Agrarianism and ERE

[chenda]

@fiby41Re Indian religions, Jainism's 3 central teachings seem very relevant at the present time; non violence, non possessiveness and non absolutism.

[NPV]

I am going to bite as well and try to defend both hunter-gatherers and the modern world

Hunter-gatherers theoretically had lower standard of living (reduced consumption)...

Well, really depends on how you value various components of consumption. How much would you have to pay today for a diet the staples of which would be something like organic free range bison, organic blueberries and wild caught sockeye salmon? A kilo of wheat or whatever agricultural civilizations have been feeding 99% of their population for 90% of their history seems a bit cheaper...

while the technologies used to produce food and the energy required to produce food are basically the same as they were 100 years ago

Wow. Have you seen the cost decline curves and adoption rates of solar, wind and lithium-ion batteries? Green revolution, synthetic biology, precision agriculture, clean meat?

[7Wannabe5]

@NPV:

I don't disagree that human hunter gatherers likely had a good quality of life as opposed to standard of living. Anarchist-intellectual James C. Scott, in "Against the Grain" suggests that the barbarian hordes that co-existed with the first relatively small agrarian city-states might have had the best of all worlds, because in addition to wilderness resources, they could intermittently attack and plunder the agrarians. Kind of like how a modern urban freegan scavenger can pick berries in the park and get food out of dumpsters.

The thing that boggles my brain a bit is what is the possible purpose of an argument pro-hunter-gatherer lifestyle within the reality of a planet currently heading towards best-case-scenario equilibrium at 10 billion humans? Hunter-gatherer lifestyle requires approximately 100 acres/human. Current reality is less than 2 acres/human. Return to ideal hunter-gatherer lifestyle would resemble something like you and 64 of your favorite people wandering around a 10 square mile compound inclusive of some fresh water source. The interesting thing to note is that since $4000/acre is near median price for rural property in the U.S., 65 forumites with funds adequate for SWR just a bit more than 1 Jacob could choose to cash out their investment accounts and return to such a lifestyle on something resembling a rational basis. IOW, the current cost for sustainable Hunter-Gatherer Lifestyle would be approximately $400,000/human with at least a few hours/day of work required by each human. I, of course,would be the tribe member attempting over and over again to make something like cookies out of berries, maple syrup and acorn meal This actually kind-of resembles the external-inputs-limited-experiments being attempted with some large perma-culture projects.

The other funny thing to note is that although absolutely not the case that everybody could do it, since virtually nobody is even attempting it in our modern affluent societies, it is possible that a modern human could podge together a 100 acre range to scavenge upon within distance of day hike, even precluding dumpsters. Of course, some obvious methods such as netting fish would likely be illegal, so that would increase the challenge.

Wow. Have you seen the cost decline curves and adoption rates of solar, wind and lithium-ion batteries? Green revolution, synthetic biology, precision agriculture, clean meat?

Once again, I don't entirely disagree. What I meant by technology being the same is that a modern tractor is still a tractor, just like a modern car is still a car, in spit of all the bells and whistles. It hasn't become, for instance, a hovercraft or a transporter. And SOP is still "tilling the soil."

OTOH, even home gardeners can benefit from the last 100 years of scientific research in areas such as genetics and soil microbiology. For instance, the whys and wherefores of multi-color ears of corn are scientifically understood to the extent that I could attempt to breed varieties to market to particular college football team fans (in addition to charming moss-covered hypa-tufa mascot garden statuettes.) For less than $300 I can buy a microscope with a digital camera attachment that would allow me to explore and document the burgeoning healthy life within the soil in my hugel-bed vs. the original hard-packed urban-core. I probably won't buy a garden robot, but all sorts of Chitty-chitty-bang-bang solar fresnel lens steam-punk mechanisms could be put into place to aid with chores most like drudgery.

I probably can't explain very well, but "commodification" is what must be avoided, so you have to either stay at the level of home/tribe production or jump up to the level of specialty production. IOW, anything you intend to trade outside of your designated system boundaries for cash must bear your unique maker stamp. Otherwise, you are just a pawn of the market.

[jennypenny]

Slightly OT but maybe not ... a couple more studies that show that people are mentally healthier when they live near greenery.

WaPo: Study: Being around trees and other greenery may help teens stave off depression

Harvard: Living near greenery linked with lower teen depression

Harvard: Greenery plays key role in keeping women healthy, happy

[7Wannabe5]

Interesting. I am going to take a serious note about the lowered deaths from respiratory disease for women. Also, I have always believed that walking for one hour/day in natural setting was #1 mental health boost. Nothing else touched the efficacy of that practice when I was tracking daily happiness levels.

[7Wannabe5]

I read an article on the future of farming in the most recent edition of "Costco Connection" magazine I found in a pile with WSJ and Barron's over at my super-wealthy friend's house. Robots everywhere! I was particularly impressed by how some of the farmers were using high tech to help close resource loops. For instance, one giant greenhouse system was able to close the water use loop to the extent that virtually all water coming into the system exited the system in the mass of the produce itself. However, what I am wondering about is the "cost" of the high tech inputs themselves.

My optimistic notion of the moment is that maybe the whole transit from industrial economy, to scarcity industrial economy, to scavenger economy, to eco-technic economy can take place in a dispersed manner with any given micro-industry (for instance, strawberry production) cycling through as warranted and thereby greatly reducing the possibility of overall collapse?

[Jason]

Wendell Berry

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/vide ... -kentucky/

[7Wannabe5]

@Jason:

Thanks for the heads-up.