That was a very Ti thing to say. The counter narrative is, 'It is not the unknowns that get us in trouble, it is the knowns that are just not so" or something like that.
I do not know if anyone can tell but this is me tipsy.
Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Bouncing off what jacob said, Se PoLR(*) is actually the main factor for why I can tune out external sensory information well. Yet, I also think that Ti plays a role because my dad(**) can do this to a lesser extent with Ti secondary (but much better than my mom with Ti PoLR). This could also just be a traditional gender role thing. My mom is very feminine and my dad is very masculine.
(*) Point of least resistance.
(**) Though, I do not actually spend much time with him.
(*) Point of least resistance.
(**) Though, I do not actually spend much time with him.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
An analogy I thought of today is Ti is like a system of pipes and Ne is like the fluid flowing through them, does this seem accurate?
I also will never forget the time I tripped with my cousin. Do you have any thoughts on the heritability of cognitive functions?
Edit: Post #1 on account attempt 3
I also will never forget the time I tripped with my cousin. Do you have any thoughts on the heritability of cognitive functions?
Edit: Post #1 on account attempt 3
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Hey sid. 
That is sort of the same thing as what I said before where nodes or vertices are introverted functions (static like pipes) and edges are extroverted functions (dynamic like flows). Essentially the same, but the more analogies the better for pedagogy.
The heritability of cognitive functions in many cases is chaotic and has low predictive ability, but in the aggregate (for a linage across a few generations) there does appear to be a clear majority. In our family for instance, alpha quadra is dominate (Ti-Fe,Si-Ne) which is why there is never any drama or tension at family traditions and everyone just tells stories. Our grandpa (ISFJ) is closer to both of our personalities than my dad is to me(*). So, traits skipping generations is common.
On my mom's side, Fi-Te is dominate (I am an outlier here) and there is a split across delta and gamma quadras.
Though, I have not done any extensive research on this and all I have is a small pool of anecdotal data. May be able to do a more thourogh analysis tomorrow when sober.
(*) Does not seem to be the case for your dad and you but you would know better than me?
That is sort of the same thing as what I said before where nodes or vertices are introverted functions (static like pipes) and edges are extroverted functions (dynamic like flows). Essentially the same, but the more analogies the better for pedagogy.
The heritability of cognitive functions in many cases is chaotic and has low predictive ability, but in the aggregate (for a linage across a few generations) there does appear to be a clear majority. In our family for instance, alpha quadra is dominate (Ti-Fe,Si-Ne) which is why there is never any drama or tension at family traditions and everyone just tells stories. Our grandpa (ISFJ) is closer to both of our personalities than my dad is to me(*). So, traits skipping generations is common.
On my mom's side, Fi-Te is dominate (I am an outlier here) and there is a split across delta and gamma quadras.
Though, I have not done any extensive research on this and all I have is a small pool of anecdotal data. May be able to do a more thourogh analysis tomorrow when sober.
(*) Does not seem to be the case for your dad and you but you would know better than me?
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Here is my family tree. I have already done much of the leg work on this so putting it all together was quick. Top is dad's side and bottom is mom's side. Sid and I collaborated on top, and I am fairly confident about it except for a couple entries. ESFJ dominates the top and ISFP the bottom.
Not sure about gpa on mom's side, because I only met him once (was an alcoholic). My grandaunt (the ISTP) was my sitter for many years and probably understood me the best in my early years (shared Ti).
I have some more grandaunt's and granduncle's to do, but I need a bit more information.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
One of the isfp's under the istp is probably an esfp actually. Also, not as sure about intj (lives in cali) or my stepsister (the isfj) because she is so young.
My isfp uncle (social worker) on mom's side thinks I am schizoid.
My isfp uncle (social worker) on mom's side thinks I am schizoid.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Yeah, I can and do hyper-focus. When my kids were very young, they devised tricks to break me out of it. For instance, they discovered that if they called me something like "Mr. Magoo" instead of "Mom", I would look up from my book. Of course, I was always subconsciously running background check for anything truly needful of my attention going on.
On a few occasions, when I have been under extreme emotional stress, I have actually so severely lost touch with Se that I have found myself doing odd things in public, such as unconsciously running my hands over the texture of a wallpaper pattern in a hospital. I am also infamous for driving in circles repeatedly when under stress.
On a few occasions, when I have been under extreme emotional stress, I have actually so severely lost touch with Se that I have found myself doing odd things in public, such as unconsciously running my hands over the texture of a wallpaper pattern in a hospital. I am also infamous for driving in circles repeatedly when under stress.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Try pacing back and forth across the room. Much cheaper and provides light exercise.
------------------
I was thinking before that the most likely path into tech would be data analysis, but I think this is a bit foolish based on my lifestyle goals. Targeting full-stack development now instead. I am fairly comfortable with python, so learning javascript should not be that hard. I am also familiar with *nix, the command line, git, vim, inkscape, some SQL, and various other stuff. Web development is more flexible for employment and could allow freelancing. For learning web development, I will still work on coding puzzles to strengthen core CS skills. Also need to start doing research to figure out the best plan of action. Perhaps I will build a website focused on personality typing with diagrams and stuff.
My spending is already around one jacob since I am splitting rent with my mom(*). I cook from scratch and hardly buy anything else besides the occasional book or tool. I still have student loans so paying these off is a priority. Other than that, I am set lifestyle wise.
(*) She actually does not want me to move away given that she is single, and I help her with all kinds of side tasks. When I left for the teaching job she got a bit depressed. We are really close friends at this point.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Open question: Is it better to have a single website hosting all my personal projects? .. or a portfolio website linking to several project sites? .. or start with first and see what happens?
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Probably the latter. I woke up with an Ni vision today!
If I can establish a foothold in freelancing as a full-stack developer, then I could hire my mom part-time to help with graphics design and miscellaneous business tasks. She would be more than capable of this and would much prefer this type of work to what she does now (even has a graphics design degree). This would help us carve out more of a niche. Also, I may be able to use some of my family connections to construct a referral web.
If I can establish a foothold in freelancing as a full-stack developer, then I could hire my mom part-time to help with graphics design and miscellaneous business tasks. She would be more than capable of this and would much prefer this type of work to what she does now (even has a graphics design degree). This would help us carve out more of a niche. Also, I may be able to use some of my family connections to construct a referral web.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Solid point. I was thinking it may be worth it for the flexibility she would have (could do more gardening or something), but this is probably a couple years off so anything could happen. My mom is probably the second most adaptable type (esfp)(*), so I am confident she will be able to pick up another gig if need be.
We will likely get a very modest house at some point that my grandma will help us with. Real estate is quite reasonable in Kansas. Lawrence is a bit more expensive than anywhere else because of KU, but there are quite a few options for buying in older parts of town that may require some fixing (I would like to learn anyway).
(*) The first being my dad's type (estp). Combined they have done like 50 different things ranging from banking to management to design to tech and beyond.
We will likely get a very modest house at some point that my grandma will help us with. Real estate is quite reasonable in Kansas. Lawrence is a bit more expensive than anywhere else because of KU, but there are quite a few options for buying in older parts of town that may require some fixing (I would like to learn anyway).
(*) The first being my dad's type (estp). Combined they have done like 50 different things ranging from banking to management to design to tech and beyond.
Last edited by daylen on Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Having Ne second, I tend to just see a bunch of different shallow possibilities that all seem equally probable. This leads me to have like ten backup plans at any given time with no single path taking the spotlight, but I am trying to use Ni more to target the most likely path forward then use Ne for contingency planning. Before this was very hard given that I did not really know much about myself (Si) or reality (Se). Recently, I have been gaining more confidence with this or at least know enough now to know what I do not know.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Anxiety is a tricky subject. Described as 'mental discomfort', the existence of which is rarely doubted. Akin to pain except that pain often follows external stimuli. Claiming to be in pain without obvious external stimuli is called 'fibromyalga' and affects millions of people each year.
The cause of anxiety can typically be attributed to high-stress environments or anticipation of failure. This is not always the case and in certain situations a positive feedback of anxiety leads to what might be called a 'panic attack' where anxiety causes anxiety causing more anxiety .. This unstable state must terminate eventually but during an episode the brain cannot associate with the DMN or hippocampus(*). This dissociation is immediately followed by a period of intense introspection that attempts to link the context. Thereafter, any resembling context may trigger a recurring episode of dissociation.
No, I did not have a panic attack recently, but I saw someone who did and it made me curious about the nature of anxiety and its relationship with various aspects of cognition. I have said in the past that I am unsure about how my anxiety levels can be compared to others, just as I am unsure about how my pain levels can be compared to others. My first reaction to pain is to ignore it, so what if my first reaction to anxiety has always been to ignore it. Why does it appear that others loose control of their pain and anxiety as it happens? Does this have to do with frequency or intensity? Is this more of a social reaction? Is it simply a matter of familiarity?
After hearing others describe their anxiety and witnessing them attempt to establish the contextual link, I cannot help but think that what they are going through is 'common' and 'minor'. What does this tell me about myself? Is anxiety just a normal state or rather background state that feeds my Ti? I have heard someone describe INTP's as a paradox of anxiety and confidence, and I was not entirely sure I understood what they meant until now.
Perhaps I should think more about the purposes of anxiety as opposed to its causes. Obviously, I am familiar with the evolutionary advantage of anticipation, but what if there is a more layered and complex explanation relating to the development of internal Hegelian dialects that overcome recurring conflicts or inconsistencies. Anxiety builds up from incoming data streams until the mind either transforms or is corrupted. Can mental 'disorders' simply be thought of as corruptions induced from attempting to hold on to apparently ordered narratives of reality? This corrupt state stagnates an agent as new information replaces old information within the same structure. Eventually leading to a structure fitted with information that minimizes anxiety. Agents can get stuck in these local minimums and resist the development of more complex internal structure.
(*) Hence the state I described during my acid trip immediately followed moments of the dissociation I was attempting to link.
TL;DR Just a rant on anxiety and agency.
The cause of anxiety can typically be attributed to high-stress environments or anticipation of failure. This is not always the case and in certain situations a positive feedback of anxiety leads to what might be called a 'panic attack' where anxiety causes anxiety causing more anxiety .. This unstable state must terminate eventually but during an episode the brain cannot associate with the DMN or hippocampus(*). This dissociation is immediately followed by a period of intense introspection that attempts to link the context. Thereafter, any resembling context may trigger a recurring episode of dissociation.
No, I did not have a panic attack recently, but I saw someone who did and it made me curious about the nature of anxiety and its relationship with various aspects of cognition. I have said in the past that I am unsure about how my anxiety levels can be compared to others, just as I am unsure about how my pain levels can be compared to others. My first reaction to pain is to ignore it, so what if my first reaction to anxiety has always been to ignore it. Why does it appear that others loose control of their pain and anxiety as it happens? Does this have to do with frequency or intensity? Is this more of a social reaction? Is it simply a matter of familiarity?
After hearing others describe their anxiety and witnessing them attempt to establish the contextual link, I cannot help but think that what they are going through is 'common' and 'minor'. What does this tell me about myself? Is anxiety just a normal state or rather background state that feeds my Ti? I have heard someone describe INTP's as a paradox of anxiety and confidence, and I was not entirely sure I understood what they meant until now.
Perhaps I should think more about the purposes of anxiety as opposed to its causes. Obviously, I am familiar with the evolutionary advantage of anticipation, but what if there is a more layered and complex explanation relating to the development of internal Hegelian dialects that overcome recurring conflicts or inconsistencies. Anxiety builds up from incoming data streams until the mind either transforms or is corrupted. Can mental 'disorders' simply be thought of as corruptions induced from attempting to hold on to apparently ordered narratives of reality? This corrupt state stagnates an agent as new information replaces old information within the same structure. Eventually leading to a structure fitted with information that minimizes anxiety. Agents can get stuck in these local minimums and resist the development of more complex internal structure.
(*) Hence the state I described during my acid trip immediately followed moments of the dissociation I was attempting to link.
TL;DR Just a rant on anxiety and agency.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Yesterday, I had a busy social life. One of my top ten most social days.
Had lunch with an ISFJ and my mom. The ISFJ is just finishing up with a phd in history with a focus on the impact of perishable resources [including milk] in the western world. We talked about social capital, peak resources, modern employment, technology, future collapse, stress of graduate school, university corruption, postmodernism, misinformation, teaching, etc.
Then had a gathering with my dad's side of the family. I tend not to talk and just soak up information unless prompted, but my next oldest cousin (I am the oldest, then sid) brought up personality..... oh boy. Once my Ne-Fe loop is engaged there is no telling where the conversation will end up. Anyway, turns out he took the test and came up ESFJ and was amazed that I guessed his type (correcting for Fe-dom exaggeration). My cousin, our uncle (civil engineer, ENTJ), and I discussed lots of psychology, philosophy, some mathematics, brain disorders, and so forth.
Talking with SFJ's is so easy, because they are continuously engaged and giving off lots of facial information about their inner state. One thing I probably should have done better is include more information about the underlying neuroscience for the ENTJ. Also, I still need to work on timing my pauses in case someone else wants to interject anecdotes, comments, or questions. I have gotten much better at this over the last two years but can still improve. Anyway, my cousin asked for more information on the topic, so I texted him some resources to get started. I also talked briefly with him about cognitive development targeted at his type.
Had lunch with an ISFJ and my mom. The ISFJ is just finishing up with a phd in history with a focus on the impact of perishable resources [including milk] in the western world. We talked about social capital, peak resources, modern employment, technology, future collapse, stress of graduate school, university corruption, postmodernism, misinformation, teaching, etc.
Then had a gathering with my dad's side of the family. I tend not to talk and just soak up information unless prompted, but my next oldest cousin (I am the oldest, then sid) brought up personality..... oh boy. Once my Ne-Fe loop is engaged there is no telling where the conversation will end up. Anyway, turns out he took the test and came up ESFJ and was amazed that I guessed his type (correcting for Fe-dom exaggeration). My cousin, our uncle (civil engineer, ENTJ), and I discussed lots of psychology, philosophy, some mathematics, brain disorders, and so forth.
Talking with SFJ's is so easy, because they are continuously engaged and giving off lots of facial information about their inner state. One thing I probably should have done better is include more information about the underlying neuroscience for the ENTJ. Also, I still need to work on timing my pauses in case someone else wants to interject anecdotes, comments, or questions. I have gotten much better at this over the last two years but can still improve. Anyway, my cousin asked for more information on the topic, so I texted him some resources to get started. I also talked briefly with him about cognitive development targeted at his type.
Last edited by daylen on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
After sleeping on my conversations I cannot help but think of all the things I could have said or said differently (not as a regret but as a learning aid for the future). For instance, when discussing how to distinguish the Si for Ni, I could have talked about project starts and follow-through which are more instinctual and sub-conscious to me but useful for beginners.
We were able to establish a baseline for future interaction so this is the main thing.
We were able to establish a baseline for future interaction so this is the main thing.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Another way I thought of to distinguish Ni/Si is that Si is over-fitting and Ni is under-fitting environmental data (akin to my previous comments on particularism versus universalism). I gave my uncle a test for Si and it was somewhat borderline, but I did not want to go too far down that path to gather a larger sample given the situation. The test is simply to ask them to describe an event from last week, then see if the event is a recurring pattern or referencing a particular detail. My uncle said something along the lines of "my son kicked a ball around a teammate and it hit the goal post" (soccer), and this sounds like it could be either but probably a leans a bit towards Ni (recurring pattern) especially because his recall was quick (this is another thing I probably should have mentioned).
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
I also have some updates on the family tree type diagram. Two things I learned that made a big difference is the ENTJ cousin likes to take math tests for fun.. indicating strong Te-Si preference for his age (around 13 or 14) as opposed to Te-Ni. Also, his dad said that he is typically more withdrawn and less talkative with strangers, hence my best guess is ISTJ with a fairly high IQ given that he can solve combinatorics problems that would leave most adults paralyzed (not saying much but still impressive).
Also, the ISFP dad and cousin are probably ISFJ now that I recall more about their nuclear family dynamics. They are quite introverted, so I was leaning more towards ISFP based on a vague Fe judgement.
Also, the ISFP dad and cousin are probably ISFJ now that I recall more about their nuclear family dynamics. They are quite introverted, so I was leaning more towards ISFP based on a vague Fe judgement.
Last edited by daylen on Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
The cult grows. It was with the stages of moral development that you got me.
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Do you think you have enough types of related people to find possible correlations?
Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump
Not with much confidence. There needs to be more generations represented. 2+ trees each with 4+ generations and 50+ people in each tree would be a good place to start but that is going to be tough. We probably need to cross-correlate with other data sets generated by different typists.