iopsi's Journal

[iopsi]

First general infos.
Age: 27.
Country: Italy.
Job: Bookkeeping business.
Yearly income: 11k euros.
Net worth: 11k in a bank account, part ownership of said business, part ownership of a country house (not sure how much value i would give it).

So here goes my journal, where i'll keep track of my progress (financial and otherwise), write my thoughts and anecdotes.

Even though i don't necessarily want to retire completely (for now at least), i want to create a passive income capable of covering all my expenses. I'll probably go with dividend investing.
I'll start to do (rather simple) valuations and post them here in the hope to receive some feedback.

I also enjoy to live with as little as possible (with some exception), i'll try to spend no more than 10% of my yearly income. Considering that i live with my parents, it should be easy to spend even less.
If i couldn't live with my parents, i'll probably live in a van or a shared apartment or something like that. But since part of our country home is mine, i can live there just in case, so the housing problem is solved for now.

As far as food goes, i follow a whole foods plant-based diet for the most part. With a bit of whole granis, legumes, vegetables, nuts & seeds and fruits, and lastly vit. D and B12 supplements.
Tho sometimes i enjoy the occasional meat, fish and cheese.
Overall i think i spend between 60 and 80 euros a month for food. I'll start to keep track of it more precisely and document it in this journal.
Eventually i plan to start growing some vegetables to become less dependent on the market for food.

I don't have a car and don't plan to buy one, i move around mostly with my bike. Rarely, i "need" to take my parents car though.
Sometimes i think that it would be nice to have my own electric motorcycle.

I want to decouple at least the fundamental needs (food + shelter + transportation + water) as much as possible from the market, since i don't have much faith that humanity will be able to respond effectively to climate change, resource depletion ecc.

So far the real biggest expense has been social life, going out with friends ecc.. My frugality has actually created some problems with certain friends, such as my unwillingness to go to clubs, expensive restaurants (even tho i enjoy them, so i can accept going occasionally) and similar things.
I'm not sure how to solve this, but for sure i'm not going back to a more wasteful lifestyle.
Dating is also a problem, since not only i've not found a girl willing to date me for more than a month, but i've also never found one even slightly in line with my thinking and lifestyle choices. Do young frugal girls even exist?! I'm ok being single, but i wouldn't dislike to have a supportive partner.

Another goal is to get an economics degree and become an auditor or tax advisor, so that i could offer more advanced services instead of just bookkeeping. Increasing the 'income per hour' while decreasing 'expenses per hour'.

I think that's all for now, i'll try to update the journal regularly.

[Jason]

Dating is also a problem, since not only i've not found a girl willing to date me for more than a month, but i've also never found one even slightly in line with my thinking and lifestyle choices. Do young frugal girls even exist?! I'm ok being single, but i wouldn't dislike to have a supportive partner.

This seems to be a theme amongst those in your age group on the board, irregardless of geographical location. I am assuming there is a connection between your average relationship length and philosophical differences.

Coming to know about Italy through my wife's family and reading Seppia, it does seem to have numerous cultural idiosyncrasies distinct to itself. And from what I understand, despite its image with the Valentino and the thunderbolt and the passion murders and the Operas with beautiful young women singing about dying from lung ailments, it seems like a particularly difficult place to get laid.

[prognastat]

Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things to get off to a great start and already have 1 year of expenses saved up so keep up the good work.

As long as you are putting in effort and making time for friends I don't think it's unfair to expect them to meet in the middle and expect you to go outside of your comfort zone regularly. Try to meet them in ways that work for you, but emphasise quality time together. If this doesn't work for them you'll need to decide if you actually have enough in common to be close friends or if you are actually acquaintances. If they are your friends they should enjoy spending time with you even if you aren't regularly going to expensive outings with them. Try doing things like having movie or game nights with them, do potlucks, go sightseeing in your town, maybe do some kind of sport with them etc. A good friend would appreciate quality time regardless of other factors.

Dating can be tough since you are adding a pretty severe bottle neck by wanting a frugal partner that's sensible with money. However I can also tell you that being in a relationship with someone that is actively working against your goals isn't fun either. It sounds like you've got a good mindset though in that you are ok with being single if you don't have a supporting partner.

I look forward to hearing how you progress in future updates.

[iopsi]

This seems to be a theme amongst those in your age group on the board, irregardless of geographical location. I am assuming there is a connection between your average relationship length and philosophical differences.

Coming to know about Italy through my wife's family and reading Seppia, it does seem to have numerous cultural idiosyncrasies distinct to itself. And from what I understand, despite its image with the Valentino and the thunderbolt and the passion murders and the Operas with beautiful young women singing about dying from lung ailments, it seems like a particularly difficult place to get laid.

Actually not that much of a connection. Those few times i dated it never went long enough for me (neither the girl i suppose) to show "my true self" in a sense, and therefore the peculiar aspects of my views.

I think the real connection is between my lifestyle and the small number of girls that were (even if briefly) willing to date me.
Based on my observations (so might not be completely accurate), most local girls seem to flock to certain type of guys: fashion-focused, athletic/skinny, have expensive hair cuts (i shave lol), always frequent clubs, and are popular on social media (bonus points if they play in one of the local soccer teams).
I check only the athletic requirement.

My interests and qualities seem to be completely out of sync with the local culture and since this is a relatively small town (60/70k people), there isn't much else going on.
But to be honest that's to be expected, after all consumerism, and everything that goes with it, is the/one of the dominant cultural aspects of the western world (at least as long as it will be viable).

As long as you are putting in effort and making time for friends I don't think it's unfair to expect them to meet in the middle and expect you to go outside of your comfort zone regularly. Try to meet them in ways that work for you, but emphasise quality time together. If this doesn't work for them you'll need to decide if you actually have enough in common to be close friends or if you are actually acquaintances. If they are your friends they should enjoy spending time with you even if you aren't regularly going to expensive outings with them. Try doing things like having movie or game nights with them, do potlucks, go sightseeing in your town, maybe do some kind of sport with them etc. A good friend would appreciate quality time regardless of other factors.

Yeah trying to "meet in the middle" seems a good compromise. Being part of a group has value but also has its costs.
Not all of them are completely opposed to this lifestyle btw, so that makes things a bit easier.

[iopsi]

So 2018 ends with 13k in the bank.

Lost one of the two clients of the business but luckily found another, which is less remunerative but thanks to having cut office costs (the office is now our home lol) the profits are the same.
My FI number is between 100k and 150k* roughly, making 11k a year is just not enough if i want to be FI at 30. I need at least another 2k per month, so that i'll make 30k+ yearly. For this i'll need another 4 or 5 clients.
Right now i'm finishing the website, after that i think i'll start to create a presence in the social media platforms. But i'm not sure if that is the right outlet for a company that does bookkeeping, administrative and fiscal stuff in general. I'm not expert on marketing

During 2019 my spending should be lower, since i no longer have the gym membership (i bought a barbell, weights and a squat rack at the start of 2018, but i had already paid the yearly membership by that point), improved my diet (in monetary terms) and i'll (try to) spend much less for going out (spent 1400 overall for going out... more than i thought, definitely too much).

* Of course this assumes that i can have a 3/5 % real return on that sum, which is not necessarily guaranteed. I still haven't invested any money and the stock market seems to be very overvalued overall... maybe it's better to wait for a correction?
Also since real estate are generally better as cash-generating assets, that might be the best route to take. Though, with my small capital, better to focus on just making more money, investing will come later.

On a side note, 2/3k per month here in central Italy is a greater than average salary (average being like 1300/1500) and generally considered pretty good... which is laughable compared to what many of the forum members from the US make. I guess the higher cost of living compensate a bit for this, but i doubt it's that much higher than here.
This country is becoming poorer by the year tbh.


Also this year i'll go back to the home in the countryside, which is 13km from the town where i live now. Since part of the road is not paved, my current city bike (which is already in bad shape) won't do. I think i'll buy a mountain bike.
Lately i've also looked at recumbent bikes, has as anyone here tried them?


The situation with those friends who had a problem with my spending choices (regarding going out) is improved. Now they are more cool with it and don't make a fuss if i decline to go to the club, or eat out at the restaurant 2/3 nights in a row, etc (i'm fine eating out once a week, or twice if the place is cheap, but more than that is too much).
Went on a date with a girl, didn't went well, neither i clicked with her nor her with me. Now i'm talking with another one, i'll see if she accepts a date.

[niemand]

Coming to know about Italy through my wife's family and reading Seppia, [...] it seems like a particularly difficult place to get laid.

Hmm... not so sure about this. Italy ranks no. 3 in the world’s most sexually satisfied countries ranking.

[Seppia]

Italy is indeed a much harder place to get laid VS other places, especially the smaller towns.
Clearly, living with your parents doesn't help, both in terms of image and number of opportunities, but something has to give if one wants to save good amounts of money on an average Italian salary.

Keep it up iopsi, there's a ton of great ladies out there, at your age they may seem to look for other types, but the older you will get, the sexier you being stable and secure will look.

In bocca al lupo

[Jason]

You have to think when conducting such a poll, the timing of the question significantly impacts the response.

[iopsi]

Went on a date with a girl, didn't went well, neither i clicked with her nor her with me. Now i'm talking with another one, i'll see if she accepts a date.

So, asked the latter girl if she wanted to go on a date.. turns out she has a boyfriend. Talked with me for three days, only now she tells me that. Wtf.

Also re-contacted the former girl (because she was making ambigous instagram stories, me and my friends thought she might want to f*ck).. she initially accepted to see me (at like midnight) and i was getting all my hopes up... then she refused at the last second.
So unreliable.

Italy is indeed a much harder place to get laid VS other places, especially the smaller towns.
Clearly, living with your parents doesn't help, both in terms of image and number of opportunities, but something has to give if one wants to save good amounts of money on an average Italian salary.

Keep it up iopsi, there's a ton of great ladies out there, at your age they may seem to look for other types, but the older you will get, the sexier you being stable and secure will look.

In bocca al lupo

Thank you.

I don't think living with parents is too much of a negative point (for getting laid). Pretty much all of my friends also live with parents (those who get laid and those who dont) and so do the girls in general.

And tbh getting laid is not my main focus right now... my mind is much more concerned about the small amount of money i'm making than anything else :/

------------

Lately i've thought about living mobile, in a van, rv or caravan. And at the same time thought about how nice it would be to have an electric van that can be charged by solar panels in that same van.
So essentially an energy-and-fuel self-sufficient mobile home.
Turns out there are two guys who did it (google Route Del Sol), so it is feasible. The only problem being that their electric van costs 150k. I wonder if it is possible with more affordable vans (like the nissan electric, costs 20k and less if one can find it used).

Just a thought i wanted to share.

[Kriegsspiel]

So, asked the latter girl if she wanted to go on a date.. turns out she has a boyfriend. Talked with me for three days, only now she tells me that. Wtf.

She was deciding whether to cheat on her boyfriend with you or not.

[Jason]

Or maybe she just made him up which raises the possibility that you might have been passed over for someone who doesn't exist. I'm not sure if that's worse than being passed over for someone who actually exists. Probably need 7W5 for that type of question.

[iopsi]

Hmm both things are possible. It's not clear from her instagram that she has a bf, but maybe she hides this purposefully.
Like one of my friends, he has a gf but never put pictures of her (or them togheter) in his profile. So that he can cheat more easily if the occasion arises.
Since obviuosly many girls wont accept to date if they know the guy is engaged.

[Cheepnis]

Remember all these mixed signals or unclear statements of intent have little to do with you personally. All people play ridiculous games with themselves when it comes to dating, I could never figure it out. I think most people have less of an idea of what they want than they let on which leads to a giant convoluted mess of misinterpretations, unclear motives, and confusion. You gotta roll with the punches.

When I was "in the game" I pretty much just decided to go out there and get rag dolled through the machine. It was hard to keep my head up when things never seemed to go anywhere regardless if a date went well or not. In particular, I had two first dates that turned into all day events, each of which my date was the first to offer an extension and ultimately both asked me over (one I went over the other she came over). One we watched a movie and snuggled (I had no choice in the matter seeing as she throw herself on me, though I was totally 100% OK with it) and the other we talked and then made out/petted for a long while.

After the movie was over (we had been slowly getting more cozy throughout) I made a move for a kiss and then she was up and out the door almost that fast. To this day I'm a little confused if I was too aggressive (when it comes right down to it I still have very little experience in the whole "move making" thing) The making out date ended with what seemed like mutual statements of interest in doing this again soon. Both dates were followed by total radio silence. Never saw or heard from them again. Both were internet dates from OKcupid and both ladies had "looking for a relationship" selected on their profile.

That sort of stuff was so confusing and frustrating for me. The one thing I learned is when you meet someone who's actually into you all bets are off. There's no waiting a few days so as not to scare them off or "I'm also seeing someone else so I want to keep this casual for now" games. They'll just be all over you (and hopefully you over them). I'd recommend going out there just looking to meet some people to spend a little time with, learn a few things, perhaps get a little on the side if both parties are interested, and when someone who's into you actually comes along there won't be any questioning it. In my experience if there's a question or any "signals" that need "analyzing" it means they're not into you and I would have kept much more of my sanity had I known there won't be any hint of a question if they are.

[Kriegsspiel]

Since obviuosly many girls wont accept to date if they know the guy is engaged.

A new study provides evidence for what many have long suspected: that single women are much keener on pursuing a man who’s already taken than a singleton.
“The single women really, really liked the guy when he was taken,” says Melissa Burkley of Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, who conducted the “mate-poaching” study with her colleague Jessica Parker.
. . .
Offered a single man, 59 per cent were interested in pursuing a relationship. But when he was attached, 90 per cent said they were up for the chase.
. . .
Burkley and Parker speculate that single women may be more drawn to attached men because they’ve already been “pre-screened” by other women and found to be satisfactory as a mate, whereas single men are more of an unknown quantity.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... -are-best/

[iopsi]

That sort of stuff was so confusing and frustrating for me. The one thing I learned is when you meet someone who's actually into you all bets are off. There's no waiting a few days so as not to scare them off or "I'm also seeing someone else so I want to keep this casual for now" games. They'll just be all over you (and hopefully you over them). I'd recommend going out there just looking to meet some people to spend a little time with, learn a few things, perhaps get a little on the side if both parties are interested, and when someone who's into you actually comes along there won't be any questioning it. In my experience if there's a question or any "signals" that need "analyzing" it means they're not into you and I would have kept much more of my sanity had I known there won't be any hint of a question if they are.

Yes i agree. When you "click" with the girl and the girl with you, there are no more games, both just want each other.
But still, that when needs sometime before materializing (at least most of the times), so some "games" might still be necessary as a start.

They just want to feel that you guys want them is all.
Once they scored, they move onto the next target. This is pretty common, get used to it.

I'm fine with that but i would prefer if they felt not only my attention but also something else



@Kriegsspiel

Hmm maybe i should tell him to include his gf in his profile ahah.
Tho i'm not sure how many girls would really act if a guy who they knew that was engaged tried to get with them.