7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

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7Wannabe5
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7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I am all set to close in a few days on the purchase and then take immediate possession of my new tiny decrepit property, AKA The Money Dimple :D !

From my last journal, Take 6:
So, first order of business hiking forward again (on path towards my ideal lifestyle) from prior to ERE junction would be getting back in better physical shape, second order of business will likely be getting well laid again, third order of business might be starting something like a new business/finishing my novel/similar, fourth order of business will be rebooting a permaculture “cottage” project in alignment with further reducing spending/burning to 1 Jacob, fifth order of business will be integration of my extended family with other projects, sixth order of business would be adding more fun tinkering/invention and zany arts and crafts into the mix. THEREFORE, straightforward effort to increase size of my nest egg would only be 7th order of business at best. Actually, simply learning more about finance and the markets would likely trump this too, and highly likely other stuff will come up, so probably 10th order concern is more like it.
I was trying to spend the time until I get vaccinated for Covid focusing on 1, 3, and 6, but for a variety of reasons, more or less rational, I felt compelled to move on 4. Thus, the purchase of The Money Dimple. The renovation of this property- tiny house. garage, shed and large garden- is going to be a huge generalist project, so the sub-path 3 and 6 projects I have already started (my novel, copyright mining business, garden-robot build) will have to be back-seated for a while. Hopefully, I will still be able to make some progress on the (1) health/fitness front. Unfortunately, I know from previous experience that renovation/construction type activities tend to put me in a sort of oblivious stevedore mode where I semi-consciously behave as though I deserve to eat giant plates of food after hauling heavy stuff around in the snow all day or endlessly scraping paint in 90 degree weather. Maybe I'll attempt intermittent fasting to curtail this likelihood.

On other thread, Alphaville suggested that I might want to follow the strategy followed by a near bankrupt Brazilian railroad(ALL) as described by the Heath brothers in "Switch" for renovation of this property. I found the rules related to this strategy in this article:
Rule 1: Money would be invested only in projects that would allow ALL to earn more revenue in the short term.

Rule 2: The best solution to any problem was the one that would cost the least money up front — even if it ended up costing more in the long term, and even if it was a lower-quality solution.

Rule 3: Options that would fix a problem quickly were preferred to slower options that would provide superior long-term fixes.

Rule 4: Reusing or recycling existing materials was better than acquiring new materials.
https://www.strategy-business.com/artic ... ?gko=decab

Obviously, renovating a property in which I hope to live myself is not exactly like revitalizing a bankrupt railroad, but it is a good model in the sense that I absolutely do not want my cash flow into this project to exceed the level of Dimple towards the level of Pit.

Some thoughts:

Rule 1: I did choose to purchase city rather than rural property in order to increase my semi-ERE employment opportunities. For instance, once I am vaccinated, I will easily be able to substitute teach 3 days in order to pay an electrician/carpenter/plumber for 1/2 day of work if/when needful due to fail of my DIY skill set and/or local code issues.

Rule 2 and Rule 3: The first big problem is Achieve Ability to Live in Decrepit Tiny House Legally and/or Absent Huge Hassle. I would like to solve this problem as cheaply and quickly as possible before upgrading to Superior Quality solution(s.) I am willing/able to continue to mooch bed space and shower access off of The Cowboy and/or family members, but they will be at pretty long commute distance. I am also willing/able to rent motel room or other temporary accommodations closer to the project or even purchase a camper to park on the property if the city code will allow with intention to re-sell. Obviously, camping out in the decrepit house as I fix it up would be cheapest/fastest fix, but might not be "legal" and would definitely require purchase of indoor safe propane heater at this time of year. I can't get any of the utilities (water, electric, natural gas) turned back on again without city inspection of relevant equipment, and I STRONGLY believe that it would be in my best interest to fix major carpentry issues such as missing window sashes and gaping holes in siding prior to having equipment inspections. Theoretically, carpentry repairs, as opposed to renovations, should not require me to pull a permit first. Highly likely that this is going to have to be an iterative process. It has not been my experience that inspectors are of the type likely to be easily charmed towards expense reduction.

Rule 4: Very much in alignment with permaculture principles. I always try to do this.


Anyways, the other thought I had based on conversation on other thread combined with my recent reading of Retrosuburbia is that maybe I will divide my tiny property into quadrants loosely based on different future scenarios. For instance, the tiny house could be Intelligent Green Tech Electric renovation, the tiny two room Shed and Garden zone could be Low Tech Sufficient, and the tiny Garage/Barn could be Scavenger Society zone. Beyond the point of achieving ability to live on the property (not have to pay/mooch shelter elsewhere), I am not very concerned with such options as "resale value" or "rendering legal for rental."

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

so rules 2 + 3 are "cheap and fast" in the project triangle.

what are the most pressing issues to get approval for electric hookup?

im assuming electricity as the enabler of the other 2 utilities, plus gives you easier access to power tools than running a genny.

normally/survival i'd say water comes first, but frozen pipes are a big problem and this is winter. hence: electric.

eta: if you just need electricity for cell phones and led lights you could rig that without actual utility hookup. i think the soylent guy wrote about that? i'll try to find.

eta2: here you go: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/08 ... g-current/ (a bit of that is something only a tech bro can afford, like custom clothes? and he lives in l.a. -- but some other things could be implemented by the masses like his low power entertainment)

maybe that's all you need to camp indoors? is the house structurally sound? how can you get heat that won't asphyxiate you if no utilities hooked up yet?

eta3: is this stuff really "indoor safe"?
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F23200 ... 002G51BZU/
if true, it's cheaper than 1 non-fleabag motel night...

what kind of windows u got?
Last edited by Alphaville on Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ego
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Ego »

Be sure to insist on current water, gas and electric meter readings at closing, even if the service has been turned off. If the meters have been stolen insist on documentation from the utility stating that they are stolen and you are not responsible for any charges. It is a common scam to refuse access to the utility for long periods and then make the meter disappear just before closing. Read up on the special circumstances regarding utilities and vacant properties at closing.

tsch
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by tsch »

How exciting! Will be reading along with interest. In my opinion, making this sort of thing easy to do should be a priority of government, but I know it's an uphill battle to do anything but throw (borrowed) money at things like this. I admire you for taking it on, and seems like you are getting some soild advice here, which is also very cool.

horsewoman
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by horsewoman »

We renovated our farm according to this rules (unknowingly), since we had little money, and very few skills when it comes to "decent" renovation. You need to have the right mindset to live with cheap+fast solutions, but I see no problems here :)
I'm looking forward to reading along with your new adventure.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Alphaville:

I already have some off-grid electrical facilities which I used at my camper parked on my vacant lots and at The Cowboy's northern acreage shed. I have portable solar panels, small battery bank, led lighting, small fan. Actually, I don't even need the solar panels, because I will have my Smart car available for charging also. I also have a few cordless tools with battery packs. I have camped out with a Mr. Buddy Indoor Safe Propane Heater before. The house is old and drafty, the windows are mostly old wooden or missing, and I will definitely pop for a couple battery operated fire and carbon monoxide alarms right away, so very low risk. The problem will be it's just too damn cold for one little heater like that to be adequate. I spent a couple nights in an A-Liner camper parked in a driveway in Illinois with temperatures this low, but we had an electric heater plugged in with an extension cord to the garage. Unfortunately, I sold my camping cot because too bulky for my Smart car, but easy enough to acquire a new one.

My first priority before attempting to get the electricity turned back on will be making sure the structure is reasonably secured from vandals and varmints and general clean-up. For instance, there is a gaping hole in the exterior siding near the staircase (danger, danger!) to the attic "room."
Ego wrote:Be sure to insist on current water, gas and electric meter readings at closing, even if the service has been turned off. If the meters have been stolen insist on documentation from the utility stating that they are stolen and you are not responsible for any charges. It is a common scam to refuse access to the utility for long periods and then make the meter disappear just before closing. Read up on the special circumstances regarding utilities and vacant properties at closing.
This will be a standard real estate deal with marketable title, so even though I purchased for "cash, as is" , I was given state required disclosures. The property has been vacant for almost 3 years, so the city took the water meter. The gas and electric is metered outside and it looks okay. I checked the property tax and water utility records and they're all up to date. OTOH, I proceed with full expectation of unpleasant surprises based on purchase price of $6757 inclusive of closing costs. I paid more for my car.

@tsch@horsewoman:

Thanks! Wish me luck :lol:

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:27 pm
I already have some off-grid electrical facilities which I used at my camper parked on my vacant lots
fantastic! that's a "use what you have" thing.

i wouldn't sleep there with roaches and rats, but once you've sealed and fumigated looks like you could camp inside.

so i guess i'd go one step pre-occupancy, and ask if it's possible to bring your camper there? it should be possible if it's your property...

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I doubt there will be many roaches or rats, because no people or people food. Bats and chipmunks, definite possibility.

I no longer own that camper. I would have to buy a new/used one. It doesn’t make much sense as an option since I don’t intend to do a fast, full gut out of the house. I may need to borrow a dog.

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Dream of Freedom
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Dream of Freedom »

You could ask the city if you can stay there. If you can great. If you can't at least you know.

:twisted: Or you could just move in. If they don't like it you will probably just get a warning. Even if you got fined it would be less than weeks at a hotel.

You could set up a tent. Placed outside you might avoid trouble with the city. Placed inside you could limit the space you need to heat.

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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:47 pm
Bats and chipmunks

I no longer own that camper. I would have to buy a new/used one. It doesn’t make much sense as an option since I don’t intend to do a fast, full gut out of the house. I may need to borrow a dog.
fuck bats. they're deadlier than rats these days. bleach everything :lol:

and chipmunks carry worms.

but also, do you guys get hantavirus?i think probsbly not, but that also kills by cytokine storm.

and some spiders that like quiet can be nasty. black spider or brown recluse... not sure what you guys get up there.

i'd clean like it's a crime scene. not joking here. barebones yes, filth no.

especially with your asthma.
Dream of Freedom wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:00 pm
:twisted: Or you could just move in. If they don't like it you will probably just get a warning. Even if you got fined it would be less than weeks at a hotel.

You could set up a tent. Placed outside you might avoid trouble with the city. Placed inside you could limit the space you need to heat.
i like this idea provided no "involuntary animal companions" are still hanging there and the place has been fumigated.

and here is where the $40 roll of reflective insulation can come super-handy ;)

(ok, maybe prices have increased with inflation since way back when)

i've used it to block drafty or sunny windows according to the season, to create enclosures, to make my house look like andy warhol's factory, to shut out nosy people, to block outside light, to multiply radiant heat effect, etc.

---

i should add, i think acquiring a propane heater night not be a bad idea because it could be used in the outbuildings and other situations. so it's not a one-off. i'd avoid the 1lb cans that empty too quickly and get a 20lb tank with a regulator instead. works also with a camping stove. i'd get 2 tanks actuall so one works while the other one gets refilled.

eta: this pricier heater model claims to be suitable for up to 450sqft: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr-Heater-MH ... /408902981
Last edited by Alphaville on Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sky
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by sky »

Very cool, good luck! I always wanted to do the urban pioneer thing.

It is a cold time to start now, but soon you could put a tent up inside a room and make that your temporary sawdust free zone (insect free zone, mouse free zone). An insulated quilt, thick sleeping pad and insulated clothes are a better solution than heat, until you can seal up the house.

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

found a better propane heater
20k btu/700sqft:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mr-Heater-2 ... /304927740 $178+tax <--eta: fixed link
2 propane tanks:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Worthington ... /202034840 $70+tax
regulator/adapter $17 plus tax (there are others)
coleman camping stove + 1lb refillable bottle, etc ... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Clas ... ner/895629

so basically~ $300 plus your solar electric solves your upfront energy needs. likely easy to borrow some of this gear or you already own some therefore amount is ceiling.

a water cube solves water, provided sewer works https://www.walmart.com/ip/Reliance-Pro ... /447217787
(or you can drain from utility sink into bucket)

add a brita pitcher for cooking/drinking

(rain collector barrel can solve toilet flush given adequate precipitation)

skin in the game(sorta): i've actually done all of this in my cabin except for the propane heater because i didnt know these "indoor safe" versions existed. i had wood stove with was a pita to keep fed.

--

eta: natural gas is cheaper, but propane packs more energy, and has a lower startup/setup cost:

https://www.santaenergy.com/blog/propan ... tural-gas/
https://www.mlive.com/home_improvement/ ... l_gas.html
https://www.shipleyenergy.com/resources ... -your-home

looks like propane is cheap and fast :lol:

(of course there's still the issue of hot showers to be solved... heat up on large kettle and fill up shower bag? shower at the y? post-plague of course...)

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Congratulations! I'm really happy and excited for you. A little jealous too since I like a good project. Looking forward to hearing more about your new house.

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

ok last post of the day i promise :lol:

first, a caveat: purportedly being an intp person, my brain is not a fixed judgment thing but more like a kaleidoscope that you shake some and get a new picture.

so, while looking at propane heaters i found cheap natural gas heaters. not furnaces, not boilers, just radiant heaters. brain shaken! eg see:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo-30 ... /206556628

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo-30 ... /303388497

and cheap too!

so im thinking, if you can get gas hooked up without electricity (i.e inspector deems battery alarms kosher), this is cheap fast delivery of power on demand. no need to buy propane tanks and haul them all over for refill. (i went from propane to electric in my cabin and never looked back because i like my energy delivered, not retrieved)

now i was looking around the web a little and it looks like it's possible and legal to live without electric in the city. and it looks like actually *sewage* might be the sine qua non utility.

eg (different state) https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-i ... 65404.html

so if you can get gas + sewage.... you might be in business.

you might wanna call the city for local ordinances but yeah...

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/living-o ... -legal/#mi

maybe even not sewage required per that website, but i would not recommend outhouse. oooof!

so anyway with natural gas "fireplace" you could later hook up electric hydronic baseboards in your own sweet time. give you the option of basic temp & cozy fire.

anyway, your camping setup solves power for electronic devices, so with gas heater no rush to connect ac power (but eventually yes because fridge, etc--gas fridges are $$$).

ok lol i gtg worry about my worm bin setup now...

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Dream of Freedom:

Standard zoning code in my state only allows you to camp on your own property for 2 weeks per year. Otherwise, you must apply for a special permit. I did think about setting up a tent inside. My ex actually did that when we were dealing with a lot of bats in our big old house. Given the semi-sketchy nature of the neighborhood, I am thinking that maybe I might be cut some slack on the basis of "just guarding my tools/building materials." The semi-sketch status of the neighborhood is also one of the reasons I don't want to be stealth. I want the house to look like it is occupied when I am in it. I might even borrow one of my sister's dogs to aid in making that clear.

@sky:

True. I'm actually pretty used to dealing with cold conditions because I used to store my inventory in unheated spaces, but single digits is pushing it. I made a note to pick up some lock de-icer and hot hands packets in case I have any trouble dealing with door mechanisms etc. Probably I'll set up the one small bedroom as my campsite, because almost everything I'll be working on will be in the more open kitchen/living room/dining room area. The house has a lot of windows and doors (or holes where they previously existed) for being so tiny, I think I counted 17, so it's going to take a minute to get it reasonably well sealed. I will just commute from The Cowboys' apartment and/or rent a motel room until this cold snap breaks. It's pretty easy to get a motel room for $300/week these days, so a couple weeks and/or every few days to get a shower and other facilities such as water to fill jugs etc. won't break the bank.

@GdP:

Thanks! I believe your spot of jealousy will fade after I get around to posting pictures :lol: :o

@Alphaville:

I am within city limits, so highly doubtful I can get away with not hooking up to city septic system. That's why it's hanging out there as my largest looming possible expense if it isn't functional. However, as you noted, I don't believe that I am strictly required to turn on other utilities, so long as I am just owner occupying, as opposed to being a registered landlord.

I did consider possibility of natural gas heater as opposed to forced air furnace. I need to inspect the current ductwork, or lack thereof, better to determine trade off benefit. I can borrow The Cowboy's propane heater, hose and tank if needful, but I am going to try to get the electric turned on ASAP, and I greatly prefer electric space heaters over propane space heaters as medium/short term solution. The electrical system and the roof are basically the only two things that were disclosed as "good" rather than "unknown" in purchase agreement, so it will hopefully pass city inspection. I'm more worried about what all else the inspector might notice while checking out the electric, such as clearly illegal and dangerous staircase to attic "room" or slumping condition of very tiny rear addition which previously housed the gas furnace (dozen other things I could list off top of my head.)

The fact that you suggested an 8 gallon cube of water with implication that I might be able to lift it makes clear the limitations of internet only advice :lol: Obviously, if the sewer line is functional, I can just put a standard toilet in place on top of the slab and flush with a bucket. Buying or renting a snake is going to be one of my first order tasks. Another thought I had was that maybe I will just use the slab foundation as the base for my bathroom shower and just edge it out.

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Alphaville
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:24 am
The electrical system and the roof are basically the only two things that were disclosed as "good" rather than "unknown" in purchase agreement, so it will hopefully pass city inspection. [...]

The fact that you suggested an 8 gallon cube of water with implication that I might be able to lift it makes clear the limitations of internet only advice :lol:

haha, no, i know the cube is heavy (weight is partly why i recommend against firewood btw), but i figured you could sort out a partial fill on your own rather than me add further disquisition :mrgreen:

if electric is cheap enough and ready to roll then yeah, go for it! no explosions, no monoxide, no gas fitter labor.

...and you could always, further down the road, shove a gas heater into the fireplace hole as one of the customer pics shows for one of the products linked.... nice hack lol, and no firewood. plus it gives you a hedge against powerouts (requires no electric).

Riggerjack
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Riggerjack »

Congrats!

DW and I did something similar. Foreclosed home squatted in and stripped of exposed copper.

First thing we did was introduce ourselves to the neighbors. Open up the house, hang a flag off the porch, and otherwise make clear that ownership had changed.

Then we tried to pressurize the water (we just turned the water main valve back on. And eventually got busted, got it turned off and a nasty letter from the city. So we then paid to have water turned on. No penalty.) This allowed us to find the cut pipes and repair before any problems came from the city.

Not the officially approved path, but it worked. While the power is off, we hot wired a generator into the panel, to find the nonworking electrical, and trace it back to the section of wiring that had been "scavenged", and repair.

City sewer works by gravity. The city can't turn off gravity, so your sewer will work unless clogged. Test by putting a hose in a drain pipe, failure should be obvious, if present.

I would focus on exterior holes, then look at systems for failure, fix deficiencies, and when any inspector comes on site, have things as close to buttoned up as you can get. You are trying to avoid being hit with further compliance requirements. Know the triggers for more compliance.

If walls are open (no plaster or sheetrock covering interior walls) everything exposed needs to be up to code to close the wall. If estimated costs to repair (based on planning dept formulas, not real costs) exceed a threshold, the full house can be required to be brought up to code.

This is pretty much the death of your project. So fix and close as much as possible, before any inspector sees anything. Inspectors certify compliance, nothing else. Know the rules before asking if you are complying with them.

City code is available online. The history of this house is available from the auditor, assessor, and planning depts. Get each, so you know what is known from the start.

And post pics, when you get a chance!

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:24 am
I believe your spot of jealousy will fade after I get around to posting pictures :lol: :o
Don't post pics! Everyone who posts pics on here eventually freaks out, nukes all their posts, and never comes back! :lol:

sky
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by sky »

I am really curious about which neighborhood you chose, but in the interest of your personal security, I suggest you don't give out your location.

How big is your lot? I expect it will become an amazing garden.

7Wannabe5
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Re: 7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Riggerjack:

All the city and county office information is on centralized database so I was able to look at just about everything including cute photograph of how the house looked in the 1970s . Nothing outstanding that I can see except for some property taxes which will be paid off by seller at closing.

I helped my "ex" with inspections on his rental properties in a very picky city, so I know of what you speak. However, I am pretty determined to carry through this project on my own eccentric experimental/hobby-scape terms (as opposed to anything resembling rational real estate investor terms.) If I have to re-wire the whole damn place myself that's what I am going to do. IOW, my money will be grubbed away pretty tight, but my time will be invested as though otherwise worthless in semi-infinite DIY regression. I will read code, file appeals, request extensions, etc. etc. etc. I may even resort to shopping online dating sites for aging yet still licensed contractors. One way or another this project will get done.

@GdP:

No worries. If anybody bothers to stalk me to my new location, I will hand them a shovel, hammer, paintbrush.

@sky:

Yeah, I won't reveal my exact new location, but the way I babble it will probably become easy to guess eventually. The lot is on a corner and is .28 acres not including the curb strips. Too many mature trees, but otherwise a good garden site.

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