Firearm Recommendations

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TopHatFox
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by TopHatFox »

Radical Personal Finance did a podcast on the five best guns to own for a personal armory. In order of max use to the average person:

1. Snub-nose Revolver
2. Glock 17 PIstol
3. AR 15 Rifle
4. Remington 870 Shotgun
5. Sniper Rifle or AR 10 Battle Rifle

Just remember that something like 2/3's of gun deaths are from suicide.

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

jacob wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:13 pm
Hmm .. looks like I wasted an entire afternoon researching red state vs blue state civil war then ...
Haha are you saying I need to lay off reading too much Zero Hedge?

I don't think we'll get there honestly (at least I hope not!), but ya, I think I would put my money on the rebels this time around if we did.
Last edited by Mikeallison on Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bryan
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by bryan »

jacob wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:13 pm
Hmm .. looks like I wasted an entire afternoon researching red state vs blue state civil war then ...
Alabama unexpectedly blue team as Nick Saban lays his cards on the table.

BRUTE
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by BRUTE »

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:07 pm
hard to suicide with a 20" barrel :D

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

BRUTE wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:35 pm

hard to suicide with a 20" barrel :D
Good balance, and a stong big toe?

Riggerjack
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Riggerjack »

In order of max use to the average person:

1. Snub-nose Revolver
2. Glock 17 PIstol
3. AR 15 Rifle
4. Remington 870 Shotgun
5. Sniper Rifle or AR 10 Battle Rifle
Because "the average person" would get Max usage of a snub nosed revolver, a gun good against targets out to around throwing distance. But the 5th most useful gun is nearly useless inside that range. Niether come to mind as particularly useful.

Makes me wonder if this list was originally compiled as guns most likely to be found in video games.

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

Riggerjack wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:14 pm


Because "the average person" would get Max usage of a snub nosed revolver.
I don't know, shotgun is my go to, but if you are set on a pistol the snub is...

Light weight, low recoil, much less prone to malfunction, simpler than an auto to use in a stressful situation, decent power with 38+p ammo, and less likely to snag on something on the draw (especially if it doesn't have an external hammer). It is also small and light enough that you are more likely to take it when you go! My kimber is awesome, but I often grab the snub because the 45 is a nuisance to conceal, and it is heavy!

Yes they are inaccurate as hell, but in a hallway or a bedroom? Someone mugging you in a parking lot? I'm likely to get at least a few center mass at that range easy, and my girlfriend is even more lethal (her gun). I will admit it is a 3 inch barrel, so kinda long for a snub.

If it is in the house I would recommend a 12 (20 is great too, it's what I have) gauge pump with an 18.5" Barrel. But I wouldn't knock the snub just because of the barrel length, all pistols are pretty useless without training and practice.

Riggerjack
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Riggerjack »

Oh, I have one. But it wouldn't be my first choice for any job.

Though the featherlight revolvers are very light, if you need a lightweight carry piece.

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jennypenny
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by jennypenny »

For home defense, I've had two different cops tell me that a shotgun is best because it's a visual deterrent, easy to use, and least likely to cause you legal problems afterward. They said cops are must less twitchy around a home owner carrying a simple wood-look shotgun than someone carrying anything tacticool, especially if they can't determine the number of rounds in the magazine. Makes sense.

jacob
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by jacob »

Okay, why snub nose? It seems like a longer barrel should make intuitive aiming easier (at least that's been my airsoft experience). Perhaps aiming at these distances doesn't matter? Perhaps a short barrel swings faster? Is lighter?

Riggerjack
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Riggerjack »

It's easier to carry. That's it. Lighter, smaller, easier to conceal. Plus, after you empty it without hitting your target, it's a good size for throwing.

George the original one
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by George the original one »

> It is more than just a tool, it is a symbol of indivdual freedom.

Owning something as a symbol is the worst reason to own it. Nothing is so empty for ERE as "status symbol".

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

George the original one wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:47 am
> It is more than just a tool, it is a symbol of indivdual freedom.

Owning something as a symbol is the worst reason to own it. Nothing is so empty for ERE as "status symbol".
Ah but this functions as more than just a symbol doesn't it? This isn't a pair of shoes. It is zeus's thunder bolt incarnate. Both the symbol of empowerment, and the means to it.

The ugly truth is the foundation of our republic isn't the constitution, it is men with guns. All laws have the threat of violence behind them, if you break a law, the government uses violence against you to see that that law is enforced.

An armed public acts as a check and balance to this. As long as the laws are seen as just by the public, then no single armed man can challenge the state. If the public sees the laws as unjust however, well then they can band together and fix the issue.

People who view government with a cynical eye see the sense in this. People who view the state as a benevolent entity, that is incapable of trespassing on the rights of its citizens, don't get it. They think it is co-operation, not the equal threat of violence on both sides, that holds it all together. I'm on the cynical side, so were the people who created our "benevolent" state.

I'm ranting way off topic for like the third post now, lol. I'll take it on over to the political forum after this one.
Last edited by Mikeallison on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

@jennypenny

“Tacticool.” Thank you so much for this!

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

Riggerjack wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:13 am
after you empty it without hitting your target, it's a good size for throwing.
Haha!

How often do you shoot the one you own? I'll admit they are a challenge, but all pistols are a challenge. I'm not as good as this guy with one, but I'm close. And I've never had to resort to chucking the gun to hit my target, even when It was new to me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-524ef2ck

For a beginner I can see why you would recommend a longer gun, but if they just want it for home defense, no pistol compares to a long gun anyway. If it is for carry, the the answer should be any pistol, just train with it! Without the basics and practice, the extra barrel length isn't going to do you much good.

Riggerjack
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Riggerjack »

I bought a .32 mag snub nose at the Great Seattle Gun Bazaar, I think I wrote about it here. I bought it from a man who inherited it from his father, but had no use or desire for one, and didn't want any trouble selling it.

I generally shoot down in my gully, at about 15-20 yards. I shoot at playing cards. If I'm slow shooting with friends, we only count pips. And I generally don't score well in that system. 1 point per diamond shot, 3 points to remove a corner with the number, 5 points to cut the card in two. Yes, I'm cheap and don't like to change targets.

When I am shooting alone, that's when things get creative. I have to be careful, because I only have 10 acres and neighbors, but I also have hills and gullies. I put on my knee and elbow pads. I shoot off hand, or while running or at moving targets, or charging a target while maintaining suppressing fire, or while diving for cover, you get the idea.

Cops shoot at ranges. Because cops have an entire full time backup team. I shoot in all the messed up awkward positions I can think of. Because I don't. If I have to use a gun, it probably won't be while standing in a well lit space at a cooperative, still target. So I don't train for that.

As for accuracy, the snub nose will hit a sheet of paper at 10 yards but a card is luck and pips are random. My Glock at 20 yards, I can hit a card on a draw, double tap, but I'm not sure about that second shot, it misses as often as it hits. Using my wife's Kimber, I can count pips, but still not compete with my friend, he is a great, natural shot.

I don't understand why someone would choose a low capacity, inaccurate gun, unless they were nearly certain that they would never use it. Cops can do this, because they can draw and expect not to be shot for it. I'm not a cop. I have no intent in ever threatening anyone with a gun, so if it's in my hand, it best be up for whatever task is necessary.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I want to thank all the forum members again, not only for their advice, but also their patience.

I opened the thread with “in light of today’s highly polarized atmosphere” and then later in the thread made regrettable comments that were political in nature. I find the forum unique in the breadth of understanding its members have of others who are different. By making such comments, I’ve taken away from the forum, instead of adding to it. I sincerely apologize for that, and I hope to correct this moving forward.

I’ve been dealing with considerable friction in all relationships lately: family, friends, and at work. How much of this is attributable to my own shortcomings, I do not know. I have been reducing my social engagement across the board, as bringing up unusual ideas (such as ERE, amongst others) evokes irrational and violent responses from people. Socializing can be fun, but not when I am being continuously ridiculed or disrespected. Even my so-called closest friends have turned mocking me into a daily pastime.

I feel thankful to get help from such wise people. I feel here I am in the midst of accomplished and honorable ladies and gentlemen. I hope by observing you all, I can elevate my own manners, rather than allowing myself to be dragged down so low as to be hateful.

Mikeallison
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mikeallison »

Riggerjack wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:57 am
I don't understand why someone would choose a low capacity, inaccurate gun, unless they were nearly certain that they would never use it.
I get where you are coming from, but I can at least tell you why I carry the snub most the time. I used to carry my full sized kimber 1911 when I first got my permit. Lower capacity than a 9, but a very accurate, relatively powerful handgun.

After awhile I realised something. It sucked to haul around. Not just the weight, but the bulk. It was hard to conceal without it "printing", it was hard to draw quickly because of the way I had to carry it. It would bother me sitting down too. Because of this I found myself just leaving it at home more often than not, until pretty soon I just stopped carrying it.

My girlfriend had the snub before we met, like you I just assumed they were a last resort kind of deal. We took it out and I found that after a bit if practice, I could hit stationary clay pigeons from 8-10 yards without much trouble in single action. Did more experimenting and figured out I could hit a man sized silhouette target from the same range in double relatively quickly off the draw.

So here is a gun that is a breeze to carry, it feels no more obtrusive than a clip on belt knife. It is reliable, easy to use and has decent proven stopping power. But more importantly, I actually take the damn thing! Is a full sized pistol Better? Well of course, a long gun is an even better choice. Would you want to carry a rifle around everywhere though?

If you stop and think about how everyday crime happens, it is face to face anyway. Probably pretty rare that you get mugged or held up from 20 yards away eh? For me the snub is a great compromise between functionality and convenience. I'll bust out the kimber if the zombies ever come.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

@Mikeallison
What snub do you and your girl own? I agree that it shouldn’t be your primary pistol, maybe not even a primary conceal carry. I read what you wrote about the concealed hammer, I’m interested in the the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38 special. J-frame looks beautiful and seems like a great weapon of last resort. Not something I would have in place of a better gun, but a gun to have when having anything bigger is not an option. Also, I watch too many movies and probably have romanticized the revolver.

I went shooting my friend’s pistols and realized I can’t hit much. I’m sure I can get better with practice. He had a Ruger .22, Glock 9mm, S+W .380 and .45. The .22 felt like a suped up BB gun, he admits it’s just for the range. I don’t think I would spend money on such a gun. I want the plausibility of real-life usage. I seemed to be most accurate with the .45, but maybe that was just luck. I have big hands. His Ruger .22 jammed. A word of caution for cheaper guns and cheap ammo.

The shotgun seems preferable for home defense. I hear everyone about the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500. Does anyone here have the Bellini M4? Hopefully I can try some shotguns soon. I like the idea that if I am faced with a checkerboard of guys good and bad, I can avoid shooting the good guys using the Bellini. The AR-15 videos scare me with their indiscriminate fire. I don’t know if there’s ever a scenario when I have to blast at people from over 100 yards. If I’m ever faced with a scenario where the AR-15 is more useful than the Bellini M4, I’m probably better off just running away at that point. I’m looking for defense, not assault.

The Sig Sauer Academy is in my home state. I’m looking to try the 1911 and the P229, to start. Not only would I get training for former law enforcement and special ops, I would get a discount on what are expensive guns. I agree with Augustus, quality matters. I don’t think I would want to spend money on a less expensive gun, to eventually supplant with a higher quality gun, when I “graduate.” As Jacob says “beware of the man with one weapon, he knows how to use it.” I agree, but if someone grabs ahold of my shotgun or if I run out of ammo, it would be nice to have weapons which are complimentary. If I splurge for a Sig, and maybe even a Bellini, an inexpensive Mossberg and also inexpensive 38 special snubnose could round out an arsenal and provide redundancies.

Taleb: “Always diversify more than you think you need.”

Live free or die.
Last edited by Mister Imperceptible on Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jacob
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Re: Firearm Recommendations

Post by jacob »

Since you guys are currently talking phone-booth (or room-sized) handguns, what's the opinion on non-lethal weapons of the same range? I'm thinking OC spray and tasers.

To me this comes down to making type-1 (false positive, e.g. a family member, an unarmed idiot, ...=> manslaughter charges => prison?) vs type-2 (false negative, e.g. being outgunned by a criminal/zombie and dying) errors. Given the probabilities for each kind of error as well as my age, wealth, and general life-attitude (religion?) multiplied with the aftermath = two different expectation values, one larger than the other, I prefer to avoid type-1 errors.

Somewhere I saw some startup working on a non-lethal OC gun (think paintball style delivery) where the idea was to spray the area and retreat. Key was you just have to blanket the area with OC smog (you don't have to hit them... which is hard anyway, see above ... just hit somewhere around them) which an attacker would then have to run through.

Lacking that, there's standard OC spray which comes in two variants: Directed (narrow beam) and fogging (wide beam). This would also work on crazy dogs.

How do tasers compare? They're a one-shot operation which isn't very attractive. Also do tasers shoot through a winter coat?

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