Western Red Cedar's Journal
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
@Stasher - this was actually my first Rich Roll podcast. I was impressed by his research and interview style. I'll have to check out more episodes as I know he gets some big names on his podcast.
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
All this talk about long rides is making me reconsider my resolution to sell my Capra. Maybe I'll just fix it up a bit and go for a couple rides for old times' sake before making the final call...
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
That certainly sounds like a good idea to me. I"m typically in a great headspace when I'm out on rides. Cycling has been a great reinforcer for my mindfulness and meditation practices as I tend to be present for long periods when I'm on a bike.
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Good luck with your new opportunity! I'm still finding my footing and comfortability in my new role as well. I love the autonomy, leadership, and free reign of creative control rather then having to follow someone else's checklists. I used to have all sorts of ideas as the worker bee but never wanted to implement because that would always just mean more work - but now as the leader, you kind of get motivated to build your project/product the way you want; almost like a video game in a weird way...The cons is the politics, people managing, and that constant feeling of low-level stress which in itself may or may not be harmful; your day will fly at least. At least that has been my experience.
Being close to FI makes you question the "why" so much. I somewhat understand this. I could just do a "CoastFI" or "Semi-ERE" via financial numbers alone ... but we're personally seeing so much inflow of cash we don't want to do anything to slow that trend down.
I think the conversation you had with your supervisor was a tough one to have. Something I'll need to get better at as well. I had a customer presentation today and a few of my colleagues bailed on the meeting (just didn't show up wtf) so I had to present in there place with 40 or so individuals on the zoom .... so it went kinda awkwardly - so another skill to add, thinking on your feet...but also strange world where we can't sometimes make people accountable due to various people politics or lack of influence. In my situation, almost everyone I work with I've never met in real life.
Being close to FI makes you question the "why" so much. I somewhat understand this. I could just do a "CoastFI" or "Semi-ERE" via financial numbers alone ... but we're personally seeing so much inflow of cash we don't want to do anything to slow that trend down.
I think the conversation you had with your supervisor was a tough one to have. Something I'll need to get better at as well. I had a customer presentation today and a few of my colleagues bailed on the meeting (just didn't show up wtf) so I had to present in there place with 40 or so individuals on the zoom .... so it went kinda awkwardly - so another skill to add, thinking on your feet...but also strange world where we can't sometimes make people accountable due to various people politics or lack of influence. In my situation, almost everyone I work with I've never met in real life.
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
I would say this is a misrepresentation of "what people here believe" -- assuming one can say that people here believe a monolithical set of things to start with. I don't think anyone disagrees that larger policy change is more appropriate and can move the needle more. There is little argument about this: the largest polluters are corporate + military. The way to reign in corporate is through gvt regulation, if not at the national then at the supranational level.Western Red Cedar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:06 pmhe supported my belief (unorthodox around here) that larger policy change is more appropriate to address those issues. I think folks underestimate how significantly we can move the needle through policy, rather than bottom-up change.
The problem isn't that people don't believe this is the most effective way. Rather, they believe that even though it's the most effective way, it's not gonna happen. And given that it's not gonna happen, the best you can do is level up on your ERE akillz, or as (I think?) Axel Heyst said, git good at being poor.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
@Lemur - thanks for the feedback and thoughts. I'll be interested to hear your perspective as your project progresses. I'm technically about 9 months into mine, but it's only really started picking up in the last 5 months.
Very true, my household is in the same boat right now.Lemur wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:41 pmBeing close to FI makes you question the "why" so much. I somewhat understand this. I could just do a "CoastFI" or "Semi-ERE" via financial numbers alone ... but we're personally seeing so much inflow of cash we don't want to do anything to slow that trend down.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
ertyu wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:39 pmI would say this is a misrepresentation of "what people here believe" -- assuming one can say that people here believe a monolithical set of things to start with. I don't think anyone disagrees that larger policy change is more appropriate and can move the needle more. There is little argument about this
The problem isn't that people don't believe this is the most effective way. Rather, they believe that even though it's the most effective way, it's not gonna happen. And given that it's not gonna happen, the best you can do is level up on your ERE akillz, or as (I think?) Axel Heyst said, git good at being poor.
I think this is a fair rebuttal. I spent a while reading this thread again this morning and the beliefs are clearly more nuanced. They are certainly not monolithic. The post was probably a partial response to @Jacob's addressing top-down vs. bottom-up in a recent podcast (the Stoa?) as well as a fairly dominant trend in the dialogue to give up on policy solutions.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11677
I'm not at the point of considering policy solutions as an oxymoron. I think the lack of an international consensus on policy approaches over the last 30-40 years is primarily the result of a few major players dragging their feet or refusing to substantively engage. I also think just giving up on policy solutions (national or international) and focusing on skills is somewhat analogous to the elite buying bunkers in New Zealand.*
The reason I linked to the Honnold interview is that he captured my thinking on the balance between bottom-up and top-down solutions to climate change so well. It's really important to make individual changes and those do have an impact, but there are much larger gains to be made through changes at a larger scale. The optimist in me has to disagree that they won't happen. It's probably more of a question about when they will happen, what level of crisis will really force them to happen, and how late to the game we will be.
*I tread very carefully in openly diverging from @Jacob's opinions on climate change (and geopolitics) in the forum. It's a bit like picking a street fight with Connor McGregor or Mike Tyson.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Financial Update:
NW - 393,118 (Increase of16,994)
Another strong month in the markets kept us moving towards our financial goals. The gains over the last 12 months have been pretty wild. I'm about 87% of the way to a household Semi ERE goal.
Personal Stuff (the good):
I managed to take the new bike out last weekend or my longest ride yet - 46 miles! I think June is probably a reasonable target for a short, self-supported multi-nighter on the bike. I've got a big deadline at work at the end of May and will be taking a 3-day weekend for my first backpacking excursion next weekend, so not a lot of extra room in my calendar this month. It looks like the early Morels are out in the PNW so I've selected a backpacking trip in the Coeur D'Alene National Forest for my annual birthday excursion. I'm looking at two nights, and should have plenty of time to forage for Morels while I'm there.
DW and I made it out to my parents cabin last week for a couple of nights. It was restorative and nice to be up there with someone else. I shot a little bit of video, and grabbed a couple nice photos in the evenings. I split some wood and cleaned up some brush, but mostly just took it easy. Perhaps most exciting, is that my sister and brother-in-law are likely going to buy a neighboring 45 acre property and homestead to add to the family plots. The price is a bit steep considering the house needs major work and doesn't have a septic system, but the land is beautiful, has a small creek, and comes with water rights that could support some fairly extensive gardening. The coolest part of it (which I researched and told my parents and sister) is that the land borders Federal BLM land on one side. As I looked more closely at ownership and parcel information, I realized that there are at least a dozen other parcels in public ownership (state and federal) that connect to the property. This means that we'd have access to 1000+ acres for hiking, exploring, and even some limited mountain biking.
This also relieves a little pressure on me in terms of long-term maintenance up there. If they have established roots, they can more easily take care of maintenance issues and keep an eye on things as my parents get older.
Personal Stuff (the bad):
April was a pretty rough month in the Western Red Cedar household. If I'm honest with myself, probably the worst month in the last 10 years, or possibly ever. DW was the victim of an elaborate fraud scheme in early April and it really shook her up. The whole ordeal lasted multiple hours and she has been slowly recovery from the emotional trauma of the experience. I was also involved near the end of it, and barely slept the next two nights.
She was physically exhausted from multiple panic attacks through the middle of the month, and scared to leave the house, drive a car, or talk on the phone. She's doing much better now and will be going back to work for the first time tomorrow. She is one of the most kind, honest, and gracious people I've ever met so it was really hard to see someone take advantage of that and the impact it had on her.
The financial hit wasn't too bad (low 4 figures) and various backstops in our system limited the damage.
The whole thing was surreal and I'm glad things are starting to get back to normal. On a positive note, I spent so much time and energy supporting her through the month that I was laser-focused at work when I was on the clock and didn't have any capacity to stress out about professional projects or obligations.
Future Plans:
I'm still doing quite a bit of research on travel plans as we approach Semi ERE or FI. I'm hoping to use my time out in the forest next weekend to think more deliberately about what I'd like to get out of the trip. My current mindset is reactive, looking to get away from work-related stress and pressure. I'd really like to approach it with a more proactive perspective. I think a lot more opportunities will present themselves during and after the trip if I use it as an opportunity not just to decompress, but to grow. I want to be more deliberate about where we go and what I intend to do with such a large amount of unstructured time. It is a gift I am giving to myself, and I don't want to waste it.
NW - 393,118 (Increase of16,994)
Another strong month in the markets kept us moving towards our financial goals. The gains over the last 12 months have been pretty wild. I'm about 87% of the way to a household Semi ERE goal.
Personal Stuff (the good):
I managed to take the new bike out last weekend or my longest ride yet - 46 miles! I think June is probably a reasonable target for a short, self-supported multi-nighter on the bike. I've got a big deadline at work at the end of May and will be taking a 3-day weekend for my first backpacking excursion next weekend, so not a lot of extra room in my calendar this month. It looks like the early Morels are out in the PNW so I've selected a backpacking trip in the Coeur D'Alene National Forest for my annual birthday excursion. I'm looking at two nights, and should have plenty of time to forage for Morels while I'm there.
DW and I made it out to my parents cabin last week for a couple of nights. It was restorative and nice to be up there with someone else. I shot a little bit of video, and grabbed a couple nice photos in the evenings. I split some wood and cleaned up some brush, but mostly just took it easy. Perhaps most exciting, is that my sister and brother-in-law are likely going to buy a neighboring 45 acre property and homestead to add to the family plots. The price is a bit steep considering the house needs major work and doesn't have a septic system, but the land is beautiful, has a small creek, and comes with water rights that could support some fairly extensive gardening. The coolest part of it (which I researched and told my parents and sister) is that the land borders Federal BLM land on one side. As I looked more closely at ownership and parcel information, I realized that there are at least a dozen other parcels in public ownership (state and federal) that connect to the property. This means that we'd have access to 1000+ acres for hiking, exploring, and even some limited mountain biking.
This also relieves a little pressure on me in terms of long-term maintenance up there. If they have established roots, they can more easily take care of maintenance issues and keep an eye on things as my parents get older.
Personal Stuff (the bad):
April was a pretty rough month in the Western Red Cedar household. If I'm honest with myself, probably the worst month in the last 10 years, or possibly ever. DW was the victim of an elaborate fraud scheme in early April and it really shook her up. The whole ordeal lasted multiple hours and she has been slowly recovery from the emotional trauma of the experience. I was also involved near the end of it, and barely slept the next two nights.
She was physically exhausted from multiple panic attacks through the middle of the month, and scared to leave the house, drive a car, or talk on the phone. She's doing much better now and will be going back to work for the first time tomorrow. She is one of the most kind, honest, and gracious people I've ever met so it was really hard to see someone take advantage of that and the impact it had on her.
The financial hit wasn't too bad (low 4 figures) and various backstops in our system limited the damage.
The whole thing was surreal and I'm glad things are starting to get back to normal. On a positive note, I spent so much time and energy supporting her through the month that I was laser-focused at work when I was on the clock and didn't have any capacity to stress out about professional projects or obligations.
Future Plans:
I'm still doing quite a bit of research on travel plans as we approach Semi ERE or FI. I'm hoping to use my time out in the forest next weekend to think more deliberately about what I'd like to get out of the trip. My current mindset is reactive, looking to get away from work-related stress and pressure. I'd really like to approach it with a more proactive perspective. I think a lot more opportunities will present themselves during and after the trip if I use it as an opportunity not just to decompress, but to grow. I want to be more deliberate about where we go and what I intend to do with such a large amount of unstructured time. It is a gift I am giving to myself, and I don't want to waste it.
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
That's really exciting about the property! That sounds like a perfect scenario.
I'm sorry to hear you guys experienced that. Hopefully May goes much better and you and DW can recover quickly.
I'm sorry to hear you guys experienced that. Hopefully May goes much better and you and DW can recover quickly.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
@theanimal - thanks for the kind sentiment. I'm pretty much over it and DW seems much better. Beautiful Spring weather sure helps lift the spirits. We had a nice hike this afternoon and I followed it up with a 21 mile bike ride.
I'm definitely stoked about the future of the family property. I discussed buying the 20 acre piece with the tiny house more seriously with my parents and brother-in-law if they needed to raise some additional capital, but I don't think it will be necessary. I've mentioned before that I pretty much have full access to the land without ownership, so it makes my life easier without it for the time being. I'll see how I feel about it all after some extended slow travel.
My sister and BIL have a pretty cool vision for the land. They are interested in responsible land management and establishing a multigenerational base for the family outside of the city.
I'm definitely stoked about the future of the family property. I discussed buying the 20 acre piece with the tiny house more seriously with my parents and brother-in-law if they needed to raise some additional capital, but I don't think it will be necessary. I've mentioned before that I pretty much have full access to the land without ownership, so it makes my life easier without it for the time being. I'll see how I feel about it all after some extended slow travel.
My sister and BIL have a pretty cool vision for the land. They are interested in responsible land management and establishing a multigenerational base for the family outside of the city.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Sorry to hear about fraud issue with your better half. I’m sure that must’ve been stressful.
Enjoy the backpacking in CdL. N. Idaho is beautiful!![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Enjoy the backpacking in CdL. N. Idaho is beautiful!
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Thanks M2aS! She's been thriving in her first few days back at work and her schedule is actually much better now. I'm constantly trying to look for the silver linings in these types of situations.
I talked to a ranger today and she thought the road/trail I was looking at in N. Idaho was covered in snow. I don't think she knows what she's talking about as everything under 4,000 ft. a couple hours away is snow-free, but I may end up going to the Wenaha River in the Umatilla National Forest instead (NE Oregon). I haven't really explored this region much, and the trail should be open. The cons are more active rattlesnakes and the Morels may not be out there. Wherever I end up, I'll post some photos and a trip report.
I talked to a ranger today and she thought the road/trail I was looking at in N. Idaho was covered in snow. I don't think she knows what she's talking about as everything under 4,000 ft. a couple hours away is snow-free, but I may end up going to the Wenaha River in the Umatilla National Forest instead (NE Oregon). I haven't really explored this region much, and the trail should be open. The cons are more active rattlesnakes and the Morels may not be out there. Wherever I end up, I'll post some photos and a trip report.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Sorry to hear about the fraud; that sounds terrible. Wishing you the best for the future.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Dirtbags and ERE:
A few of us have discussed the concept of dirtbagging in relation to ERE. I read Yvon Chouinard's memoir a while back and have been consuming a lot of video content from Patagonia, Yeti, and filmmakers who are in that social circle (Jeff Johnson, Dan Malloy, Jimmy Chin, etc.). I've wanted to write up a post on this, but hadn't really collected my thoughts. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, but wanted to put something down so I can move on to other things or hear from others.
Here's a quick definition that popped up first on google for those that aren't familiar with the term: Dirtbags are people that forsake the comforts of home and material belongings to pursue their passion. The classic example is the dirtbag climber that lives out of their van and thinks tortillas with peanut butter is an acceptable dinner.
I saw this post on the front page a couple days ago and it seemed to relate, which is why I'm finally writing this up:
https://earlyretirementextreme.com/what ... lists.html
I didn't participate much in all of the recent Wheaton Level discussions, but I followed along pretty closely and some of the discussion and responses from @Jacob clarified my own understanding of the table and the process of progressing. The WL table is a particularly common path, but not necessarily the only one according to the dialogue. As a meta rule, one can apparently not jump levels (though I'm not sure I completely agree with this). I look at examples like Yvon Chouinard, Doug Tompkins, Alex Honnold, Jimmy Chin, the Malloy brothers, and others in the outdoor adventure world, and think they may have found a better way. Rob Greenfield might be another example in a different context. It's like they found the secret warps to advance to a higher level. The magic flute that lets them skip the whole consumer, salaryman, BS mindset. They just refused to buy into it and became successful through simple living and pursuing their passions or interests. Got to a place where people were paying them to do what they would do for fun.
Let My People Go Surfing - The Education of a Reluctant Businessman:
I've been really interested in Yvon Chouinard for the last five years. It started when I watched 180 degrees south, and then grew as I learned about Patagonia's environmental work. He is an OG dirtbag who tried to navigate capitalism and the business world with a strong environmental ethic.
You can just check out a couple of his talks on YouTube to get an idea of his message, but I particularly like the film Mountain of Storms. It is a lesson about stepping out of your comfort zone, and how that has the potential to change your life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxM2cOvq6s8
Doug Tompkins story is possibly more fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDnhjkULdM
As I read the book, it reminded me of ERE on many levels. I think that is the result of a shared environmental ethic, and the fact that a lot of the values are/were basic common sense for generations. He places a large emphasis on working with your hands. He said his kids could do whatever they wanted, as long as they chose a path that allowed them to work with their hands and honed it over the years. Here is a quick review and some quotes that I thought apply here:
The first half of the book is a memoir. It explains how Chouinard transitioned from an aimless wanderer, adventurer, and dirtbag climber to the owner of a small boutique gear company, and then on to a much larger, international business. The second half of the book describes the philosophy of the company - product design, production, distribution, image, financial, human resource, management, and environmental philosophies.
Chouinard has serious concerns about peak oil and climate change. He attempts to structure the business to function in a locally based economy. Cheap transportation that fuels the global economy is unsustainable.
I really started to pay attention to Patagonia as a result of their campaign to protect Bears Ears national monument, which is a scared place for indigenous communities. The more I learned about the company, the more I liked. Yvon Chouinard and Doug Tompkins serve as examples of success based on my values. They lived life on their own terms, prioritized adventure and time outdoors, and built an environmental legacy after understanding the harm caused by contemporary society.
This is their environmental philosophy:
Lead an examined life.
Clean up our own act.
Do our penance.
Support civil democracy.
Influence other companies.
“When Malinda and I made the decision to stay in business, we faced a personal challenge. Could we run a company that does much good and very little harm? Could we turn the company into a model, capable of effecting reform that we as individuals would be unable to accomplish? Could we actually change the way others treat the natural world? The environmental crisis is too big for one company, or ten companies, or one hundred companies.”
“Diversity and sustainability are vital to natural systems of living things, but it’s not always clear how these traits translate into good business practice. We bing with the assumption that our business relies on natural resources to stay alive, and we are therefore a part of the system and obligated to maintain it. We embrace diversity and sustainability in all aspects of business.”
“No matter how diligent we are at Patagonia in trying to cause less harm to the environment with our business, everything we make causes some waste and pollution. So the next step in our responsibility is to pay for our sins until such a time that we hope we can stop sinning.”
“Not many of us believe that our politicians or corporate moguls are going to lead us away from this apocalyptic environmental slide. It’s going to take a revolution, and revolutions don’t start from the top…The Zen master would say if you want to change government, you have to aim at changing corporations, and if you want to change corporations, you first have to change the consumers.”
“Our current landscape is filled with complacency, be it in the corporate world or on the environmental front. Only on the fringes of an ecosystem, those outer rings, do evolution and adaptation occur at a furious pace; the inner center of the system is where the entrenched, non adapting species die off, doomed to failure by maintaining the status quo. Businesses go through the same cycles. Conventional corporations are at the center of the ring, and eventually they will die off, through either their own misdeeds or catastrophic events, such as dismal economic climates or unforeseen competition. Only those businesses operating with a sense of urgency, dancing on the fringe, constantly evolving, open to diversity and new ways of doing things, are going to be here one hundred years from now.”
“I have a different definition of evil from most people. Evil doesn’t have to be an overt act; it can be merely the absence of good. If you have the ability, the resources, and the opportunity to do good and you do nothing, that can be evil.”
“If the world won’t listen to me as an individual, perhaps they’ll listen to the voice of a company of a thousand individuals. I can’t reform the entire conventional farming industry, but I can ensure Patagonia only buys organic cotton, and I can persuade other companies to buy it…If the demand for sustainably grown products ere to become great enough, the markets would change, corporations would have to respond, and then governments would follow.”
“Every time we’ve elected to do the right thing, even when it costs twice as much to do it that way, it’s turned out to be more profitable. This strengthens my confidence that we’re headed in the right direction…When we act positively on solving problems instead of trying to find a way around them, we’re farther along on the path toward sustainability. Plus we are constantly discovering more things we can do.”
“Patagonia’s environmental efforts began in the 1970s simply trying to prevent physical damage to the rock walls of Yosemite. It was about clean climbing and making high-quality products that weren’t disposable. Later we started looking at minimizing the environmental harm associated with manufacturing our products. As we became more aware of the current crisis, we broadened our efforts to include correcting and cleaning up the potentially fatal environmental damage we as a society are inflicting on our planet and ourselves.”
“Climbing mountains is another process that serves as an example for both business and life. Many people don’t understand that how you climb a mountain is more important than reaching the top.”
A few of us have discussed the concept of dirtbagging in relation to ERE. I read Yvon Chouinard's memoir a while back and have been consuming a lot of video content from Patagonia, Yeti, and filmmakers who are in that social circle (Jeff Johnson, Dan Malloy, Jimmy Chin, etc.). I've wanted to write up a post on this, but hadn't really collected my thoughts. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, but wanted to put something down so I can move on to other things or hear from others.
Here's a quick definition that popped up first on google for those that aren't familiar with the term: Dirtbags are people that forsake the comforts of home and material belongings to pursue their passion. The classic example is the dirtbag climber that lives out of their van and thinks tortillas with peanut butter is an acceptable dinner.
I saw this post on the front page a couple days ago and it seemed to relate, which is why I'm finally writing this up:
https://earlyretirementextreme.com/what ... lists.html
I didn't participate much in all of the recent Wheaton Level discussions, but I followed along pretty closely and some of the discussion and responses from @Jacob clarified my own understanding of the table and the process of progressing. The WL table is a particularly common path, but not necessarily the only one according to the dialogue. As a meta rule, one can apparently not jump levels (though I'm not sure I completely agree with this). I look at examples like Yvon Chouinard, Doug Tompkins, Alex Honnold, Jimmy Chin, the Malloy brothers, and others in the outdoor adventure world, and think they may have found a better way. Rob Greenfield might be another example in a different context. It's like they found the secret warps to advance to a higher level. The magic flute that lets them skip the whole consumer, salaryman, BS mindset. They just refused to buy into it and became successful through simple living and pursuing their passions or interests. Got to a place where people were paying them to do what they would do for fun.
Let My People Go Surfing - The Education of a Reluctant Businessman:
I've been really interested in Yvon Chouinard for the last five years. It started when I watched 180 degrees south, and then grew as I learned about Patagonia's environmental work. He is an OG dirtbag who tried to navigate capitalism and the business world with a strong environmental ethic.
You can just check out a couple of his talks on YouTube to get an idea of his message, but I particularly like the film Mountain of Storms. It is a lesson about stepping out of your comfort zone, and how that has the potential to change your life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxM2cOvq6s8
Doug Tompkins story is possibly more fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDnhjkULdM
As I read the book, it reminded me of ERE on many levels. I think that is the result of a shared environmental ethic, and the fact that a lot of the values are/were basic common sense for generations. He places a large emphasis on working with your hands. He said his kids could do whatever they wanted, as long as they chose a path that allowed them to work with their hands and honed it over the years. Here is a quick review and some quotes that I thought apply here:
The first half of the book is a memoir. It explains how Chouinard transitioned from an aimless wanderer, adventurer, and dirtbag climber to the owner of a small boutique gear company, and then on to a much larger, international business. The second half of the book describes the philosophy of the company - product design, production, distribution, image, financial, human resource, management, and environmental philosophies.
Chouinard has serious concerns about peak oil and climate change. He attempts to structure the business to function in a locally based economy. Cheap transportation that fuels the global economy is unsustainable.
I really started to pay attention to Patagonia as a result of their campaign to protect Bears Ears national monument, which is a scared place for indigenous communities. The more I learned about the company, the more I liked. Yvon Chouinard and Doug Tompkins serve as examples of success based on my values. They lived life on their own terms, prioritized adventure and time outdoors, and built an environmental legacy after understanding the harm caused by contemporary society.
This is their environmental philosophy:
Lead an examined life.
Clean up our own act.
Do our penance.
Support civil democracy.
Influence other companies.
“When Malinda and I made the decision to stay in business, we faced a personal challenge. Could we run a company that does much good and very little harm? Could we turn the company into a model, capable of effecting reform that we as individuals would be unable to accomplish? Could we actually change the way others treat the natural world? The environmental crisis is too big for one company, or ten companies, or one hundred companies.”
“Diversity and sustainability are vital to natural systems of living things, but it’s not always clear how these traits translate into good business practice. We bing with the assumption that our business relies on natural resources to stay alive, and we are therefore a part of the system and obligated to maintain it. We embrace diversity and sustainability in all aspects of business.”
“No matter how diligent we are at Patagonia in trying to cause less harm to the environment with our business, everything we make causes some waste and pollution. So the next step in our responsibility is to pay for our sins until such a time that we hope we can stop sinning.”
“Not many of us believe that our politicians or corporate moguls are going to lead us away from this apocalyptic environmental slide. It’s going to take a revolution, and revolutions don’t start from the top…The Zen master would say if you want to change government, you have to aim at changing corporations, and if you want to change corporations, you first have to change the consumers.”
“Our current landscape is filled with complacency, be it in the corporate world or on the environmental front. Only on the fringes of an ecosystem, those outer rings, do evolution and adaptation occur at a furious pace; the inner center of the system is where the entrenched, non adapting species die off, doomed to failure by maintaining the status quo. Businesses go through the same cycles. Conventional corporations are at the center of the ring, and eventually they will die off, through either their own misdeeds or catastrophic events, such as dismal economic climates or unforeseen competition. Only those businesses operating with a sense of urgency, dancing on the fringe, constantly evolving, open to diversity and new ways of doing things, are going to be here one hundred years from now.”
“I have a different definition of evil from most people. Evil doesn’t have to be an overt act; it can be merely the absence of good. If you have the ability, the resources, and the opportunity to do good and you do nothing, that can be evil.”
“If the world won’t listen to me as an individual, perhaps they’ll listen to the voice of a company of a thousand individuals. I can’t reform the entire conventional farming industry, but I can ensure Patagonia only buys organic cotton, and I can persuade other companies to buy it…If the demand for sustainably grown products ere to become great enough, the markets would change, corporations would have to respond, and then governments would follow.”
“Every time we’ve elected to do the right thing, even when it costs twice as much to do it that way, it’s turned out to be more profitable. This strengthens my confidence that we’re headed in the right direction…When we act positively on solving problems instead of trying to find a way around them, we’re farther along on the path toward sustainability. Plus we are constantly discovering more things we can do.”
“Patagonia’s environmental efforts began in the 1970s simply trying to prevent physical damage to the rock walls of Yosemite. It was about clean climbing and making high-quality products that weren’t disposable. Later we started looking at minimizing the environmental harm associated with manufacturing our products. As we became more aware of the current crisis, we broadened our efforts to include correcting and cleaning up the potentially fatal environmental damage we as a society are inflicting on our planet and ourselves.”
“Climbing mountains is another process that serves as an example for both business and life. Many people don’t understand that how you climb a mountain is more important than reaching the top.”
- mountainFrugal
- Posts: 1141
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
I think there are many similarities between ERE and dirtbagging. I was a pseudo-climbing dirtbag for my early 20s traveling and climbing all over North America living out of my car/tent. When I first found the ERE book, I was like O! of course this lifestyle exists for other reasons. The last phrase about how you climb the mountain is dead on. So many of my cohort of dirtbags only cared about chasing grade numbers often completely ignoring the amazingly beautiful nature that was surrounding them.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
This is a great koan for me to reflect on; thank you for sharing. I've been resistant to small business ownership because the business world usually clashes with my values, but it may be part of the next step of my journey.
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
@mF - Thanks for stopping by. I don't have too much technical climbing experience, but I'm an eager backpacker who takes advantage of summits when they present themselves. It's amazing how easy it is to get wrapped up in other things while out in beautiful places. To remain unaware to the beauty and intricacies of the natural world while it is staring you in the face. I spent a couple nights hiking and camping last weekend and forced myself to stop periodically for multiple hours along the river in different places. I was always rewarded with something amazing if I was willing to slow down and sit still for even five minutes. I'll do a more detailed trip report later.
@RF - Happy to share. I think Chouinard is a Buddhist (he at least regularly refers to Zen Buddhism) and it was fascinating to read about him grappling with capitalism while staying true to personal values. I think it's probably easier as a small business owner focused on community to stay true to your values, but becomes really challenging when you grow beyond a few hundred employees, much less an international company. The title of the book says it all - the education of a reluctant businessman.
@RF - Happy to share. I think Chouinard is a Buddhist (he at least regularly refers to Zen Buddhism) and it was fascinating to read about him grappling with capitalism while staying true to personal values. I think it's probably easier as a small business owner focused on community to stay true to your values, but becomes really challenging when you grow beyond a few hundred employees, much less an international company. The title of the book says it all - the education of a reluctant businessman.
- mountainFrugal
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 2:26 pm
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
In addition to taking it all in while on breaks the following few exercises and resources have really increased my enjoyment and experience while hiking/running.
If you are interested in expanding your awareness while stopped somewhere ...a very simple exercise is to draw a small circle on the ground and just watch it for X amount of time. Take a mental note of all that goes on within this small circle. I am ALWAYS surprised at how much goes on especially if you commit to 30-60 minutes. Wind carrying pollen grains. An epic ant battle for another dead insect. Rain drops falling on very dry dirt and pooling away with a dirt coating, etc. etc.
Another technique is work on "coyote vision". This is where you slowly train yourself to hike by focusing your awareness on your periphery vision. This is a technique I learned from Animal Tracking Basics by Jon Young. Many of his teachings are interesting, but lean a little to far into the nature mysticism for my taste, but cool awareness techniques non the less. The major advantage to this technique is that once you have some practice, hiking (or trail running for that matter), relies much more on the broader picture view, rather than grinding out the hike by looking down at the ground. I find a good mixture and a more immersive experience when I try this on the trail.
Finally, I would recommend The Laws Guide to Nature Journaling if you are interested in documenting your experience in addition to mental notes and photos. John Muir Laws has a bunch of youtube videos as well teaching various observation/drawing/painting techniques.
If you are interested in expanding your awareness while stopped somewhere ...a very simple exercise is to draw a small circle on the ground and just watch it for X amount of time. Take a mental note of all that goes on within this small circle. I am ALWAYS surprised at how much goes on especially if you commit to 30-60 minutes. Wind carrying pollen grains. An epic ant battle for another dead insect. Rain drops falling on very dry dirt and pooling away with a dirt coating, etc. etc.
Another technique is work on "coyote vision". This is where you slowly train yourself to hike by focusing your awareness on your periphery vision. This is a technique I learned from Animal Tracking Basics by Jon Young. Many of his teachings are interesting, but lean a little to far into the nature mysticism for my taste, but cool awareness techniques non the less. The major advantage to this technique is that once you have some practice, hiking (or trail running for that matter), relies much more on the broader picture view, rather than grinding out the hike by looking down at the ground. I find a good mixture and a more immersive experience when I try this on the trail.
Finally, I would recommend The Laws Guide to Nature Journaling if you are interested in documenting your experience in addition to mental notes and photos. John Muir Laws has a bunch of youtube videos as well teaching various observation/drawing/painting techniques.
- grundomatic
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:04 am
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
I read "Let My People Go Surfing" over a decade ago when I was getting my MBA. I remember being envious of the lifestyle, but having no idea how to get there. His upbringing and personality are pretty much the opposite of mine. I excelled in school and I am not naturally good with my hands. My favorite part of the book was the story of sending scrap metal COD to an overdue account when they placed another order.
I also followed the WL discussions, the most recent updates and discussion is what brought me out of lurking on this forum. I think the allowance made for people like Chouinard was that people could come in through side doors.
I am currently reading a book about permaculture pattern language called "Change Here Now", and it recommends "iSites"--a natural place that one regularly returns to in order to observe and be inspired. Do you have such a place? I need to find one that is convenient but not overrun. While I am at it, I could stand to slow down while I am out there, too often I power through a hike with little to no time spent not moving.
I also followed the WL discussions, the most recent updates and discussion is what brought me out of lurking on this forum. I think the allowance made for people like Chouinard was that people could come in through side doors.
I am currently reading a book about permaculture pattern language called "Change Here Now", and it recommends "iSites"--a natural place that one regularly returns to in order to observe and be inspired. Do you have such a place? I need to find one that is convenient but not overrun. While I am at it, I could stand to slow down while I am out there, too often I power through a hike with little to no time spent not moving.
Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal
Something that improves my enjoyment of hiking and nature walks is going alone. I like the freedom of walking as fast or as slow as I feel like, and the freedom to stop at any spot for as long as I like and just being still and connecting with the space. It's why I prefer walking to bicycling a trail, too: walking makes me feel much more connected to my surroundings. When you see something beautiful, wait before you snap that picture. Wedge yourself in that moment between "whoa" and automatically reaching for your phone and connect with what you see. It's nice to hike and walk with others and talk, but don't ignore the solitary hike either.