"In a wide, wide world, full of unimaginable numbers of people, I was- in addition to being small and insufficient- special. I was not only a quirky bundle of genes, but I was also unique existentially, because of the tiny detail that I knew about Creation, because of what I had seen and then understood. Until I phoned someone, the concrete knowledge that opal was the mineral that fortified each seed on each hackberry tree was mine alone. Whether or not this was something worth knowing seemed another problem for another day. I stood and absorbed this revelation as my life turned a page, and my first scientific discovery shone, as even the cheapest plastic toy does when it is new." -"Lab Girl" by Hope Jahren
I remember that feeling. It was awesome. Better than sex. However, hedonic adaption set in rather quickly. Ultimately it died when I began to ponder the meta-problem of "whether or not this was something worth knowing" which in my case was ultimately answered by "not really". I have some results lying around that I never bothered to publish. For all I know, I'm still the only one who knows those [data bits] but it doesn't really do anything for me. Let someone else have the joy of rediscovering them once again.
Maybe this problem is solved by not overthinking whether something is worthwhile or not. Once you start doing that, you start playing a different kind of game. People sometimes ask me if ERE makes me happy. I bet they imagine ERE being about traveling all the time or generally replicating the Disneyland experience on a daily basis. Not really; because I've made it to the meta-game of whether someone is worth-while. What Sclass said. At this point, it's hard to create "happy" through things or experiences. Instead the resulting feeling is more one of being content.
It's worthwhile(ha!) to distinguish, because I think the happiness through experiences is mostly one of jolts of dopamine or whatever. Thus the addictive qualifies of the pursuit of happiness through the purchase of discrete amounts of experiences or things.
The contentedness is constant though.
Edit/Add: I underlined a part of the quote. It's interesting because this kind of understanding of nature is the Stoic equivalent of what meeting God is for monotheists. Stoics considered humans to be the only ones capable of grokking nature. That's why humans were considered special. Of course, grokking nature required much effort so it was not for everybody.
I feel like an extreme environmentalist who can no longer enjoy a hot shower. It’s my fault, I did it to my own brain...
Is that bad or good? I’m unhappy because I cannot easily purchase a thrill that can be enjoyed guilt free...how bad is that? I’m under a warm blanket, in a quiet home wondering if I should make a latte or espresso this morning.
Good to see you put your own observation of deminishing pleasure in wider perspective.
What if you sold all your S class Mercedes(es?), and went for a simpler car which gives complete other fun. The fun to drive in the open. You need earplugs against the sound of the wind. It challenge you senses.
I permit myself so now and then a rewire from ERE.
Two years ago I bought a little MX5 mazda sportscar, just for fun driving, it uses less than half of the gas-mileage of an S-class.
(And sold my mercedes because that one was so comfortable I became sleepy when driving).
Ahh, this was the last time I spent all my money on one thing. Kind of a groundbreaking moment as a child. It never happened again. It was euphoric till this odd feeling of guilt came on when I realized I’d saved a couple of years to get it. One of those transformational moments in life.
I keep my old Mercedes cars because I know all their diseases and can cheaply manage them. I’m also addicted on some level. Heck it’s a $2000 car that is easy to fix.
MX5s are cool. My first ten commercial exhaust gas analysis systems were sold to Miata Tuners on the Mx5world.com. My first product from my first manufacturing run from my first business. That sale recouped a good portion of my R&D cost in one shot. Another time I sunk a good portion of my savings into one thing. Love those cars.
@jamesR @sclass so, do you consider this a "bug" that needs to be fixed or a "feature"? If a bug, can it be fixed? If a feature...I guess you wouldn't be referring to it the way you did. Or is there some third alternative between bug and feature?
jacob wrote: It's interesting because this kind of understanding of nature is the Stoic equivalent of what meeting God is for monotheists. Stoics considered humans to be the only ones capable of grokking nature. That's why humans were considered special. Of course, grokking nature required much effort so it was not for everybody.
Right. I was attempting to differentiate between experiences you can purchase vs. experiences that require some effort and/or personal inputs. For instance, the difference between the experience of viewing the pyramids for the first time as standard tourist vs. somebody who has studied the historical era in great depth.
I would also note that hedonic adaptation is often only cyclical and should not be confused with "not wanting to want" or garden variety repression and/or depression.
Yellowstone Park to Moab to Lake Powell and ending in Zion via Bryce Canyon.
doesn't have to be that expensive. it's a couple days' road trip, best done at a leisurely pace. brute's not super into nature, but that was some of the best nature he's ever witnessed. flying there would probably be the most expensive part.
Right. I was attempting to differentiate between experiences you can purchase vs. experiences that require some effort and/or personal inputs. For instance, the difference between the experience of viewing the pyramids for the first time as standard tourist vs. somebody who has studied the historical era in great depth.
I would also note that hedonic adaptation is often only cyclical and should not be confused with "not wanting to want" or garden variety repression and/or depression.
What you said in the first paragraph seems to circle back to my (perhaps too frequently repeated) mantra: happiness (or contentment if you prefer) comes from within. That seems to foster a degree of investment of one's self into activities, even simple ones, which makes them more rewarding. In the best case the process is as rewarding as the result. I'm getting dangerously close to Zen-ish ideas of mindfulness and immersion in the present with that.
Regarding the second note, and somewhat in response to what Sclass and JamesR have shared, I found myself going down the path of what I felt was, for me, unhealthy aversion to spending. I talked about it in my journal or somewhere and expressed the overall experience as reasserting that the purpose of the stash was to serve me (in the process of building and cultivating the stash that had gotten reversed) so I spent a bunch of the stash on a cabin in the woods. A very materialistic act, but rather than reinforcing a slavery to consumption it was liberating. There's nothing wrong with being more frugal than me, or more dedicated to environmentalism or whatever, but if a person begins to feel boxed in by it I'd offer it is not much different than be trapped in a job because of the paycheck.
@IlliniDave: last sentence: well said!
@Jennypenny and Jacob: looking for the meaning of life will be an unanswerable question I think. You can look for the meaning of your own life. For me it is being as wise as it goes, and avoid to do things which make me unhappy.
@JamesR: This is an aside, not aimed at you, but this whole argument - do Big Things loudly with a lot of money - is such extraverted BS. Doing things in your free time (expensive or otherwise) is not inherently superior to learning things, thinking things or even just being things, except that doing provides more opportunities for the Facebook/Instagram posts which generate admiration and envy - the real experience that "everyone" is looking for these days. These people aren't going to Paris, they're signalling that they're rich enough, idle enough and woke enough to go to Paris. And they're hinting that if similar signals don't emerge from your down time, you're poor, have a bad job and are a socio-cultural cretin.
Generally I'd say the best advice is to drink deeply from the right well. What's your favorite thing to do? When money is no object, I mean.
I would say it is harder to argue against people of the experiences not money bring happiness, because there seems to be a large amount of superiority that the people that value experiences feel they have over those that value things. Though to me when it comes down to it owning a thing is a form of experience, just a different one than those people value and often experiences do include needing to own things too.
If I want to get into for example photography as a hobby would probably be considered an experience by many, but it also comes with a bunch of items one needs to purchase. This goes for many hobbies, some more expensive than others. One the flip side a hobby like gaming or watching TV/movies for many would be considered buying things, yet when it comes down to it they are both products and experiences.
Also being FI is a form of experience, but rather than a positive experience it's more of a lack of negative experiences that occurs 5 days a week for the rest of your life. I simply value this lack of negative experiences far more than most positive experiences. I may be an odd one in that I don't get a lot of pleasure out of many experiences, travel for me is more of a bother most of the time that often isn't worth the hassle of the actual spending and travelling itself.
Now of course I don't spend nothing on things or experiences myself, however I feel that the experiences over things/money concept is way overblown. It just comes across as feeling superior about the form of spending you happen to personally prefer. It might be true for you, but that doesn't make it universally so.
I am not as materialistic as I used to be but I'm never getting to the point where I'm happy sitting in a cabin by a pond all day swatting bugs and measuring the circumference of squirrel shit in cubits. I would like to go to Rome. I would like to rent out a bowling alley in a economically distressed manufacturing town and invite all the local raunchy women over to bowl and drink watered down beer for free. And if I find myself alone, I would like to move to Amsterdam and spend my golden years on hash in the red light district. I think bi-furcating experiences that do/do not require money to be constricting. It's just not how things are and why imprison oneself in such thinking.
