The Education of Axel Heyst

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suomalainen
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by suomalainen »

jacob wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 pm
receptable(SP?) for
receptive to

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

jacob wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 pm
The hard part is doing things differently from other humans. It requires overriding one's natural instincts and thereby growing as a person.
In the language of blitzkrieg, as adopted/stolen by the acolytes of John Boyd, maybe we can say that overcoming/solving for the social isolation/outgroup dynamics is the schwerpunkt of ERE.*

*(I hesitated to add the link, because imo 99% of internet articles about Boyd "don't get it").

theanimal
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by theanimal »

Great to see the tour of Serenity! Nice setup, I really like your couch/bed/storage. Are you using a Whale Gusher Galley pump for the sink?

You've had some great posts lately. Sounds like things are starting to come together for you. Something I continually find myself relearning is that there is much more value out of doing things then out of endlessly researching and reading about them. I might get some good ideas and a framework for what I should expect from research, but until I actually do it I'm not really in the same mindset and the real learning has yet to begin.

Another analogy for you similar to that guy with the dumpster about minimalism is people who don't use money like Mark Boyle or Suelo. They didn't make spreadsheets and analyze the different ways in how they could achieve what they wanted. No, they just got rid of what money they had and didn't buy anything. Simple, not easy. I'll be curious to hear if you pursue a no-buy year. I've been debating starting one myself.

jacob
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by jacob »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:06 pm
In the language of blitzkrieg, as adopted/stolen by the acolytes of John Boyd, maybe we can say that overcoming/solving for the social isolation/outgroup dynamics is the schwerpunkt of ERE.*
[Stuff deleted]

After thinking about it further, I think the answer for post-ERE is yes^H^H^Hmaybe. "Other people" is certainly one of the more weakly developed aspects of ERE. I mean the book itself only had a brief section about "how to convince one's spouse". Also, as someone who is mostly quite entertained/engaged/content in my own company, it's hard to be supremely motivated towards solving it.

ThriftyRob
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by ThriftyRob »

Thanks for posting the YouTube link to Serenity. It's a very functional design and has got me thinking about our options.

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Alphaville
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by Alphaville »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:36 pm
Also, here's a tour of Serenity if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/LnbqL0ltZ_U

Footage is from summer 2019, I just didn't get around to editing it until a couple days ago.
nice build!

ertyu
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by ertyu »

love this, both the build and the edit

7Wannabe5
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Very cool and inventive!

NuncFluens
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by NuncFluens »

Yeah, the Serenity tour was pretty cool. I'm always amazed by the space-saving solutions and multi-purpose thinking of such minimal space living arrangements. It's probably not in my future to live like that and I might romantize a bit too much, but I'm a wee bit jealous.

I also really enjoy your long form posts. That's some deep thinking there and I wish I found the time and insightful things to say to reply one day.
Anyway, cool stuff :)

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

theanimal wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:16 am
Nice setup, I really like your couch/bed/storage. Are you using a Whale Gusher Galley pump for the sink?
Thanks, and yep! And I just ordered another one for the container build, I'm planning on making functionally the exact same kitchen for it, just a couple minor tweaks in layout (mostly to make the build simpler).
theanimal wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:16 am
Something I continually find myself relearning is that there is much more value out of doing things then out of endlessly researching and reading about them.
Miyamoto Musashi: "Words can only bring you to the foot of the path." To which I add, "yeah, and, I'd rather be at the foot of the path I want to be on, rather than at the end of a path I don't!" Striking the right balance (and overthinking it) is the story of my life...
theanimal wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:16 am
I'll be curious to hear if you pursue a no-buy year. I've been debating starting one myself.
I may have started one, or a bastard version of one. February was essentially no-buy, except I'm okay with buying building materials for the container (and any required mods for Serenity, e.g. having to do with winterization or electrical upgrades). So I'm considering committing to a "no consumer goods, but necessary tools and building materials are okay" year. Which doesn't really roll off the tongue so well. It's tricky because sometimes the line between necessary materials and gadgets is blurry.

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

jacob wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:02 am
After thinking about it further, I think the answer for post-ERE is yes^H^H^Hmaybe. "Other people" is certainly one of the more weakly developed aspects of ERE. I mean the book itself only had a brief section about "how to convince one's spouse". Also, as someone who is mostly quite entertained/engaged/content in my own company, it's hard to be supremely motivated towards solving it.
Sure, so maybe the social aspect of ERE is schwerenpunkt for *some*. The less concerned one is with "what their friends will think", the less so. But personalities such as, oh, say, ENFP (cough my gf cough) for whom fitting in (or more precisely, not being kicked out) is a very high priority, it's a Really Big Deal.

I think this is potentially another 100% is easier than 85% situation, though, and it's related to a comment I made in 2bs1's journal to c_L about how to make friends in fringe groups. If you're an extreme cheapskate, your relationships with your normie friends will experience tension ("hey let's go to the pub and spend a pile of money on subpar food!" Uh, let's not and say we did?). If you're full-blown ERE *and* a social type, all your friends are on the same page as you because all your normie friends abandoned or followed you and you now only hang out with people on your wavelength.

^^that didn't make much sense probably. I think I have the topic for my next megapost though...

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

The rest of you: thanks for the kind words re: Serenity! :)

RoamingFrancis
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Interesting. I am comfortable applying to myself both the labels of ENFP and lifelong nonconformist. Though you are right in that I'm pretty good at finding people on my wavelength.

jacob
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by jacob »

Yes, I don't think it's an ENFP problem as much as it's a Kegan3/Conformist stage challenge. I currently have no better solution to that than slowly [or brutally as in the cold turkey/buy nothing/crowbar maneuver---if so this should done be voluntarily!] bringing people around by finding other ways/tribes (groups of Us) to do more ERE things with such as home cooking, board games, and the likes OR by finding meaning/drive outside of the group, e.g. by developing an identity as a minimalist or someone else (some mission/vision).

Add ... or at least going along with your vision/mission ... and you [guys] finding some way to integrate those.

theanimal
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by theanimal »

I have the same predicament. I don't really buy stuff at the moment other than what things I'm putting into my house. Thankfully, my project is nearing it's end, so beyond this month I don't think there will be many major expenses in this category. So perhaps I will start mine in April, after coming up with some ground rules. Have you considered sourcing recycled/discarded/used materials for your build? Perhaps you can go about it this way? Just some food for thought. I only did it minimally myself this first time but my gf and I are planning to build a sauna this summer entirely out of salvaged material.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@jacob my natural inclination is what you say. I tend to have a mission/vision and use my ENFP skills to seduce people into getting involved. :)

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

@theanimal, yes, well, besides the container itself which surely counts for something, but sourcing recycled stuff is logistically difficult where I'm at. It's *possible*, but I was looking at spending more time and gas getting the recycled/reclaimed stuff than it was going to be worth from a $ perspective. The CL scene in my immediate area is a void, and the closer you get to any of the real cities in this state the more you're competing with actual salvage professionals who swoop up the good stuff immediately (particularly with the lumber prices spiking). A lot of the salvaged stores/depots you can go to are *more* expensive than normal stuff, because salvage is so hawt right now. The big win was the insulation, which was factory seconds, $1600 worth of stuff I got for $650.

Mostly what I'm putting my attention to is designing it in such a way that it requires as little materials as possible, and getting it done. I'm pretty keen for my next build to be more on the 'natural building' side of things - jute earthbag, strawbale, cob, wofati, whatever makes sense depending on the location.

Looking forward to following the salvaged sauna build!

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

@jacob and @rf - yes I wasn't thinking through that one fully. My ENFP gf is also highly (sometimes lovably obnoxiously) nonconformist. She does seem to suffer somewhat without at least a couple other nonconformist friends to vibe with. I might need to disentangle some ideas I have around this.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Can relate. I need weirdo friends :)

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Education of Axel Heyst

Post by AxelHeyst »

Ah, what I was trying to say got worked out a little in my mind overnight:

I didn't mean to imply that ENFPs are conformists (it didn't even occur to me, because all the ENFPs I know are very outspoken).

I meant that being a part of Us is very important to them. They also feel authenticity, truth, rightness, very strongly. Take these two attributes together, this means that they use their feeling about what is true/right/on mission as a guide, and then seek out strong relationships with other people who agree or are at least adjacent/complementary to those felt values.

In other words, conformists feel needing to be part of Us overridingly strongly, and will adopt the values/mission of whoever the Us is that they fell in with - they're Us first, Values second or ninth or not at all. Whereas the ENFP (or, maybe I'm wrong about the MB type, so just "the personality that I'm talking about there") is Values first, Us second.

Whereas someone with a strong mission but without as strong of a desire to be part of Us might do their own thing, but expend little effort to find/nurture relationships with other people who are on the same mission. So they'd be Values first, Us fourth or fifth or something.

--

So my experience with my girlfriend is that she hasn't reached the point of completely feeling the "rightness" of extreme frugality (to take one component of ERE), and few people in her life are extremely frugal, so the currently weak pull of frugality values is largely beaten by the stronger pull of Us.

Knowing her, if/when she does *feel* the rightness of radical frugality, she'll become more hardcore than I am.

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