7Wannabe5- Take 7- The Money Dimple

[sky]

How do you cook and eat barley? Do you eat cracked grains of emmer and spelt?

[white belt]

I’m just going to have overall difficulty getting my eating on track on my current two nights in hotel/two nights back at apartment functioning. It doesn’t make sense to make the intervals any longer because I need access to washing machine and I’m barely good for even three days in a row of manual labor.

Sounds like your best bet would be to batch cook all your meals while at the apartment and then store in hotel mini fridge or a cooler. I have literally flown with tupperware containers of food in cooler bag in my checked baggage when traveling because it was less stress than trying to deal with figuring out where I can get food to meet my nutritional needs during a work trip.

I actually think diet apps and building strength/endurance are quite compatible in your situation, as long as you are able to adjust for activity level in the app. Of course your days spent working at the house all day are likely burning way more calories than your days spent at the apartment, so it’s understandable you would eat more calories on those days.

Nutrition is a giant rabbit hole with Wheaton levels like anything else, but I think tracking your food intake like you are doing is an important first step. I’m of course on the extreme end because I track macronutrients and weigh all of my food, but I also have very specific goals.

As you get a feel for your food consumption and energy levels, then you can start tweaking things. Trying to get in a caloric deficit is a more advanced thing so I think it’s totally fine to get comfortable tracking foods first while just eating your normal diet.

Remember when losing weight that caloric deficits are always temporary, which means after a few weeks to a few months it will be appropriate to move into a maintenance phase (ideally until your food cravings return to normal and your body feels normal again) to readjust your body to a new homeostasis.

[Alphaville]

How do you cook and eat barley? Do you eat cracked grains of emmer and spelt?

me i just pressure cook the berries with water then top/season according to mealtime. kinda like one would eat rice, but higher protein and much lower glycemic index, particularly the hulled version. pearl barley is different and a bit higher.

there is this boring repetitious idea of barley "soup" recipes, which annoy me to no end because a) i'm not a soup eater, and b) it stereotypes an important food staple that has innumerable uses from bread to beer.

btw it's my vague recollection than barley and lentils grow in the same fields which is why one sometimes finds random barley grains mixed with the lentils. whether this is true or i think they make a brilliant low glycemic combo.

eta: see: https://defeatdiabetes.org/resources/he ... ns/barley/

[white belt]

@Alphaville

Low glycemic is great to maintain alertness after a meal if you’re a sedentary individual or during times of minimal activity, but just remember that during strenuous prolonged activity you might want some high glycemic carbs to give you energy. We’re getting into the realm of general population vs intense exercise person advice but I’m not sure if 7WB5’s activity level during rehab days qualifies as strenuous activity (based on the posts/pictures and her fitness level, I think it does)

[Alphaville]

@Alphaville

Low glycemic is great to maintain alertness after a meal if you’re a sedentary individual or during times of minimal activity, but just remember that during strenuous prolonged activity you might want some high glycemic carbs to give you energy. We’re getting into the realm of general population vs intense exercise person advice but I’m not sure if 7WB5’s activity level during rehab days qualifies as strenuous activity (based on the posts/pictures and her fitness level, I think it does)

ok but glycemic index is not glycemic load*

my experience with a day of field labor is not about a short burst of energy, an hour or two hours, but about going and going and going all day. so a big bowl of barley has kept me going through long labor days like nothing else.


*[eta: plus there is the total amount of sugars and starches, load is a multiplicaton product]

in other words, with barley a large amount of carbs gets delivered slow and steady, with no hunger or crashes from high index rollercoaster. barley is a mighty endurance fuel.

rest days more protein for rebuild?

eta: check out the ace nutrition: https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrition-facts/170283/wt1

[7Wannabe5]

@white belt@Alphaville:

I think you guys need to take the discussion down a couple Wheaton levels if you want to get through to me. It’s not that I don’t comprehend or lack familiarity with concepts such as glycemic index; more like I don’t care.

According to my diet app, the four Fs that apply to eating style are Fuel, Fun, Fog, and Fury. You guys are clearly talking from the perspective of Fuel, whereas I function in the realms of Fun and Fog.

One of my likely problems, as seen from perspective of Fuel eater, is that I have almost zero fitness for the sake of fitness motivation. For example, I don’t care how much I can bench press; I do care about whether I can move 4x8 plywood for my interesting project. I don’t care about my body fat percentage; I do care about the probability of finding a lover who can still throw me up on a countertop. I don’t care about my aerobic capacity; I do care about being able to climb high enough to see rare alpine flower. Etc.

OTOH, by analogy, I am interested in frugality for the sake of frugality, but not in the sense of caring much about piling up excess capacity. More like as exercise in creativity. Fitness doesn’t seem like a creative realm to me. For instance, figuring out how I can move 4x8 plywood making use of simple machines I hack together seems more creative/fun than doing x reps of activity y for z days until I achieve the muscular capacity, etc. IOW, it’s sooooo boring. ENTP hates anything routine. Sometimes I can motivate myself a little bit by trying to care about fashion, but it’s like dressing the same Barbie doll that is me, so that gets boring too.

[Alphaville]

i'm the same way, my original point was just that trying to lose weight at the same time as trying to build strength and endurance is a bit at odds. "and apple and a yogurt" moves little plywood and leads to... wtf is "fog"? and fatigue and stress foods.

undereating causes overeating.

so, to move plywood all day, eat "slow carbs" like barley, steel cut oats, lentils, etc. they can be fun if cooked/seasoned right, does not need to be complicated. e.g, a bowl of oats with butter and fried eggs for breakfast? mmmmm.... a bowl of barley and beans and greens for lunch? hubba hubba.

the fun comes from the sides and condiments and spices. soy sauces, hot sauces, oils, vinegars, ferments, cinnamon, cardamom, etc.

anyway i also said "a cook a big pot" because i assumed you to be more preoccupied with your construction project than with designing a meal plan or preparing complicated dishes. so a big pot lets you eat all day as you need. eg steel cut oats with nuts and oranges or steel cut oats with lentils and spinach or steel cut oats with pb and cocoa. granted, one grain all day can get a little monotonous but you can change grain each day.

i like to make "preparations" that can be combined with each other. e.g a lentil paté can be eaten with salad or a flatbread or a glass of wine or all 3. granola i can have with whey or with yogurt or with berries or by itself. plain black beans go in a burrito or with sweet potato or with pasta or spinach. assembly varies with the day.

but again refried beans and corn tortillas from the corner store will also keep you powered up and entertained. i'd have posole too if they sell.

if you want to be tossable in the sack eat the good stuff at will and just avoid cookies, sodas, sugars, refined starches, excess/bad fats, etc, and gradually increase your work rate. you'll lose fat, build muscle, and increase your kamasutra potential.

[7Wannabe5]

@Alphaville:

Please bear in mind that I am 56 and I usually date men who are 7 to 12 years older than me. I will have to pack nitroglycerin if I push them past two vowels and one consonant

Actually, since I am now committed to semi-retirement, coming up with a list of not so routine fun and functional activities to do for a couple hours per day shouldn’t be too difficult. Especially since I am getting vaccinated on Friday!! Yay, hooray!!! So, that will reopen opportunities for activities such as water aerobics or tap dancing class. The big problem will be cutting out the cookies etc. I just need to focus on friction it creates against other fun activities.

Let’s see what the app says my calorie budget equals if I commit to at least average of 2 hours per day Construction/Yard Work or Tap Dancing/Hike with New Dog ( I am thinking Boxer, because so cute.) Luckily, I am tall and large boned, so that gives me a bit more leeway too. Looks like 1600 + 500 + 400 = 2500 kcals/day. That seems too high. I think I would gain weight at that level even if I did an hour of moderate tap dancing and an hour of moderate yard work or varied equivalents. The app makes me weigh myself every day, so I will see if it works.

[white belt]

@7WB5

I get what you are saying and we definitely occupy opposite ends of the personality spectrum in terms of routine. However, whether you are trying to gain strength to lift a piece of wood or lose fat to be lighter, the nutrition and training principles are the same as someone with traditional “fitness” goals.

I think you’re off to a good start with the calorie tracking app. With daily weigh-ins and tracking your food you should get a good idea of what caloric maintenance vs. deficit vs. surplus looks like for you. Expect to have to tweak calorie intake because there are so many variables (genetics, hormones, age, height, etc) that is it impossible to precisely predict daily expenditure with a simple app. You just I want something that gets you close enough and gives you trends you can track over time. Daily calorie intake is so individualized that I think the 2k typical adult daily intake actually does a huge disservice because people don’t factor in individual characteristics.

[Alphaville]

coming up with a list of not so routine fun and functional activities to do for a couple hours per day shouldn’t be too difficult. […]

oh, i thought your construction project was a highly engaged, all-day business that left you exhausted the next day

anyway i wouldn't sweat the calorie counting at the early stage when you're just trying to get your muscles fed and functional.

try starting your day with a cup of steamed barley and a cup of plain greek yogurt with black pepper and a spoon of olive oil*, and an orange, and then see how many cookies you crave afterwards

*extra bonus with a spoon of ground flax mixed instead of olive oil

[tsch]

Please bear in mind that I am 56 and I usually date men who are 7 to 12 years older than me. I will have to pack nitroglycerin if I push them past two vowels and one consonant

Oh well...if they die, they die

My experience is that fun with the right ones results in weight almost magically coming off. Until it goes bad, then it starts coming back on.

I do not recommend this system of weight management, despite the perks.

[Frita]

Well, menopausal weight loss and maintenance are a whole different ballgame than for fertile women and men of any age. (My spouse eats constantly and is trim. He also likes sweets and fruit and processed snacks. If I ate like him, I would be plus-sized.). Research supports that just tracking what one eats without dieting, just awareness, results in weight loss. I think eat person has to figure out what works best.

As an ENTP too, I get not wanting to eat the same stuff over and over. Until we had babies and we were so exhausted, leftovers were forbidden. Now I try to limit them to one additional meal at the most. I need variety except for daily coffee, thick rolled oats with bran, and plain yogurt (I am lactose intolerant so dairy calls to me. Fermentation seems to be gentler on my stomach.). I also like to try new microbrews and often eat a small dessert and coffee. Yeah, I would rebel against eating repetitively or eating gross food. All I am saying is to eat the way that works well for you.

[Alphaville]

All I am saying is to eat the way that works well for you.

i think the problem is the way she's eating is currently not working for her? she said:

Another much more trivial systems problem I have been puzzling over is how to convince myself that a light yogurt and an apple is a good lunch for a person who spends the day out in the cold throwing crap into a dumpster when there is very good Mexican take out just a short walk away?

and

I’m barely good for even three days in a row of manual labor.

hence the suggestions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

eta: i'm sticking to my slow-carb recommendation for her scenario

[Frita]

@Alphaville
Yes, I understand the current eating pattern isn’t working. Through logging and considering suggestions, one can see patterns and make adjustments. Liking to eat a variety of foods and marching to the beat of one’s own drummer make it tricky. It’s like a huge experiment to dial in what works and do it. (Knowing is not the same as doing.) Also, I suspect many diets fail because people are copying what really doesn’t work for them. Having lost a significant amount of weight three times (“freshman 50,” post-59 pound twin pregnancy, post-Tulsa lifestyle), two of which were post-menopausal, I understand the desperation to look good again. (This may be projection on my part.)

This is what I figured out:
1) Log daily food intake, especially for maintenance.
2) Weigh self daily.
3) Drink at least 80 ounces of water daily.
4) Stay active and aim for 15K to 20K steps daily.
5) Eat lots of vegetables.
6) Limit sugar and refined foods.
7) Get enough fiber and protein.
8) No foods are off-limits, just eat what I think is enough and then a little less.
9) More than one beer and Frita will not fell sparkly the next day. Take days off between beers for the same reason.
10) Choose not to participate in female body bashing.
11) Wear real pants, not just stretchy yoga pants.
12) Enjoy my body as it is. I am aging every day and may die before the day’s over.

[Alphaville]

@frita

i hear ya, all that makes good sense, but i'm also trying to say that "losing weight" should probably not be her prime directive at this critical juncture, when she's trying to build a home by hand rather than hire people.

in my opinion, achieving strength and endurance should take precedence here, so that she can perform the labor. ofc one can "prioritize" differently, but i think the observable priority is finishing that home sooner rather than later (this is the reason i'm deeply digressing into food in the home construction thread).

i believe she can easily get into the cutting phase* once she has built muscles, a bedroom, a bathroom, and a kitchen. like this 80+ year old

--

* eta:

this page begins thus:

Trying to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time is impossible. It just can’t be done. This is why most women who are trying to do both at the same time see no results and give up. You have to do gaining muscle and losing fat in phases.

opinions on this vary, and some people or systems claim they can defy this, but leangains and other discussions aside, this right now must be the muscle-gaining phase, asap, imo, due to housing pressures.

[7Wannabe5]

You just I want something that gets you close enough and gives you trends you can track over time.

Right. It's also important for me to force myself to have some minimal routine I maintain in terms of "checking in" because I am a "fog" eater. IOW, the sort of person who can mindlessly wander in and out of the kitchen fetching mugs of coffee and cookies while puzzling out something in a book on systems theory she is reading or working out how to hang rain chains in lieu of gutters on the house she is renovating. This is hard for me to overcome due to my tendency towards cyclothymia. It's extremely difficult for me to go off sugar all together due to my brain chemistry. In the past I have had some success with increasing my fish intake and limiting my sugar intake to pure candy but no pastries, thereby eliminating all the extra fat and carb calories but keeping the buzz. My entire extended family, inclusive of lifelong very slender women, is composed of females who are total sugar fiends but do not become diabetic. So, it's just how I have to roll. Probably I should start buying bags of those green apple caramel suckers that you can't bite into again. OTOH, food that it is easy for me to give up would be red meat. I'm also not huge fan of white potatoes or white bread. I only end up eating them when I am living with the ex-football player types I tend towards dating. If I was forced to pick one menu section to eat off of for the rest of my life, it would be the Seafood section at a Vietnamese restaurant. Just brainstorming here...

oh, i thought your construction project was a highly engaged, all-day business that left you exhausted the next day

anyway i wouldn't sweat the calorie counting at the early stage when you're just trying to get your muscles fed and functional.

try starting your day with a cup of steamed barley and a cup of plain greek yogurt with black pepper and a spoon of olive oil*, and an orange, and then see how many cookies you crave afterwards

I was planning a bit forward towards something like my ideal/maintenance semi-retirement lifestyle with my musings about tap dancing class, etc. As I noted above, I know from experience that complex carbohydrates do not keep me from craving sugar. In fact, although I really like steel cut oats with walnuts for breakfast, I crash much harder off of it than maybe just an egg with toast and jelly.

My experience is that fun with the right ones results in weight almost magically coming off. Until it goes bad, then it starts coming back on.

Yeah, unfortunately I also suffer from this syndrome. A good portion of the extra weight I am currently carrying is due to being stuck in a strictly limited fun relationship due to Covid and extreme cheapness. This was exacerbated by fact that we both like to cook/eat and his big guy maintenance calorie level would likely be 1000 calories/day more than mine. However, we are getting along much better now as only intermittent roomies. He is currently dieting a bit too, likely in anticipation of the fun of dating somebody other than me (I laugh because the feeling is mutual.)

@Frita:

Thanks for all the suggestions and support. Menopause is definitely going to complicate this attempt to take off the weight compared to prior attempts/successes. I have never had this much fat accumulating on my belly relative to my bum. Not to suggest that it isn't on my bum too. I am accepting of the bum fat, because it has been my experience that men who prefer women with some fat on their bums are the best in bed; more forthright with intentionality. However, a semi-troubling note would be that I am actually not feeling overall super concerned about my appearance. On some level I am okay with looking like an eccentric matronly person. I love sex and I think dating is kind of fun, but why oh why am I still having to do it again at 56? I'm biologically old enough to be a great-grand-mother, but I'm still wasting brain-space/life-energy on fretting about my figure and dumping color on my hair, etc. etc. I'm bored with it. I want to do more interesting things with myself. But I can't do more interesting things with myself if my health goes completely in the crapper, so I am kind of stuck with my usual/historical motivations or ...?

one can "prioritize" differently, but i think the observable priority is finishing that home sooner rather than later (this is the reason i'm deeply digressing into food in the home construction thread).

I've been reworking my priorities a bit. The main point of this whole house renovation is to provide me with a space where I can indulge myself in whimsical semi-retirement projects. Therefore, it isn't consistent to make the project toward the projects a race to the goal. I want to be able to enjoy the process. It won't kill me or my long-term budget to have to spend some money on interim housing in the meanwhile.

I should also note that because I am naturally the sort of "Big Polish Girl" who would make matching cake topper with somebody roughly built like Terry Bradshaw, it is likely the case that I am currently more suffering from too much fat than too little muscle. For instance, I can drag a solid core exterior door along the ground, I just can't pick it up. My limiting factor each day that I am functioning as trash hauler during this phase of the renovation is the desire to not wake up the next morning with my lower back totally locked up, rather than extreme exhaustion. So, I only haul/lift heavy stuff for a couple hours max. For instance, I tried to keep track for my diet app yesterday, and it took me 45 minutes to haul the potentially useful sorted stuff leaning against the walls from outside the garage back into the previously filthy debris filled and now cleaned out garage (Yay!.) Then I took down a couple junk trees and grape vine with loppers and a reciprocating saw for a little over an hour until I got a bunch of burrs/pickers down the back of my t-shirt and had to go back to the hotel room to nod off on Benadryl.

[Frita]

Shazam, that is real progress. I can see bare walls, ceiling, and walls with organized items to reuse.

Yeah, menopause is like running into a brick wall. Even without gaining weight, one’s body seems to want to reorganize with the cache of belly fat. Men have it so lucky (although they tend to get grouchy which sucks if we have to be around them much). Anyway I imagine that our ancestors didn’t give our middle-aged counterparts much to eat and/or were last in line at the family buffet.

The other day I was reading that in France women in their 40s and 50s are still considered sexually appealing to younger guys. (Is this true?!). In the US, not so much. There is a lot of pressure to look a certain way, young and thin with no wrinkles and no gray/white hair. I agree with your desire to focus more on being healthy.

[Alphaville]

As I noted above, I know from experience that complex carbohydrates do not keep me from craving sugar. In fact, although I really like steel cut oats with walnuts for breakfast, I crash much harder off of it than maybe just an egg with toast and jelly.

in my view that comparison is faulty. too many variables have changed. let me explain.

meal 1 is high carb, high fat, low protein. bound to make you sleepy in spite of all good intentions. because there is low protein there will be a tendency to have a bigger carb load (because the body's #1 appetite is for protein) and get you stuffed. besides, there's no mention of toppings, flavors, etc. maple syrup? lol--kill me now.

meal 2 has better protein with the egg, which intuitively will lead to less bread. plus 1 tsp jam might be only 3-4g sugar, so not a big glycemic load in spite of high index. likely a smaller meal than the above (unless doing a loaf or bread with a jar of jam), will not weigh you down or make you sleepy, which will help you get moving.

but for a real comparison... experiment maybe with the eggs over (a small quantity of) chewy oats? and an orange instead of jam? just do it for science.

protein for breakfast is key. it increases alertness, helps build muscle, satisfies hunger, etc.

I've been reworking my priorities a bit. The main point of this whole house renovation is to provide me with a space where I can indulge myself in whimsical semi-retirement projects. Therefore, it isn't consistent to make the project toward the projects a race to the goal. I want to be able to enjoy the process. It won't kill me or my long-term budget to have to spend some money on interim housing in the meanwhile.

aaaaaaaah! that there is a very big change.

at the beginning of the thread there was an urge to do things quickly and cheaply, and you were going to live there in the ice with emergency heaters, so i was still going with that premise.

so this is now just the garden you wanted, and your playground, and there's no rush. i see/hear ya. will recompute.

it is likely the case that I am currently more suffering from too much fat than too little muscle. For instance, I can drag a solid core exterior door along the ground, I just can't pick it up. My limiting factor each day that I am functioning as trash hauler during this phase of the renovation is the desire to not wake up the next morning with my lower back totally locked up, rather than extreme exhaustion. So, I only haul/lift heavy stuff for a couple hours max. For instance, I tried to keep track for my diet app yesterday, and it took me 45 minutes to haul the potentially useful sorted stuff leaning against the walls from outside the garage back into the previously filthy debris filled and now cleaned out garage (Yay!.) Then I took down a couple junk trees and grape vine with loppers and a reciprocating saw for a little over an hour until I got a bunch of burrs/pickers down the back of my t-shirt and had to go back to the hotel room to nod off on Benadryl.

hmmmmmm... you might want to get into lower carb / high protein then maybe?

here's a bit on that debate i was trying to avoid above

https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/lose-w ... the-other/

i avoided it so as not to overcomplicate, but maybe it's time for complication.

could you add whey, peanut butter, cottage cheese to the daily food doses, without changing the rest? as snacks even?

also maybe look at bodybuilding diets for endomorph body type. wheatonz!

anyway...

garage porn is the best porn. oh i want that lab so bad lol.

[theanimal]

It's been great following along on your progress. Wishing you the best with this project!

Also, have you ever tried intermittent fasting?

[7Wannabe5]

The other day I was reading that in France women in their 40s and 50s are still considered sexually appealing to younger guys. (Is this true?!). In the US, not so much. There is a lot of pressure to look a certain way, young and thin with no wrinkles and no gray/white hair. I agree with your desire to focus more on being healthy.

It’s easy to find younger men who want to have sex with older women. I hooked up with late 20s guy when I was early 50s, but I felt like a cradle snatcher even though I was already a matron with two kids when I was his age. More difficult to find a middle-aged man who would want exclusive relationship with even older woman, but since all other things are rarely equal, it does happen too. Men mature slower, peak later, but then go downhill faster than women, so the equation keeps changing. Also, I think women are much more cyclical in their nature, so it is possible to experience another “spring” even when you are 60, and then find yourself making out with a fresh, old “boy” in the front seat of a car again come summer.

@Alphaville:

Yeah, obviously I would have brown sugar on the oats with walnuts too. Maybe even some half n half. Possibly an apple.

There is no point to eating toast without jam, but I could try just having an egg and an orange, except that is too boring, so I will have onions peppers with the egg, and dollop of plain thick yogurt with the orange. Just half of a dark chocolate croissant would really complete this picture for me, but I will forgo until in maintenance period (sigh.)

so this is now just the garden you wanted, and your playground, and there's no rush. i see/hear ya. will recompute.

Yup, sorry to confuse. I was feeling desperately trapped before, but now that my options have opened up and will open up further post-vaccine, I would rather have fun with it.

@theanimal:

Thanks! I have tried intermittent fasting and it works almost too well for me in terms of weight loss, and delay don’t deny works well with my toddler like psychology, but wreaks havoc on my digestive system. Likely this is in part due to my heavy coffee consumption level.