Frita’s journal

[horsewoman]

It is indeed hard to treat a job like a hobby, at least it is the way for me with my non-physical office job. I don't seem to have this problem with trade work (everything to do either with tailoring or horses). Curious!

If the non-profit hires you, why not give it a try? Maybe it is indeed a better fit for you, since teaching comes with so much BS attached.

[Alphaville]

FYI from my decades-long experience working with non-profits, a lot of the effort is dedicated not to "the cause" itself, but to fundraising.

Also, fundraising tends to follow the economy, but perhaps more pronouncedly as it depends on rich people's disposable income. One day flush, the next day gone. I've seen many operations and positions fold due to changes in funding, grants ending, Bernie Madoff emptying their coffers, etc.

By this I don't mean "avoid," btw. I tend to be like @7w5, where my "advice" (if you can call it that) is more conservative than my own personal decisions. She spoke of her kids, I do this with everyone-- I don't want others to suffer my adventurous misfortunes because then they blame me for sending them into danger

Anyway, I'm just recommending a level of hedging to the situation in the face of a possible yes. Greener grass effect-- all places have hidden problems.

But I'm assuming since you do ERE you're not going to tightly couple your livelihood to this income stream, so my caution is probably useless. Nevertheless, I had to share. The vaccine effect is good when entering new enterprises, so if you don't expect the Land of Cockaigne you're more likely to fare well in the long term.

Me, I'm a lifelong nomad, so I always jump the fence to the tasty next-door lawn. This of course has its own pitfalls, but I'm willing to live with them for the pleasure of exploration. Shiny objects! I'm the one who touches the museum displays

Anyway, the impression the nonprofit interview seems psychologically saner, and you seem to be burned out on education. I'd go for the new especially if I were bored with current path, plus you could always return to education if you really miss it. No?

[Frita]

Some of the life's most important decisions -

Finding the right spouse
Choosing a place to live
Working with people you enjoy.

This is so true. Working with people I enjoy has been illusive the last few moves (all during my 40s). It is interesting to work with folks who are miserable and think that’s the way it is. I have been fortunate to work with some great people really making a difference over the years. That said, education has changed.

@horsewoman
What makes trade work viewable through a hobby lense? Is it because you have more control over when you work, enjoy the tailoring and horsetrade more than office work, or something else?

I think I have got to the point where I realize I need to do something other than public education (K-12, uni). There will really be no going back. Perhaps a little part-time director gig could be enjoyable and meaningful. We’ll see how it goes.

@Alphaville
I have zero need to earn another dime from working ever. (If anything, we could stop being so frugal and/or donate more money...The latter is tricky but off topic.) Suddenly, just paying me isn’t enough to be in a bad environment or go along with unethical behavior. (It never was; however, I notice the needed funds are what traps people.) The states’ economic downturns and my age do not help.

All places have downfalls, yes. It’s a matter of knowing what is and isn’t a dealbreaker. What I have observed with non-profits is that pay can be poor with non-existent to slim benefits plus stress from nepotism, martyrdom, and grant seeking/maintenance. From what I understand, the organization is supported by a foundation and cooperative payments by members. There would be working with the Board, keeping members happy, light marketing, etc. I hadn’t thought of fundraising until your post, oof! I will clarify at the interview and get a better sense of the culture.

I don’t know that I was ever burnt out in the traditional sense. I always cared about my students, worked hard, and served them well. Perhaps a better term would be disillusioned?

[horsewoman]

I have been pondering this the whole day on and off but I'm still not sure, why. The obvious difference is of course, in my office job I work with my head while in my trades I work with my head and my body. Maybe having a tangible result (either sewn goods or clean stables, bales of hay and happy horses) is a reward in itself, which (low-level) "mind-work" does nor offer?
A hobby is something one enjoys, so maybe these rewards make the work more enjoyable, and thus it is viewed more easily as a hobby? Hmmmm!? Still not sure!

[Frita]

@horsewoman
In my mind, a hobby job is something one would do for free or gladly does without pay. (As c_L noted, if one no longer enjoys the hobby job, one takes a break/quits/does something different.) Seeing tangible results, like your sewing masks and happy horses, makes sense. What one gets out of it probably would depend on the person. I like to work/volunteer with fun, kind people and make a social justice impact. With the turmoil at your office, I would have a tough time seeing it as a hobby. Do you think it’s the work, atmosphere, or both?

Perhaps some people define a hobby job differently though. I have met some people, especially traditionally older retired people, who pick up a job for something to do or to meet people. One early-retired teacher friend wants a part-time job at a dress shop to wear her fabulous and dressy clothing. Or sometimes folks just want some “mad money” to spend recklessly instead of tapping into savings. These seem like valid reasons but aren’t my motivation.

[Alphaville]

if you want a quick disillusion from the nonprofit industry, read “the revolution will not be funded”

https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Will- ... 0822369001

/me ducks

[Frita]

@Alphaville, thanks, it’s on my reading list.

[classical_Liberal]

@Frita
wrt to viewing a job as a hobby

It's not that there will be no unpleasant circumstances. Just about anything a person does that contributes to society or produces value will have some unpleasantness. If my hobby was building furniture I'm sure there would be the occasional bout of anger, frustration, and swearing on my part. The key is that when this happens, it's time to walk away and take a break. Maybe just focus on another part of the job for awhile, or maybe walk away from the job in totality. Because frustration tends to bread more frustration.

Now, in nursing I can't just walk away in a the middle of a shift. However, I can learn to understand my limitations, and of how much nursing tends to breed discontent in me. Also, learning that having some control as to WHEN to do any type of activity can make a big difference too. So while I may have a bad day, as long as that bad day doesn't develop into a bad month, it's still an OK hobby.

IOW, Benefit/enjoyment >frustration. As long as money is not counted in the benefit side of this equation, then I would consider it a hobby. The difference is that in a job, money/livelihood is a huge part of the benefit. I do think being able to see a finished product, or see a change made, has a huge impact on the benefit side.

Edited to add: I think both of us see teaching/nursing as what it could be or what it used to be, not what it is. This is where a lot of our frustration comes in. I have decided I either need to accept it for what it is, and try to max those positive opportunities, or just stop doing it.

[Frita]

Edited to add: I think both of us see teaching/nursing as what it could be or what it used to be, not what it is. This is where a lot of our frustration comes in. I have decided I either need to accept it for what it is, and try to max those positive opportunities, or just stop doing it.

Guilty as charged! I don’t know that I can accept it as it is so it’s sadly time to go. There is no changing the situation, nor can I accept it as is. I suppose such decline and change is painful for most people. It would have been preferable to figure it out sooner. That said, I am moving on and trying to figure it out.

[horsewoman]

C_l solved the riddle - it's the ability to walk away at will that separates the two! In my office job, where I'm employed with health care and benefits I need to give notice and still stay on for three months time (this is quite the usual thing in Germany). Sewing is a side hustle, so I can walk away with little notice, and the horse business was on my own turf, giving me full control.
Seems like I didn't see the forest for the trees

[Frita]

@horsewoman
And it circles back to freedom!

[Frita]

My state is in financial dire straits. Several years ago, just prior to moving back, funding was cut by up to 50% depending on the department. Now another similar cut needs to happen with 20% across the board occurring this month. I think this makes for a lean job market with ongoing hiring freezes in higher ed. I am too expensive for non-charter K-12. Non-connected, overeducated, middle-aged women are not in demand around here. (This is not a pity party, just how it is.)

Anyway, I was offered the half-time nonprofit director job at $20/hour and no benefits whatsoever. (There is no fundraising involved which @Alphaville warned me about and would be a bad fit for me.) This is actually a decent part-time gig around here and seems like a low-stress hobby job. As my spouse said, I can keep looking and/or always quit.

Perhaps my ego is taking a blow with my downward career trajectory. Maybe actually getting an offer is spooking me as I haven’t always made great employment decisions. I didn’t get any bad vibes, although the Board struck me as frugal (not necessarily a bad thing as I am frugal too). I did end the interview process wanting the position and was willing to accept if it paid at least $18/hour without benefits. I need to get back to them by Friday morning. Any thoughts?

[classical_Liberal]

Try it if you think you'll like it. I think the lions share of enjoyment from a job like this will likely depend on what kind of people you interact with and if you enjoy those interactions. I think it's pretty easy to let the ego problem go if you are actually satisfied with your life situation. Like having a part time time that you sort-of enjoy. I mean, If my nursing pay got cut by 70%, and I still didn't like the job, SCREW THAT, I know what I'm worth. But if I enjoyed it, that's a different story completely.

Give yourself an ultimatum though, if you're not liking it after three months quit. IOW, before you become burnt and tempted to leave on less than stellar terms. I think that's enough time to see if your going to enjoy it. Afterall, this is a hobby, remember?

[Frita]

@c_L
Thanks, you are the forum guru on hobby jobs! Giving it three months to evaluate as thumbs up or thumbs down, enjoy or not, stay or go, is a deal.

Edit: I just realized why I am nervous about this. I am moving on, outside of education, accepting things as they are, and giving up on some imagined future.

[Alphaville]

Anyway, I was offered the half-time nonprofit director job at $20/hour and no benefits whatsoever. (There is no fundraising involved which @Alphaville warned me about and would be a bad fit for me.) This is actually a decent part-time gig around here and seems like a low-stress hobby job. As my spouse said, I can keep looking and/or always quit.

hey! did you say yes? say yes!

what’s the worst that could happen?

i jest, i jest. a meteorite could fall on your office just when you sit there. or a sinkhole would open up. or maybe it’s a front for the mafia.

but seriously, if you just wanna keep connected and active, why would you say no to some paid activity and new experiences?

am i late with my answer?

ps- ego schmego! one feels better being useful to others. forget the idea of the self. careers are for squares!

[ertyu]

I would like to chime in, don't interpret this as "downward career trajectory" interpret it as movement to freedom! You're trying out being outside education and you're trying out working part time with the ability to walk out. Give yourself a pat on the back. Teaching jobs will always be there. In comparison, it's one of the easiest careers to return to.

[Frita]

Thanks, @Alphaville and @ertyu, I am going to accept tomorrow. If nothing else, it will be an in-town adventure and learning experience. Unless something has changed, I will start July 20th.

[ertyu]

Yay!

[Alphaville]

Unless something has changed, I will start July 20th.

happy moon landing, and stay clear of covid!

[classical_Liberal]

@c_L
Thanks, you are the forum guru on hobby jobs!

You're putting too much pressure on me!

Well, YOU inspired ME to apply for a couple of different jobs today, as I'm still not really looking forward to hospital nursing again.