wolf's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
7Wannabe5
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: wolf's journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:26 am

jacob wrote:Put it in other words, one can't become a permaculture gardener by throwing money at the problem.
True, but I am still contemplating throwing down some $$ for my very own copy of "Edible Forest Gardens" and variety of interesting nursery stock. And, there is still an outstanding violation of code with $100 ticket, to be followed by $250 ticket and/or time in prison causing me to fret :cry: Also, one of the Principles is "Obtain a Yield" which roughly equals "Create Value", and it's not like money isn't there in the mix along with every other flow or stock.

I've also been considering which essential input capital is most like in general economic system. For instance, is it like nitrogen in the sense that if a domain is over-capitalized, it is likely to run-off and result in unwanted algae bloom somewhere down stream?
wolf wrote:I, myself, have only little influence on systems. They do have greater influence on me. I‘m a small part of it. I‘d like to concentrate on elements which I can influence.
Yeah, watch out for black-holes and spreading yourself too thin or attempting to put too many balls up in the air at the same time, etc. etc. etc. On more positive note, even when everything comes crashing down, you can always go center yourself back at Principle One = Observation. Or Sub-Principle One-A = Oops :lol: !

2Birds1Stone
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:41 am

Always love your posts @wolf. I missed some of the conversation here during my forum break, but have gone through a very similar change in mindset over the past 6-12 months. Semi-ERE/ERE is much more appealing than traditional FIRE, yet I still can't seem to sever the chord on my job, despite having "enough" to test drive it for a year or three without major impact to overall financial life trajectory. Hoping my employer takes the decision out of my hands*, and severs the chord themselves. (*hint hint, if you're reading, big brother)

jacob
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by jacob » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:49 pm

@7wb5 - A certain minimum amount is required to pay friction costs. Liebig also holds for the money component. For example, it's much harder to be 100% self-sufficient---growing tomatoes and selling them to pay RE taxes---than 80%. Another feature of ERE is that conversion-losses between different values created are minimized.

7Wannabe5
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:35 pm

@jacob:

Right. Like it would make more sense to set up an English Language Tax Help Table with a cash donation jar in order to pay your property taxes rather than selling your tomatoes to pay your taxes, except for the fact that then you will probably get another stupid violation ticket.

classical_Liberal
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:43 pm

@jacob
Conversion-losses is a great term. They are essentially what I meant with money providing the optionality. Because money can buy more than just stuff, it can buy opportunities by it's mere presence. Living in Fargo, ND options for learning how to sail are limited (ie the soil is lacking nutrients to grow sailers). Which is fine, learning to sail isn't on my mind today. If it becomes a huge priority in 5 years, I'm still gonna have a hard time doing it where I grew my ERE garden. So now I need to modify the situation if I want to learn to sail. Having money to "fill in the gaps" while the garden is being transplanted for new goals provides opportunity.

For the more fickle minded people like me, how de we design a system for future outputs which are known unknowns? Outside of learning to adapt the system to minimize these conversional losses.

Jin+Guice
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by Jin+Guice » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 pm

@wolf, excellent post, thanks for the inspiration. You're beating me at my own game.

wolf
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by wolf » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:58 pm

@classical_Liberal
Thank you. I, too, think that adapting to systems is an important skill. Money, I guess, is some sort of energy, as you said by „stored life energy“. Altough money can buy you optionality to a certain degree, it cannout buy you wisdom, experience, mental and personal growth. I‘d prefer to have both. The first one (money) is easy to quantify and manage, therefore it‘s more convenient for me to control it in spreadsheets and bank accounts. But it doesn‘t provide me with the kind of wisdom I‘d like to learn and I‘d like to experience, e.g. living semi-ERE, part-time.

@jacob
Thank you for your feedback, I‘d appreciate it. From a money point of view I guess I‘m further ahead then deep ERE thinking, regards to Wheaton levels. I‘m hoping that I‘ll learn a great deal of more wisdom from „In over our heads“, because that‘s my real challange in life. To grow, to experience, to gain wisdom, to learn and to look beyond current knowledge. Like fish once said „Money is a saved problem“, I‘m kind of accepting that step by step. To be honest I can only say that now. In the past, when I had not clue about ERE and when I had a JAFI over 3 and almost no NW saved, money was indeed a problem. So, I‘m deeply grateful, that I‘m healthy (Prio #1) and that I‘v got some money saved to have that freedom to think about such topics.

@7Wannabe5
Thanks yor the comment! I‘m gonna watch out for „black-holes“ ;-) I‘m risk-averse, so my problem is that I have to many balls up in the air, but maybe the opposite. I feel very comfortable in my comfort zone, but like to go more into my stretching zone, especially when it comes to socializing. That‘s a continious challange I‘m trying to get better. I‘v experienced in the past that I can learn many new things when I accept new roles (partially and time-bound), e.g. project management. That, go to the end of my comfort zone and try to enhance it, I‘ll try to do more often in all areas of my life. And if I did a step to far, I‘ll center myself and become the observer. Observing is so easy, that it‘s a challenge for me (INTJ) to not do it. Anyway, always appreciate your optimism, wisdom and funny way to describe things!

@2Birds1Stone
Thank you very much. Yeah, there was some really good conversation going on, especially in black_son_of_gray‘s journal. And your journal is also very inspiring to me. I‘m looking forward to every post in your journal, because it is happening so much in your life. And it is great that you share that with us. Moneywise you are ahead of me. So I can learn many things, how you handle the transition from fulltime work to … who knows. :-)

@Jin+Guice
Thank you. I doubt that, that I can beat you at your own game. :-) You are playing the semi-ERE-game too well in real life. When I‘ll decide to change my fulltime work to a semi-ERE-lifestyle, I‘ll let you know. Till then, please don‘t stop posting about it! One must become semi-ERE and that takes time, courage and practical application in real life. Any story about that, either success stories or lessons learned, is very much appreciated.

fingeek
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Re: wolf's journal

Post by fingeek » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:39 am

Great to see this update wolf! I love that you're focusing less on the money/tracking side of things in your journal (It appears it's a solved problem to you now), and now you're onto the hard stuff - What to do with your life. Ha ha!

I too am having a realisation that money isn't all that important (a bold statement, I know) and in many ways it's the easiest part of FIRE/ERE to solve for. I think I'll take a leaf from your book and track money less, so that my attention can be directed into more important things - Meaning, purpose, hobbies, part-time job (eventually) etc.

Keep up the good updates please, we're all learning a lot from your observations!

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