Western Red Cedar's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
Married2aSwabian
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Married2aSwabian »

First, I hope that your DW is doing better. I can empathize with having family members with anxiety and depression.

The hike looks amazing, if a bit more challenging than planned. Fantastic pictures (again).

It’s inspiration to get into better backpacking shape for future trips!

Frugalchicos
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Frugalchicos »

Impressive pictures!

So sorry for your wife, I hope she recovers soon. Perhaps some hikes with you will help? Nature always helps healing the soul.

Also, I like the concept of the gratitude journal. I might steal the idea.

theanimal
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by theanimal »

Great pictures and report! I bet you're happy to have started with the blowdowns. That would've been a rough way to finish. That cabin looks really cool.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by mountainFrugal »

I enjoyed reading your trip report. I hope you and your wife find new ways to grow together out this experience.

mooretrees
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by mooretrees »

Your poor wife! I hope she's making progress and it's great she can take the time away from work to heal.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Thanks all for the kind words. This community tends to be very supportive, which is a pleasant alternative to other online spaces.

DW is supposed to go back to work next week, but we talked about it and she is planning on resigning. I told her I would cover all of our expenses until we decide to hit the road or if she wants to find a new job. I'm hoping she can focus on her art and mental health. I also have a lot of vacation saved up so we can hopefully do some fun trips over the summer in the PNW.
Frugalchicos wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:15 pm
Nature always helps healing the soul.
This is very true. I had today off and worked a half day yesterday so we went up to my parents' cabin for 24 hours. Very beautiful and nice to have some solitude. I played a lot of guitar and (hopefully) finished a song I started writing a few years ago. Also had a lot of time to read and poke around in the woods.

If she's feeling up to it, we may go out on a short backpacking trip next week. I had planned on taking the whole week off to do my bicycle tour across Idaho, but the timing isn't right. Maybe I'll go out in the early fall when things settle.

I'd also highly recommend a gratitude journal. We use the template from the 5 minute journal. It has a morning and evening component. In the morning, you write three things you are grateful for, three things that would make the day great, and two positive affirmations. In the evening you write three amazing things that happened in your day, and identify how you could have made it better. I find that regularly repeating this exercise really starts to change your thinking throughout the day.

Documenting three things that would make the day great also helps me frame what I want to accomplish at work or in my personal life in a way I wasn't doing without the journal.

------

Work and Walking Away:

I finished some major milestones at work earlier this month and it is nice to have some breathing room. The situation with DW has me thinking about taking off for some slow travel relatively soon - maybe by the end of the summer. That would mean that I'd be sticking one of my colleagues, who I consider friends, with a major project when I am much better equipped to manage it because I've been working on it for the last year. I don't feel great about that idea. I've also been really appreciative of my great health insurance lately, and want to make sure DW gets all the care she needs.

We are also hiring for a bunch of new positions soon. If I wanted, I could apply for a lateral move or a promotion to work exclusively on climate change policy over the next few years. I already work indirectly on this. This appeals to me and is the reason I got into my field, but I'm not sure if the timing is right.

While dealing with stress in my personal life, I did some spreadsheet therapy and added a couple new tabs to my FI spreadsheet. DW and I are basically at semi-ERE status right now. A little below what I mentioned for Semi ERE when I started this journal, but we could live off a 4-5% SWR in SE Asia or other locales with our combined NW.

If I'm honest with myself, I think the challenge with pulling the trigger centers on fear. Fear of losing a piece of my identity. Fear of walking away form a good paying job too early. Fear that if I leave, I'll never want to return to white collar work (or any work with a regular schedule) again. Fear of living indefinitely at a poverty level, and what that says about me as a provider for DW. Fear that pursuing my own interests without working on something for the larger public good is inherently selfish. Fear that I don't have the discipline to progress without the structure that work provides.

I'm still hiding in a cloak of normalcy even though we live unconventionally. That all changes when I walk away from my job.

mooretrees
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by mooretrees »

I totally grok the fear thinking as you approach pulling the trigger. As people wrote in my journal, moving from full time work to part time or, in your case, a big break, opens up so much head space for living that it is hard to imagine before it happens. I had panic moments before I went part time, thinking about health insurance, not being able to save money, being really poor (without skills) and it has all dissipated. We aren't in the same excellent money position that you are, and it was still worth it. I think some of your listed fears are normal and you'll slowly solve them as time passes. The reality, I'm sure you know this, is that so many people who 'retire' end up finding a neat project to work on and or transition to another career. That's why I think you're smart to explore before you hit your be all, end all FI number. Just read the journal of the portfolio charts fellow (I can't remember his forum handle!). Jacob, MMM and many others all quit, started a business or wrote a book, had another career and retired again. I am sure novel opportunities will come your way once full time work is in the rear view mirror.

I'm excited for you to pull off your cloak of normalcy and let your freak flag fly!

Married2aSwabian
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Married2aSwabian »

Yeah, mainstream media and society in general here in good old US of A really use fear as a major motivator: political spin is placed on fear of having something taken away (rather than joy of gaining something new), fear of failure, fear of financial problems, fear of health issues, fear of not having health insurance, and on and on.
I can relate and have some of the same thoughts as the month to month countdown approaches.

One thing that really stuck with me is a conversation I had with a German work colleague a few years ago. He had to go to Cuba to meet with a customer. They flew into Havana and drove across the entire length of the island. They were there for a few days. He said his biggest takeaway was, “…how happy the people were there.”. The way he said it, there was definitely a sense of longing, like, “Here we are, poor bastards slaving away in our big fancy western economies and these folks are living in paradise!”

One question for you - and this is just a thought that comes to mind from reading your journal - could you and DW envision being guides for backpacking trips? You definitely seem to have the skills, passion and knowledge. I can only imagine there would be tremendous demand for such a thing right now.

Frugalchicos
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Frugalchicos »

Fear of walking away form a good paying job too early. Fear that if I leave, I'll never want to return to white collar work
Based on my experience. I rather save up while you have a good paying job. I recommend being honest with yourself and set up a fair monetary goal you could live confortable with for the rest of your life and still have room for any potential change in life. Take advantage of all that time off you have and enjoy the PNW.

Living in SE Asia might be appealing now, but you might change your mind in the future.

I am happy we decided to come back to the the US to print more money so we have more wiggle room for whatever we decide we want to do in the future.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

mooretrees wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:07 pm
I'm excited for you to pull off your cloak of normalcy and let your freak flag fly!
Well said @MT :lol: . I was actually just listening to Almost Cut My Hair by CSNY in the car yesterday.

There are a number of stories here that show things work out well with extended breaks or part-time arrangements. Part of me suspects that more interesting opportunities will emerge if I take some time off and travel.

@M2aS - I think DW would probably laugh out loud if I floated the idea of her guiding backpacking trips. She'll come out with me for some short trips w/out too much elevation gain. She'd be much more suited for teaching ballet, dance, or yoga classes.

I think I have an aversion to monetizing my hobbies. Adding an element of business seems to take away much of the pleasure. My brother-in-law used to volunteer with a local organization that took inner-city kids on multi-night trips. I might be interested in that, but it also sounds a bit stressful. I've actually thought more seriously about guiding rafting trips. I have very limited experience, but figured it would be fun to learn and an enjoyable summer gig. A little easier on the knees too as I get older ;) .

@FC - Your advice is solid and something I've thought about a lot over the last couple years. I looked at your journal entries closely after you moved to Spain. Even our FI number (600k) is a little lean because it doesn't account for health care expenses and assumes we'll be able to rent for $1,000 per month over the next decade or two. With that said, I think we could cut expenses if we weren't working with some creative lifestyle hacks (housesitting, volunteer arrangements, WWOOFing, etc.).

I also know I'm the kind of person who will pick up some kind of work after a year or two. The nice flow of passive income (currently 15-20k) is just giving me the courage to explore options I might otherwise pass by.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Financial Update:

NW: 411,083 (Increase of 11,743).

Another solid month financially. This is the first month where I'm covering all of the household expenses. I've been feeling particularly grateful to have a steady job with solid health insurance lately. Our savings rate will decrease with DW not working, but we are still able to keep moving towards our financial goals with a single income.

Reading:

I need to do a better job of ditching books that I'm not enjoying. I have a bad habit of trying to struggle through books that I don't find particularly engaging. That leaves me reading much less in general. I made it halfway through an autobiography of Sandra Day O'Connor and her experience growing up on a cattle ranch in the Southwest. It was a bit astonishing how poor the writing was. I would have imagined a Supreme Court Justice would be a better writer. I finally dropped the book off at a little free library and started on some other stuff. I've been reading way more and going through a book a week. Life is too short to struggle through books that don't interest me.

I read through The Martian in a few days last week. A fun sci-fi escape. I just started the Nature Fix (Why Nature Makes us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative) which is great so far. Obviously right up my alley.

Health and Fitness:

I decided to start back up with a gym membership in June. It's only $10 per month with no contracts. I realized I needed a healthier outlet for stress, and lifting weights is a good fit for me. I've been lifting 5-6 days per week, and really cleaned up my diet a lot. I established a pretty good system for weight loss right before Covid shutdowns. It includes a regular lifting, intermittent fasting (eating between noon and 7:00), while maintaining a slight caloric deficit. I'm usually not too hungry because my two main meals include large amounts of vegetables and protein.

I gained back a bit of weight over the last year even though I've been riding my bike and hiking a lot. I've already lost 3-4 pounds in the last 3 weeks. I tend to spend a lot of time at home, so the social atmosphere of the gym is nice to change things up.

I've been on the high end of a healthy BMI ever since I started working in an office about 8 years ago. I'm committed to addressing that in the immediate future and hope to drop 10-15 pounds and maintain a healthier weight.


Work:

Work has been going really well lately. I think I've had so much stuff going on in my life, I haven't let work-related issues stress me out. It's actually been a nice distraction and feels good to make progress professionally. I'm trying not to think too much about the future, and just take things a day or week at a time. I'm taking long weekends for the first few weeks of July, which also makes things easier. Looking forward to some car-camping with friends in Montana in a couple weeks, and spending time with family in Seattle next weekend.

Other stuff:

When I started this journal I actively wanted to keep things positive. I let myself vent about work, but try not to dwell too much on things that aren't going well. I won't get into details here, but will note that this has been one of the most challenging months of my life with all of DW's mental health struggles. She is doing better now and quitting her job removed a lot of the external sources of stress and anxiety.

Stoicism has been helpful for keeping things in context and helping me deal with the pressure and stress.

I have a ton of vacation saved up (280 + hours) so I'm hoping DW and I are able to do some more interesting trips now that we don't have to plan around her work schedule.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Don't have anything insightful to say, just want to wish you well :)

Married2aSwabian
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Married2aSwabian »

Hope your DW is feeling better soon.

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RFS
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by RFS »

Western Red Cedar wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:03 pm
I decided to start back up with a gym membership in June. It's only $10 per month with no contracts. I realized I needed a healthier outlet for stress, and lifting weights is a good fit for me. I've been lifting 5-6 days per week, and really cleaned up my diet a lot. I established a pretty good system for weight loss right before Covid shutdowns. It includes a regular lifting, intermittent fasting (eating between noon and 7:00), while maintaining a slight caloric deficit. I'm usually not too hungry because my two main meals include large amounts of vegetables and protein.
Yes sir! I almost shed a tear of happiness reading this. Are you doing a training program, or just somewhat freestyling? Also, I ordered The Nature Fix from the library. Thanks for the recommendation. Onward, my man! Keep it up.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by mountainFrugal »

WRT reading books- I am paraphrasing Patrick Collison here: "open up to 3/4s of the way into the book and read 5 pages...does this interest you as much as the first few pages? If so then read the whole thing."

Frugalchicos
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Frugalchicos »

Great NW increase with one single salary.

I like your mental health plan with lifting weights, reading and stoicism. I did the same thing when things were hard...take it easy and persist. Try to go out with friends that listen and can give you good advise.

Wish you the best!

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

@RF and M2as - I appreciate the support. Thank you.

@MF - Good advice. I remember listening to an interview with Tyler Cowen and he mentioned that he adopted a practice of immediately ditching books if they weren't interesting or appealing. I've always been bad about this, but want to start moving in that direction. Too much great material out there and not enough time to read it all.

@FC - Thank you. Finding healthy intellectual and physical outlets certainly fits into my web of goals.

@RFS - Before the pandemic I fell into a really good routine of regular lifting and clean nutrition. I was active outdoors throughout the pandemic, but really like the ability to build lean muscle with weights. I live in a small apartment and have limited options for at home workouts due to space and noise issues.

My program is basically self-designed after trying different stuff off and on over the last 10-15 years. I try to focus on lifts that target multiple muscle groups so I can workout as efficiently as possible. I'm currently doing back/biceps on one day, chest/triceps/shoulders, followed by legs and abs. If I lift 6 days a week I cycle through that twice with a rest day.

I used to incorporate a lot more cardio into working out, but found that focusing almost exclusively on building lean muscle with weight training yields much better results. I also like to see the regulars and a tacit sense of camaraderie - learning new techniques or exercises here or there. I'm much more motivated to go hard for 60-120 minutes when I get out of the house, vs. staying at home and working out there.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Death of a Salaryman?

It was almost two years ago when I found out my boss was taking a promotion because our director was leaving. The news hit me with some combination of shock and concern. I had grown comfortable in my position and had a great relationship with him. I wasn't ready for a change. It also opened a management role for which I was well suited. Before they posted the position, he had me covering most of his old responsibilities. Multiple other staff, including management, told me I would be great in that role and that I should apply. We had a few positions to fill, so I had a few months to think about it.

It was a logical progression for a young, promising professional and the job was probably mine if I wanted it. I would have been managing a great team (my current colleagues) with an amazing boss who I already knew well. Pretty much the perfect environment for professional progress.

The only problem was that I was suffering from some pretty severe anxiety at the time. I didn't exactly know what it was, but now I do. It was so bad that it was regularly manifesting physically. I had experienced what I now know were some pretty severe panic attacks - two of which while I was on work trips. The last one found me holed up in a hotel room during a conference. I had a three hour event to moderate and present at after a full day with too much caffeine pumping through me, and the clock was ticking down while I was breaking down in my room. Somehow I pulled myself together and made it through the night, a hundred people in the crowd. I had to excuse myself multiple times and leave the room while others were presenting, but nobody seemed to notice based on the evaluations of the event.

I shrugged that off, but a few months later was talking to one of my favorite coworkers one morning with a cup of green tea. He's the only person I've met familiar with FIRE, and we've always got on great. During our conversation I found my heart racing and felt like the office was closing in on me. I told him I wasn't feeling well and walked to my doctor's office. Because I mentioned chest pain/heart issues, they took it really seriously. EKG and everything. Everything was fine physically, but at that point I knew I needed some additional help.

I went to counseling for the first time. I think by this time I realized I was struggling with anxiety, and she helped me realize how serious it was because it was presenting some pretty strong physical symptoms. My focus was figuring out whether to apply for what seemed like a logical career move with a cloud of anxiety hanging in the background. I identified some of the main triggers and began avoiding those. Honestly, the Headspace app and their program on anxiety probably helped more than counseling. In hindsight, I've probably always had some anxiety brewing and it's one of the elements of my success and drive to do interesting things in life.

Of course, my FI plans were well on the way and I knew that I didn't need the money for a new job. I didn't end up applying for it, at least in part because the additional stress didn't seem worth it to me. In my mind, this represented the death of the salaryman. I'm not exactly in an "up or out" environment, but I had consciously turned away from a great opportunity that would eventually lead to even more lucrative and interesting positions.

My coworker got the job and I'm really glad he did. He's not as technically proficient as I am, but has a great personality and is well-suited to management. I knew him well so it was a much easier transition than getting to know a new supervisor. I look at his schedule and don't envy all of the meetings and management responsibilities he has to deal with.

A few months after all of this the pandemic hit. Working from home full-time has been amazing. I was fortunate to keep my job and be in a position to work remotely. I knew my boss well and he appreciated my work. Much of the external stress of travel, presentations, and being in the office faded away. I was probably approaching burnout before the pandemic, but the new work environment made things much easier for me.

So, why do I bring all this up now? I've been looking at job postings and there are loads of new positions in my field. My current job is ramping up the workforce, just as I'm sprinting towards the FI finish line. I've been heavily focused on a year of travel to decompress and seize the day, but yesterday I found myself updating my resume for the first time since I thought about that management position. I'm seriously pondering applying for a promotion that would focus exclusively on climate change and include managing a small team. This is one of the main reasons why I went to graduate school and moved into the public sector. It's a really interesting gig, and I'm by no means a lock for the job. If I got it, I'd feel obligated to stay at least two years to establish the program. I would likely be safely at FI with current spending at that point, but I would also be there in my current role with two more years of work.

I think I'm comfortable with whatever happens. The new role could open up some amazing opportunities, and allow me to really hit on my WOG. A few years down the road, I could probably land an interesting international gig that scratches the travel itch while working to address climate change. I also know that if DW and I decide to hit the road, that will lead to some amazing opportunities and insights as well.

All of this reaffirms that the money, the math, isn't really the most important variable in ERE or FIRE. I was so focused on the math and getting to a number for a few years. The money and math works itself out after you decide to live simply and invest your savings. Designing a purposeful life is much more salient.

Jiimmy
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by Jiimmy »

I liked reading that update wrc, and will be following along to see how things pan out. I can relate, to a lesser extent, on the anxiety.

That's cool you're comfortable with whatever happens. I'm in a similar spot in my govt career. The outcome of several things (potential promotion/WFH policy/etc) could hasten me towards a semi fi strategy or keep me punching the clock through 2022.

The thinking in the last paragraph has been making more and more sense to me the closer I get to fi. I agree it's all about designing a purposeful life. The finances are just a side effect.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Western Red Cedar's Journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Your openness about these topics is refreshing. Some rambling thoughts on the topic from this internet stranger;

Anxiety is something that's been crippling in the past here too. Still comes back every now and then, mostly in work related situations.

One of the things I've failed to learn, is how to leverage the FU$ to create more mental slack and internalize the fact that many of the fears causing the anxiety are self inflicted. Broken down, the worst case situation causing much of that anxiety is usually some missed deadline at work?, a bad performance review?, embarrassment possibly? They rarely have a real material impact on the rest of your life, yet I tend to get very worked up sometimes. When I realized that work consumed my thoughts, before bed, when I woke up in the middle of the night, and prevented my from being *present* when I ought to have been.......it was time to pull the plug and reset. During a period of no traditional work, there were still things to stress about, non-work related challenges quickly replaced those left behind, but one thing I noticed is how much time slowed down and after a few months mental clarity improved drastically. It wasn't all great, because after a while there was a lack of working toward something, and a slight feeling of disassociation from the world. Granted, this time period also overlapped with one of the most mentally straining times for most of society, which could have definitely added an otherwise unlikely present layer to the situation.

Whether it was fear, greed, boredom, or some other drivers....I ended up exactly where I swore off nearly two years ago. White collar, trading time for money, and letting someone else control my subconscious thoughts with the promise of 401k matches and purpose via corporate pyramid.

In your shoes, I would take it a week, month, quarter at a time. Reading back the past year of your journal, the tides shift between two opposite masses. You'll know when the time is right, just don't let fear stop you from doing something to break the *expected* path in life.

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