The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Where are you and where are you going?
7Wannabe5
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yeah, it’s a problem. I cried for an hour one afternoon shortly after my daughter was born while watching an episode of Phil Donahue on the topic of female body image. The thing is you have to own your own aesthetic and your own sexuality and in order to do that you have to accept that men want validation that they like what they like too.

On my old dating profile I included a joke that went something like “My waist to hip ratio is approximately .72 so that means that there is a 97% likelihood that you will find me attractive according to an article in an old copy of Discover magazine I was reading the other day while waiting to get my the oil changed on my 1998 Mazda.” It wasn’t my intention, but the interesting thing that happened was it turned out to be a good opener to relaxed dialogue about sexuality and elements of attraction with quite a few of the men I dated. I also joked that I liked men who possessed the three Is; intelligence, initiative, and bIceps. One good thing about most men is that they usually do like sex, so they are usually pretty willing to accommodate our sexuality, and they’re actually usually pretty flexible regarding our physical imperfections too.

OTOH, they really can be gawdawful when it comes to sharing kitchen and/or garden space and they only get grouchier with age. A nice dinner, hawt sex, maybe a fun weekend trip, come over and help me put up some bookcases; that’s ideal in my old lady want ‘em but no longer need ‘em book.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

I am really enjoying the book and wish I had started with it. I do need very clear explanations and thought processes--they help my often scrambled brain and they are certainly helping at this point.

I do disagree with a small segment--that is the case against "long term strategies," 401ks, etc. I believe this may be due to some things not holding over for someone who wants to retire early and needs income immediately, and may also be due to bias against the finance industry--which I don't blame anyone having worked in this industry the entirety of my career.

My main issue is that regardless of how early you are retiring, you likely plan on living over 20 years in which case long term strategies do make sense. I think that the discussion of "buy and hold" is taken from people who are the bane of my existence--such as Dave Ramsey, who try and make things as easy as possible to his audience while leaving out very important disclosure. It's why you see 60 year olds still having 100% in an S&P 500 index fund. The real strategy is that you develop three different buckets, a cash bucket (sort of like an emergency savings in your investment portfolio)--an intermediary bucket like certain types of bonds, and an equity bucket. As you get older, the cash (short term) and intermediary bucket grow larger, slowly. This is so you are not dependent on the market to meet your needs. Cash is typically 3-5 years worth of expenses, and the bonds depend on your risk profile. It is true bonds do not always behave the way we want them to, especially in the sort of zero-interest and even negative interest rates we've seen recently, but the losses from them are generally far less than would be from equity. So as Jacob talks about decoupling, bonds allow a intermediate play that allows you to have some flexibility with the market and allows you to be more strategic with equity. Strategic in the sense of taxes (sometimes it makes sense to take a loss for tax reasons) or to give you time to sell when you believe the equities you hold are overvalued.

Because this cash/bond portion will be growing larger and larger as you get closer to "retirement"--which I agree does not make as much sense for early retirees, but the idea is that you will not just be automatically investing certain amounts into the market, but you will also be selling slowly over time instead of all at once when you need the funds. I would take this strategy with me into ERE. I would likely even segregate certain accounts--one for post 59.5 and once for my needed earnings. If my needed earning have an allocation of 5-10% cash at all time, as equities increase I would need to continuously sell them--from there comes strategy of when (which bonds allow me the choice) as well as which ones which allows me to think about valuation/tax reasoning/etc. For this reason, my long term account would likely have a higher rate of return as it would be taking on more risk since I do not need the bond/cash bucket, but I would not expect my current strategy that I'm drawing from to make the kind of returns that index-fund gurus say you should always be making.

A lot of tax strategies are not needed if you are living at or below poverty levels, but one thing that I think should always be used is 401ks/IRAs. This is simply because you will not pay any capital gains on these earnings and that is huge. If you only are allowed a pretax 401k, you have two options--in one you can have that be your "long term" strategy bucket for after you turn 59.5. Or you can do a roth conversion over time. Given most on this forum will be at a significantly lower tax bracket, it may make sense to max out pretax 401k and then do roth conversions slowly once they are at a smaller tax bracket.

Roth IRAs are interesting in that the amount that you put in can always be taken out without penalty, but the earnings are subject to penatlies taxes. However, they are not subject to penalties and/or taxes for certain things such as disability/ first time home purchase / or the big one--HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS--or you can even calculate an amount over a certain period of time in periodic payments.

So there really is more flexibility with these accounts than is often perceived. Although with your employer, you may be limited to pretax 401ks and limited investment options (or you may not, every plan is different)--once you leave you can roll it to an IRA to invest however you like and/or you can convert it to roth strategically over time, which gives you even more flexibility.

I also do not agree that most will be able to find better values unless investing is a passion and an interest of yours, like Warren Buffet you are reading all the prospectuses and earnings reports for hours a day. This may be a bias of talking to the "average" investor, but certainly, there is a reason why dead investors tend to make the best investors.

The argument that the system may fail entirely is one I'm more willing to engage in than finding better ways to leverage the system. While I do not personally believe the system will fail in our lifetime (by that I mean great depression levels and never coming back), I do believe it will at one point. This is where I think the idea of a "renaissance (wo)man" makes sense and should be invested in. Ultimately, if the system fails, neither your emergency savings, the cash you hide in a hole in your backyard, the gold bars that you maintain--none of that will matter. It is far better to invest in a grain silo and grain if that is your plan. Or, as many in this forum do, become permies and learn a wide variety of skills. (If I take the grain silo literally, the amount of investment to keep it free of pests while waiting for collapse, and then the amount needed to secure it so you aren't killed once people are starving death and can still make a profit seems like too much of an expense/risk for me, while having the skills needed to survive will not make you as big of a target--but hey, that's risk/reward right :lol: )

I tend to like to plan on both happening. I have witnesses the system fail me many times over, yet it has largely still held intact itself. If it exists, I plan on benefitting from it and using every loophole I can as far as taxes/planning/etc. I agree that financial planning does not really exist for early retirees who are willing to drop out of consumption, but I still think you can creatively use strategies to navigate early retirement. I suppose in the same way Jacob is very interested in researching and studying individual equities--I am extremely interested in IRS code and learning about the various loopholes to get as much as I can out of my assets while giving the government as little as possible. Doing so while living at poverty level income is even more exciting and gives a huge opportunity to reduce taxes in whatever form. If I do end up disabled at one point, something that I honestly do not want happening--but if I were to, I think I may have even more opportunity and I am researching that currently.

--------------------

Onto the Renaissance Wo-man building of my life

As we have gotten rid of our air conditioning, (we did buy one for our room)--I am looking for ways to optimize our current house. I have completely blocked off one southern facing room--my writing/hobby room. I do love this room, but do not need to utilize it currently. I would like to block the kitchen off completely but be able to bring it back into the house during winter. (was reading thread about outdoor kitchens). Kitchen could effectively be completely blocked from rest of the house and just put screens on all windows/doors and have it perpetually opened to the outdoors during warm months. Then "Open" The windows and doors to bring it back "inside" during cool months when we need pipes to not freeze and the warmth from the stove will be welcomed. Before taking on a big project and learning how to effectively close it off with construction, I would like to learn how to sew. In England, they use door curtains to prevent drafts. I want to learn to sew curtains in general and would block this part of our home off with heavy curtains on both sides of the wall.

Also would like to increase insulation in our attic. Have done preliminary research on how to do so--but need to take it step by step.

Want to chart how where the sun interacts with our home throughout the day and learn more about how that influences heating/cooling of our house.

M wanted to buy a draft stopper for the bottom of out bedroom door now that we have portable AC there. I have found they are pretty easy to sew and can be done so by hand. I think I would like to become relatively good at sewing by hand before moving on to buying an electric.

---------------------

Have thought recently about saving enough in cash to take 1-2 years off of work and simply seeing if I can make it as "Working Man" as is said in the book. That is, finding projects and the like for income and living off of that income only. Just a time for me to explore income outside of salary. If I had healthcare taken care of--which I would need about 6-7K a year for I believe, I'd have more flexibility with what I can do with my life. Maxing out HSA and building up a cash reserve while pondering this possibility.

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

a thoroughly enjoyable read

just an editorial note... were i you, i'd simply write renaissance woman. no need for dashes or parentheses or apologies :P

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Alphaville wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:25 am
a thoroughly enjoyable read

just an editorial note... were i you, i'd simply write renaissance woman. no need for dashes or parentheses or apologies :P
Editorially, I see my main problem is that I was not consistent in specifying working (wo)man / wo-man as such. :twisted:

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:48 am
:twisted:
:lol:

also should add, i appreciated this immensely:
ellarose24 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:09 pm
There is certainly something in me that runs very deep that is a sort of rebellious "I'LL SHOW YOU ALL" that sparks up every once and a while--
i don't think it's "pure ego," i think there's an element there of a healthy drive, and i look forward to you showing them all (for the right reasons).

for another day... i'll see if i can find you a great little documentary i once saw ages ago that might help justify this stance better than a long bloviation on my part. it's hard to find! might take some time...

--

eta: okay, i can't find it anywhere, but it's a late 80s or early 90s indie documentary about women with multiple personality disorder, their histories and struggles, victories and defeats, etc.

it's super compelling, but it wasn't a big commercial film or anything, much less being a documentary long before the genre got big, and i saw it in some arthouse place that showed small indies back when you could find those at the movies (pre-tarantino, etc.)

anyway, at the very end, one of the subjects we've seen struggle throughout the film turns to the camera, and says something along the lines of: "my name is bla bla bla, and i made this movie, and this is for you doctor something something, who told me that i'd never be able to accomplish anything in my life".

and i can't remember if everyone got up and applauded at this absent person or what, which is an absurd thing to do at the movies, but damn if it wasn't a pretty fucking glorious ending for a film.
Last edited by Alphaville on Mon May 03, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dream of Freedom
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Have you considered other outlets for your ambition? Maybe writing. You are a prolific writer here.

ertyu
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ertyu »

Hm, very good point. We are used to thinking about ERE as a way to reduce our dependence on the salaried job by getting multiple sources of "yields," but maybe it's just as relevant to think about reducing our dependence on the formal economy for our drives for success, status, ambition, mastery, accomplishment.

white belt
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by white belt »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:09 pm
Modern society seems to give women two options: Successful career woman or traditional homemaker
I think your observations are spot on and track with conversations I’ve had with women in my life.

I will also point out that these gender expectations affect men as well, particularly in the case that men have “successful career” as the only option (being a stay at home Dad might be on the rise, but is by no means widespread and is met with snickering/jabs from other men and women). Paternity leave in the US is extremely short and men who try to take more time off or try to work their career schedule around family life are either not taken seriously or met with hostility by management and coworkers.

I think the “you can have it all” myth is damaging to both men and women. It leads to absurd expectations. The people in high tempo career fields do not have it all, they either have a spouse that stays home to attend to the household and/or pay for maid, nanny, gardener, etc to do the household tasks and parenting for them. They generally don’t see their children very much.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“Radical Homemakers” by Shannon Hayes recommends a return to a partnership model which would allow both men and women more opportunity to be productive within the context of the household domestic economy. I think this is great in theory, but since my first marriage was to a man who grew up in very liberal area and who was also prettier and more feminist than me, I have serious reservations about how it tends to work out in practice. My BFF was also married to a house husband who grew up in Sweden, and that marriage went down the tubes in less than 10 years.

Biscuits and Gravy
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Biscuits and Gravy »

white belt wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:36 am
They generally don’t see their children very much.
Said like it’s a bad thing. :twisted:

I fit this role of “you can have it all” (worker + mom + homemaker + stock player + etc). It’s exhausting, sure, but it’s all about finding a balance that suits you and your individual needs/wants. Anyway, I disagree that modern [American] women only have two options. There’s a spectrum upon which we can exist and we are fortunate to have the freedom to explore that spectrum and largely design our lives as we like.

white belt
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by white belt »

Biscuits and Gravy wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:18 pm
I fit this role of “you can have it all” (worker + mom + homemaker + stock player + etc). It’s exhausting, sure, but it’s all about finding a balance that suits you and your individual needs/wants. Anyway, I disagree that modern [American] women only have two options. There’s a spectrum upon which we can exist and we are fortunate to have the freedom to explore that spectrum and largely design our lives as we like.
I’m sorry, but if you are at the top of your career field (which generally requires working 60+ hours a week), you are making a sacrifice in some form. Of course some career fields are more accommodating than others, but I find it hard to believe that the academic researcher working 12+ hours in a lab, the Soldier who spends months at a time away from his family, the surgeon who works 60+ hours a week, the C Suite exec or consultant who is on the road every week, and so on are spending much time with their children.

It is indeed a spectrum, but saying you “can have it all” implies there are no trade offs. That is absolutely not the case. If you have children and want to spend time with them, it will likely mean taking a step back from work output/responsibilities. This is why nearly all of the highest performing people with families have a spouse that stays at home. Or the Dual Income families rely on daycare, nannies, etc and also the stereotype about the troubled rich kid who has everything but just wants to spend time with his parents.

Biscuits and Gravy
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Biscuits and Gravy »

Oof, definitely not at the top of my career field*, nor would I want to be. Life is all about trade-offs, which is what I meant by “balancing” and what is comfortable and acceptable for one person won’t fit the bill for another, and that’s fine. There’s no right way to do life and we’re lucky we have so many ways to do it. Wrt kids, I’ve experienced both arrangements you mentioned: two incomes that put the kids in daycare and one income (me) with my ex as the stay-at-home dad. Both arrangements had positives and negatives, like everything in life. Anyway, I’m not saying “you can have it all” (admitting here we haven’t even defined “all”) is a good or bad thing or a lifestyle for which to aim. Might work for some and not others. Works for me just fine. I quite like my life.

*Editing this to lol. Top of my career field would be a fuggin’ Supreme Court Justice. “Justice Gravy takes the bench...” hur hur hur ridiculous idea. My confirmation hearing would be full of “so, you drop the eff bomb a lot...” and “wait, you don’t believe in God?!”
Last edited by Biscuits and Gravy on Mon May 03, 2021 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Alphaville wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:55 am

eta: okay, i can't find it anywhere, but it's a late 80s or early 90s indie documentary about women with multiple personality disorder, their histories and struggles, victories and defeats, etc.

anyway, at the very end, one of the subjects we've seen struggle throughout the film turns to the camera, and says something along the lines of: "my name is bla bla bla, and i made this movie, and this is for you doctor something something, who told me that i'd never be able to accomplish anything in my life".
Oh no don't get me started on the sexism inherent in "personality disorders"--for instance, BPD (borderline) is supposedly 75% women, until you go to a prison population where it is 50/50. (not saying borderline doesn't exist, I do think it does, but it has largely replaced "histrionic" or even "hysteria" which, let's not forget, was solved by male doctors masturbating women).... (okay I'm sorry for my parentheses usage now I feel self-conscious. It's away to document my side-rambles)
Dream of Freedom wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am
Have you considered other outlets for your ambition? Maybe writing. You are a prolific writer here.
This is the nicest thing you could have said. I would enjoy being a writer, but the ability to discipline yourself to a certain audience, NOT engage in stream of conscious vomit, etc etc. Yes it's something I have thought long and hard about, and would probably look into freelance in the future as Working (Wo)man.
ertyu wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:52 am
Hm, very good point. We are used to thinking about ERE as a way to reduce our dependence on the salaried job by getting multiple sources of "yields," but maybe it's just as relevant to think about reducing our dependence on the formal economy for our drives for success, status, ambition, mastery, accomplishment.
I do not think I have come up with that idea, it simply seems to be the one that is presented by those in this forum that I feel close to in terms of perspective and I am likely rehashing it in different words. It also helps the prepper side of me, which has been growing. If you're touching on my grain silo as an illustration, that's what I tell clients when they tell me they are keeping their cash "safe" under their mattress. The kind of collapse they are talking about their cash would be used for tinder.

To everyone else--my feminist views are pretty extreme and radical, and so out of respect for this forum I will not engage in responding to other's thoughts and ideas of my own thoughts--I know from lots of internet-experience that it will turn ugly. I am feminist of the Andrea Dworkin variety, not choice feminism that believes female socialization and objectification is somehow empowering. (for instance, I think wearing heels, makeup, and even bras is largely based on an oppressive structure of socialization--given all of those things are actually negative to varying but very observable degrees for physical health but women do them anyways).

I may expand on these thoughts more one day but I will simply throw them out as my own thoughts and leave them as that for now.

Editing to say: The reason I bring up feminism in this forum is because as hard as I try to separate it from ERE, my beliefs regarding it and my beliefs regarding ERE collide (in a good way) quite frequently. I cannot justly talk about consumerism/career without touching on these subjects, but I will try harder to address them specifically to ERE as my intention is not to make anyone defensive. I have already gone though my "atheist" phase with feminism--and am not trying to proselytize anyone here. But it does significantly shape my world view. Only 3 years ago I wrote in this journal "I'm not a feminist but..." as if to apologize for my views and not be seen as "That kind of woman," I won't do that anymore. However, I also believe that too many people focus too intently on all of the ways they are victimized--I certainly don't intend to do that, though I do think it may be part of the many grieving processes we have to undergo as we sort out what is what in life. I try to step away from that kind of thinking as I have already ran the gamut of all stages of grief and am (trying) to focus on acceptance both as woman and mentally ill--while still engaging and observing in the way those identities work their way realistically into my life.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Gotcha. I’m obviously more of a Codpiece Revival Feminist myself, but I grok where you are coming from since I hail from the land of deep Dworkin feminism which gives me the freedom to hardly ever wear heels, make-up or anything but stretchy pajama bra (which is actually more comfortable than no bra because it keeps the girls from hitting stuff.) The good thing about Gen 3 feminism is that you can also dress it up a bit on occasion and recreate the cover of “Blondes Have More Fun” , but you are the one who gets a blonde partner AND a brunette partner if you like ;)

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:12 pm
Gotcha. I’m obviously more of a Codpiece Revival Feminist myself, but I grok where you are coming from since I hail from the land of deep Dworkin feminism which gives me the freedom to hardly ever wear heels, make-up or anything but stretchy pajama bra (which is actually more comfortable than no bra because it keeps the girls from hitting stuff.) The good thing about Gen 3 feminism is that you can also dress it up a bit on occasion and recreate the cover of “Blondes Have More Fun” , but you are the one who gets a blonde partner AND a brunette partner if you like ;)
LOL. I often think the dworkin variety find ourselves there due to unfortunate experiences around men (trauma)--which I fully admit and understand. You are badass and one of the rare women that does step outside of paradigm and publishes it for others to read--which gives me hope for finding my own trail. I only selfishly wish you would start a permie youtube channel or the like for more exposure.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yikes! Maybe if I dress myself up in a tomato costume? I was on a local cable show for kids, but I was always hiding in a costume or behind a puppet stage. I am going to visit my old permaculture project soon, so I will post some pictures.

I hear you on the trauma contributing to Dworkin mode. I sometimes sigh and have to admit that the world is not yet safe for post-feminism. I also worry about likely decline back to pre-feminism in low energy future. I wonder what the minimum necessary aspects of modernity to maintain feminism would be?

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:29 pm
Yikes! Maybe if I dress myself up in a tomato costume? I was on a local cable show for kids, but I was always hiding in a costume or behind a puppet stage. I am going to visit my old permaculture project soon, so I will post some pictures.

I hear you on the trauma contributing to Dworkin mode. I sometimes sigh and have to admit that the world is not yet safe for post-feminism. I also worry about likely decline back to pre-feminism in low energy future. I wonder what the minimum necessary aspects of modernity to maintain feminism would be?
Yes! I have had very similar thoughts about the future and find it an interesting topic.

Totally outside of ERE... uh oh... here we go. It may be thanks to this service-based consumer economy that women do have degrees of freedom/power (when work is not based only on strength). Something to keep in mind is that the Renaissance Man of the past was almost always either wealthy or a mooch (thinking of Thoreau). Same with women who had degrees of freedom--Beatrix Potter being one of my favorites. Perhaps pre-Renaissance we have someone like Diogenesis, but he is rare--even stoicism comes partially from very wealthy men who spoilt their sons and likely contributed to the fall of Rome (Marcus Aurelius).

So historically, to even be able to engage with the ideas of renaissance man would be determined by class, and sometimes that would include women despite overall oppression(please spare me the feudal slaves only working 4 hours a day argument). Now men of any class can live off of the waste of others and share in education via the world wide web, and women can engage as they are needed to increase consumption in current society--we only have some remnants and skeletons of past socialization that naturally will take generations and generations to wash away if we can only maintain current technology. In post- energy world I assume there will still be classes, those without power will be subjected to forced labor and women will move back to the main producer of future laborers. Technology makes strength (mostly) moot but strength would come back as an oppressive force I would imagine, and women would lose out.

Actually one of the main reasons I split with many radical feminists--they accept that there is a biological aspect at play in women's oppression but refuse to move anywhere past creating some fantasy womyn's land. Trans humanism actually seems a viable solution if it ever became feasible (outsourced wombs :lol: ?) but the prudish nature of many radical feminists makes the thought disgusting (I think it's rather ridiculous but worth engaging with despite initial disgust).

Perhaps socialization will be our saving grace in the future, as we are reminded why our socialization came into play in the first place. It behooves us to be wily and indirect and subversive when placed against brute strength paired with potential anarchy.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:39 pm
Oh no don't get me started on the sexism inherent in "personality disorders"--for instance, BPD (borderline) is supposedly 75% women, until you go to a prison population where it is 50/50. (not saying borderline doesn't exist, I do think it does, but it has largely replaced "histrionic" or even "hysteria" which, let's not forget, was solved by male doctors masturbating women).... (okay I'm sorry for my parentheses usage now I feel self-conscious. It's away to document my side-rambles)
bpd is absolutely fucking real. it gets an undeserved bad rap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G08IYl2DAMg

but please go ahead and get started on how men like to "look tough" by masking their problems and mocking others. please give it both barrels. we even had a shitty incident of that sort i witnessed in this forum. kindly let it rip--i'll read your rant.

anyway, parentheses are fine to mark digressions, comments, etc. i just thought you were hesitant to claim the renaissance for women, is all :mrgreen:

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yes, there is a lack of credible precedent for human female freedom within a low energy setting. OTOH, bonobos obviously engage in a very low energy lifestyle inclusive of more gender equality. They are also very social, peaceable and promiscuous. Chimpanzees are more violent and more likely to award sexual access to masculine dominance. Therefore, since humans are more flexible and better at planning than either of these closely related species, it seems to me that our best bet is to try to socialize more in the direction of the bonobo. That’s one of the reasons why I decided to engage in the practice of polyamory. Another reason being that this was also the practice of one of my favorite Renaissance women, Ada Lovelace. Although my personal experience wasn’t entirely successful, in part because I was not “affluent “ enough to maintain it, I was pleasantly surprised by how peaceable my partners were in relationship to this practice. There was a bit of competitive display on rare occasions two of them were both in my company, but generally they were quite content to extend me this freedom in exchange for same. Since I have many male relatives and friends whom I love, I think it is important to avoid cruelty in practices towards reduction of violence and towards freedom of females, so I think the expansion of sexual access practiced by the bonobo species, in which elder females actually integrate new rogue males into the tribe through sexual introductions may be a valid model. I am aware that many more Dworkin feminists would tend to disagree :lol:

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 6:19 am
Since I have many male relatives and friends whom I love, I think it is important to avoid cruelty in practices towards reduction of violence and towards freedom of females, so I think the expansion of sexual access practiced by the bonobo species, in which elder females actually integrate new rogue males into the tribe through sexual introductions may be a valid model. I am aware that many more Dworkin feminists would tend to disagree :lol:
have you read about the baboons in which all the alpha males died and the culture of the troop largely reformed itself to be quite peaceful? All observable within one generation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/
Alphaville wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:37 pm
bpd is absolutely fucking real. it gets an undeserved bad rap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G08IYl2DAMg

but please go ahead and get started on how men like to "look tough" by masking their problems and mocking others. please give it both barrels. we even had a shitty incident of that sort i witnessed in this forum. kindly let it rip--i'll read your rant.

anyway, parentheses are fine to mark digressions, comments, etc. i just thought you were hesitant to claim the renaissance for women, is all :mrgreen:
Yeah, I think they should reframe BPD altogether--in the public mind it is "attention seeking female." This is one part that does make me feel bad for men who have also been socialized to never ask for help. The suffering from things such as BPD is immense.

and LOL. I shall not do such a thing. It is actually rather bad for my mental health, I spent most of covid doing such a thing. I am hesitant to say... it was absolutely disastrous to my mental health... however it also was a huge period of growth. I grew up with one of the most misogynistic families you can think of, and had internalized a lot of it myself--as I believe all women do, and seeing women on my side and men as the "enemy" instead of seeing women as some strange competitor for a species that has largely abused and disrespected me was both very painful and very needed. My mother, for instance, always said she hated other women and only felt intellectually stimulated by men. I felt the same way for a long time, until I realized that when I am around other women, I too act very fake and treat women differently than I treat men. It's a feedback loop. And it's still something I struggle with, I have to remind myself every day that my instinct is to see women as competition and less than out of insecurity--it's very painful to realize and address, and to not judge women who are likely projecting those same instincts towards me. I think I will drop feminism now from this journal lol--it's a topic that is both intellectually very fun for me to engage with, but also very painful and if that pain is poked I tend to engage unhealthily.

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Onto Real Life

Living without an AC has become anxiety inducing.

I first bought a single hose portable AC unit. The box said "Not Sold in California." I then find out certain refrigerants come with a cancer and reproductive health warning. I also find out single hose AC units are one of the most inefficient things you can buy. They essentially make your room a negative pressure environment, so then your room becomes a vacuum for all of the inefficient windows and doors in your house to suck in hot outside air.

I am reading studies that all say different things. That outside air is better than inside air. That inside AC air is better than outside air. The answer is likely determined by where you live. I live in a little enclave of suburbia surrounded by three major highways. However, inside we have laminant floors and all variety of plastic fumes.

Furthermore, the humidity here is so bad that I am wondering if not having AC is going to give us mold. Our food is going bad within days (fruit or potatoes that aren't refrigerated). I am trying to find what people *did* before AC here in regards to mold and humidity, but am having a hard time. I have been able to keep the air in our house on average 8 degrees cooler than outside by forming drafts between windows aided by box fans. But it's the humidity that is getting to me. I also sometimes feel paranoid that I am sleeping with the windows open. I am thinking of growing rose bushes in front of windows to aid in shade as well as be a protective measure.

There is also the problem that because our lot is so small, putting trees to shade the house and make meaningful difference in temperature would make the lawn be all trees. I am struggling to be happy with what I have. But I very much do want more land.

We haven't got anywhere close to the highs in our area, and it's already become sweltering--again--simply because of the humidity. I feel like I am living in a swamp. I think that I will likely engage in living without AC for one year which will be helpful as I learn all of the ways to make our house more efficient, but I do not think it will be forever. If I lived somewhere arid and dry, I would be much more willing. But there really is a very serious concern with mold as we are currently at 70% humidity. I have looked at buying a dehumidifier, but doing so would require we close the windows, which would then prevent draft--and as temperature moves into triple digits that is not something I'm willing to do.

I spent $50 on food over the weekend for takeout. I received the Moderna shot on Friday and Saturday I had 102 fever and a mid-range flu feeling--shivers, aches, all of the good stuff. I did try and engage with thoughts of consumption, distraction, etc as my body was writhing in pain. For instance, I tried to meditate and play around with the feelings of pain, see if focusing on breath helped, or if exploring the pain "non judgmentally" helped. None of it helped. I put on trash reality TV and ordered spicy indian food, as well as took three hot baths :shock: --that did help. It was definitely an extreme exercise and example of consumption used as self medication, it helped me realize that focusing on physical and mental health is likely the first defense (for me) against consumption. Although it is nice to have grandiose thoughts of monk-like acceptance of pain, I think that is far further down the road for me at this juncture.

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