From corporate drone to renaissance man

Where are you and where are you going?
Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

Hello all,

After your encouragement in my Intro post, I've decided to make a journal. I've pretty much run out of options for mentors and advice because most folks just don't see the world the way you guys do. I'm hoping that I will find more accountability and lifestyle authenticity by sharing solidarity with you fine people on this forum.

Thank you to everyone who shared advice over there. I'm especially grateful to @Classical_Liberal, as his journal is what initially led me to create an account and start posting here.

BACKGROUND:
30 year old male living in a HCOL city. Expenses are pretty high. Roughly 70% of income so far.

I was fairly frugal prior to January of 2020. The past 5 years in this town have been a slow grind. I had to learn to live light because I was pretty bad at my job (gotta be honest with you). I've trained myself to expect unemployment around every corner. The nature of my work is volatile, and it's not uncommon to see several six month to one year stints on our resumes.

I work in corporate sales, base plus commission. I performed well in my first two years, but I became burnt out after that and I quickly became a bottom-tier performer.

My saving grace is that I interview and network well. I'm really good at hiding in plain sight. Hate to admit that, but again, I want to be honest with you guys.

I've managed to secure and maintain a foothold in a sought after industry, perhaps the hottest one to be in right now. The problem is that I've built a staircase to the wrong house. My job doesn't fit my personality and it has become exhausting to play the role.

I've tried changing companies and industries. I've tried working remote. I've gotten a prescription for ADHD medication.

Nothing worked. I dread Monday to the point that I'm spending roughly $550 a month in bars to forget that 8AM is just around the corner.

All that said, I still feel like I'm being ungrateful. I'm from a small town with no jobs and a limited dating pool. I've managed to hold my own in one of the most competitive cities in the U.S. for 5 years. I think back to those nights when I was back home wishing for a clean office job in a fun city and I can't help thinking that I indeed got everything I wanted. I arrived at my goal, only it was the wrong goal for me.

It worked for my twenties. I learned a lot about areas of my life that I neglected back in my small hometown. I made a ton of friends, dated some great and not so great girls, and had a lot of fun while I just kind of floated along professionally.

The thing is, my values have changed significantly. I'm no longer interested in floating through life chasing feel good whims and I'm no longer under the spell of this city. The bars, the girls, the jobs are all fleeting. It's just been five years of one night bleeding into the next chasing distraction after distraction. None of it had any staying power. It meant nothing.

I've felt this rift widening as I approached thirty. Hence why I've lived light up to this point (Jan, 2020). I've been preparing to take some time off to learn a new skill. I need to find a way to actually contribute something of value to the market. I hate that I essentially hide for a living. I don't want squeak from job to job coasting on nothing but 'soft skills' for the rest of my life.


TODAY:

So here's where I am today.

I have 7 months left on my apartment lease (30% of income).

I can feel my current job slipping away. I'd be crazy to assume job security for longer than a two-week forward looking period. I work for a startup. Very early stage. Meaning a lot can go wrong. There isn't much margin for error, one of those errors being a sales guy drawing a base salary that isn't closing deals (luckily I have a bit of a buffer. The senior reps who were hired before me are pretty much in the same boat).

Anyway, it's a very unique product that to my knowledge has never been sold before. That sounds great until you try to convince someone that they need something that almost nobody else is using.

I've asked around and everybody is feeling the heat, so I don't think I'm being paranoid in entertaining the idea that my income could drop to zero tomorrow.

See why I want out of sales?

Anyway, I knew that this was going to be a tough role from the beginning. I didn't care when I received the offer back in November. All I knew was that I had a solid heads up that layoffs were on the way and I needed to make a move fast. This new gig was remote and it came with a nice pay bump, so I ignored the risk and jumped in. I figured if it went south, I'd at least have a couple months to work from home and clear my head before S*** hit the fan again.

Having said that, and having experience three months of working from home, I can now say that as long as I remain in a sales role my head will not clear.

MY PLAN:

This is my last "hoorah" in this city. I'm packing up and leaving this place in October. I plan to return home (as in living with my mom) and learning a skilled trade or medical. (Ideally I'd like to learn one of each. The local college has a one to two year wait for medical programs, which would be enough time to complete a basic trade certification.)

This move makes a lot of sense, but good god it is going to be tough. She needs help fixing up the house, plus I want to hang with her while she's still young and active. My dating life is going to plummet, though. That really sucks.

Which is why:

I'm not watching my finances too closely. I want to really dig in and get the last drop of fun here. I want to do this because I have a bad habit of lying to myself when I get lonely and reminisce about the good ole days. I only remember the highlights. I'm the guy who will pine over an ex who once admitted that she wished he died when he got into an auto accident (true story). I'll do the same thing with cities and jobs. I never remember the bad.

That's my mission right now. I need to beat this place out of me. I need to etch into my memory the traffic jams and the frat bro sales managers practicing their handshakes in the mirror and their bachelorettes puking on the corner at 2am.

That said, I am going to try to cut back and get my saving rate to 50% by the end of March. I can do that by cutting out bars from my life and getting rid of out of control subscriptions. For example, I pay $90/month for yoga. I can do that at home. Dumb. I also have a storage unit that costs me $90. If I just get rid of the junk in there I can chop that expense as well.


Job Goals:

I need something hands on that will hold my interest for at least five years.
Fast paced.
Not in front of a computer.
High future demand.
Minimal to moderate human interaction, or at least the option to reduce it. Night shift, for example.
$55k+ earning potential.
Training cost less than $20k
low damage to the body


Currently considering:

Nursing: Seems to meet the criteria above from what I've read. I'd hopefully be able to shave some time off the degree attainment time as it would be my second bachelors and I have a couple semester of prereqs completed. Or, I might go the 2 year degree route and get the BSN after getting some experience in the field. Can anyone advise on this strategy?

X-ray tech: Seems to fit the above criteria, however I do worry about the profession's future. This is pure speculation, but I wonder if innovation in imaging technology could disrupt this in the future. Anyone with experience have any ideas?

Trades: I'm open to suggestions!
I'm only considering skilled trades that I can leverage into a small business later on in life. I don't necessarily want to do a trade as an employee, because from what I've seen/heard those guys get worked to death for insanely low wages given the hell they put their bodies through. I would ideally like my primary income to come from a medical profession but I'd like to supplement it with skilled work on the side. Or projects.


Action Items:

Cancel yoga membership ($90)
Cancel storage unit ($90)
Quit going to bars (~$500)

Figure out a way to take the financial hit if you lose this job. Your lease is active until October. That's one hell of an expense that would take outa good chunk of my savings.

Ideas:
-Start applying to sales/customer service jobs just in case.

ertyu
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by ertyu »

Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:29 pm
I dread Monday to the point that I'm spending roughly $550 a month in bars to forget that 8AM is just around the corner.
No advice, just dropping by to say that this is me and I hear you. What seems to have happened with me is, at one point I couldn't handle it any longer and impulse-quit. Wishing you the best

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

ertyu wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:28 pm
No advice, just dropping by to say that this is me and I hear you. What seems to have happened with me is, at one point I couldn't handle it any longer and impulse-quit. Wishing you the best
Ahhh man I'm glad you dropped by. I remember reading your stuff right before I made an account. It definitely hit close to home. I've been fighting the urge to do the same. If I didn't have this apartment lease hanging over my head I'd probably already be camping in Zion.

User avatar
Lemur
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:40 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Lemur »

Trades: HVAC Technician, Plumber, or Home Inspector. All in demand, all can make over $55k a year, all can be done with your own business. Look into your states regulations for each. I almost went the home inspector route before I joined the corporate world back in 2016. I had the LLC set up, website, equipment, everything, etc. In some cases, a home inspector can be paid by a property management company to just check up on dormant rentals (like checking the smoking alarms, etc.) and pick up an easy $100 per rental.

As far as gratitude / depression goes...this article is timely:
https://news.osu.edu/gratitude-interven ... n-anxiety/

It seems you know what is causing your depression though. You've identified the cognitive dissonances and are taking action steps to tackle them. I applaud you! And you will be well on your way to the life you seek. Here is a list I keep on a notepad file whenever I'm feeling down...I often will go down this list and see what I can immediately tackle now to get a short-term improvement (though changing my environment would just make this easier...sometimes not doable).

– Good Nutrition [Avoid processed foods, eat more fruits/veggies, lean meats, fish, beans, legumes, caffeine before 12pm, ensure intake of Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Iron, Zinc, Calcium, and Omega-3s.]
– Fresh Air
– Sunshine [In moderation, for Vitamin D]
– Physical activity
– Purposeful activity with regular experiences of success
– Good relationships
– Adequate and regular sleep
– Ability to avoid destructive social entanglements, while remaining receptive to positive encounters *
- Quality Sleep

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

Awesome suggestions. Will check these out. Thanks Lemur!

Yeah the depression is definitely job-related. I've found that most of the stuff on your list helps get me through the day. Some of them are very tough for me, the sleep note in particular. Last night, for example, I couldn't fall asleep until about 2am. Then I woke up two hours later and I was unable to go back to sleep. Pain in the ass.

I'll check out the article you linked. 'Preciate it!

classical_Liberal
Posts: 1657
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by classical_Liberal »

Hey, nice first journal post!

Man, drinking at the bars to forget that tomorrow is coming... It's like you read the book of my late 20's. I figured I'd respond to some of your intro thread comments over here since you have a home now.
Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:19 am
Thanks for giving me the answer haha.
I was actually 33 when I officially went back to school for nursing. I bummed around for awhile. It took me 3.5 years to get the BSN, considering I had basically no biology or chemistry prereqs.
Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:19 am

It's interesting that you've had a similar experience with consumerism driven by a sales job.
Yeah. Given that I've hung around with social groups from many different socioeconomic backgrounds now, its fascinating how, who you run with, impacts how you think. Sales are some of the worst. The great thing is that you get to choose who your friends are, mostly. So I think transitioning to a low impact lifestyle, who you decide to hang around with is just as important as anything.
Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:19 am
How do you think an ENTP would do in nursing?
It can't be as bad a theoretical fit as ENTJ. Nursing is literally on every list of worst career types for my personality. I would say almost all nurses are ISFJ, ESFJ, and some ESTJ. Nursing managers are not used to dealing with people who question stuff, so I regularly butt heads, but have thus far kept it under control. You'd likely have similar problems.
Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:19 am
Also love the heads-up that I'll probably want to switch it up in 5 years. You already know me too well!
I've been nursing about 7 years now and I'm definitely nearing my end. Over the past 3-4 years I have taken steps to consciously try to extend my career. First ERE level saving to create a potential end point, then I started traveling to limit my exposure to the problems of any particular hospital or unit, then I stopped picking up OT, then I went straight nights, now down to 6 months of the year. The next step would proabably be either straight PRN, working only a couple days a month on average, or to try and get out of patient care completely. I'm hoping I can make the half time thing work for at least a couple of years.
Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:19 am
Or, I might go the 2 year degree route and get the BSN after getting some experience in the field. Can anyone advise on this strategy?
This totally depends on where you want to start working. Some geographic areas won't even look at new grad 2-yr nurses. In others they'll hire you, but want to you to commit to the BSN in short order. Others don't care, if you have a license and a pulse you're hired. They only way to know is to figure out the job market in the place you want to start at. Once you get a couple of years of experience, more always opens up and I've heard from friends that the RN to BSN is pretty easy to do while working FT.

FYI though. Nursing is a people job, you will have to interact. Also it's somewhat physical. It's certainly not laying concrete, but I come home pretty physically tired. It's also pretty fast paced if working in the hospital environment.

Edit:
One more thing to consider. Once in a nursing program of any kind, it's a 40 hours/week commitment for class time and clinicals. You go into it with a cohort and have very little choices as far as when you can take classes. This really surprised me. I had a business degree prior and that took maybe 20 hours a week with really flexible classes. This means any job you have while going to school will have to have flexibility for you to meet all the commitments. Just something to keep in mind as you decide what to do.

Frita
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Frita »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 pm
I would say almost all nurses are ISFJ, ESFJ, and some ESTJ. Nursing managers are not used to dealing with people who question stuff, so I regularly butt heads, but have thus far kept it under control.
Aha, when I taught uni years ago, I had a number of nursing majors in class. They pretty much wanted me to tell them what to do and how to think (They were also needy with my office hours.) It drove me crazy. If you do nursing in the school system, questioning is also an issue.

@c_L
Would becoming a nurse practitioner remove one from the headbutting dynamic? I know that is more education; however, it seems like a better fit for a N.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 1657
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by classical_Liberal »

Frita wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:47 pm
@c_L
Would becoming a nurse practitioner remove one from the headbutting dynamic? I know that is more education; however, it seems like a better fit for a N.
It could, depending on what you do with it. Specialty NP's basically end up a MD's assistant, but GP's, particularly in more rural areas, have more latitude. Sadly, it'd be 2-3 more years of expensive schooling, so not worth it in my situation. I'd rather put that extra effort into working with what I have and be totally FI. I turn 44 in a few months, so I do not think I will ever go back to school just to get a job.

Frita
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Frita »

@c_L
Returning to school for a job seems crazy past somewhere in our 30s, agreed (!). I wonder if the right nurse practitioner position could make nursing more appealing to smart, independent folks who don’t want to go the MD routine.

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

Weekly Update:


Work

Guess who has to fly into one of the busiest airports in the world next week? Yay, employment!

..... :x


This will be the strangest work trip I've ever experienced.

Along with that, he mentioned that he might want me to stay for the weekend to see a potential client or perhaps fly up the following week. I have PTO scheduled that week. Nothing like business travel during a pandemic on days you requested off months ago.

[Side note: one of my biggest fears is dying on a business trip. I once had a dream where I saw a guy get hit by a car during work traffic hours. He was wearing his little business suit and he carried a briefcase and a little sack lunch. He flipped over the car and his little brown lunch sack went sailing across four lanes of traffic. It busted open on the pavement and a green apple rolled down the street until it disappeared under a car.

I think about that f***ing apple and that pathetic little sack lunch all the time.]

My boss is one of those 1980s MBA "Big Idea" guys. We're usually dropping everything we're currently working on to execute whatever half baked idea he conjures up at any given time. Rarely do these idea move the needle in terms of revenue.

(one example that comes to mind is the time we all had to drop everything we were doing to hop on a conference call to discuss the website's color scheme)

It's like the guy lives in one of those business school group projects where you and three randomly assigned classmates with zero real world experience must carve out a wild guess of a solution for some perfectly sculpted hypothetical problem that only happens in college textbooks.

F***ing hell.

It's all just another reminder that I can't keep living like this. I'd rather be "broke" than continue to answer to self congratulatory f***s who coasted through life on their soft skills and managed to get lucky enough times to call themselves experts. I hardly see that as a sustainable lifestyle to emulate.

Dating

I've been seeing a new girl for about two months. We're headed in different directions in life. I need a town with low taxes and cheap COL. She needs exciting big city lights with high income taxes and unsustainable rent levels and trendy coffee shops (most likely paired with the gutter syringes and sidewalk poop). She's younger than me, so I try not to hold it against her. She hasn't had that glimmer stomped out yet. I think she's starting to get a taste of it though. Her company (I used to work there as well) just initiated a round of layoffs and according to her they are coming up with creative ways to screw sales folks out of their commissions. We had a pretty good conversation about starting over in life and finding the right path.

Not that I'm planning on converting her to my ERE beliefs. I've long ago accepted that frugality can significantly limit ones dating options. Most folks are just too plugged into the consumption machine.

Anyway, she's excited about life and all the people she has yet to meet in the future. It's a strange metric to me, because despite being categorized as an extrovert, I've always kept a pretty small circle.

That's a tough thing to come to terms with, and I wonder if some of you have experienced the same dilemma on your ERE journey. I can see this becoming somewhat isolating as most people bond by spending money in one way or another. Dates, vacations, happy hours, they all set me back on my goal to break free from an employer.

But then again, most folks see nothing wrong with employment. That's another things that's baffled me in dating. I've never dated a girl who hated her job. That is so foreign to me.

So, I'm trying to prepare myself for the isolation that is to come. I've led a pretty active dating life up to this point, but I see that window closing once I commit 100% to ERE in October (when my lease is up and I move home).

The potential loneliness scares the shit out me me, to be honest. But, it's better than being stuck here with plenty of dating options but no opportunity to leave the corporate world.

Finances

I cut the yoga membership, so that's an additional $90 saved monthly. So far I've only spent $45 in bars, so hopefully I can keep that under $100 for the month as well. That would be a huge turnaround for me.

I had a couple activities planned months ago that are going to overrun my "Fun" expense allotment of $300 for the month. I'll most likely only save about 15% this month despite cutting back on the bars.

I have a question for you guys (if anyone read this far lol).

Are any of you planning to invest in the markets after this dip levels out? I'm trying to resist the urge to catch a falling knife, but I don't even know what I'd buy. Any suggestions?

Pivot

I'm going to call my impending lifestyle shift the Pivot. I've taken the advice that you all have been kind enough to share and I'm researching the various trades and career options that have been mentioned.

Nursing is still in the forefront, however I'm in lifestyle limbo at the moment. I need to knock out a couple prereqs before I'm even eligible for consideration to join a Nursing program. I've thought about taking the prereqs while I'm stuck in this city waiting out my lease, but I'd have to pay out of state tuition (I think it's like 3x the price). Still weighing the pros and cons of that one.

I'm also looking for backup plan jobs. Anything that can float me another 7 months without forcing me to dip into my savings. I can't count on this job being around in a month. I'm trying to apply to one job a day to stave off the anxiety.

Action items:
Apply to a job a day
Cancel storage and get rid of stuff
Try to take this job seriously so getting fired isn't a self fulfilling prophecy. I think I can at least hang in there until the summer if I can just conjure up enough 'give a shit' to look busy. Heh, how's that for motivation?
Last edited by Hail_Diogenes on Fri May 29, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

ertyu
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by ertyu »

Hail_Diogenes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:35 am
I can see this becoming somewhat isolating as most people bond by spending money in one way or another. Dates, vacations, happy hours, they all set me back on my goal to break free from an employer.

So, I'm trying to prepare myself for the isolation that is to come.
Girls read profiles. You don't need girls, you need the right girl - and she is likely also hoping for someone she can save with. So write this in your profile: that you're working towards financial independence and saving, and that you are looking for someone to take to a picnic at [local scenic spot] rather than to a fancy restaurant. Let the girls self-select, and don't focus on how few women you think there are who will be interested in this. You don't need many, you need one. Focus on finding her and on being a decent partner to her.

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

From corporate drone to 30 year old boomerang kid

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

Welp, a lot has happened since my last update. Have you guys heard about some kind of virus or something?

:P

I noticed that my last post was whiney and hardly productive, so I decided to take a break until I had some actual updates to report. I started this journal because I would like to participate in the community. Complaining adds zero value to you, so I'll try not to do that... (though I probably will complain from time to time)

Updates since March:

FINANCIAL:

My plan is already in motion. Instead of waiting until October for my lease to end, I cancelled the lease. Quarantine made me pretty anxious, so I figured I should go ahead and take the hit now so I can be loosely coupled later. The penalty was one month's rent. Considering I got out 5 months early, I'll say it was worth it. I'm moving out next week.

I sold my motorcycle yesterday. That broke my heart, but it needed to be done. It was an expensive toy. Plus, I'm about to move. Without the motorcycle, everything I own can fit in my truck. That said, I plan to get another one soon because I think it's wise to own two forms of transportation. That way you can still get to work if one goes down (I buy used, so likely to happen). My truck is hitting the angry teenage years and it's been getting increasingly rebellious. I need a backup vehicle to offset its mood swings.

I finally told my girlfriend that I'm moving. At least for a little while. Who knows, I may move home and lose my mind after three months then return to this HCOL hell hole. I hardly think that's going to happen, but who knows.

DATING:

I'm not sure why I'm dragging this out with her. We plan to do long distance and I plan to drive up and visit her monthly. But deep down I know that it's going to be exhausting and will most likely come to an end. We both agreed on that. We're both okay with seeing where it goes. It was a surprisingly healthy conversation, which makes it even harder for some reason. It's easy to leave a toxic situation. Good ones are hard to find. That, and I've always been shitty with goodbyes.

OCCUPATIONAL:
I got so lucky with this one. All the prereq classes that I need are online due to covid. I managed to register for a full time course load at the community college back home. It's been fun so far. I missed learning new things.

ERE GOALS:

Big setback this month. My mom got into a car accident and the car was totaled. It was an old car, worth roughly $2k, so I only put liability on it. I bought her another car, which set me back a bit. So glad I cancelled the lease when I did. That will absorb some of the outflow.

Also spent $500 on parts for the old car. The engine is fine and the collision was at a low speed, but the strut is bent and the axle snapped. I'm going to try to fix it myself because I know it will get another 150k miles. It's not pretty anymore, but I'd be on the wrong forum if I worried about that :D

My truck is having issues with a part that they recalled. Unfortunately it's 12 years old, so no warranty. That parts cost $250 and I'll install it this weekend. SO glad I caught that. I've heard stories of dealers charging $1800 minimum for that particular job.



HEALTH/MINDSET:
I quit drinking. A little over 30 days ago. Feels great and I'm so much more productive in the evenings. There's no way I would have time to study for the classes, work on my stuff, and remain employed if I were still drinking nightly.


I'm still anxious about the market. I really need to sit down and learn about investing. I've improved my frugality, but I need to learn how to use the money saved.

To-Dos:
Start working out again.
Learn how to invest (such a noob, I know)
Move next week.
Fix truck
Study my ass off

ertyu
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by ertyu »

Sounds like a plan to me :)

Read what you wrote on my journal about quitting drinking, and, congrats dude. I know how much I'm struggling with lame shit like sugar, so it's really admirable to me that you managed to nip the nightly drinking habit in the bud. Strength to you, hope all goes well :)

Some other random thoughts:

(1). Complain. People who mind don't have to read, so you aren't hurting anyone. And if it helps you process, all the better. Plus, practicing with the divide between productive complaining (that results in you processing stuff) and unproductive complaining (which is just rumination) is likely to help you in life as a whole.

(2) If you don't see a long term future with gf, just break it off now. Some version of, "I know I said I wanted to try long distance, but I thought about it and deep down I know that it wouldn't work out for me. And you deserve to find someone who is present and invested in you as opposed to some dude who'll keep you in a lukewarm long distance relationship just because he's too much of a coward to break things off. Thank you for the good times and godspeed" should do it.

(3) that really sucks about your mom's car. Shit happens, hope you have a fun time fixing up the old one

Keeping my fingers crossed that you keep, little by little, getting your life in order. I'll definitely consider a 30-day sugar-free attempt, just unsure where to draw the line. Store-bought sweets are a no-brainer but I have the feeling I might also need to cut down on fruit, which I really love.

Vaikeasti
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Vaikeasti »

Just popping over to say I read you journal and it's helping me process stuff as well.

You seem to have a good motion on things. I wish you the best.

Good luck on your journey!

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

ertyu wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:40 pm
Sounds like a plan to me :)

Read what you wrote on my journal about quitting drinking, and, congrats dude. I know how much I'm struggling with lame shit like sugar, so it's really admirable to me that you managed to nip the nightly drinking habit in the bud. Strength to you, hope all goes well :)

Some other random thoughts:

(1). Complain. People who mind don't have to read, so you aren't hurting anyone. And if it helps you process, all the better. Plus, practicing with the divide between productive complaining (that results in you processing stuff) and unproductive complaining (which is just rumination) is likely to help you in life as a whole.

(2) If you don't see a long term future with gf, just break it off now. Some version of, "I know I said I wanted to try long distance, but I thought about it and deep down I know that it wouldn't work out for me. And you deserve to find someone who is present and invested in you as opposed to some dude who'll keep you in a lukewarm long distance relationship just because he's too much of a coward to break things off. Thank you for the good times and godspeed" should do it.

(3) that really sucks about your mom's car. Shit happens, hope you have a fun time fixing up the old one

Keeping my fingers crossed that you keep, little by little, getting your life in order. I'll definitely consider a 30-day sugar-free attempt, just unsure where to draw the line. Store-bought sweets are a no-brainer but I have the feeling I might also need to cut down on fruit, which I really love.



Thanks man! Unfortunately I slipped a couple times since your post. I've spent about $100 on alcohol since my last post, but I appreciate the kinds words. Hoping to get on another 30 day challenge this week. I need to check this more often to avoid slipping up. I think I would have been less likely to slip if I saw your post lol.

Also, really love the advice about just breaking it off with my girlfriend. We had that discussion, will post the details in my next journal entry. Regarding seeing a long term future with her, I think I need to post a question in the 'Relationships" forum. I'm really curious to see how open other EREers are about their ambitions. That's been a huge sticking point for me because I'm a very private person. I think it's an issue that a lot on this forum would understand, given the theme of the community and all.

Vaikeasti wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:07 pm
Just popping over to say I read you journal and it's helping me process stuff as well.

You seem to have a good motion on things. I wish you the best.

Good luck on your journey!

Thanks for checking it out!I hope my whining didn't scare you off :p. I also checked out your journal as well. you definitely make me feel lame for complaining about my problems. I love that you keep pushing forward and you seem to keep your cool under the pressure of your responsibilities. I'm hopping to reach that kind of level-headedness (sp) eventually.

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Y'all dare me to be homeless?

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

Soooo.... I took a step forward and... just kinda stayed put.

The 30% rent expense is no more. I moved out of the apartment earlier this month and I've been... god I don't even want to finish that sentence.

Fuck it.

I've been crashing with my girlfriend >.<

We became pretty close over the past 5 months. Quarantine helped us grow together a lot faster than we would have under normal circumstances. Dead honest, this is clouding my judgement.

After reading Ertyu's response to my last post, I decided to quit being a bitch and just be up front with her. I told her that the future is too uncertain and this city is too expensive for me to comfortably sign a year long commitment to another apartment. I told her that I've grown jaded with my career and this city (she already knew that), and I told her that if I stayed here she would be the only reason that I would do so (She didn't know that). I also told her that I'd like to help my mom out and I would need to go home to do so. She understood. She asked me to stay a week with her before I left. You know the rest of that story.

I have to stop here to add a bit about my dating background,that way you'll know where I'm coming from. I've had a lot of fun and a couple long-term relationships in the past. I mention this because I don't want you to think that my rationale stems from desperation. I think it's quite the opposite. I think I've seen too much of what's out there. There are a ton of cool people, but not many that I would consider long term life partners. Hell, even solid friends are tough to find.

So now that you know that, here's the rest of the situation:

I've been thinking that maybe I was wrong about her. Maybe I didn't give her enough credit. And I think some of that might have been my own bias about ERE influencing my assessment.

I always saw this as a solo game. I'm a child of divorce. I know what that can do to your finances, and I also know that you have zero control over two big bags of hormones (you and your partner) so I've kinda trained myself to just embrace going it alone.

After poking around on this forum and reading some other journals I've seen that this game can be a lot more fun if it's shared with a partner.

And I'm wondering if it's me or my hormones doing the thinking. I'm wondering why I had such a sense of urgency to leave this city. Quarantine definitely had something to do with it.

So now that quarantine is over, my apartment expense is gone, and my classes are remote, I'm thinking about trying to have my cake and eat it too.

I really want to see where things go with her. I really want to go home and spend time with my mom. I really... really... really... fucking hate the idea of signing another lease on an apartment.



So.....


I'm thinking about turning my truck into a mobile apartment - split my time between here and home. Hang with her for two weeks, drive 9 hours and hang with mom for two weeks. I can shower and sleep in a real bed at either places, then break up the time by sleeping in the truck periodically so I don't drive anyone crazy. Rinse repeat until we either break up or decide on... I dunno... we can cross that bridge when we get there.

It would cost me about $1500-$2000, which if I compare it to the average rent in this city, it would pay for itself if I sleep in it for 30 days.

Part of me wants to see if I can take it. Might as well live a little weird while my back is young and healthy enough to handle a truck mattress.

I also have a chip on my shoulder about leasing that expensive condo. That was a dumb choice, but I can make it right by sleeping in a truck for the rest of the year. That would cut my 2020 rent spending down to 13%.


KEY TAKEAWAY FROM THIS EXPERIENCE:

Piece of mind is worth any inconvenience.

I feel so much better than I did in my last two posts. Here's the thing, only ONE thing has changed. I'm no longer chained to that expensive fucking apartment.

I'm still convinced that I'll be laid off any day now.
Nobody know wtf the stock market is doing.
Job prospects are complete shit and I'll likely be unemployed for a while if I'm cut.
My girlfriend and I have lived in a quarantine bubble for the past 4 months. Things could go to complete shit after things normalize and people want to party again (I'm dreading the day I have to sit through dinner with her friends bar hop after... ugh.)

There's an even longer list of headaches for me to deal with when I go home to help my mom.

Oh, and that whole covid thing.

But... I'm not stuck. And that feels so so so good. I can't even imagine what it feels like to multiply this feeling by having complete financial freedom.


ERE Notes:
I finally sat down and did the math. I'm @ 6x annual spend. I should have 7x by the end of the year. Maybe 8x if I can avoid a rent expense and remain employed.

I'm still pissing away gains because I'm 85% cash, but I'm so afraid to buy in right now. I know it's dumb to time the market but...

AxelHeyst
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Location: The Mountains, USA

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by AxelHeyst »

Do the #trucklife thing. Doooo it. :D

Worst case, you hate it and get an apartment/live with mom/gf, and have a sweet car camping setup.
And even if you only do it for a little bit, it'll be a great experience from the Stoic perspective of knowing from experience what the worst case is (if worst case = jobless, broke, have to live in vehicle). Eh, been there done that, no big deal.

What part of the country are you in? How do you figure $1.5-2k?

New to ERE is a fragile time in terms of sticking to it. New relationship is a fragile time in terms of sticking to your authentic self while balancing healthy compromises with your partner. Playing both games at the same time is no easy thing. Then just throw on c19 and economic instability for fun... I think the more you can take a "what the hell, I'm going to do my best but everything's crazy so the main thing is to enjoy it all", the better.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 1657
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by classical_Liberal »

I second the truck idea, I think that'd be really fun and mix things up too. From an ERE standpoint, there's no better way to see what you can live without, than by living in a small vehicle.

Also, I think anytime someone finds a potential long term partner, it's worth some risk. In my life I've found that these people don't come along too often, and for it to work both people have to be in the right place in their lives to give it a real go. Which makes it even harder to find a good match. At the same time, be wary to not give up your long term goals for something you know won't work.

Hail_Diogenes
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by Hail_Diogenes »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:18 pm
Do the #trucklife thing. Doooo it. :D

Worst case, you hate it and get an apartment/live with mom/gf, and have a sweet car camping setup.
And even if you only do it for a little bit, it'll be a great experience from the Stoic perspective of knowing from experience what the worst case is (if worst case = jobless, broke, have to live in vehicle). Eh, been there done that, no big deal.

What part of the country are you in? How do you figure $1.5-2k?

New to ERE is a fragile time in terms of sticking to it. New relationship is a fragile time in terms of sticking to your authentic self while balancing healthy compromises with your partner. Playing both games at the same time is no easy thing. Then just throw on c19 and economic instability for fun... I think the more you can take a "what the hell, I'm going to do my best but everything's crazy so the main thing is to enjoy it all", the better.
Oh man. The more I read your journal, the more I know I have to do this. The $1500-2000 estimate is for a very basic shell and a mattress. I won't be full timing yet so I don't think I'll be building anything elaborate. But then again, you kind of make me want to go all in haha. My only concern with a trailer type setup would be parking in the city. This place is a nightmare with the truck alone. I couldn't imagine backing a trailer into a spot, much less finding a big enough opening.

Decisions decisions.

Man, you get it. That's exactly the mindset that I'm trying to build. I want to be able to shrug it off if shtf. Plus I think it will give me a place with minimal distractions. I have a bit of an internet addiction. It's easy to feed the beast right now because I have a fast PC and a nice big monitor. No room for that in the truck... unless I follow in your footsteps :lol:
classical_Liberal wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm
I second the truck idea, I think that'd be really fun and mix things up too. From an ERE standpoint, there's no better way to see what you can live without, than by living in a small vehicle.

Also, I think anytime someone finds a potential long term partner, it's worth some risk. In my life I've found that these people don't come along too often, and for it to work both people have to be in the right place in their lives to give it a real go. Which makes it even harder to find a good match. At the same time, be wary to not give up your long term goals for something you know won't work.

Boooooooom babayyyyy


That settles it. If C_L endorses the move then it shall be.

By the way, I'm knocking out my prereqs online right now. I'll have to make up a few labs when things go back to normal, but otherwise things are moving along. Man, it's funny how the easy classes still suck when you're working full time. I thought it'd be a piece of cake since they are freshmen level classes, but it's been a pain in the ass.

Regarding the part about finding a potential long term partner - at what point in a relationship do you typically bring up your ERE goals? This is something that i struggle to share. If anything, I've done the exact opposite. I intentionally downplay my earnings/holdings. I wish I could explain why I do it. Maybe I'm paranoid.

AxelHeyst
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Location: The Mountains, USA

Re: From corporate drone to renaissance man

Post by AxelHeyst »

A trailer would be a terrible idea if cities figure in to your plans at all, in my experience. I avoided cities like the plague even *before* they were literally full of the plague.

I get you on the internet addiction thing. Honestly, one of the reasons I like to boondock way out in the woods is because I'm a better person when I don't have an internet connection. My lifestyle is deliberately designed to make accessing the internet a pain in the ass.

Regarding the partner issue, I got the partner before I got in to ERE, so bear that in mind. But I think a dynamic you'll hear related here more often than not is that it's best to communicate through actions and example, rather than words. Because this shit sounds insane to people who haven't drunk the kool aid or aren't already on the cusp of it making sense to them. If you just go from "normal" to rambling about living on 1 jafi, renaissance ideals, ascending the wheaton levels, and loosely-coupled homeotelic web of goals, they're going to think you're nuts.

So my recommendation (that I try to follow in my own life) is to really go easy on the insider jargon, and speak more about the desired outcomes. So, instead of talking about living off of $80/mo food, talk about goals of freedom and what you want to do with it. Talk about the peace of mind implied by having FU money. For my partner, talking about the ecological/sustainable angle of low consumption is very compelling. Go heavier on the Why and the Vision and lighter on the How, at least for now. Being a person who rejects status quo norms and is an independent thinker to try to improve his own station in the world ought to be attractive to just about anyone, so focus on that story and less on the "I'm a participant in a fringe mostly-anonymous internet community led by a rogue danish astrophysicist based on a systems-theory critique of modern economic relations" angle.

A renaissance man is another way of saying "I'm competent at stuff; I can handle just about anything; stick with me, things'll be okay; I can fix it", which, if you and your partner are anywhere close to heteronormative and you're not insufferable about it, that ought to be a huge turn-on.

Something I do is associate negative aspects of my interaction with my partner with pre-ERE (e.g. I don't have enough time to spend with you right now because of my job) and positive things with ERE (my FU stash has given me peace of mind and that's why I'm relaxed and present with you right now; hey let's plan a fun trip that'll I'll be able to go on in the future because ERE; etc). These aren't deceptions at all, but they're certainly carefully chosen stories that relate my choices to good things for us. And if you telegraph that this is a Big Deal, she'll pick up on that. If you telegraph that this is no big deal, just part of how you approach life, she'll pick up on that too.

You don't need to disclose your net worth statements. You can make qualitative, rather than quantitative, statements. "I have N years expenses saved up".

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