mania would give me, for instance, 3-4X the average persons budget. But this you can think of like credit, and will put you into a large deficit later on (depression).

Spending all of one's energy on keeping a job reduces the energy needed for lifestyle changes, habirs, or "self-care." WIthout self-care, you become increasingly dependent on relegating this care to psychiatrists, therapists, or in extreme cases--outpatient hospitals.

This reinforces dependence on job--at least in the US where health care is not provided. This creates cycle of increasingly unwell people who are constantly in scarictiy mindset. Because job makes one unwell, because statists show you should be happy for even keeping a job, and because you have learned helplessness out of necessity (no energy for agency, dependent on outsources mental health care--mental health care itself is an example of Jacobs illustration of filling holes and then outsourcing soiciety to dig holes back just to be filled again"

This also plays into consumption. Being in a constant energy deficit means you move to the only other currency you have--money.

Mentally ill people frequently enourage each other to outsource and do what they need to keep functioning--functioning meaning holding a job.

This is why self-care is now intrinsically tied to consumption. I believe this started in chronic/mental illness communities and was dispersed to the general public.

If main goal is to keep job, but keeping job puts you in energy deficit, you will outsource. This means take-out, perhaps even consumption to outsource dopamine hit--which temporarly increases energy reserves similar to caffeine.

Almost all studies on mentally ill function use "job" as an indicator of how well they function at life. In fact, to be granted disability--you have to prove that you cannot hold a job in any way or function. It does not matter if the job itself causes recurring episodes, what matters is if you can do it. That is why you typically need repeated hospitalizations and loss of jobs before being granted disability. This is well known in the bipolar community. Having a job means, to society, that you are high-functioning, despite holding a job making you more and more ill.

For this reason, until I can quit my job, I think the farthest I can progress is advanved consumer. I can likely get my savings rate pretty high, but building up other skills/hobbies is left to weekends. Trying to implement these while having my job was over-extending myself. For this reasons--my emphasis necessarily has to exist in the world of budgets, money, savings, etc.

I may, in time, get a part time job. My savings will likely stagnate--but the other currency (energy) will be improved so that I have focus on what I want. For that goal--I would like $300K saved and $20K liquid net worth. long way to go.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by jacob »

In the 1990s and early 2000s before the substantially more materialist Minimalism framework became popular, "Simple Living" was the de facto lens. Simple Living was less about owning 37 Apple things and outsourcing chores to restaurants and more about deliberately eliminating "upkeep" in one's life. E.g. extra rooms to clean, TV shows that must be watched, complicated eating habits, ...

Another thing about spoon theory is that significant personal change also costs a significant number of spoons (see e.g. Maslow albeit not explicit). A transformation will or rather can not happen unless there's a certain number of spoons available. E.g. WL4-5 might cost 10 spoons, WL5-6 might cost 30 spoons, WL6-7,8 may be 20, ... and so on. Same reason why monks, etc. go into monasteries with their very simple and fixed rules and routines to release a significant number of spoons.

Changing things might thus require nixing some superfluous upkeep rather than outsourcing it.
(Usually the first thing to go for such things would be the TV or other sources of video.)

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ertyu »

ellarose24 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:56 am

Spending all of one's energy on keeping a job reduces the energy needed for lifestyle changes, habirs, or "self-care." WIthout self-care, you become increasingly dependent on relegating this care to psychiatrists, therapists, or in extreme cases--outpatient hospitals.

This reinforces dependence on job--at least in the US where health care is not provided. This creates cycle of increasingly unwell people who are constantly in scarictiy mindset. Because job makes one unwell, because statists show you should be happy for even keeping a job, and because you have learned helplessness out of necessity (no energy for agency, dependent on outsources mental health care--mental health care itself is an example of Jacobs illustration of filling holes and then outsourcing soiciety to dig holes back just to be filled again"

This also plays into consumption. Being in a constant energy deficit means you move to the only other currency you have--money.

Mentally ill people frequently enourage each other to outsource and do what they need to keep functioning--functioning meaning holding a job.

This is why self-care is now intrinsically tied to consumption. I believe this started in chronic/mental illness communities and was dispersed to the general public.

If main goal is to keep job, but keeping job puts you in energy deficit, you will outsource. This means take-out, perhaps even consumption to outsource dopamine hit--which temporarly increases energy reserves similar to caffeine.

Almost all studies on mentally ill function use "job" as an indicator of how well they function at life. In fact, to be granted disability--you have to prove that you cannot hold a job in any way or function. It does not matter if the job itself causes recurring episodes, what matters is if you can do it. That is why you typically need repeated hospitalizations and loss of jobs before being granted disability. This is well known in the bipolar community. Having a job means, to society, that you are high-functioning, despite holding a job making you more and more ill.
This was my exact experience with full time work. I came here to ask people for advice how to survive having a job, they decided i'm less than for not doing enough outside of work. In general, if you find yourself in an energy deficit such as you describe, it's seen as your fault - if you only jogged, hit the gym, cooked, took care to have a full social life, etcetera, you wouldn't have a hard time trying to survive your job to start with. Felt victim-blamed and like i wanted to stab people a little.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Is there anything you can do to wake up faster? I wouldn't suggest stimulants. Maybe put on some fast paced, exciting music, do something to get your heart rate up, or try a cold shower.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Frita »

@ellarose24
Your last entry describes the conundrum for many people with chronic health conditions and/or disabilities. I agree with @ertyu too; poor jobfit, burnout, and/or toxic work environment can create these conditions. I would also include caregivers for these individuals into this category as well.

@Jacob
Yes, living simply through routines/minimalism/like-minded community can help. My grandparents were born circa 1900 +/- so I saw this in action and got to participate. I wonder if it is more challenging if one has not experienced it firsthand?

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:56 am
Almost all studies on mentally ill function use "job" as an indicator of how well they function at life. In fact, to be granted disability--you have to prove that you cannot hold a job in any way or function. It does not matter if the job itself causes recurring episodes, what matters is if you can do it. That is why you typically need repeated hospitalizations and loss of jobs before being granted disability. This is well known in the bipolar community. Having a job means, to society, that you are high-functioning, despite holding a job making you more and more ill.
yes... one of my bipolar friends was officially disabled. he said he did it to avoid paying student loans, but while he was always working on something, i think he really couldn't have a job-job. so he had himself certified and kept the bill collectors at bay.

he had health insurance through his then-wife's job, so he could get his meds. but the quality of healthcare is important too. eg he didn't have a therapist at the time, i don't know that there were any decent therapists where we lived back then.

eventually his wife divorced him and had to pay him spousal support. but that didn't last forever. i don't know what he did afterwards for healthcare. i know that later he was employed, but i don't think he had the best healthcare.

somewhere upthread you said that you're successful at a job you hate. that has to be stressful. the other thing i noticed (refrained from mentioning early) was that you seem to have issues with rich people, eg people you grew up with who had family money. and originally i was going to say something along the lines of you forge those people and not let them haunt you, but... your job brings you back in touch with that social class, i believe? and so i said nothing.

this however doesn't mean that you're necessarily disabled. but what it means is that maybe you can have a less stressful job that makes accommodations for your illness and still provides you with good benefits. e.g. maybe something "steady" and compliant with the law, where they can make accommodations, like government. because unfortunately, yes, without good doctors and a support team, things can get... difficult. yes, it's not fair that we live in this state of savagery when it comes to healthcare, but it is what it is.

so a safety net might be going to a place that offers medicaid expansion, which... is not great, but is a last resort. then again i don't know wtf is going on with california vs. texas currently at the supreme court and what that may mean for the aca. but colorado is a petitioner in that lawsuit so, again... a safe and favorable environment is essential. coping with an unfavorable environment also eats spoons.

----

eta: for me, living in a walkable part of a city without need for a car... simplifies my living and saves a lot of spoons.

also tv/movies/games, again for me, are a great cheap way to stop thinking thinking thinking thinking all the time until my head goes kaboom worrying or getting angry about stuff. a little forgetting... goes a long way.

in fact during stressful times my wife and i like to watch episodes of "i shouldn't be alive" as a form of relief. i can't explain this, but seeing people in truly shitty circumstances (who nevertheless survived) makes our stresses more tolerable. also, yeah... we laugh... i mean it's always some kind of risk-taking adventurer just asking for trouble someplace beyond rescue...

for more on the judicious use of distraction, see: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... istraction
Distraction often works to prevent a slip-up. When a negative emotion surfaces, our tendency is to go over the problem repeatedly and ruminate on our worries and fears. Rather than improving the situation, this doubles the suffering. In addition to the original concern, you have the added worry and negativity brought on by either resisting or dwelling on the problem.

Distraction breaks this cycle. It takes you out of your negative, unconscious, and habitual way of thinking, reduces the intensity of the negative emotion so it is easier to manage, and allows you to take a conscious time-out. That doesn’t mean you deny or run away from difficult emotions. Later, you’ll return to the emotion and process it when you’re in a better position to come up with a creative resolution.
tragicomedy ftw :mrgreen:

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

jacob wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 9:34 am

Changing things might thus require nixing some superfluous upkeep rather than outsourcing it.
(Usually the first thing to go for such things would be the TV or other sources of video.)
Alphaville wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 10:27 am

also tv/movies/games, again for me, are a great cheap way to stop thinking thinking thinking thinking all the time until my head goes kaboom worrying or getting angry about stuff. a little forgetting... goes a long way.

in fact during stressful times my wife and i like to watch episodes of "i shouldn't be alive" as a form of relief. i can't explain this, but seeing people in truly shitty circumstances (who nevertheless survived) makes our stresses more tolerable. also, yeah... we laugh... i mean it's always some kind of risk-taking adventurer just asking for trouble someplace beyond rescue...

for more on the judicious use of distraction, see: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... istraction



tragicomedy ftw :mrgreen:
I think there is an in between in both of these comments that I appreciate being illuminated. For me, distraction comes from researching very stressful things that I am passionate about. (feminism). This feels productive, but in reality I don't actually DO anything--and I reduce energy reserves. (With my non-ERE-sanctioned Apple watch, I found my heart rate hit 100 while reading about Texas new abortion law).

Although the digital minimalism book was rather pretentious pandering--I do agree that being intentional with technology is a very important point. I get obsessive with topics that increase stress--meaning I am wasting valuable energy that could be used on something else.

Similarly, my last episode seemed to come after watching "The Morning Show"--a show about sexual harassment. I'm not sure yet if I should follow Jacob's suggestion of totally getting rid of such ditractions, or Alphaville's suggestion of intentionally using distractions in a more healthy manner (like playing light-hearted video games or watching comedies). Will have to think more on that.
Dream of Freedom wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 10:11 am
Is there anything you can do to wake up faster? I wouldn't suggest stimulants. Maybe put on some fast paced, exciting music, do something to get your heart rate up, or try a cold shower.
There really isn't while I am getting adjusted. Seroquel is one of the most sedating drugs that exist, I sleep through multiple alarms--I even moved my coffee maker into the bedroom and put it on a timer, asked my partner to turn the TV on loud and open windows. If I could GET up, perhaps I could take a cold shower. I just incorporate all of the noises and sensory feelings into my dreams. I have also noticed that my heart rate is below 60 for the first 2-3 hours I wake up which is typically only in deep sleep. It's just a waiting game.
ertyu wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 10:02 am

@ertyu--


Ah yeah, some people don't get it. But I do find it really important for me to practice whatever agency is possible, while understanding I won't ever be up to normal standards. Like, I'm ill--but I still want to fight and do whatever i can--knowing full well I may fail. Requires constant adjustment. It's exhausting. But it's my life and it's the only one I got. Did you find leaving full time work helped with your mental health? I am really flirting with the idea. I think I could even use FMLA to do this in my current role.

(Sorry ertyu something funky happened with quoting you and I can't seem to fix it)

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Dream of Freedom »

ellarose24 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 11:47 am

If I could GET up, perhaps I could take a cold shower.
I thought you meant that you were languid had brain fog and are just plain useless for the first 3 hours. People often tell me that they aren't awake yet or aren't awake when they first get up and that is what they mean. You literally don't get out of bed. My bad.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Take very good care of yourself. It sounds to me like you have a very mature outlook on your bipolar tendencies.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 11:47 am
Similarly, my last episode seemed to come after watching "The Morning Show"--a show about sexual harassment. I'm not sure yet if I should follow Jacob's suggestion of totally getting rid of such ditractions, or Alphaville's suggestion of intentionally using distractions in a more healthy manner (like playing light-hearted video games or watching comedies). Will have to think more on that.
that's not a distraction, that's derailment. some stories are stressful. e.g. when i watch handmaid's tale i have to pause midway and walk off the stress for a while. great show, but not easy to stomach. i can see how some people would be deeply affected from something like that.

but on the lighter end of things... my wife uses yotube cat videos to quell her anxious tendencies. cat videos, news bloopers on youtube... black adder episodes... fawlty towers on repeat...

eg news bloopers: https://youtu.be/NSUjXhWuGSc
a few stupid choices but several are roflworthy (a cougar!)

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Dream of Freedom wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 12:07 pm
I thought you meant that you were languid had brain fog and are just plain useless for the first 3 hours. People often tell me that they aren't awake yet or aren't awake when they first get up and that is what they mean. You literally don't get out of bed. My bad.
Hmmm.. maybe I was trying to make an excuse for myself--as while it does take about an hour of alarms to actually wake up... the next three hours are spent laying in bed and usually on the computer while I down 2-3 cups of coffee.

I know it sounds like I may be making excuses, but strong sedatives are something else. It is usually 2 PM before I feel awake--and by then I've already walked the dogs, eaten breakfast, and been at work for several hours.

However, I have wondered--since my heart rate is so low even when "awake" in the morning--perhaps increasing heart rate would help. It's so god damned hard though. Remember it isn't necessarily brain fog... I'm literally drugged. I am having a hard time figuring out agency and responsibility in this regard and giving myself a break.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

just rewatched the first episode of "malcolm in the middle" which i had not seen literally in 20 years.

his friend stevie says he's not allowed to watch tv because his mom thinks tv makes you stupid

malcolm looks at the camera and says no, tv makes you normal :lol:

"he's in a wheelchair, how can they do that to him?" he says.

this jives a little bit with what i remember from chatting online with a guy with mental health issues, years ago. perhaps schizothymic? he said more or less the same thing. he said at the hospitals they give you meds and you watch tv all day, which teaches you how to be normal... or something like that. can't recall the exact words.

at the time i read that, i found it shocking, tv! my enemy! i used to destroy actual tvs, in my day. crt screens gone blamo. but... he was right, in a way. television... defines "normal" in a social era. to cope with this you need media literacy, so you know to handle it, and can regulate your own eccentricity.

i feel like i'm suddenly back in a cultural studies course...

any cronenberg fans, here? videodrome? (and everything else)

in any case:

@ella: i'd check with the therapist about what is safe to watch/do. ofc the shrink is just a person in the end but if they're smart they should be able to provide solid pointers. (that's what good healthcare buys you: a thinker, not a script.)

things my wife can't watch (can, but grosses her out): american horror story, lars von trier's antichrist.
things i like to watch before sleeping: old episodes of the x-files :lol:
things she's watching before sleeping, currently: golden girls on hulu lmao (i've ended up looking)
things that crack us up at the end of a long day even though they're absurdly brutal: rick & morty. how do they do that? great writing is what.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

My blips have evolved into, erm, is this pre-episode or am I already in it?

Money, cigarettes, sleepless nights.

Moving medicine up, smoking joints seems to ground me as well.

Something I just want to post, for posterity. Many people who are mentally ill are, actually, trying their damned hardest. Despite what looks like a terrible mess of a human, the amount of pressure I put on myself is immense. The reason I put pressure on myself is because I am unwilling to admit that I am really ill, and because the world is also unwilling to admit mental illness is real illness--and I internalize that. It happens every time someone says "just do X" or "Have you tried Y?" or links you to the antipsych subreddit or says their friend got better by taking shrooms. And this is like a glimmer of hope for someone mentally ill--hey, maybe I'm *not* sick! Maybe the psych industry is all made up! Maybe I just need to meditate 8 hours a day!


This is not directed at anyone here, but ertyu had mentioned it and it's something I've been really struggling with. Having personal agency, Locus of Control, all of that fun stuff--some days are going to be bad and I refuse to blame myself for them anymore. (accept within reason, for instance if I stopped taking my meds or started doing drugs (besides pot)).This time I believe it was initially spurred by the abortion bill in Texas which led me back to some bad online groups (and my non ERE approved Apple Watch showed that my heart rate went to 140 multiple times while in these groups).

Here is what I have decided: I can't be like normal people. My success won't look like normal success, my happiness won't look like normal happiness, not even within the confines of what this eclectic group of journals define as success and happiness. I keep ignoring my very obvious warning signs and needs because--am I just being lazy? Am I faking it? etc etc. I'm at the point now where I might go on leave again, I'm not sure--but I am at the least taking a week off.

I mean--I am going to accept this as a physical illness. If I had some other disease, I would have had to accept long ago that my life might not be exactly how I hoped it would be. But I think holding onto this false hope just makes me more and more ill because the pressure I put on myself, negative self-talk, feeling like a failure, etc etc.

On the other hand, I am realizing some really shitty things I've done to others and need to make amends. I'm still working with M on him taking over my money, but he really dislikes this idea. Specifically because he dislikes it--I trust him implicitly. I don't know, I wonder if my income could go into a trust even? I just don't have enough money to make that worth it, nor do I want to give someone the job of handling the trust.

Ah, oh well. For now, upping meds, focusing on sleep and basic hygiene and drinking enough water. You know, the good stuff.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 9:21 pm
I mean--I am going to accept this as a physical illness. If I had some other disease, I would have had to accept long ago that my life might not be exactly how I hoped it would be. But I think holding onto this false hope just makes me more and more ill because the pressure I put on myself, negative self-talk, feeling like a failure, etc etc.
you might like this...

https://youtu.be/OTG7YEWkJFI

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Miss Lonelyhearts »

Re the trust thing: I recently read Family Wealth by James Hughes which was being discussed in another thread. A chapter is devoted to trust arrangements. One structure the author describes is trustee-protector-beneficiary. The trustee has legal control of the assets and manages/disburses them according to the rules of the trust. The beneficiary receives assets as the trustee deems appropriate. The protector is a person with the power to fire the trustee, but not to change the rules of the trust or disburse funds directly. The protector serves as a buffer and can mediate between the other two parties.

My impression is that such an arrangement is costly and may only make sense for 7- or 8-figure trusts. But perhaps there’s something to the general arrangement you could make use of—tasking your partner with hiring a third party to be custodian of your assets?

My disclaimer is that I’ve never set up anything like this personally, but perhaps worth exploring with someone professionally qualified?

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by white belt »

It actually sounds like your Apple Watch is a useful tool for monitoring when your stress levels are getting out of control. Maybe there’s a way to set notifications if your heart rate gets over a certain level as a signal that you need to slow things down? Or maybe this is just another example of someone suggesting “have you tried x?”

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

white belt wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 7:50 am
It actually sounds like your Apple Watch is a useful tool for monitoring when your stress levels are getting out of control. Maybe there’s a way to set notifications if your heart rate gets over a certain level as a signal that you need to slow things down? Or maybe this is just another example of someone suggesting “have you tried x?”
Lol no! I actually do think it is very helpful. I bought and downloaded an app called cardiogram--

Extremely helpful because: It tracks my sleep and quality of sleep (super important)

I can label activities related to heart rate--for instance--I labeled that one "internet fighting"--but I can also track coffee consumption, different media I consume, etc.

So you are absolutely right that it is helpful. Stress and Sleep are the two HUGE factors in predicting/causing episodes. This is one of those ways where ERE doesn't fit me perfectly, because I think buying the watch and this app are very helpful. I think someone could even make an app specifically for bipolar that sends warning signs for over and under sleeping and high BPM without exercise, as well as lack of exercise etc.

Of course, I could have gone the stoic route and just self-assess every day, but that is very hard mid-episode. Especially when its 2 AM and I haven't taken meds but am so caught up in my own thoughts I don't realize it. Any tool I have to attack is useful. I appreciate you saying it because I do feel some shame buying the watch, but also genuinely feel it is helping me (also holds me accountable as far as getting out of bed, meditating, etc)

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