Ideas needed: How to repopulate village in Northern Norway

[poleo]

Hello people,

I'm starting up a small farming enterprise in Northern Norway, in what amounts to a rather charming small community. People here are friendly and open, and we have been welcomed very warmly. We too are Norwegians, though from a completely different part - not that it matters, people here are very friendly towards foreigners too (surprisingly to some extent, considering how rural it is).

I'm also working a little with a community initiative for the development of our village. The thing is that around here, there are a lot of empty houses. Before we left for the north, we met a man that is from here, but is entrenched in his career in the city, and he characterized his home area as Norway's Klondyke. We've come to discover that this is true in many senses, especially if one is seeking a simple life in an area with spectacular nature, and where your money goes quite a long way, at least by Norwegian standards.

The question I wish to ask, is how should I go about in "advertising" our local community to people that may want to establish themselves here? How can I reach people with the right mindset and ambitions for their lives?

Up until now I've tried using Facebook, and it does work for getting people engaged, though every single one I've talked to as a result of my campaigning have turned out to be talkers rather than doers. I think the kind of lifestyle in question here probably requires the opposite.

Anyway, it struck me as a great idea to talk to this forum, as the minds around here are definitely aligned in the right way for this kind of thinking. Thank you for your time in reading this.

[Seppia]

Where in northern Norway?
I've visited it quite a bit, and found Tromsø and Lofoten to be among the most spectacular places on earth (especially Lofoten).

I'd love one day (not today, but definitely when I'll get to ERE) to spend some time in Norway, but for a year round place I think I would rather pick a place further south like Bergen, Stavanger or Alesund to avoid the eternal night of winter.

If we are talking temporary then it's a whole different story: on top of my "things to do when ERE" list there's a summer somewhere VERY North.
I will probably offer my service as an Italian cook for free in exchange for free food and shelter in Lofoten (I'm thinking Henninsgvær as an absolute first best) or Svalbard.
Probably both.

One issue is that Norway is not very easy in terms of visas

[chenda]

Consider microinfluencers - bloggers, social media accounts with an appropriate niche e.g travel, downsizers, holiday homes etc...

[poleo]

I hear this often - Northern Norway has long and dark winters, is incredibly cold and so forth. It's not really that bad at all, and it's not like the nature that is spectacular in summer suddenly turns ugly in winter. There are plenty of places around in Norway with longer dark periods than here, and Northern Norway itself is more than twice the size of Denmark the country. In the west, where Stavanger, Ålesund and Bergen are, it rains all the time. To me that's just awful (I have lived in the area), and choosing between insane rain and some predictable darkness in winter was easy for me.

We live in the Lofoten area, though not in the "real Lofoten", which I think is a very good thing. Lofoten is getting trampled by tourists in a big way. Interestingly, the year summed up is lighter here than where I came from, and the winters are also much milder. I come from the most attractive area in all of Norway, just outside Oslo, but it sucks there because the nature isn't spectacular, the people are working all the time to afford a shiny shoebox they can sleep in and the air isn't clean.

Also - we aren't really "very north" here. Svalbard however, would qualify. That's like a different planet though.

Visas to get here are easy peasy as long as you are from the EU, and nigh impossible if not sadly. As in, you can come here as a tourist fairly easily for many countries, but not anything more.

[Jason]

https://www.netflix.com/title/70221438

[jacob]

The question I wish to ask, is how should I go about in "advertising" our local community to people that may want to establish themselves here? How can I reach people with the right mindset and ambitions for their lives?

You probably can not advertise (shallow) this message in your local community.

What you need is to educate your local community. I would suggest looking into "transition towns" (google it!). (That's the most important takeaway in this post. Do what they do.)

I/we've tried advertising an "ERE-city" structure on this forum for a few years w/o achieving sufficient density. MMM has managed to achieve enough numbers to establish a co-working space in Colorado. The thing is that it's pretty hard to relocate people because most want to stay close to their family and what/who the they know as a matter of practice as opposed to moving somewhere else to join a bunch of people they only heard about over the interwebs. Forming a cult is not easy.

I'd recommend either piggy-backing on another/bigger project that's compatible in values. Think about whatever is similar to ERE in your area; then advertise to those groups. Rather than aiming for 100% agreement, go for 70%. ERE piggybacks well on permaculturists and freestaters, for example.

You need to provide incentives and instructions:
How does one get there? Travel instructions? Destination airport? Required visa? Permanent-residence permits? Where to stay? Friendly landlords? RE agents? Phone numbers/emails? Employers? For self-employed: where to get permits? Friendly local bank accounts? Tax-conditions? Local utility companies?

[Nomad]

Work out how it becomes an economic proposition to live there.

a) Possibly, you get tradespeople to help build and maintain holiday homes for tourists in the Summer ( and brave souls in the Winter ).

b) Are there outwards bounds type activities possible. Get climbers, canoeists etc. involved.

Also, work out how visitors or the residents get there - what is the cost?
How would visitors or residents get there or elsewhere and how is food/goods delivered.

c) Sell a large plot to a cult? (maybe not)

d) Get one nice place furnished and put it on AirBNB as a test of the business model.

e) Look at the Stava heatmap https://www.strava.com/heatmap#7.93/15. ... 45/hot/all cyclists, walkers, runners, skiers etc.

f) can you see the Northern lights? Take professional pictures of the area and the accommodation.

[Jean]

How hard is it to buy land here? What could I get for 1 million NOK?

[Jason]

Does the male/female demographic skew in one direction? People always looking for that.

[IlliniDave]

I don't know much about Norway. Are they immigrant-friendly enough that non-Norwegian's could possibly be encouraged to settle there? In some ways it sounds idyllic to me, though I'd likely pick analogous areas in Alaska or N. Canada if I had the urge to go all-in on the North (which I currently don't). If the area offers better prospects than the lower half of the third world it seems like there should be plenty of willing people out there.

[poleo]

Jacob, thank you for your input - this will come in very handy. I was already aware of Transition Network, through a relative whom works with it in the UK, though for some reason I hadn't made the connection. It's a solid way forward. The other points I will definitely make use of in the systematic work we're trying to do as a community.

Nomad, I think you're onto something, but at the same time we wish to be cautious regarding the tourism industry. What it has done to Lofoten is at times downright ugly, and the social fabric of a community doesn't tend to age well under such circumstances. It seems like it takes some convincing to get the locals to understand that tourism comes at a dear cost, but done right it can be a boon. I think it needs to be developed very slowly and with a lot of debate.

We have recently made some investments in local real estate, which we intend to post on Airbnb and the like. Others have had good success with this sort of venture, and we can piggy back on Lofoten's reputation. I see the contradiction between this paragraph and the preceding.

Jean, it depends on what you mean by "hard". If you come to the area, and you don't really have to limit yourself to our little community for that matter, land is generally easy to come by. Many think it's hard though, perhaps because they lack the social skills needed to get in touch with the locals, or because they have a rather unrealistic idea of what sort of views they wish to have from their future windows. For a million kroner you can get a lot of land without buildings on it (100-500 acres), or a fair amount of land with buildings on it (20-100 acres). The numbers are of course guesstimation.

Jason, I think the genders balance out fairly well. There are so few people in total, that one or two people can make a difference in the statistic though...

IlliniDave, the population round about where I live is incredibly immigrant friendly, considering that we are a rural community in the middle of nowhere. You do get some of the habitual "muslims are scary" people, though most everyone are open and accepting, even to people that aren't white, tall and middle class. I am surprised to be honest, and coming from Oslo which does have a fair share of both foreigners and racism, we are in some sort of tolerance land here. The problem is that you need to be from the European Union in order to settle here easily - for non-EU citizens immigrating to Norway tends to happen through marriage, and even then it's pretty damn tough. This is a thing I disagree with strongly, but sadly what I think doesn't really matter.

[IlliniDave]

IlliniDave, the population round about where I live is incredibly immigrant friendly, considering that we are a rural community in the middle of nowhere. You do get some of the habitual "muslims are scary" people, though most everyone are open and accepting, even to people that aren't white, tall and middle class. I am surprised to be honest, and coming from Oslo which does have a fair share of both foreigners and racism, we are in some sort of tolerance land here. The problem is that you need to be from the European Union in order to settle here easily - for non-EU citizens immigrating to Norway tends to happen through marriage, and even then it's pretty damn tough. This is a thing I disagree with strongly, but sadly what I think doesn't really matter.

What I meant by immigrant-friendly was essentially the latter thing you discuss--how easy/hard is it for people to get accepted by the government as immigrants. Sounds like it would be an uphill struggle for anyone who isn't already free to move there.

[Seppia]

@Dave
All Europeans are free to move there, that's a fairly large pool of talent to work with.
It's larger than the number of people who can move freely across the USA for example.

[IlliniDave]

Seppia, that is what I thought--anyone in the EU, but they could already be there if they wanted. I just thought it might be easier to entice people to an unconventional place like that if they didn't already have residence in the EU.

[Kriegsspiel]

Start banging out some babies. That'll help. Norway's fertility rate is lower than replacement. PIV no-condom is key.

[Jason]

A marketing campaign could help there: "Don't masturbate, repopulate!!!"

Bumper stickers and the like.

[Seppia]

I hear this often - Northern Norway has long and dark winters, is incredibly cold and so forth. It's not really that bad at all, and it's not like the nature that is spectacular in summer suddenly turns ugly in winter.

I'm sorry but it seems like in January 1st Tromso one gets around 5 hours of non-darkness:
http://weather.cs.uit.no/video/
Maybe I'm too Italian but this qualifies as "very dark" for me
I agree with you that it's certainly doable, but it's not exactly Caribbean-attractive either.

We live in the Lofoten area, though not in the "real Lofoten", which I think is a very good thing. Lofoten is getting trampled by tourists in a big way. Also - we aren't really "very north" here. Svalbard however, would qualify. That's like a different planet though.

This is sad to hear. I visited Lofoten in 2007 and I found them to be close to my perfect level of "touristy": there were enough rorbuers /services available to make it easy, but it was rare to see groups of more than 4 people while hiking.
I imagine the situation may have gotten worse because Lofoten are so beautiful they may attract too many people compared to capacity (which seemed low)


On another note, a few things that could possibly incentivize people to move:


1- Explain the main positives you have in your area: nature, cheap living, great education/healthcare, good work opportunities, etc.
Some of the more remote communities here in Italy have state/local budgets set up for "advertisement", there may be an equivalent in Norway which I know has a phenomenal public sector.

2- Explain how to deal with the(true or false) negatives.
Some of the negative stereotypes may be false (I know for example that "too cold" is false in the Lofoten area because of currents), but they may scare people away anyway. Debunk them.
Some other stereotypes may be true: in this case explain how to deal with them.
I.e. "yes in winter time light hours aren't many but:
a) it's not so bad (I personally thought it was worse before I looked at some random dates on the above linked video)
b) here's how we deal with it

3- Give people the option to "test" the area out.
Maybe through some temp jobs during summer season coupled with cheap housing, or try some "first time here" discounts on B&Bs.
Some may be scared to take the plunge, but may be willing to try it out if they see a potential way to back out in case it doesn't work out for them.

I wrote the three above thinking about what would stop/discourage ME from moving there.
I loved northern Norway when I visited it and as I mentioned in my prior post I would love to spend some time there once I'm ERE'd*, especially if you are in an area where nature is beautiful and housing is not obscenely expensive.
I'll be follwing this thread closely.
Please let us know if there's already some info online that you may want to share

*estimated somewhere around 2022-25 depending on many factors. Knowing I could get a job (part time or full time doesn't matter) would be a major plus.

[Jason]

I was trying to think of an article I read about tourism in some remote area, specifically the juxtaposition of natural wonder and architectural achievement. Turned out to be Norway. I remember showing my wife and she said "no way." I know Iceland turned to tourism but I believe its collapsing under its own weight.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/16/trav ... orway.html

[Kriegsspiel]

I know Iceland turned to tourism but I believe its collapsing under its own weight.

If you include the weight of the American tourists, yea I could see it going underwater.

[TheWanderingScholar]

Could have sworn I posted yesterday asking about whether it was a couple hundred or a couple thousand, but oh well. (However I guess from a previous reply, that is about a couple hundred.)

As many have said (especially Seppia) advertising is also effective means of doing so.

As someone who is young and enjoys socializing, what kind of opportunities are there for a social life, and etc.

Advertise maybe to Norwegians, other Scandinavians, and potential Baltics. All of the below are used to the long nights.

Also any local educational insititutes to work with and possibly attract people to work in the area? Usually to advertise something as more attractive for growth, that is a local unique resources to use any ways.


-American Living in Estonia