News - Online vs paper

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jacob
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News - Online vs paper

Post by jacob »

In dealing with news, I think news sources can be ranked something like the following from good to total shite:
  1. Daily newspapers (print or kindle) [preferably 3: one from "each side" and one international from the "outside"]
  2. Websites of said newspapers.
  3. Aggregators
  4. Social media
Somewhere on this list is "no news". I've met people who did no-news for a year experiments. "No news" is IMHO better than social media under the theory that it's better to be uninformed than misinformed.

Historically, I've moved down from the top (I grew up with a newspaper subscription, albeit only one). I switched to websites of a bunch of newspapers (I had a selection of tabs I could pull up with a single click back in 2005). I discovered aggregators in 2013 or so. First google news ... and then memeorandum when google news switched their format to a white-spaced "playskool"-style. And I'm hooked. I think I spend way too much time reading the news these days. Indeed, I can probably spend a whole day just keeping up. The only upside is that I know almost everything that happened during the day and that within 30 minutes of it happening. The downside is that I also know a lot of irrelevant stuff (breaking news and developing stores) which can best be classified as noise.

Then I read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/tech ... apers.html (of course it appeared on the timeline of my aggregator :-P ) ... suggesting that switching to paper/daily would cut out a lot of the noise in the form of "reactions and opinion-eds", which yes, does provide some value but with poor ROI. In contrast, print-based newspapers try to print only what's fit to print, relatively speaking.

Kindle subscriptions are ~$15/month, so I'm almost thinking it's worthwhile if I can use it as an excuse to avoid my precious aggregators or trying to get my "fix" by cycling through the various news websites instead.

Also, https://qz.com/1222019/stop-reading-the ... -informed/ (thanks again aggregator :? )

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Bankai
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Bankai »

No news here. I did a 30-day trial something like 2 years ago and it sticked. I used to read weekly magazines, check websites of 4-5 newspapers and some news portals. I don't miss it. Less time wasted, less anxiety and fear of future. 99% of news tries to plant fear anyway. Didn't notice any drop in quality of life. When there's something really important (Brexit, Trump) everyone around talks about it anyway so it's difficult to miss. Another terrorist attack, stupid thing a politician does or even someone 'important' saying something - I don't need or want to know about it. Market news in form of trading updates or half-yearly/annual reports give decent overall view of economy without having to read actual news.

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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Farm_or »

I sometimes miss holding newsprint. But this information age has made it so easy to get that daily fix.

I like two news sources (Google and Reuter), but sometimes a forum (like this one) peaks my interest to learn more about a subject.

Sometimes forums have better perspective than I can find anywhere else.

LoriMeyers
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by LoriMeyers »

It's interesting that you mention this today. I just finished reading The Black Swan, and the author mentioned his aversion to the news. As a result, I deleted the news apps and notifications on my phone a few days ago. I don't participate in social media or watch broadcast television, so no problems there, but I've actually been experiencing a bit of withdrawal from my previous "all news, all the time" mentality. To me that's just a sign I was definitely overdoing it, so I'll get through it, I think. I'm looking forward to the next few weeks, and seeing how the experiment turns out.

Also, my library card gives me free access to various websites where I can read daily newspapers and magazines digitally. Something worth looking into in case your library does, too; you can skip kindle subscription fees.

Riggerjack
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Riggerjack »

Unless a topic catches my eye, the election of '16 burnt out my news receptors. The signal to noise ratio is just too low.

It hasn't changed me much. It has just made it easier to step back from the battle of shirt color. I used to watch from the sidelines, and sometimes cheer, but now it's just the same old game, with the same old rules.

This has caused me to more easily see where my thoughts are different from a party line. It's easier to disengage my inherent urge to argue, and instead, try to explain. As an example I would point to the last firearms thread. I'm still a gun nut, and while my arguments started out the same old way, looking at data, trying to point out flaws in others' reasoning, eventually I did get to less explored territory. Too bad that by the time I did, the thread seems to have run its course.

Or maybe it's just another thread I killed.

IlliniDave
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by IlliniDave »

Mostly I've pulled the plug, but depending on my commute times I get a little of the NPR morning news (somewhat left, and increasingly so) and then a bit of Sean Hannity on the way home (opinion, not news, and leaning right to the point of sometimes being irrational). At most, 20 or so minutes of either. While I'm at home I tune it all out. I do pick up a small amount of second-hand economic/financial news over at bogleheads.org, and a smattering of more diverse items here.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by ThisDinosaur »

I enjoy the Trump+Russia conspiracy stuff like it's a Clancy novel. Deep in the weeds of real world spycraft.

I kind of wonder what the practical application of being "informed" by news is supposed to be. How do you use the information? If I'm reading a news story, I like to try and compare the narrative to something I've read about history. Like Ray Dalio says, which "type of thing" is this?

Farm_or
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Farm_or »

In a democratic republic, you have to be informed on a lot of things to make voting decisions. And there's this other crazy part of citizenship called jury duty.

Living in Oregon, we get all kinds of decisions that make the ballot box. The most recent was a health care bill that was difficult for a fiscal conservative to decide. Being well informed helps more people make the right choices.

Serving jury duty for an unfortunate four times has left me with some observations. One particular would be participant was so self absorbed and clueless that it was completely ridiculous. I could only hope that when that person stood trial that the jury would be as uncaring!

DutchGirl
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by DutchGirl »

I would experiment with the Kindle-subscription, Jacob. See what it does for you for say, a month. Do you feel as well-informed? Do you have more time to do other stuff? Do you feel happier with your life or less happy? Etc.

We have recently had a paper newspaper subscription for a year. But we cancelled it, because it became a chore pretty soon. I'd think: oh yeah, I still have to read the paper. Because I am subscribed to it (paying money for it) and because otherwise it would be a total waste of paper. So the newspapers would generally pile up for a few days, unread, until I would throw them out. Or I would read them but not for fun or because I was interested, but as a chore indeed.

I now have the digital app for the same newspaper, and I most often read it during train rides to amuse myself. And no guilt for skipping a day or multiple days.

The Old Man
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by The Old Man »

Digital works. I have an electronic subscription to the Economist. Personally, I think the Economist is the only news worth paying for.

J_
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by J_ »

Why stay informed Jacob about "news"? Is it because you have stocks and you will anticipate if things go wrong? Is it just a curious mind? like you be informed over the latest political ripple or social development?

I have more or less unhooked myself from "news". To me it is utterly wasting time and brain-power. I follow only one blog, this one. And from that I get enough information about new books, insights, even recipies. And I like to spend time in libraries and bookshops, to browse through real books/dvd's and find gems so now and then.

So, I have no "chores" to read "news" as Dutchgirl rightly says.
And thank you that you notice yourself that you have spend too much effort and time in staying "informed" about "news". For me it is much better to concentrate on things I like to learn about, or to do outdoor sports, to read books, to think, to maintain stuff, to play music. Though for me hardly any "news".

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Seppia
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Seppia »

FYI Jacob the NYT regularly has promotions, I have a digital only subscription that I pay 1€ per week (promo lasts one year but if you cancel at the end they always offer to renew it). You can get them directly on their site as opposed to via kindle.
Other than that I use Bloomberg’s site.
Most of the news I consume are economy-stock market related, I try as hard as I can to avoid “everyday”news because most of them are noise (ie things that are irrelevant to me).
For the important, big picture stuff, I try to have a balanced mix of sources, but I mostly lean towards commentary rather than news (ie: Books, The Economist, Businessweek etc) and a bit of very established newspapers (mostly NYT though).
I’m aware there may be a “liberal” bias but I don’t really care.
The hard part today is not obtaining information, but sorting and navigating through the bullshit.

Luckily I have almost completely eliminated social media, I only use a bit of twitter these days.

tommytebco
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by tommytebco »

I have the local paper delivered each morning. I don't really care about the news, but CROSSWORD PUZZLES are where it's at!!!

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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by jacob »

Observations at the 10 day point of this experiment + summarizing some points made above.
  • My screen time has decreased by a lot. Turns out that without a continuously updated news stream, I get off of my chair and go and do other stuff. This is good!
  • I used to know more or less why a given market sector was moving on a given day. Now I don't. I worry that I might lose my ability to see the matrix... when it comes to the markets or at least that it atrophies to a point of being useless. This is bad!
  • Previously, when DW asked me if "I heard about ... < politics >" my answer was always something like: "Yeah, that was [1, 2, 3] days ago" almost without fail. Now, my answer is either "Ehh, no?" or "Hmm, sounds important, so maybe I'll read it in the paper tomorrow." Puts us more on an even level wrt information as we're now equally delayed on average. This is good?
  • I DO feel compelled to read the entire paper because I damn well paid for it. When I started my finance job in 2012, I subscribed to FT. It was the same thing. Spent two hours each day reading the whole thing. However, after about a month, it seemed that it would be more useful spending those two hours reading textbooks, so I canceled. This is bad!
  • Low-information diets seems attractive to the individual but it is definitely bad for the herd. The lack of information makes one more susceptible to no-information or misinformation and we've all seen what this will do to the democratic process. I'm not sure reading a curated newspaper is better than reading "everything" and doing my own curating, but I'm sure it's better than reading nothing or relying on facebook memes. Staying informed is mandatory for a functional democracy.

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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by J_ »

That are VERY interesting observations! Thanks Jacob.

1 is good, you don't want to become a "news" zombie

2 yes you are/were? (very) good in foreseeing the "matrix" as you called it. I remember that you was one of the very first who said that it was not ridiculous that T might become the next president. But to what price do you want to continue reading the matrix? There is such more to live and love in life I think

3 is more "normal" Is not measured along good or bad

4 is the same (bad) conclusion as: I paid for this restaurant meal so I have to eat it all.

5 Yes that's it: "Low information diet is attractive for the individual but definitely bad for the herd". "And staying informed is mandatory for a functional democracy" I agree completely. But sometimes in my life I like to be one of the herd. And choose for the low diet and at the same time to be connected to a source on which I can more or less some time rely on. Such a source are these forums. And now and then I dive into some deeper level of information myself. And now and then I try to contribute to this forum.

( because I can live with the very low yield of my savings (I have hardly any stocks), I negate the Stockmarket completely. That is my choice. Which gives me the freedom to be not connected (to the financial markets)).

Riggerjack
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Riggerjack »

Low-information diets seems attractive to the individual but it is definitely bad for the herd. The lack of information makes one more susceptible to no-information or misinformation and we've all seen what this will do to the democratic process. I'm not sure reading a curated newspaper is better than reading "everything" and doing my own curating, but I'm sure it's better than reading nothing or relying on facebook memes. Staying informed is mandatory for a functional democracy.
Funny, I would describe a news junkie as someone with a low information diet. Lots of content, little information.

I didn't give up news to concentrate on getting my full ration of Kardashians. I just replaced low information news for a higher information collection of blogs, though most of them are not reviewing current events. Enough reference to current events comes up that I search for any items of interest.

Not that I would recommend what I have done to the average news junkie. Most aren't interested in more detail, just more Drama. More secrets, and more scary Russians. I recently watched a national news show that was almost entirely made up by newscasters reading the tweets of public figures, and editorialized them like they were somehow legitimate news. If I still watched the news, that would make me question why. There may be news out there, but it's not worth mining. Rather, I accept the delay of reading the work of others, because they will find more of the picture, and insights than an entertainment channel trying to compete with Facebook for clicks.

disparatum
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by disparatum »

I have also struggled with reading too much news. It had been a big time sink, on the order of 10-20 hours a week. I think for me it is a function of high "transaction" costs to do something more worthwhile in my downtime. I can read the news for 5 or 10 or 20 minutes, or I could spend the time trying to figure out something more worthwhile to do, and by the time I've gotten everything in order to go do it, I've run out of time because I have an appointment or meeting or talk to attend. Or I tell myself I'll only spend 10 minutes, and then get sucked into a blackhole and come to an hour later with nothing accomplished.

For me, a better solution has been not to actively eliminate news but to make it easier to substitute in other things I personally consider a better use of my time. So I carry around a task list with the tangible and concrete next steps for various things I'd like to accomplish (I think I got this from the Getting Things Done book), and when I have free time I will scan this list and knock some of those things out. This helps me just start DOING things without getting overwhelmed by how big the task seems because I haven't really thought through the individual steps I need to take to get it done. This has been helping me a lot the past few weeks. At the end of the day, I find I've had very little time to gorge on the news.

Now, I still read the news but much less. I have academic subscriptions for $1/week to WSJ and NYT and I get FT for free through work (I actually get all print editions free through work, but I tend not to read the news that way). However, most of the articles I do end up reading from them are through links from memeorandum (I simultaneously love and hate the fact that I learned about this website from you, jacob) or abnormalreturns. I also keep track of blogs I'm interested through feedly, but again, if I make it as easy as possible to do other things, I find I read them much less.

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Seppia
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Seppia »

Riggerjack wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:54 pm
Funny, I would describe a news junkie as someone with a low information diet. Lots of content, little information.
I didn't give up news to concentrate on getting my full ration of Kardashians. I just replaced low information news for a higher information collection of blogs, though most of them are not reviewing current events. Enough reference to current events comes up that I search for any items of interest.
That is what I am trying to do as well.
Most of today's news is just noise (ie anything that Trump tweets gets a lots of views/air time, but there's almost zero "information" we don't already have), shifting to "commentary" for me is a way to try focus on the relevant / big picture stuff.

Today the issue is not getting "information", but being able to select what is worth reading/viewing/paying attention to

MegaRigger
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by MegaRigger »

jacob wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:54 am
I think this list makes a lot of sense.

What about just buying the weekend edition? Usually a big part of the noise has already been filtered out and there's more space for in depth interviews and op-eds.

For a daily update I believe a well curated twitter list can do the job.

About your last point. Isn't simply impossible to stay updated on everything well enough to make an informed decision about everything? I guess the best theoretical outcome would be if the population was divided into pieces and each of them only followed certain subjects.

Farm_or
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Re: News - Online vs paper

Post by Farm_or »

Variety is important. Don't fall in the trap of always browsing or tuning in to your comfortable places.

There has always been fake news, that's not news. It was called bias and propaganda. The best defense a democracy has is variety. Make habit of listening to the other side, no matter how whacked and outrageous they may seem.

How much variety do the people of Russia, China, or Iran have? It's not necessary in totalitarian government.

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