Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Attentional Orders

..because there are not enough labels being thrown around for this confusing subject already. Just so happens to be one of those topics where you must reinvent it in your own flavor to fully grasp its universality, paradoxically... but not really.... but if I point you in any direction... then that pointer will have come from somewhere.... so... ;)

Included in this aggregate: Russell's Logical Types($), Bateson's Learning levels(*), Yudkowsky's Inference Levels(#), and Jacob's own spin(&)

See Kegan for a more social flavor: viewtopic.php?p=168588#p168588

($) Mathematical Logic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica ... I have not read.
(*) Cybernetics: https://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/1198/1/fulltext.pdf ... Great read.
(#) Decision Theory: https://www.amazon.com/Map-Territory-Ra ... 1939311233 ... Cannot find what I am looking for... he really should have made an index.
(&) Cybernetics: viewtopic.php?p=178280#p178280 ... An ex-physicist reminding a young philosopher reality is a thing.

0:
  • Bateson: …is characterized by specificity of response, which - right or wrong - is not subject to correction.
  • Jacob: Being able to respond.
Attention0 or A0: Attention is memory-less. From an external perspective, the agent appears to be responding yet from an internal perspective the agent cannot tell if focus is any different from its surroundings.

-> A0 ->

1:
  • Bateson: …is change in specificity of response by correction of errors of choice within a set of alternatives.
  • Jacob: Being able to modify response (acting on feedback)
A1: Attention to attention. A0 is now an object coupled to background attention. A1 forms subjective associations to A0. These associations allow A1 to anticipate alternative A0 paths but it cannot yet understand how it selected a particular path (it just can).

From an external perspective this can appear in operant conditioning and is strongly associated with behaviorism:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviorism

A1 -> A0

2:
  • Bateson: …is change in the process of Learning I, e.g. a corrective change in the set of alternatives from which choice is made, or it is a change in how the sequence of experience is punctuated.
  • Jacob: Being able to modify the feedback based on response (this is called training)
A2: Attention to attention to attention. A1 is now an object coupled to background attention. The path A1 chooses for A0 is now understood by A2. A2 is able to select how A1 selects A0 paths without understanding how it does this.

Can be observed in a curricular or corporate setting whereby there are hidden rules to success. There may be a syllabus that encodes these rules, but the expectation of the setting is that you must derive your own [A1] conditions for success. Associated with most of cognitive psychology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_psychology

A2 -> (A1 -> A0)

3:
  • Bateson: …is change in the process of Learning II, e.g. a corrective change in the system of sets of alternatives from which choice is made.
  • Jacob: Being able to modify training based on feedback (this is called learning)
A3: Attention to attention to attention to attention. A2 is now an object coupled to background attention. The path A2 allows A1 to choose for A0 is now understood by A3. A3 is able to select how A2 selects how A1 selects A0 paths without understanding how it does this.

This can be found in PhD programs or within an entrepreneurial setting where the curriculum is dropped and students are simultaneously expected to do research and to be teachers of their own curriculum. The implications of teaching are not fully comprehended and research is not truly original. Roughly associated with metacognition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition

A3 -> (A2 -> (A1 -> A0))

4:
  • Bateson: …would be change in Learning III, but probably does not occur in any adult living organism on this earth.
  • Jacob: Being able to modify learning based on feedback (this doesn't really have a name, but is usually referred to as paradigm-shifting, mind blowing, meta-cognition, ...)
A4: Attention to attention to attention to attention to attention. A3 is now an object coupled to background attention. The path A3 allows A2 to allow A1 to choose for A0 is now understood by A4. A4 is able to select how A3 selects how A2 selects how A1 selects A0 paths without understanding how it does this.

Teaching is now fully objective and the implications are comprehended. Not only can A4 optimize their curriculum but they can do so for the purpose of creating a paradigm-shifting context. Not only transforming their students but themselves in the process. Capable of truly original research. See paradigm shifts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

A4 -> (A3 -> (A2 -> (A1 -> A0)))

5:
  • Jacob: Being able to modify that based on feedback (this doesn't even have a reference; we can call it meta squared, but that doesn't really tell us anything).
A5: Attention to attention to attention to attention to attention to attention: A4 is now an object coupled to background attention. The path A4 allows A3 to allow A2 to allow A1 to choose for A0 is now understood by A5. A5 is able to select how A4 selects how A3 selects how A2 selects how A1 selects A0 paths without understanding how it does this.

What would this mean? All such paradigms would be objects, and the subject could choose where and when to establish a particular paradigm. For what purpose would be incomprehensible. Time would be completely non-linear: cycles upon cycles upon cycles..

A5 -> (A4 -> (A3 -> (A2 -> (A1 -> A0))))


As you can see, at 4, Bateson believed this level unlikely in humans whereas Jacob associated it with a few [uncommon] labels. It appears metacognition in the literature tends to reference 3, whereas references to 4 are rare. Anyway, I encourage you find your own system and/or help describe existing systems.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Some interesting developments being made with cognitive diagrams. To see how these compare with my initial constructions see this thread: viewtopic.php?p=186850#p186850

Resources in this new interpretation are just replicators of the zeroth order (R0)(%). Existing externally to any agent (not in C0). As the orders increase, replicators become more and more repressed into an agent's unconscious. R1 corresponds to replicators within an agent's consciousness whereas R2 corresponds to replicators within one level of activity(*) and so forth for R3, R4, ...

(%) Or replace all R's with P's to be consistent with a post I made previously. R's and P's will be exchangeable from now on.

(*) An activity is driven by at least one unconscious replicator.

Resources/replicators are represented by points and are attended to via sensation and intuition. Activities/judgements are represented by non-agent circles (i.e. C1, C2, ..) and are conducive of attention via thinking and feeling. One thing to keep in mind is an apparent superposition of interpretation whereby a C1 instance is brought outside of C0; this could either mean that C1 is a new agent from an objective standpoint (i.e. to the artist) or that C1 is an apparent agent from the perspective of C0 instances. Either way this is fine given that two agents may exchange (i.e. teach/learn) activities/judgements via formal systems that may as well be modeled as agents so long as the ethical implications are not taken out of hand.

If you look at just the first two functions of each type and ignore direction, then you can see that NT's, NF's, ST's and SF's all share the same diagram. Interestingly, I showed these to my ESFP mom and without describing what they meant she could intuitively point out which fictional characters matched to each diagram accurately. Especially after I cleared up a few misconceptions (e.g. NF's are not necessarily narcissistic even though their focus is primarily within).

The grid like diagram with a single occupied square appears to be decoupled from the other diagrams though there is another diagram which provides a connection. The squares in this master grid represent all the major cities and each city can be split into games or organizational partitions where agents interact according to their internal strategy (i.e. activity/judgement/goal webs).

There also exist an interesting connection with cognitive-developmental theories whereby R0's and R1's are slowly converted into higher-order replicators by encapsulating clusters of them into activities thereby transitioning them into unconscious action (i.e. the subject assimilates objects until the subject itself become a single object at the next order - such that previous objects are now hidden behind an activity/judgement barrier). Lining up with Kegan's diagrams in "In Over Our Heads".

I would like to look more into how these diagrams can be used to set up interesting game theoretic scenarios of incomplete information. I suspect that these developments will help agents form a visually intuitive backbone to this subject.
Last edited by daylen on Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:04 am, edited 4 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

I suspect there may be some interesting cross-fertilization between the cell level and the city level with their similar aggregate structure in some circumstances. In an attempt to establish this link I am reading/reviewing parts of "Images of Organization", "On Growth and Form", and "Scale": corresponding to organizations, cells/organisms, and organizations/cities. For the species level I have been working my way through "The Structure of Evolutionary Theory" for quite some time (almost 1500 pages and dense). That has been quite interesting and helps me establish a geological-time pivot (species level) in the center for peripheral levels to cycle around.
Last edited by daylen on Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Let's just go ahead and do for R and C what we did for P. Convert: R = rectangular holarchy into E = event holarchy; and C = circle holarchy into A = attention holarchy (retaining all that was said about attentional orders above). The direction of increasing order is different for each: A increases and E decreases in order as you go into the diagram. Like in this first example..

Image

Therefore a diagram with a in E0, b in A0, and c in R0 would simply be a rectangle containing a point outside of a circle or [(c outside b) inside a]. This simplification should lead to more elegant algebra in the future.

The second diagram represents the intuition behind attentional orders being linked to circles/activities/judgements/goals. Being consistent with my earlier work, the edge of the circles are conscious (i.e. the origins of attention), therefore a cognitive diagram attempts to capture what multiple attentional origins of varying orders might "see". A particular A0 can "see" E0, R0's, A0's, and only their own A1's and R1's; a particular A0 cannot however attend to higher-order structures and can only infer the existence of these structures by shifting to higher-order A's within and project that structure onto other agents back at A0. This must be done with the judgement functions (introverted into and extroverted out of) and any points brought along the way must be deconstructed from one of these higher-order structures. So an agent must literally deconstruct parts of themselves in order to share those parts with other agents. Yet reconstruction is likely to follow after the point is made. Another important note is that an agent cannot be at multiple orders of A simultaneously (a function must be executed in transition and this takes time).

Lower-order events conscerning games or organizational partitions can be contained within higher-order events with a cognitive diagram. Such higher-order events could be city-wide or even planet-wide yet an agent within a lower-order event cannot "see" these higher-order events unless a model is brought along with them.
Last edited by daylen on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Given that attentional orders are now meshed into cognitive diagrams. Keep in mind that an agent can have repressed orders within them that are rarely if at all accessed (or nothing can be brought back). Hence an onion layered mind does not necessarily correspond to high-order attention given that the agent may only have reliable access a couple of orders deep. To be able to go deep, deconstruct, communicate, then reconstruct requires a kind of structural stability likely to be found only with complexity/maturity. It is a bit like finding your way in, out, then back into a maze multiple layers deep(*).

(*) Somewhat interesting parallel can be found in westworld season one. Artistic/Fictional constructions often align with a truth (i.e. if that truth can be found).

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Image

So long as A figures are without sharp corners and E figures are polygons, get creative with topological equivalence and color!

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Quadra Model for Socio-location and Socio-polation

The quadra model has been talked about here in the past. In this post, we will explore how quadras are combined with cognitive diagrams, and how such a model can be applied to socio-location (i.e. social location) and socio-polation (i.e. social polation). Socio-location is just the ability for an agent to locate their micro-event within a macro-event based upon communication with other agents. Macro-events are generally "big" enough that all four quadras are represented in their normal/universal proportions(*). Both alpha and gamma alternate between particulars and universals; beta and delta concentrate on either universals or particulars respectively.

NeSi, FeTi - particular perception and universal judgement (Alpha)
SeNi, FeTi - universal perception and judgement (Beta)
NeSi, TeFi - particular perception and judgement (Delta)
SeNi, TeFi - universal perception and particular judgement (Gamma)

(*) About (1/3, 1/6, 1/3, 1/6) for (Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma) roughly corresponding to (Democracy, Meritocracy, Bureaucracy, Oligarchy) or (many, merit, admin, few).

Generally, alpha-gamma couple together shorter time-cycles with longer time-cycles and beta-delta couple together intermediate time-cycles. This results in more stable alpha-gamma and beta-delta communication channels (i.e. signal wavelength alignment). This can be illustrated with archetypal institutions: (alpha - insurance) with (gamma - investing) and (beta - defense) with (delta - schooling) where the former find common ground in valuation/projection, and the latter find common ground in training/prevention. Such polarity is what keeps "society" coherent/stable in this model.

Below are two diagrams demonstrating attentional patterns for agents at each pole. One interpretation, aligned with the title of this post, is that these diagrams serve our ability to socio-locate and socio-polate events.

Image

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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I haven't. Looks interesting, so I will watch it later.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Research
Specification of problems and the implementation of constraints that narrow their solution space. Problems can be both absolute or relative. Absolute problems affect all agents across all of spacetime; relative problems affect some agents in a finite spacetime interval. Relative problems are also relative solutions and their combination is typically referred to as an event. Constraints are pulled from a diverse set of locations in the information ecology inclusive of GR, SM, QM, Phylogenetics, Genetics, and so forth. Intermediate fields governing medium numbers such as economics, social science, psychology, ecology, etc. are mostly reconstructed to reduce complexity from my POV. This encoding is similar enough to the native codes to enable conversation with respective experts yet dissimilar enough to provide unique insight across the whole space.

Any glue that holds all these constraints together is hidden the majority of the time. In other words, math/logic is primarily an unknown known with a continuously expanding border between known knowns and known unknowns. Attention is directed more towards what makes this reality unique in the set of all possible realities and towards the reconciliation of current events with absolute problems.

Development
Easing the drive to produce something of lasting value. Attention is directed more towards the elimination of irreversible harm. A memetic system should probably not be broadcasted to a wider audience than has been acquired organically (i.e. through more ancient pathways). Too often this results in information pollution and amplifies existing polarization. Small is beautiful, but controlling the large requires a large reach and we are currently embedded in something large. The current development of anything that is both ethical and impactful requires humility, comedy, patience, and urgency. How such a combination is to be implemented is still a work in progress. Hope exists in the recognition that viable paths continue to reduce in number and present themselves in greater detail.

Tutoring
A part-time gig whereby I can practice both teaching and the development of insight on a small scale. I specialize in math and physics for students of all ages. In addition, I try to supplement my sessions with the development of systems thinking. Typically, this more advanced curriculum is hidden to the student and more implicit in the interaction.

Cooking
To reduce internal complexity, I have converged onto four different classes of meals that make up the majority of my diet: curry, chili, ramen, and burrito mix. There is a large overlap in ingredients but enough diversity to keep me satisfied. Two general rules I tend to follow are to use few ingredients cooked to perfection and to never measure. The majority of calories come from rice, potatoes, pasta, tomatoes, red beans, and black beans. Most spices are whole and coarsely grounded with a pestle and mortar. Application of salt, fat, acid, and heat is instinctual.

Gaming
This node is highly variable. I find gaming helps quench my thirst for puzzles. This is the closed-form version of my R&D nodes which involve open-ended questioning and systematization. A few of the games I enjoy are Runescape, Civilization 6, and Cities Skylines.

Socialization
Another highly variable node with an assortment of patterns. I cohere with one other agent in my network on a daily basis, a couple agents on a weekly basis, and several agents on a monthly/yearly basis. Altogether, the sum is around 30; so far below the Dunbar range. I suppose my slight engagement on the forums helps make up some of the difference. Although, I am searching for ethical ways to scale social structures without regressing to game A (i.e. what humans have been doing all along for the most part).

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Just released the first post on my new blog if anyone is interested: daylenbonner.com

The next post is likely to be titled "Integration of Mind". From there, many paths open up for exploration.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Internal is up and external is down may be true in general, but doesn’t the placement of our eyes combined with high dependency on visual input sort of override this for humans?

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Yeah, it is meant as just a heuristic. The up/down, left/right, and front/back mappings are not strictly necessary to establish the distinctions, but I thought they were good enough for pedagogy.

white belt
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by white belt »

daylen wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:17 pm

Cooking
To reduce internal complexity, I have converged onto four different classes of meals that make up the majority of my diet: curry, chili, ramen, and burrito mix. There is a large overlap in ingredients but enough diversity to keep me satisfied. Two general rules I tend to follow are to use few ingredients cooked to perfection and to never measure. The majority of calories come from rice, potatoes, pasta, tomatoes, red beans, and black beans. Most spices are whole and coarsely grounded with a pestle and mortar. Application of salt, fat, acid, and heat is instinctual.
I also thoroughly enjoy ramen. Do you get store bought noodles or make your own? Ramen noodles are on my list of things I want to learn to make from scratch once I'm trying to gain weight again. This video shows some basic steps (he has another video that shows how to do it with just a knife instead of a pasta cutter): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8rsTkOsI2M

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

I buy ramen at the store for now but learning how to make pasta is a goal of mine. Not sure when I will get around to it, ha.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Second post is up on blog. Covers attention, mirrors, agency, communion, cycles, graphs (like a web of goals), shadows, and more!

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Here is the third leg of the foundations tripod covering how finite attention is grounded in the infinite: https://daylenbonner.com/2021/05/17/embodiment-of-mind/

Using this tripod, the blog will take on a variety of threads in an attempt to weave together various areas of psychology/philosophy.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

I do not know what the point/frame is.. I just find points/frames easy to talk about.. I mean.. who is triggered by points and/or frames in the abstract? They may even be anti-fragile words. Thus the two can be weaved together into a story that develops with the recipient, adding in maps/relationships/metaphors particular to them to solidify their memory.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Adding in the word agent will inevitably lead to conversations further outside the Overton window, thus probably use with more caution.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

This train of thought leads to a more general principle: The stranger, the deeper you must go to familiarize.

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