7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Where are you and where are you going?
white belt
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by white belt »

I think the contempt for Star Wars memorabilia is funny given that you were likely the target demographic when the original film trilogy came out in the late 1970s and the 40 something guy was not even born yet.

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

kk here's a poster that explains it all lololol. a bit messy from bad design:

Image

there's even a quiz....

http://www.generationjones.com/?page_id=268

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@white belt:

The funny thing is that my contempt is due to the fact that I just missed being the demographic. I was a trying to be oh so mature girl in junior high school when Star Wars was released, and the terrible little boys I babysat loved it. So, in my mind a Star Wars fan is a 6 year old running around wearing nothing but his underpants trying to hit his brother over the head with a light saber.

@Alphaville:

Lol- Yeah, I am probably mostly Generation Jones, but I do love Nirvana and I did shave my head and I have definitely dated “Breakfast Club” Judd Nelson and I was good friends with a very large family of Catholic girls who went to the same school as Madonna. The older sisters would buy us alcohol and Playgirl on Friday nights when they were going out to disco.They also taught us how to zip on super tight jeans by lying upside down on staircase. The year Star Wars was released I cried and negotiated for two days to get my father’s permission to see R rated “Saturday Night Fever.” He finally conceded, although he later ripped up my yellowed copy of “Valley of the Dolls.” Poor guy, in the early 80s, he had a bipolar wife, three wild teenage daughters, and one wild toddler daughter to deal with. The man was a saint.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

It’s interesting how relatively minor vices such as gluttony, greed, shame and vanity can interfere with your ability to maintain flows critical at lower level Maslow pyramid (or similar yet more complex model) and how this can then impede your ability to function at higher levels towards self-actualization. For some reason, getting laid is making me feel much less “clutchy” about the boundaries of my new project.

In his “Permaculture Handbook”, Peter Bane suggests that a decent sized suburban permaculture project, such as that created by him and his partner, would best benefit from 3 adult participants; one working outside the project to bring in initial needful flow of funds and two working as a team on building project. He also implies that 3 adults working part-time outside project or other similar variations might serve. I think most other books I have read which describe similar projects, such as Holmgren’s “Retrosuburbia” or Toensmiller’s “Paradise Lot” also recommend team approach, because of somewhat surprising recognition that human labor/intelligence remains the ultimate limiting factor even on very small acreage.

Obviously, ERE is much more financially sturdy than the average permaculture project. Initial funding for permaculture projects seem to usually be cobbled together through means such as minor inheritance plus loan from friend plus maxed out credit card. A very sturdy FI investment portfolio could likely take the place of 1 of the 3 adults working towards a permaculture project. Unfortunately, mine is not that sturdy. OTOH, I do have the advantages that my project is on the smaller size and I paid cash for it and property taxes are pretty minimal. Obvious, disadvantage being that condition is pretty rough and the house might end up as just a pile of reclaimed lumber from which decent house could be built, as happened with Holmgren’s suburban project.

Anyways, my point being that now that I am more cheerful about my ability to re-establish my polyamory circle, it makes it easier for me see my way forward to establish a permaculture circle which will NOT overlap, which is the mistake that I made last time. This also relates to the mistake I made with having my sister who is also one of my best friends be my business partner and my housemate in the realm of my first urban project. When she literally went insane, too many of my linkages fell apart. I’m actually happy at this point that my former polyamour who was also my permaculture partner was available to take over the project, but at the time it just seemed like yet another in a string of sad events resulting in me losing yet another garden in which I had invested significant life energy due to relationship failure.

So, I am going to also extend invitation elsewhere, but if anybody known to me or others on this forum would like to come work with me on this project in exchange for free code illegal, extremely uncomfortable somewhat dangerous housing* and/or some sort of yet to be determined equity stake, I am now open to offers ! :D

* Selling points would be very easy to get around without car, very short bike ride to cultural center or large nature preserve, relatively quite LCOL area, lots of human diversity. If you don’t get kicked out of the shed/tiny house by authorities, your expenses could instantly be less than 1Jacob very easily.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

You've already got some strong selling points with free housing, etc. Why include equity if you don't have to? It also seems like it would complicate things. A temporary casual arrangement turns into a permanent business deal. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@GdP:

True, I just threw that in there as place holder for variety of extended possibilities.

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 4:53 pm
@GdP:

True, I just threw that in there as place holder for variety of extended possibilities.
fuckem. no possibilities! let that place be YOURS ALONE. lock, stock, and barrel.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Alphaville:

I wasn’t thinking of anything major. More like how I theoretically have equity in ginseng crop project on The Cowboy’s acreage.

OTOH, there are plenty more tiny dilapidated properties nearby, so could grow into networked neighborhood project with both private and shared equity. For simple example, somebody could help me get my project up to certain level and then continue to live there for free while working on their own nearby project. Just yesterday my neighbor told me that property values are jumping up in the neighborhood, so now would maybe be good time to get in while still extremely affordable.

sky
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by sky »

I would like to know where the property is. I'm not sure I could spend much/any time there, but I am interested. PM me, if it is sensitive info.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

In Which 7Wannabe5 Cuts Herself Some Slack and Heads Back to the Drawing Board/Spreadsheets:

Well, the big news is that I rented myself a tiny apartment that is located very near to the Money Dimple, but in an objectively safer area. I am 56 years old, and although I have often been financially independent of others and/or head of household of 3 after my divorce, I have never actually lived all by myself before. So far, I am loving it!!!

The apartment is $550/month, but even though it is tiny, it has an office-like room on the first floor, and tiny kitchen, bedroom, and bathroom on second floor, so I am designating the first floor as space for new manifestation of my book dealing/publishing micro-business, so after deductions, personal solo shelter space expense will be $425 plus gas/electric. My overall personal spending goal is to be in alignment with not spending more than International PPP fair share of at least do no harm global footprint = approximately $11,000/year+ $917/month currently according to my calculations. So, given that I am no longer in situation where I can trade my cooking skills for free groceries, I have reinstituted my $2/day plus what I can grow/forage/scavenge diet/grocery plan. Unfortunately, I must admit that I already blew $12 on a bottle of grapefruit flavored vodka to celebrate my total emancipation from the grouchy old man zone. From now on my boundary will be that no matter how inherently grouchy they are and would strongly like to preserve their right to be, if/when they desire the great pleasure of my company, they will have to at least pretend to more pleasant behavior. The problem is that maintaining this boundary will likely conflict with my goal of extreme frugality, because, for instance, they will do things like offer to bring over their equipment and cut down a dead tree on my property in the hopes that this offer of value will allow them the privilege of being grouchy within the scope of my company. I said "No.", but I did waver a bit.

Another idea or metric I am contemplating is based on something Jacob wrote elsewhere to the effect of "If you spend more than fair share global burn, you better justify with positive post-apocalypse infrastructure creation." It is my intention to simultaneously work towards at least 3 different purposes, all of which I believe to be in at least 50% alignment with "making things better post-apocalypse"; teaching math to poor children, permaculture project, re-publishing or curating collection of useful books in something like Burnt Earth Library in conjunction with my business. So, in trying to figure out my schedule and likely earnings going forward, it occurred to me that Best Current Wage for Doing Something Actually Helpful might be a useful concept or metric. For instance, I can net around $12/hour tutoring poor kids in math in setting where my time/effort is not being wasted on other requirements. If I rough hack what percentage of my book dealing profits/hour could be directly helpful, as opposed to just making money mailing limited print books on topics such as "Secrets of Elite Golfers" to the bored affluent, I think it would be similar. Obviously, there are many more activities/purposes that could be considered to be helpful than the ones in which I am interested/semi-competent, so individuals might have different Best Current Wage for Doing Something Actually Helpful, but there might also be a sort of global average. So, if you spend less than International PPP fair share (or your own preferred metric) and you earn the money you spend by Doing Something Actually Helpful, then it seems to me that you would be double in the green, or something like that. IOW, you can rest easy at night about what you are going to say to your great-grandchild when she asks you why you just let it happen, etc.

Anyways, $917/$12 = approximately 76 hours/month work for me in the double green zone, given that I want to at least leave my current level of financial assets untouched in my quasi-semi-dirtbag-style-ERE-retirement-which-will-actually-probably be-pretty-busy!!! I think 76 hours/month will still leave me enough time to lounge around and read at random. However, I also sometimes think that 1800 kcals/day should be adequate to the number of cookies I prefer to eat, and that has not yet proven to be accurate (sigh- almost certainly due in part to the fact that cookies are still quite affordable on $2/day food budget.)

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mountainFrugal
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by mountainFrugal »

Your $2 per day goal reminded me of the good recipes found in this cookbook which you may have already seen: https://books.leannebrown.com/good-and-cheap.pdf

Qazwer
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Qazwer »

If someone bought a used copy of ‘Secrets of Elite Golfers’ and took the time to read it, they would not create waste by buying 12 lesser newer golf books. They would find enjoyment. They potentially might be playing golf more which could be beneficial or worse for causing land use - sunk costs nature having been already been destroyed but at least not a parking lot but on the other hand it is not a new development but then think about the children who might not have a place to live etc etc etc
The fifth order effects of most things are hard to guess. You live your life and try to be helpful. Quantifying impact can be no more than estimates.
Come on, teaching kids math might lead to them living healthier and better lives. That could mean they can consume more. But I would only consider it a good regardless of the next level.
Maybe just don’t sell books on how to bribe EPA officials if you pollute rivers and call what you are doing a good.
Teaching kids, planting food creating gardens and bringing knowledge to others all seem like good things. I just think I am not willing to believe any calculus where they are not.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@mountainFrugal:

Thanks for the link, but this is an area in which I actually already have pretty solid expertise. I fed my family of 4 on approximately $40/week for many years and have personally survived on $1/day, but didn’t like it. So, $2/day is my fairly well established (neglecting inflation) reasonably happy minimum. Because I am a decent frugal cook, when I live with other people who aren’t my own kids or decent frugal cooks themselves, it usually has worked out that I get free groceries in exchange for cooking, making my needful food budget basically zero. However, I must admit that I have sometimes taken advantage of that leeway to indulge in non-needful food purchases. IOW, if/when I have been Lentil Baby to a Calorie King(Level 4-Millionaire next door frugal grouchy old man), the $40 total I spent on food any given month would likely be towards sushi or expensive coffee :o during junctures where I sought reprieve.

@Qazwer:

Since I had already been running micro-business dealing in used real goods for many years before I read “ERE”, it has never made complete sense to me to differentiate between frugal consumption, frugal production for home consumption, or frugal production within home or moderately expanded business space for general consumption. For instance, reusing parchment paper for baking vs reusing boxes for business shipping. Therefore, I’ve never been quite convinced of the moral neutrality of investing in anything that will turn a profit on the stock market to generate income. Why not do both to extent of your capabilities?

That said, I mostly agree with your note that simply choosing to deal in used goods might be “green” enough at the margin. When I was struggling to make enough income dealing in books after my ex went AWOL and my kids were still in school, I started doing retail arbitrage of variety new clearanced goods, and even considered going the Alibaba to Amazon route, but I couldn’t stomach being so directly responsible for permeating the market with plastic crap toys or household goods or arbitraging the labor of crew of Asian women in matching smocks on factory detail page, etc etc.

Now that I have luxury/options of no dependents, fairly lush for me (weak as hell for this forum :lol: )bankroll/savings, easily acquired quite flexible part-time socially beneficial W2 income source, SS early draw just around the corner, 1/3 acre and variety of shelters/storage spaces owned free and clear, etc. etc., I think that once I adjust to added expense due to my deep desire for solo living, I should be living pretty damn large for me on smidge over 10 grand per year. If/when I complete the renovation of Money Dimple to legal, safe occupation status, I will be living very large on even less!

Latest update would be that I did choose to have sex with my Iranian “ex” second “husband” in exchange for laundry facility use last night, but that was only because I had to justify my use of gas to get to his house with savings in another category (my new apartment lease strictly forbids air drying of laundry in apartment due to some horrific experience with former tenant) and his religion requires token gift to female in sexual contract. Also, he’s great in bed, and I was in the mood. I am pretty well determined to no longer engage in Lentil Baby exchange economics, but the lay of the land seems to keep rolling me right back into that briar patch EVEN though I currently resemble nerdier version of Mrs. Santa Claus, and my butt is still fissured, and I sometimes need to use my asthma inhaler after sex.

white belt
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by white belt »

What does a typical $2 a day meal plan look like?

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@ white belt:

My current meal plan probably would not suit your needs because pretty much opposite of Warrior Diet. Basically, I am roughing in 4 400 kcal (because random access to more kcals likely and I definitely want to stay under 2000 kcals/day) semi-vegetarian tasty to me meals inclusive of around 3 lbs. wet weight food/day. This week went to a large supermarket and focused on purchasing produce at less than $1/lb, protein at less than .50 per serving, and carbs in largest/cheapest form. As I shop I think about what I could cook with what I found at my price points and also picked up miscellaneous stock and spice items necessary such as soy sauce, garlic and cilantro.

YESTERDAY: $2.35 approximately
2 raisin bagels with sunflower butter
1/2 lb of red grapes
2 yellow corn tortillas
Black beans refried in olive oil with onion and lemon
Tomato, onion, cilantro, balsamic vinegar salsa
Mooched dinner off “ex”

TODAY: $2.10 approximately
Mooched breakfast off ex
Bagel with sunflower butter
1/2 lb grapes
Basmati rice
Tofu, frozen peas, onion, garlic stir fry

TOMORROW:$2.35 approximately
Leftover rice, banana, free small milk I scavenged
Catfish nugget, collard greens, onion, olive oil
Sweet potato (large)
Watermelon




So, I’m not quite on mark yet, but not trying very hard at all either. The fact that I don’t yet have functioning garden at new location or complete stock of staples/spices/cookware is also somewhat limiting my options. Easy fix to get back on mark would be baking something like applesauce muffins from scratch and making a pot of clearance meat and cabbage soup. Happening upon one free meal worth of food/day on average is about par for the course since I am social, often in settings like schools and other people’s gardens, inclined to forage, and generally opportunistic non-picky omnivore.

white belt
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by white belt »

@7WB5

Thanks for the details. My current diet is actually quite different from the "Warrior Diet" because I eat 4 evenly spaced meals throughout the day rather than anything resembling intermittent fasting. The biggest difference between my diet and your diet is I'm eating 160 grams of protein daily.

I lack the skill to reach $2 a day for meals in my current design. $4 might be in the range of possibilities. I have a spreadsheet that calculates the cost of protein per gram from different high-protein density sources. 1 lb of (raw) soybeans comes at a cost of $2 and provides 160 grams of protein (1.3 cents/gram of protein), but that's not really a diet that I would even attempt for a variety of reasons. Factory farmed eggs and whey protein powder are the only other sources that come in at less than 2 cents/gram (also ground meats that are ~$2 a lb). If we assume that I actually require 140 grams of protein due to fact that I will get remaining 20 grams from residual protein in various grains that I'm also consuming, then it might be possible to get under $4 with some deliberate effort (obviously carbs, fat, micronutrients, etc are also important but those are relatively cheap and easy to come by compared to protein).

I haven't fully explored exchanging other forms of capital for food. I don't find myself around free food very often and when I do it's not something that really appeals to my nutrition goals (pizza, donuts, etc). I have in the past bartered physical/sexual capital for free laundry services, so perhaps it might be possible to do the same for a free meal, although I've found that even in 2021 with extremely progressive females, many still expect the man to pay for drinks/meals. I could see a scenario where I exchange cooking skills for free ingredients since I'm currently living with roommates and at least one of them seems interested in my tempeh and other food experiments. I definitely need to practice using other forms of capital since it isn't something that comes all that naturally for me. It doesn't help that some of my friends/family have caught on that I actually make over 6 figures now so there is an expectation I should just pay more for everything.

Scavenging in the form of hunting should fit in well to my system, which would allow me to get access to animal protein in the 1-2 cents/gram range (my game plan is to go deer hunting this fall with some friends I make at my new job). Fishing could also work but is a little more hassle due to polluted waters around here. I haven't attempted dumpster diving, although maybe I should give it a shot given that I'm living in relatively affluent area now.

Of course some of this is moot because I find myself spending much more than that on restaurants in attempt to jump start social connections in new location.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Well, the Catch-22 is that if you met a female theoretically frugal enough to support your FI goals by picking up the dinner bill, she would likely also be frugal enough to know that the average single American man spends over $250/month on dating or her own experience will have allowed her to estimate this, just like knowing what is a good price on chicken thighs. So, basically you would be expecting her to do something economically stupid, UNLESS it was her reasonable expectation that your relationship might develop into some form of economic partnership.

OTOH, in situations where men are relatively scarce, such as used to be very much the case with people over 60, then many women will exhibit behavior like bringing over casseroles to recently widowered men. IOW, it’s a market problem more than a gender role problem, except to the extent that women are far less likely to “pay” for relatively more attractive sexual partners. Women are more likely to want to stay in the range of “good match.” For instance, objectively I think that 1986 Jimmy Smits is more attractive than 69 year old Sean Connery, but I would much prefer the latter. But it’s entirely possible that some younger generation ExTJ type females have overcome this socialized psychological barrier. For instance, I read Chelsea Handler’s sexual memoir and it seemed like she maybe had, but alcohol might have helped the process.

white belt
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:01 pm
Well, the Catch-22 is that if you met a female theoretically frugal enough to support your FI goals by picking up the dinner bill, she would likely also be frugal enough to know that the average single American man spends over $250/month on dating or her own experience will have allowed her to estimate this, just like knowing what is a good price on chicken thighs. So, basically you would be expecting her to do something economically stupid, UNLESS it was her reasonable expectation that your relationship might develop into some form of economic partnership.

OTOH, in situations where men are relatively scarce, such as used to be very much the case with people over 60, then many women will exhibit behavior like bringing over casseroles to recently widowered men. IOW, it’s a market problem more than a gender role problem, except to the extent that women are far less likely to “pay” for relatively more attractive sexual partners. Women are more likely to want to stay in the range of “good match.” For instance, objectively I think that 1986 Jimmy Smits is more attractive than 69 year old Sean Connery, but I would much prefer the latter. But it’s entirely possible that some younger generation ExTJ type females have overcome this socialized psychological barrier. For instance, I read Chelsea Handler’s sexual memoir and it seemed like she maybe had, but alcohol might have helped the process.
Good points. My dating spending can skew higher depending on the demographic I'm going for and location. In my experience, once I've found a partner the ongoing costs can be minimized to virtually zero, however there is always a startup cost for finding a new partner and if I just stick with current partners eventually I will be out of luck once one of us moves on. I would say it isn't always the case that women realize how much the average man spends on dating, but perhaps that's because my age demographic is much younger than yours (e.g. I know a lot of women who are surprised to find out dating apps for men are far less effective than for women) and is more comfortable with splitting the tab.

Again in my experience, the only scenario where I can get a woman to pay for things is if I date "down" in the sense I'm dating a woman who is less desirable than me on the market. This can actually work fine if the dating market is favorable to men, since I may rate as a 8 in a market with more women than men, but as a 6 in other situations. Of course it can also be the case that certain traits are highly desirable on the market and hard to come by in combination (e.g. dominant in bed, drama-free, muscular, intelligent, polite, etc). It's generally much easier for me to keep partners around than to find new ones. With the percentage of young women that currently identify as LGBTQ in the USA, perhaps young men will be doomed to inopportune dating markets over the long term (so far things remain favorable for the college educated man on the whole due to more women with college degrees than men and mass incarceration of young men in certain socioeconomic classes).

I have met a few ExTJ type females in my day, but it seemed that they generally worked in high-powered career fields as "boss lady" so that in their dating life they much preferred to settle in to their "feminine" energy and allow someone else to take charge. In fact it seems I appealed to them because I was not threatened/intimidated by their slightly aggressive demeanor and prestigious job title/income. Of course there is also the more recent trend of cougars who are often successful middle aged women who want a young partner after recent divorce.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Gotcha. I guess I rarely find myself in a down-dating situation, because I genuinely prefer older and more rugged looking men and I also don’t discriminate based on ethnicity (unlike a shocking number of my generational female peers.) The funny thing is that this actually gives me an odd advantage in dating the guys my mall fashion shopping female peers do find most desirable, because I’m like “Meh.Boring.”

Anyways, since you identify as Dominant, one thing I thought of that you might try to get free food would be to demand to be fed in between rounds of the action at her place. Like if she gets up to go to the bathroom, grab her back and say something growly like “Where do you think you are going? I’m not done with you yet.” then something like “Okay, I’ll give you a break, woman, but bring me back a sandwich.” Something like that, but maybe a bit smoother.

white belt
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
Gotcha. I guess I rarely find myself in a down-dating situation, because I genuinely prefer older and more rugged looking men and I also don’t discriminate based on ethnicity (unlike a shocking number of my generational female peers.) The funny thing is that this actually gives me an odd advantage in dating the guys my mall fashion shopping female peers do find most desirable, because I’m like “Meh.Boring.”

Anyways, since you identify as Dominant, one thing I thought of that you might try to get free food would be to demand to be fed in between rounds of the action at her place. Like if she gets up to go to the bathroom, grab her back and say something growly like “Where do you think you are going? I’m not done with you yet.” then something like “Okay, I’ll give you a break, woman, but bring me back a sandwich.” Something like that, but maybe a bit smoother.
Like you said earlier, I think it's just market dynamics. You as non-monogamous female are way more in demand for your age bracket (or really any age bracket). I suspect if I was only looking for serious monogamous relationship then I would also have my pick of very attractive women without ever having to down-date.

I'm not so sure me telling a woman under age 30 to make me a sandwich will elicit the response you are expecting, but I understand what you are getting at.

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