Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I once had a BF who got grouchy because I bought my own coffee at a highway rest-stop during a road-trip while he was in the men's room. When I related this incident to a group-not-unlike-this-one I belonged to at the time, many of the men advised me that I ought to dump him, because he was too controlling. So, I see this issue as being on the sort of 4 quadrant diagram we all love, with the axis labelled "Pay" and "Say." So, for instance, a young man who does not yet have "enough" money and/or does not enjoy his current means of acquiring money, and who is not yet accustomed to frequently being in positions of leadership, will doubtless prefer to find or place himself, in a different range on the graph while dating, than an older man, very accustomed to taking the lead, with either a very well-paying career that he enjoys, or more money than he can enjoy on his ownsome at the margin, especially if time is his most limiting factor.

Since I am not a person with fussy preferences AND I am not currently interested in fully engaged partnership with a man, it does not bother me to let a man have the SAY when he also expresses intention to PAY, as long as he doesn't monopolize too much of my time or active attention. IOW, when a man requests the pleasure of my company, he first must exceed the opportunity cost of my alternate solo or other-social plans, such as watching "To Call a Midwife" while eating homemade soup, plus the energy necessary to change out of my flannel pajamas, take a shower, and maybe even put on some lipstick. Generally, some combination of offer of Thai food, hawt sex, and request for help with identifying odd insect in his garden will suffice. Suggestion that I might want to transport myself to his place to watch football and pick up/pay for a pizza on my way, EVEN if hawt sex is in the mix, likely will not.

Cross-post. Nod at EdithKeeler

ETA: So, obvious reason why it is less expense/hassle for men to date other men is that they already have more interests in common, generally inclusive of a desire to get laid with more frequency and less context/foreplay.

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Seppia
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by Seppia »

I think you could just switch to a different type of location for future first dates.
Also, aren't you in NYC? Uber should be unnecessary there :)

I think it's just polite for men to pay on the first date, but I'm italian so very conservative/old school in this type of matters.

I also am with Jason, at the 30 minute mark I would have left

Tyler9000
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by Tyler9000 »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 pm
Just spent $60 on a date with a woman who showed up an hour late and proceeded to say that it's okay that 6 people own the majority of wealth, because they give people jobs. We all just need to work hard enough. She then went on about her plan to make it big in real estate and business and to not be "absurdly frugal." The kicker - she studied philosophy and psych on her parents dime, her parents bought her her SUV, and she tells people that they're not doing enough because she's out there volunteering helping poor people.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure she's similarly telling all her friends about the nightmare SJW who immediately peppered her with political questions on their first date before insulting her degree, family, car, and charity work. :roll:

Here's a personal challenge: on your next first date ask absolutely no politically charged questions. Try talking with her like a normal human being and asking about her family, job, and interests. Draw her out of the box -- don't shove her in one. It's fine to take mental notes on compatibility, but don't be judgmental if she's different than you. That's what makes life interesting outside of the bubble! If you can't do that, then she's not the one with the political problem. Just sayin'.

phil
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by phil »

So you made a mistake. Learn from it and move on. It's not this particular woman's fault, nor that of the capitalist system or of women in general.

To most young guys that are struggling and feeling depressed my advice would be to get laid. But somehow that doesn't seem appropriate here. So go outside and run for 10 kilometers or whatever distance is beyond your comfort zone. Or buy a punching bag and hit it until your hands bleed. Stop complaining.

I know I sound harsh, but I honestly believe you should get out of this pattern of negativity and complaining about others and circumstances. And yes, I have had friends dealing with depression and this kind of advice usually helped.

TopHatFox
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by TopHatFox »

Tyler9000 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:51 am
TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 pm
Just spent $60 on a date with a woman who showed up an hour late and proceeded to say that it's okay that 6 people own the majority of wealth, because they give people jobs. We all just need to work hard enough. She then went on about her plan to make it big in real estate and business and to not be "absurdly frugal." The kicker - she studied philosophy and psych on her parents dime, her parents bought her her SUV, and she tells people that they're not doing enough because she's out there volunteering helping poor people.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure she's similarly telling all her friends about the nightmare SJW who immediately peppered her with political questions on their first date before insulting her degree, family, car, and charity work. :roll:
She started it actually. It's what happens when you put two INFJs in a room maybe :P

TopHatFox
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by TopHatFox »

@phil: I'm not complaining without reason. The first step to finding a solution is to admit there is a problem. Some of the lessons here being Skype or coffee date first and maintain a high SMV. Dating has a million parallels with sales, down to sourcing, non-attachment, and numbers. From what I've read, external life circumstances tend to get better after 5-10 years in post-college world. More experience working and more capital saved up. The key now is to simply bunker down and get there. Then I can tell people younger than me to shut up and stop complaining :P

James_0011
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by James_0011 »

I don't think its easier for women than for men. As a man, you need to set boundaries - which I understand may be hard for you.

First Date Costs:

- Coffee - $2 - $5 (DO NOT pay for hers)
- Transportation - $0 (have her meet you close to your place)
- Time - $0 (Just leave if she's more than 15 minutes late)

If you get into a relationship with someone who thinks she can walk all over you my opinion is it's going to be a shitty relationship anyways. Also, I would not take any dating advice from a female.

TopHatFox
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by TopHatFox »

@James, agreed. Yeah, I definitely agree on always splitting. I may add something brief on that before the date to make things smoother. One-sided connections are something I've sworn off for good. First sign or two, and they get deleted. Is what it is.~ I have been meeting people midway to wherever they live, but I'm going to ask for them to come closer to mine and see what happens. Most folks assume you have a car, so 5-10 miles in winter is no big deal. lol. Definitely on the leaving. Going to start doing that more from now on.
Last edited by TopHatFox on Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tyler9000
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by Tyler9000 »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:08 am
She started it actually. It's what happens when you put two INFJs in a room maybe :P
Well, in that case I guess she got exactly what she bargained for. ;)

I'm probably just old-fashioned, but after living in both an uber-conservative Dallas suburb and uber-liberal Silicon Valley I generally find the over-politicization of human interactions on all sides to be just kinda juvenile and shallow. I can't imagine pestering someone about that on a date, as personal compatibility is about so much more than tribal affiliation.

BTW, I feel your irritation about spending too much on a date. Be smart about it, but don't let it get to you. Money is a clever master, and can rule you equally by obsession with wealth or obsession with frugality.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

theanimal
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by theanimal »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:40 am
Most folks assume you have a car, so 5-10 miles in winter is no big deal. lol.
Really?? In NYC? It was my understanding that many folks in NYC do not have cars. At least all the 20 somethings I know IRL who live there don't.

TopHatFox
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by TopHatFox »

I'm 20-30 mi north of NYC, bunch of small downtowns next to suburbs

NYC is much worse though, in terms of money pits per square mile, pollution, congestion, noise, lack of trails, etc.

daylen
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by daylen »

That sounds terribly stressful. Good exercise of will power to say the least.

OTCW
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by OTCW »

Grab a coffee and talk for a first date if you are an easy talker. Tell her you'd like to buy her coffee when it is time to pay. If she demures, let her buy her own.

If you aren't an easy talker, something that is more of an event would be easier - movie, museum, etc.

Dinner on a first casual date seems like the worst of both worlds for you. Particularly in this case where you didn't seem to mesh with her at all from the start.

saving-10-years
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by saving-10-years »

@THF voting for your solution - to get the e-bike up and running.

You would have saved $30 and presumably would not have felt like (having spent that money) you needed to wait around for an hour.

BRUTE
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by BRUTE »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:43 am
I've been on many dates with women where I as the man am supposed to decide where to go and what to do, with no input from the woman. It's annoying and uneven frankly. Same with pillow lovers.
the government should do something about it! from each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

TopHatFox
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by TopHatFox »

I don't like the government either (y)

thrifty++
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by thrifty++ »

Dinner on a first date always a bad idea. Too much time and being trapped

The_Bowme
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by The_Bowme »

I tend to frame it as the person who invites the other pays, for at least the first date. In practice this is almost always the man, but is a way to justify it in an egalitarian way, while also avoiding running afoul of potential gender expectations. If there is a compatible match with me, and my ere values, this will likely reach equilibrium in a dutch style relationship, whether its taking turns paying or always splitting. I think part of this is signaling that the person has far too much value to be score keeping on who's spent more, balanced by a mutual level of interest and investment in the relationship.

With that said, I highly prefer coffee or bars for first dates, usually within walking distance from me (no sense in two people going out of their way!). If you are looking to artificially heighten chemistry, bars are good. I found that it was better to not do that, so as to get a better feel for what the long-term chemistry would look like, so I eventually preferred coffee. There are some women who will view this as cheap, but that generally means they're coming from an incompatible frame anyway.

Anyway, I have had fun dating and the relationships I've been in, including current, have fit into my cheap lifestyle very well. Good luck!

JamesR
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Re: Spent $60 on an in-person date. Fuck that

Post by JamesR »

lightfruit55 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:56 am
Is going dutch a western thing or a male-ERE thing?

I'm from Asia (Singapore) and in my experience, generally, guys pay for the first date and for dates in general. Also, generally, aspersions are not cast on women who expect men to pay for dates in Singapore.
In Asia, I usually go dutch for the first date, it's never been an issue. It would be too costly to pay for every girl that I meet, also it sets the wrong tone on the relationship. I'm not willing to be a sugar daddy. I try to only meet women that have jobs. Many times they will actually pay for my coffee or meal on the first meet.

(I'm currently in South-East Asia (Vietnam right now) again for the last 4 months, plus I've been in SEA cumulatively 30 months before that).

It's not strictly a western thing, there's still a fair amount of men paying for women in america or europe. It's not strictly an ERE thing either :)

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