Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
ertyu
Posts: 2893
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by ertyu »

I also hate David Burns' material Vaikeasti when you're done reading we can hate him together :lol:

Awesome progress this update! :muscle:

mathiverse
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by mathiverse »

Vaikeasti wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:03 am
ERE with small kids
As I'm not energetic like a Duracell bunny, and not into fashion or clothes in general, I've been surprised by the amount of clothing I need to provide to my kids.
If I get one good winter coat for myself I'm warm fort he next ten or so years.
But if I get a fitting winter coat for a three year old the chances are high it's not going to fit them next winter.
Kids feet can grow three sizes per year so the need to get bigger footwear is constant. A size up every three months... I'm no longer puzzled by the stories of children walking in too big or too small shoes.
First you need to figure out what the child needs, then what is it called, then find out how that garments size is measured, then measure your child, then start looking for it, and keep measuring that child because otherwise the clothes will be too small when you finally do get them.
And typically I'm running so slow that when I figure out a need the need is instant, or like, they would have needed it yesterday.
Parent shame away folks. Or better yet, if you have any helpful hints how to tackle this, I'd be grateful.
I do not have kids, so I haven't tried this and I'm not sure how effective this is, but I'll throw it out there.

One trick that I read in the Tightwad Gazette compendium book is to buy clothes your kids don't fit now, but you expect them to fit shortly. It avoids having to time purchases well and allows you to still get the good deals you'd like. The downsides are that you may buy more than you strictly need to in the case where a kid grows fast enough to skip sizes and you require more storage space.

Biscuits and Gravy
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:38 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Biscuits and Gravy »

Re clothing small kids. Make friends with someone that has kids slightly older than your own and ask for the hand-me-downs. My sis sends me all of my niece’s old shoes and the clothes she hasn’t worn down to nothing, and I in turn pass the shoes on to a friend with a younger kid. I’ve only bought two pairs of shoes total for my one year old and three year old. It is a hassle keeping five different sizes of shoes at once, but that’s when it pays to be organized. I have simple bins marked 5, 6, 7, etc. on post-it notes in the kids’ closet. Good luck!

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

@ertyu Haha! Thank you. Afraid I'm still more like a teen in rebellion with my fanboy attitude than a real hater.

@mathiverse, thanks for the advice! I actually have a small inventory of too big clothing. Maybe the bigger problem is not being organized enough?

@Biscuits and Gravy, very good point. After all it is mostly social knowledge I'm lacking and also social capital can help with the actual acquirement. Having a parent "mentor" so to speak could solve both these problems. Best would be a family that doesn't have kids that are younger than mine... And now I feel like a sociopath because I'm thinking about where could I make friends with a suitable person. :lol:

Aspirant
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:57 am
Location: 65 deg north

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Aspirant »

It seems there are two strategies for kids clothing. 1. Buy good brands and resell or 2. Buy cheap or used and recycle.

Maybe the optimal would be to buy good brands used and still resell them?

You actually need friends with both older and younger kids. Otherwise you can't get rid of the stuff that becomes too small.We got stuff from DWs friend and disposed it to my sis...

Hristo Botev
Posts: 1734
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 am

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

On kids' clothes, agree with others that it's very important to do hand-me-downs, whether from other siblings, older cousins, or from other families in your social network. That doesn't work for everything, but it helps. E.g., we have a nephew who is a few years older than DS and also (a) undersized for his age, and (b) not particularly active physically or rambunctious. What that means for us, except for school uniforms, we don't ever really buy clothes for DS, except shoes; because once the nephew grows out of his clothes, they are ready for DS and they are still pristine. DS, however, wears through clothes like a champ--grass stains; holes in knees/elbows; rips from playing football or rummaging through the woods. So, unfortunately, I don't think we've ever been able to hand down any of DS's clothes--they go to the trash or become cleaning rags. DD, on the other hand, takes very good care of her clothes and will wear an outfit for years, and regularly hands her clothes down to a family friend's daughter.

For school uniforms our PTA has monthly used clothing sales--they've got a whole honor code payment system that's pretty cool. Anyway, that's where our kids get most of their school uniform clothes. Unfortunately, as with non-school clothes, we rarely get to sell DS's clothes (he's never worn a pair of uniform pants that don't eventually end up with holes in the knees). But we do get to sell whatever of DD's uniform clothes we don't give to the family friend's daughter.

ETA: Our parents are pretty good about buying clothes and shoes for the kids, as opposed to cheap plastic toys. So thankfully we don't really buy shoes for the kids too much (but it's still exhausting how quickly they grow out of shoes--and DS STILL manages to wear his shoes out before he grows out of them).

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

@Aspirant and Hristo Botev, thanks for the chime in!
It is a bit disheartening that this seems to be a long battle. Very important points on quality, wear and that I should also find a successor for the clothes that survive. Sometimes I wonder if school uniforms would make things easier or not. We don't have those here.
And it's true that the grandparents are a great resource in this matter too.

On Getting Things Done
I finally finished reading the GTD shortened translation. It was a good read, but I think I'd really benefit from attending the course.

It was funny and a bit nostalgic reading it, because I had actually used a GTD type method when I was working as a janitor.
I'd spend time at the start and end of every shift with noting down what I should do, where and if It had a dead line.
Then I'd arrange the list by urgency and location an then start working according to the list.
Sometimes I'd revise the list at lunch, and naturally if the (weather) conditions changed.
At the end of the shift I'd note down things still undone and new things that came up, and delegate some things to colleagues.
It was a good and systematic approach, but some people didn't like it when I started my shifts by sitting down, sometimes even for an hour!
For some reason it is received better if a janitor runs around all day getting little done...

I think I'm still not clear of all the steps in GTD. I have something like:
Note down tasks by making a full sentence of the result. (Capture)
Figure out for the task it's first step and prerequisites (location, tools, time constraints). (Clarify / Process)
Then something happens? I guess I should put the stuff in proper lists and calendars and prioritize and such? (Organize)
And now is the time to do stuff. (Engage/Do)
Then at a different time you get back to the lists and revise as needed. (Reflect/Plan)

The first three are the task gathering and processing parts that are operational all the time. The doing part happens at specific times after the prioritizing of the tasks has been done. And the reflecting/planning should be executed from time to time to keep the lists up to date, so it is more like maintenance of the system.

I see I'm listing them in a different order than the book, so there must still be something I'm missing... All insights on this are welcome!

I made a notebook* to try and use the method, but some far I've only filled the maybe/someday-list. I tried making a To do today -list, but that made me feel like my heart was being shredded, so I stopped. I'll comb through the someday-list and identify projects and add locations and first steps to those things and see if that leads to something.

But I did get stuff done as I tried the 2 minute exercise:
"When you notice something that needs doing and that you think will only take max 2 minutes, you start a timer and do it. After a month you should have a better understanding of what those 2 min tasks really are."

*) Okay, I didn't bind myself a book this time, I took an existing notebook and taped some ribbons to it for bookmarks.

On systems thinking
I've been thinking about this as it's a big topic on this forum. As I understand it at the moment the systems approach means you understand and take account of how things influence each other. You find ways to benefit from how things naturally are instead of trying to work against them. A systems thinker sees possibilities of the third order where others see trash.
I feel it's like in the storybook of Findus's birthday cake. Pettson (a farmer) and Findus (his talking cat) try to make a birthday pancake cake, but they have no flour.
So they need to get to store, but to get to the store they need to fix the bike, and to fix the bike they need tools from the shed and to get to shed they need to get the key from the well and so on...
And then the neighbor comes over and sees Pettson mixing his pants with broken eggs as "he's in the process of making a cake". :lol:

My Dad has very long routes to stuff also because he likes to network and trade for things.
He is curious, easily excitable and always ready to help. And he has a lot of projects going on and awaiting materials. So many in fact that his backyard is referred by the neighbors as "the landfill". And indeed sometimes the materials wait for so long they are no longer usable. But oftentimes he does get utility from what others consider trash.

For example, he has been paving his driveway for years now. As he's been collecting leftover free bricks and doing the labor mostly by himself. He has a friend that loans him a small excavator very occasionally, as he uses it for work.
Most people only see the unfinished pavement and the piles of dirt and random bricks. Just like Peterson's neighbor only sees the pants in scrambled eggs.

We just procured a trampoline from relatives in exchange for help with demolishing their old shed. Arranged by dad.

I too, sometimes see a possibility that others would disregard. So I just have to rescue that potential from turning into waste. But because I'm quite good at imagining what I could do with some material, I usually end up doing nothing, as the dream gets bigger than my current skills. And this my dear fellows, is a recipe for hoarding.

But is it systems thinking?

In short:
Success:
  • Laughed when a webstore had "dietary information" for underwear
  • Managed finally to produce soft whipped cream from soy cream with a balloon whisk!
  • So far couples therapy going better than expected (I'm seeing the faults in myself and feeling there's still a future)
  • Found some edible mushrooms! (This year I've eaten more self foraged stuff than ever before, I'm really excited!)
  • Trips to the near by forest with the kids
  • Kids got candy necklaces and made bracelets from the empty strings (Their own idea!)
Room for improvement:
  • Didn't help out when SO poured concrete (SO been busy at the cabin, new rain gutters and an air-to-air heat pump on the way)
  • Implementing the GTD method (Finished reading the GTD book. I have a novel length "someday-list" now..)
  • We would benefit from better routines and less screen time as every day stuff feels unbearably difficult
  • Lacking vigilance regarding the kids results in at least one going missing every time we go outside
  • Baked bread instead of bread rolls (Taste is okay, but it's a bit too dry and quite small and ugly)
  • I'm already planning for Christmas as there are a lot of conflicting desires regarding it
Risks taken:
  • Agreed on a Halloween party with the neighbors kids
  • Attended a birthday party outside
  • Asked for help with out sleeping routines
  • Went to the cabin on a short notice (a success as the kids had some positive interaction with SO)
Played it safe:
  • Haven't been asking for work
  • Ignoring school at the moment
  • Refused an invite to a restaurant dinner with friends
Last edited by Vaikeasti on Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aspirant
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:57 am
Location: 65 deg north

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Aspirant »

We would benefit from better routines and less screen time as every day stuff feels unbearably difficult
Hahhah. This is me...

I should get some GTD-method going. Both at work and at home. Well, yesterday my holiday was filled with preparing rental agreements and billing rents. Today was (yet another) yard work party for housing cooperative. Luckily there was snow so no raking leaves. And one of our tenants broke an oven so went to find a replacement.

Congrats on the couples therapy :) For us it felt like a start of a long process of things getting better...

AxelHeyst
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Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by AxelHeyst »

How's the GTD going? I found that with just reading the book, I really struggled to build/implement it in a specific system that worked for me. This is sort of intentional, as the book is intended to be the principles and philosophy, allowing GTD to be "platform agnostic". But the downside is that, with just the book, it's difficult to go from "okay, I buy the principles" to "I have a functional GTD system".

There are a multitude of platform-specific guides that I found very helpful. There are official ones you can pay for or find some on blogs and such. The one that made the very most sense to me, and made it all click together, is "The Secret Weapon" for GTD with Evernote. I think that, even if you don't want to use an electronic system, giving that guide (google it, easy to find) a read will be helpful.

I found the GTD podcast to be helpful in terms of filling in the blanks and getting interesting ideas as well as inspiration to stick with it. It's pretty cheesy though.

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

@Aspirant, a long journey it is indeed. Thanks for the chime in. :)

@AxelHeyst, how nice of you to ask! Well...so far the GDT has only acted as a brain dump and a daily todo list. No real coherent system is in place. But I have the experience from my work where I had a working system. I will take the time and compare that isolated situation with my life, to try to deduce what worked and why and how it could be extrapolated to fit my whole life. I can imagine how it would work and benefit me day to day, but getting the system up and running, when the backlog is miles long, is something I'm still struggling with. Maybe this is a question of trying to get it too perfect again?

This isolation is really starting to get to me mentally and physically. The dark days are not helping either. My school is done, I was laid off from work, social contacts are minimal, I've stopped basically all cooking and house maintenance. The only anchor in my life at the moment, is my kids. But I'm aware of it and that's the first step in surviving, and maybe someday thriving again.

I've been reading and looking at youtube videos about neurodiversity lately. In Finland you can't basically get a diagnosis if it doesn't seriously impair your life, so most of the youtubers maybe wouldn't get a diagnosis here.
The "I need to brand myself and be happy and dedicated all the time" -scheme is on the rise even here, but still I think there's still room to be introverted and a bit odd in here, at least more than in the USA for example.
Being autistic or having ADHD doesn't mean you're broken or inferior. It just means your brain works significantly different that the average. At the moment I think a lot the people on these forums could relate to a lot the stuff neurodiverse people are experiencing. Diagnosis or not, I find many of the strategies and tools used by neurodiverse people very helpful. My prevalent thought watching these videos is "Isn't that just normal?/Wouldn't everybody benefit from those things?"

In short:
Success:
  • Several good mushroom spots found near home and cabin. (I feel confident in recognizing most of the typical edible mushrooms now.)
  • Harvested some nettles for the winter. Also Arugula blossomed and I collected the seeds.
  • I handed in the thesis in the last possible minute and graduated. First time being a bachelor, I quite like it already. :D
  • Christmas decorations mostly in place.
  • Home made toy advent calendar is a hit again this year. Not cute but simple and delightful. (I got used lego sets and divided them to homemade small paper envelopes/bags. )

Room for improvement:
  • I'm was working only 1-2 hours a week this fall so the layoff was no surprise.
  • I stopped the no sugar challenge early and while finishing the thesis I lived basically on sugar.
  • Our screen time is off the charts...
  • I know we need more social interaction but lack the energy to arrange it (same with proper nutrition and sleep).
  • I'm starting to come to terms with that my SO is most likely on the spectrum (Right now I just think I see autism everywhere)
  • I've not been on top the numbers, but I'm sure we're spending more than we earn...


Risks taken:
  • Stayed for a night in a rental place with a bathtub (the kids had a sleepover with grandma).
  • Went Christmas shopping with the kids.
  • Went to an indoor playground with the kids.
  • Went skating with the kids.
  • Seen some relatives.

Played it safe:
  • Planning on spending Christmas at the cabin
  • Stayed in for a week with a flu
  • Ordered faster internet for home (since we're more stuck here and the slower one was affecting my work)

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Year 2020 finances and estimates from 2021

Post by Vaikeasti »

Year 2020 finances
Average spending 3500eur/month or 4300USD/month (-15%)
Average income 4100eur/month or 4900USD/month (-8%)
Spending total 41000eur (-13%)
Income total 49000eur (-9%)
Savings rate 16% (+33%)

12/2020 status
Kids:
Cash: 4 800€ (+140% since 8/2019)
Bonds: 12 000€ (+33% since 8/2019)

Going as planned with the kids.

Current wealth (for both of us adults):
Liquid assets:
Cash: 16 500€ (+20% since 8/2019)
Funds: 10 300€ (+24% since 8/2019)
Shares: 21 400€ (+150% since 8/2019)
=48 200€ (+58% since 8/2019)

Non-liquid assets:
Unlisted shares: 2 200€ (no change)
Debenture: 3 000€ (no change)
Misc: 10 000€ (no change)
Voluntary pension insurance: 9 600€ (payout earliest after 2055)
=15 200€

Liabilities:
Mortage(home): -70 000€ (-6% since 8/2019)
Mortage(cabin): -32 300€ (-10% since 8/2019)
Student loan: -11 000€ (no change)
= -113 300€ (-5% since 8/2019)

Networth (money towards ERE):
48200€+15200€-113300€= -49900€ (+32% since 8/2019)

Normal networth:
48200€+15200+9600€+231000€-113300€=190 700€ (+26% since 8/2019)

Estimates for 2021:
Income per month (after tax):
Full time job: 2 500€ (base salary)
Meeting remunerations: 110€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
Dividends: 40€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
=2650€

Target expenses 2021: 40 000€ or 3300€/month

Yeah, it doesn't add up. I need to discuss this with SO and I also need to get a job. And get our spending in order...

Wishing you all had a good turn of the year and holiday season.
And may the next year be better than the one before.

Aspirant
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:57 am
Location: 65 deg north

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Aspirant »

Hello Vaikeasti, how have you been?

How is life with the family? Have you had any cancellations of the kids hobbies or anything? In the North the situation seems pretty good, and DK can have his soccer practice. Let´s see how the coming restrictions will affect our area.

Estimates for 2021 seem pretty good. I am assuming that the expense side has all family expenses and income side has only one salary? Getting a new job might not be easy during "these times", but I have been seeing a few ads where companies are looking for property managers (if that is your thing).

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

Hey Aspirant! Nice of you to ask. This has been a very turbulent year so far.

I got laid off from work at the end of last year, so I spent January applying for jobs and going to interviews.
I was really fortunate and got several job offers. I chose the biggest company, but mainly based on my gut feeling about the boss there.
I would have gotten a slightly better pay and shorter travel time from another place but the boss didn't seem as good and the job would have had involved more travelling. This company feels healthier than the last one I worked at, but I haven't really connected with anyone yet. So far this feels like the right choice for the moment.
The best choice would've been something else than full time employment, but that was not an option.
I'm compensating the long hours at work by heavily outsourcing childcare, even if that means more exposure.
We decided to turn this in to a win-win situation by hiring my sister to take care of our kids a few evenings per week.
She has a part time job, and now with the extra salary from us, she can finally get a mortgage and get her own place.
At the moment and in her desired area, it's cheaper to own than rent.
It's weird, how this arrangement at the same time takes away some guilt from working such "long" hours, and makes me nervous, because more people are depending on my ability to keep this job and bring home a salary.

I haven't been looking at our budget or doing anything to advance our ERE journey really. Though I hope that having two salaries will increase our savings rate. SO is living in dreamland and thinking about stuff to spend money on and it stresses me. But we've made some small steps in the couples therapy. It's really hard for me: at one moment I'm certain that things will never get better, and at another moment I see small glimpses of hope. At times I hate hope, since it also means longer suffering and uncertainty. I've realized I'm really bad at dealing with uncertainty.

I tried to go through the 21 day makeover to get my focus back to ERE. Basically it turned out as a confession of ERE sins... :roll:

1) Place to live
Still staying at the same place and owning the expensive cabin, and going there every weekend. I think of the trips as part of our healthcare costs.
2) Decluttering and managing stuff
Yeah... We've lost a bed room, half of our living room and half of our entry hall to clutter. Our home and our cabin resemble a storage more than a living space.
3) Grocery shopping
SO still mainly takes care of groceries. I sometimes go to the store and buy everything stupid.
4) Drop the cell phone plan
Um, we got a new cellphone plan for the oldest kid. So yeah.
5) Find a free hobby
We enlisted the oldest to kid to an art course. I'm still drawing a little so at least there's that.
6) Clothes
I'm buying a lot of new clothes, since the kids are growing so fast. I'm just grapping stuff when grocery shopping so the quality and price are really not that good. I bought a couple office shirts for me too, even though I'm mostly working from home.
7) Going car free
Nope. Still driving to the cabin every weekend with our diesel car.
8) Get engaged
At the moment everything feels blurry and I have very little motivation to anything. We are all still adjusting to me working full time and the kids going to daycare full time.
9) Budgeting
I've forgotten all about this...
10) Calculating net worth
I plan on doing this some time soon(ish).
11) Connecting your stuff with your neighbors
We've borrowed board games and outdoor equipment. And one neighbor is also using my sisters childcare services. So maybe this is going okay?
12) Savings account
We have several accounts and brokerage accounts, but should save more aggressively.
13) Insurance
Just paid all insurance without even looking. I'll have to get back to that.
14) Investing for ERE
I haven't read or thought about investing. I just haven't got the strength in me...
15) -
16) Keep only stuff you use
I'm keeping every trinket that comes my way, my kids have also inherited this trait. Nice.
17) Maintaining and repairing
For some reason I wanted to mend things in the evenings during my first three work weeks.
18) Join a challenge
I did a few challenges last year with a friend and this year I started a reading challenge with other friends. (So far I've only read 1984 by George Orwell, it was sooo good! That's a book I'd love to own.)
19) Get rid of your addiction
Oh no, not my internet and videos! I just got a shared streaming service and I've been using videos as a lure to get the kids out of bed in the morning.
20) Own classics
I've bought so much crap from dollar stores lately...
21) Investing for ERE II
Just took money from savings to pay bills..

I feel like I'm going backwards, and I'm sad that I'm working full time when my kids are still small. My older kid is trapped in school but the younger one still has a few years before that. I'd like to spend quality time with them but I just don't have the energy for it.
I hate this feeling of barely keeping on top of things. I hope things will settle soon. From the outside stuff is okay, we're healthy and have two working adults.

I really feel at loss, since the situation at home is unclear and I can't make plans for the future. I'm bad at functioning without a plan and direction.

I wish you all the best and apologize for the rambling. It feels hard to gather my thoughts, but I still want to let you know, I'm thinking about you awesome people and the journey we're all on.


In short:
Success:
  • Got a new job in a month, I actually got to choose. And so far I'm not totally awful at my job.
  • Told a person they were being impolite and they apologized
  • Stood my ground: insisted to my therapist that a subject was important to me even though they didn't see it at first
  • I feel our couples therapist now has a full picture of our situation
  • Dyed our old rags blue and now they look like new!
  • Mended socks and fixed shirts and gloves
  • Had some fun drawing for a friend

Room for improvement:
  • Still overly sensitive to perceived rejection and stress
  • Occasionally screaming to the kids
  • Not much physical activity or outdoors time (for me or the kids)
  • Enrolled to a course but haven't had the energy to study it
  • Missed my chance to copy notes from a school friend
  • My therapist tested positive, so I'll be on my own for some time (we've only been meeting online so I'm not exposed)


Risks taken:
  • Chose my new work based on the boss and not by salary or distance to work
  • Had tea with a neighbor
  • Hired my sister to babysit our kids a few nights a week (we're paying her almost 1/3 of my salary so that she can get a mortgage)
  • I've heavily outsourced the kids to daycare and relatives, so I'd have capacity to work
  • Got a hobby to the older kid

Played it safe:
  • Chose a gentle seeming boss
  • Focused only on work for three weeks
  • Started working from home as soon as possible

Aspirant
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:57 am
Location: 65 deg north

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Aspirant »

Gongrats on the new job! It will be difficult at first, but gets better when new routines develop.

I should do the 21-day fail list as well... I lolled when I read that (not to you but to my failings). Don't beat yourself with that. The first and most important thing you could have done was to graduate and get a full time job :)

Prioritize life energy management. That will be the scarce resource when having kids and working full time...

ertyu
Posts: 2893
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by ertyu »

Reading your update, I had this thought: make a mental image of what your life would be like if somehow the couple's therapy doesn't work out and things don't get better.

1. How long are you willing to stay in this situation if you knew things would never improve? A year? Five? Ten? Twenty?
2. What if, starting tomorrow, you had only your salary to rely on to take care of your children? How would you live? How would you be able or not able to save?
(*) run this scenario with your salary + any alimony and child support you may be getting
3. Do you miss your husband? What was he contributing that you are now without? What solutions are you devising to compensate?

Taking a week's worth of evenings before you fall asleep to do this doesn't mean you will leave your husband. This is just a fantasy exercise. You may well find at the end of it an increased recommitment to your marriage. The point isn't to plan for divorce but rather to perform this stoic exercise where you imagine what things would be like if a feared scenario came to pass. I am now doing it with never being able to find a job again and never leaving my country. I am still working towards finding a job abroad, so I have not given up. Rather, the purpose of the exercise is to take away the edge of background fear and anxiety that permeates all your actions. In my case, I just did very badly on an interview and after reading the helpful feedback others provided on my journal, I realized that my reaction to the interview situation wasn't rational and the reason was that all my reactions were informed by the background fear of never earning any more money and never leaving my country again. Even if my employment situation is objectively bad (I did badly at my jobs due to burnout and my references are bad, I also quit my last job in the middle because of corona) -- even if i am interviewing from a place of disadvantage, i still should not let that inform how i interview. I should not let it overtake me.

So I recommend a similar mental imagery exercise to you. What if you were to imagine that the worst possible outcome comes to pass? What will you do then? It doesn't have to be a solid plan either, more like a private brainstorming fantasy session. Doing it might really help inform the place from which you confront everyday life.

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

Thank you for your responses Aspirant and ertyu!

Those are some really good questions ertyu. Some I've been thinking about (the worst case scenario mostly...) but not really given it enough focused effort.
I'd say, that If I'm still in this same situation a year from now, I'll have failed myself and my kids.
I think some distance is required at the moment. I see two main routes right now:
1) Dealing with the intolerable behavior -> two separate living spaces
2) Dealing with the root cause of SO's exhaustion -> SO taking time off from work and doing some introspection at therapy or equivalent

Both blow a hole to our savings, 2 more than 1. But option 2 has a higher possible return. It also poses greater risk from my view. But option 1 would basically mean giving up on SO and a future together. We are now trying option 2. I'll give it to the end of 2021. (I'm reminded of ertyu's wise warning on Just Gravy's very empowering journal.)

Maybe there are more options? I appreciate all thoughts on the matter.

On a bit more positive note
Sometimes I feel there is no hope of things ever being better. I'm just not able to grow as a person. (I count candies-eaten by the package, not by piece.)
But when I look back, I see how I've grown as a person. Ten years ago I thought that I needed to earn the right to live.
Now I think that I didn't ask to be alive and I owe no-one anything because of that. I don't need to apologize or make amends for being here and having needs. I still have a responsibility as a human being, but that is different. I'm as valuable or invaluable as any other human being. Worth does not collerate with deeds and accomplishments.
I've passed a crossroad on the journey of self-worth and I'm travelling a more stable path now.

I think I'm reaching another crossroad. Before I concentrated on how can I live with less impact and still look normal. How could I be "covertly eco" so to speak. But today I was just pouring our liquid soap to a "consumer approved" soap dispenser and thought to myself that, "I hate that people might think, that we buy soap like average consumers".
I realized that actually, being secretive about my aspirations, could be worse than being openly consumerist. Because when I don't talk about it or try to "look normal" I'm enforcing the idea of what is considered "normal", and thus making it harder for others to try to do things differently. I'm trying to fit into a group I actually don't want anyone to belong to. If I truly think that no one should sit at that table then why am I sitting there? I should openly sit somewhere else and invite others to do so too.

I've started taking B12 and B9 supplements. I've noticed that I can laugh and cry again. There are other emotions than distress, and they feel great!
This reminds me of the story my SO told me once. That depression is like seeing things in black and white, when life is really like a colorful rug. Just because you can't see the colors doesn't mean they are not there. You just have to try to believe in them and survive. And one day you'll start seeing the colors again.
I've seen the colors shortly from time to time before too, but I've been too afraid to admit it. I feared that even admitting it might make the colors fade. And I still have those black-n-white times. I believe I'll always have them. But I can now admit that I do see colors too.
I think I am now at the stage where I Have feelings but I am not my feelings (and someone denying my right to feeling a certain way, can't change my right to feel them or change my actual feeling).

The sun is shining outside and my therapist has mostly recovered from covid. I'm feeling alive, and happy about it.
Our company had a Diversion and Inclusion week a little while ago and that too influenced me.

Also on the theme of covid: over half of the population of Finland has now had at least one dose of vaccine. Including me. And one thirds has had two doses. Yay!

Hardly a gardener
I've been trying my best with our cabin garden and balcony plants. But the results are still not that great. But we've thrown some money at the problem by buying a lot of new soil and fertilizer. Maybe next year we'll have a real harvest!
This year nettles are our biggest harvest and those are wild plants. From the garden we've harvested some green salad (and some beetroot leaves).
Bugs ate our broccolli but I'm still hopeful.
The spaghetti squash is producing and the other squashes have made huge leaves so maybe they'll produce something too.
I harvested some Rumex longifolius seeds and made bread rolls. That was a success so far.


In short:
Success:
  • Work is fine
  • Started decorating and getting rid of some stuff
  • Got an (unpaid) summer vacation
  • Bought a cargo bike! Best thing ever!
  • Swimming and enjoying the summer days
  • Got some harvest from the garden
  • Garlic planting test seems promising
  • Many squashes are looking good
  • Kids ask two questions when they see plants "what is this?" and "can you eat it?"
  • Nettlepancakes are a weekly treat demanded by the kids
  • SO taking time off from work
  • I now feel like I'm waisting resourses when I'm using a normal bathroom/I've found the joy of (humanure) composting

Room for improvement:
  • Work life balance
  • Sleep schedule
  • Tomatoes still planted too late
  • All cucumber plants wilted due to underwatering
  • How to grow strawberries?!
  • Cabin needs some repairs due to rodents and bees in the structures

Risks taken:
  • Seen more people and invited a new friend over
  • Deliberately underperformed at work to have energy to take care of home and kids
  • Thrown money at problems (savings rate negative)
  • a week at the cabin with the whole family

Played it safe:
  • Thrown money at problems
  • Kids not at daycare during the summer
  • Eating a more animal based and commercial diet

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

Well I feel like a cabbage tossed to a tumble dryer. There's so much thinking and learning to do.

Difficulties on staying employed
As covid is easing up here, the society is opening up and my employer is requiring everyone to return to the office.
After a month, "the old employees" can start working from home for max two days per week.
Unfortunately I'm not an old employee as I just started here this year.
I protested this to my boss since I was promised that I can work from home at least a few days a week when I was hired.
But my boss replied that I can apply for 80% hours like the rest of the parents.
Maybe some day I'll learn that agreements that are not on paper mean nothing.
Now I've been scavenging around trying to find places to stuff my kids to while I go to office.
And every day I think "If only I had enough FU money" or "If only I was already FI".
These years when the kids are small are the most important for future development so if I could buy more freedom, I would. But there's no use in blaming my past self for being too lazy on this matter. The current me just has to work extra hard for the future me. But then again the kids are young now and the need for time is now...


Rant on electronics and data safety
Also my phone broke and I've been using our old tablet to communicate. I'm finding that I only miss easily checking what time it is and being able to take photos. First I also missed being able to communicate with modern people who only use chat apps, but using the old tablet fixed that issue.
Actually using the tablet to chat is great: now I can't just randomly start chatting, I need to sit down to write. This is a good baby step away from chat apps ruling my life.

We're required to get headphones for our kids so that they can play educational games in their school.
I've decided to not think about this issue further. Otherwise I'd be tormented by the thoughts that the kids sit looking at screens and that "free education" forces us to buy things. (That's not free and it creates discrimination!) And that they sign our kids up to who knows what games and apps that probably have questionable security and maybe even questionable content...Nope, I don't have energy for this. I'll just get the cheapest cute headphones (probably made with child labor) I can find and forget about this (until the headphones break or get stolen).
Talk about burying my head and whole upper torso in the sand. Any words of wisdom fellow parents?
Maybe I should rise to the barricades over this issue and fight for those who can't, but I'm not sure if I'm really strong enough.

I already wrote to my kids swimming practice that they can't publish the kids names on their webpage, at least without consent. So now the've added a box to tick for consent on their application form. (I count that as a win.)
I also complained to their skating group because they where streaming the skating practice online. I mean it's nice to think about the parents who can't come to the skating ring (because of covid restrictions). But you can't share online anything of other peoples children without consent. And the stream was viewable by anyone... I also told them that it's not okay that they share all the parents and kids addresses and phone numbers automatically to other parents and kids. Nonprofit or not, you have to have some sense in what your doing...
Well they stopped the streaming and let us parents into the ice ring to watch the practice and they updated their application forms and wrote to their registry provider about the issues. (So I guess that's a win too?)

Yeah, I'm turning into a complaining geezer. Or an angry mob? :twisted:

"Now is not the time to be complacent! We should do something!
Something is lurking, something is near
Something is feeling stranger, stranger
Stirring up discord, whipping up fear
Whispering softly, 'danger, danger!' " [from MLP A New Generation movie. No-one? Fine. But it's on youtube too, if you're interested.]


Cognitive dissonance about the future
I knew I mostly acted out of selfish reasons and in denial when I had kids.
I've been reading Deep Adaptation stuff again and watching Guy McPhersons videos and having a really hard time with myself for brining kids into this world. I'm not as good a parent I hoped I'd be and I'm definitely not teaching my kids how to live with minimum impact.


Looking on the bright side
(Almost) everything is (still) awesome. Maybe I could try to frame my life that way.
We have an apartment (well 50% of it is still the banks but I digress..) that's tolerable range cost and location wise.
SO is happy working on the cabin. They'll be installing air source heat pump there soon to try and lower the electricity bill. The cabin is a "luxury" version, it has indoor plumbing and can't be left without basic heating.
We managed to grow some herbs and pumpkins and squash and radishes this year. This year the seedling phase went great put planting them failed and watering and nursing them later failed. Improvement nonetheless.
Picked enough raspberries to make some jam. Also made strawberry jam that turned out good.
Already started on the fall activities of the garden and balcony, so on schedule with that.
We've managed to not to dip into our long term savings even though we've been employing my sister as a babysitter. We're getting closer to that point tough, and need to take a good look at our finances. I'm guessing the babysitting, cabin, housing, the hobbies and sugar are the biggest expenses. Also our electricity and phone plans need to be checked. My work travel has been minimal and mostly reimbursed by employer.


Ode to cargo bike
So we finally bought a used cargo bike this summer. Every day I'm thinking what's wrong with us. Why didn't we buy this sooner?!
The amount of mobility it has given me and the kids is astounding!
Few years back I pushed the kids in a trolley through rain and sleet for 3 km every day to get to the daycare. That lasted for half a year (Yes, I mean the sleet). It would have been a pleasant endeavor with a cargo bike!
Now I laugh as we go to swimming practice that is 6 km away, because it's so easy. I just haul the gear and the kids in to the cargo bikes box and start paddling. No looking at time tables, no listening to whining about too long walks, no trying to fit everything on my back or trying to fit stuff to a trolleys miniscule basket. It's awesome!
SO installed some lights on the bike (since they are mandatory now). The cargo bike already had a detachable hood for the box, so now I can cycle even in the cold, wet and dark days! How have I managed without this great invention?


In short:
Success:
  • Still employed
  • Still working from home
  • Kids teachers are at the moment pleased with them
  • Got hobbies for my kids and they like it
  • Used the cargo bike for over 200 km during the summer (biked for 0 km last year)
  • Didn't just go and buy a new phone
  • Put up some shelfs and now floor is visible on some rooms (yay!)
  • Donated some things

Room for improvement:
  • Being on time
  • Staying focused
  • Getting to bed in time
  • Eating healthy
  • Savings!
  • Not wasting food
  • Staying calm when kids are unjust to each other
  • Giving positive attention to SO
  • Dividing attention between kids

Risks taken:
  • Paying for hobbies
  • Talking back to my boss about the work from home situation ending
  • Enlisting my kid for a day camp
  • Driving on the bike for 25 km on a Saturday (excellent idea, a really fun trip)
  • Driving on the bike for 20 km on a Wednesday evening (not a good idea)
  • Swimming in a river that said "do not swim or drink" (too much e.coli in the water, didn't get sick though)
  • A kid only sleepover (an extra kid here actually made things easier!)

Played it safe:
  • Asked for help with the kids hobbies
  • Using public childcare services a lot
  • Still not accepting difficult tasks at work (to save energy for home)
  • Mostly living on ready made foods (and sugar)

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

Year 2021 finances (12/2021 situation)
Average spending 4900eur/month or 5500USD/month (+40%)
Average income 5300eur/month or 6000USD/month (+30%)
Spending total 62000eur (+51%)
Income total 63300eur (+29%)
Savings rate 2% (-88%)

12/2021
Kids:
Cash: 3 000€ (-38% since 12/2020)
Bonds: 17 000€ (+40% since 12/2020)

On track with the kids. As expected.

Current wealth (for both of us adults):
Liquid assets:
Cash: 11 000€ (-35% since 12/2020)
Funds: 14 800€ (+43% since 12/2020)
Shares: 33 800€ (+57% since 12/2020)
=59 600 € (+24% since 12/2020)

Non-liquid assets:
Unlisted shares: 3 000€ (+40% since 12/2020)
Debenture: 3 000€ (no change)
Misc: 10 000€ (no change)
Voluntary pension insurance: 13 800€ (payout earliest after 2055)
=16 000€

Liabilities:
Mortage (home): -66 500€ (-5% since 12/2020)
Mortage (cabin): -29 000€ (-10% since 12/2020)
Student loan: -7 600€ (-30% since 12/2020)
= -103 200€ (-9% since 12/2020)

Networth (money towards ERE):
59600€+16000€-103200€= -27 600€ (+45% since 12/2020)

Normal networth:
59600€+16000+13800€+210000€-103200€= 196 200€ (+3% since 12/2020)

Year 2022 finances (10/2022 situation)

10/2022
Kids:
Cash: 3 000€ (+0% since 12/2020)
Bonds: 16 000€ (-6% since 12/2020)

Still on track with the kids but market fluctuations can be seen.

Current wealth (for both of us adults):
Liquid assets:
Cash: 11 000€ (+0% since 12/2021)
Funds: 12 700€ (-13% since 12/2021)
Shares: 33 200€ (-1% since 12/2021)
=56 900 € (-5% since 12/2021)

Non-liquid assets:
Unlisted shares: 3 000€ (no change)
Debenture: 0€ (duration ended)
Misc: 10 000€ (no change)
Voluntary pension insurance: ???€ (payout earliest after 2055)
=16 000€

Liabilities:
Mortage (home): -63 900€ (-4% since 12/2021)
Mortage (cabin): -26 700€ (-8% since 12/2021)
Student loan: -7 600€ (-0% since 12/2021)
= -98 300€ (-5% since 12/2021)

Networth (money towards ERE):
56900€+16000€-98300€= -25 400€ (+8%since 12/2021)

Normal networth:
56900€+16000+13800€+210000€-98300€= 198 400€ (+1% since 12/2021)


Estimated base income per month for 2022(after tax):
Full time job: 2200€
Unemployment benefits or similar:1000€
Meeting remunerations: 30€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
Dividends: 40€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
=3270€

Target expenses 2022: 36 000€ or 3000€/month

I've been delaying this post....I was hoping for big changes this year. I hoped I'd have something good to report to ertyu. :oops:
I made a plan to stick in this situation till the end of 2021 and then I'd find a new living arrangement if things didn't change. Alas here we still are.
My SO has been unemployed over a year now due to health issues and it seem likely SO will never be fully employed again.
I'm still torn regarding the housing situation.
We cannot keep going on like this, yet I fear the alternatives.
I’m trying to figure out if there’s a way to make this financially smart and not only a necessity for our health.

We continued having my sister as a nanny, which was heavy on our finances but the help was very needed. We had to terminate the arrangement at the end of spring due to financial constraints.
I've really ignored all finances this year, so I'm actually positively surprised that our net worth hasn't plummeted. Thank you markets!

"I'm useless but not for long
The future is coming on"
-Gorillaz

In short:
Success:
  • Still employed
  • Feeling like there might be a plan at the end of this tunnel
  • Fixed some socks
  • Made bread
  • Made multiple foods with a Russian oven
  • Still loving the cargo bike
  • Some reconnecting with an old friend

Room for improvement:
  • Dealing with cassandra syndrome?
  • Dealing with my emotions
  • Dealing with kids emotions
  • Keeping up routines

Risks taken:
  • Got the pet bunnies the kids have been asking for. They are good at shifting stress from other things to property damage. :roll:
  • Asked for a raise at work. Got promised the minimum raise and also the input that my performance hasn't been increasing as expected and that I've been on sick leaves too much.

Played it safe:
  • Took extra time off work to process things

Aspirant
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:57 am
Location: 65 deg north

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Aspirant »

How is your family doing? I have missed your journaling. The mostly US based journals are not reflecting the situation in our country, so I am looking forward to your posts.

The crisis hit my finances quite hard, since I had low savings rate to start with. Now with the inflation and food and energy costs rising, I am starting to wait for the payday to make ends meet.

Vaikeasti
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Vaikeasti to ERE - Family Journal

Post by Vaikeasti »

Hey, Aspirant! (And others too!)

So nice of you to ask. I’ve been thinking about you and the other forumites too. I wish your family is well.

I've been busy and not at all ERE lately. A lot has happened in the world and events have not affected us in a good way.

Year 2022 I was pushing to get SO to doctors and get him benefits and keep the daily life going and still get some work done. I threw money at problems, bought everything new etc.

At the beginning of 2023 we had a few months when SO didn’t get benefits and I thought that was stressful. (Ha!) But we had enough emergency funds to keep things as we’d been used to. I didn't do any adjusting to our spending. (Still haven't.) After that I was off work for a few months due to being so exhausted.
In the summer an old friend visited and then ended up staying for a week. The Friend helped with chores and the kids, comforted me and made life seem more manageable and even fun again at times. I felt alive again and really enjoyed the company, as did the kids and SO.
The Friend has been coming back somewhat regularly and my sisters have also been helping out. Work load was also low in the fall so life was alright.

But at the end of the year I got laid off. In the second round of some huge change negotiations, around 5% of our staff got laid off. (In Finland a company can't just throw people out, they have to negotiate with the employees first.)
I'd been ignoring this risk and didn't join an union when I got employed. So now I'm not getting the better unemployment benefits from them.
To make ends meet I applied to a lot of places and now I'm working 3 days a week in a warehouse. The colleagues are nice and the work is simple and physical, so it could be worse. I actually like it there.
Three days a week at the warehouse means around 1000e/month so it's not enough to make ends meet.
SO is still on sick leave but thanks to being unionized still gets 1500e/month.

Also we got our car fixed and then soon after it broke down again. So now we are going through the process of estimating what to do with the old one and probably getting a new used car. SO wishes for the Tesla so we'll see about that.

The kids are doing alright, they have friends and a hobby each and seem healthy and balanced.
The bunnies are also doing alright, they keep helping us with getting rid of extra stuff by chewing everything. :D

Year 2023 finances (12/2023 situation)
Average spending 5300eur/month or 5700USD/month (+8% since 2021)
Average income 5050eur/month or 5400USD/month (-5% since 2021)
Spending total 63500eur (+2%)
Income total 61000eur (-4%)
Savings rate -4%

12/2023
Kids:
Cash: 2 000€ (-34% since 2022)
Bonds: 20 000€ (+25% since 2022)

Still on track with the kids. Boring is good.

Current wealth (for both of us adults):
Liquid assets:
Cash: 1500€ (-87% since 2022)
Funds: 13 700€ (+8% since 2022)
Shares: 31 000€ (-1% since 2022)
=46 200 € (-19% since 2022)

Non-liquid assets:
Unlisted shares: 2 200€ (no change)
Misc: 10 800€ (no change)
Voluntary pension insurance: 13 800€ (payout earliest after 2055)
=16 000€

Liabilities:
Mortage (home): -60 100€ (-6% since 2022)
Mortage (cabin): -22 300€ (-17% since 2022)
Student loan: -6 150€ (-20% since 2022)
= -88 550€ (-5% since 12/2021)

Networth (money towards ERE):
46200€+16000€-88500€= -26 300€ (-4% since 2022)

Normal networth:
46200€+16000+13000€+180000€-88500€= 152 300€ (-30% since 2022)

Target expenses 2024: 30 600€ or 2550€/month ("barebones edition"; without car expenses and leisure spending)
Apartment
Apartment 508e
Loan 450e
Internet 21.9e
Water 57e
Electricity 45e
Phones 60
Insurance 17
1158.9e

Cabin
Cabin tax 25e
Loan 310e
Internet (included in phones)
Water 30e
Electricity 90e
Insurance 26e
Garbage etc 10e
491e

Other
Student loan 142e
Hobby1 26e
Hobby2 13e
Bookbeat 23e
Public transport 50e
Food etc 500e
Medicine 100e
854e

Total expenses: 2503.9e

Estimated base income per month for 2024 (after tax):
Part time job: 1000€
Unemployment benefits or similar: 1500€
Meeting remunerations: 20€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
Dividends: 60€ (calculated from estimated yearly total)
=2580€

I'm pretty sure we'll end up selling some shares this year to cover expenses, since I'm not feeling any more energetic than before. But it's nice to know that in theory we'd keep the house and the cabin with the current income. We'd just have no car to get to the cabin... details :lol:

I wish you all a better new year!

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