Work, is it so bad?

[Stahlmann]

I sometimes think that:
- jacob is sale representative for retailer investment bank (this why he posted so many ways to stretch the dollar and then poor people can loose "the rest" money in evil stock market)
- brute represents some IT tech company which fishes for new candidates (so many good information about work and then positive information about work and later...)

I'm joking.

[jacob]

@Stahlmann - You think too much. See Hanlon's Razor: Don't attribute to evil what you can explain by ignorance. Of course, ignorance is so endemic that evil pretty much has free reign, so there's that...

[BRUTE]

is Dear Leader Jacob insinuating that brute is ignorant?

elaboration dearly requested.

[wood]

This thread reminded me of Slomo, that guy who skates all day long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn87-mcnoVc

[James_0011]

I literally see nothing enjoyable about working. I think most people don’t ere because 1) social pressure 2) social status 3) lack of knowledge that ere is possible 4) inability to keep expenses low.

I think a lot of it depends on how “normal” you are and want to be.

[BRUTE]

literally nothing? it is never fun, even once in a while?

maybe brute is not normal, but he enjoys at least 50% of his work these days. sometimes more, sometimes less.

[suomalainen]

Brute has never been seriously accused of being normal. Even on this forum.

[Fish]

Wondering when brute will start the "Life, is it so bad?" thread.

[bryan]

Some work is bad/horrible. Some work is good/awesome. Why participate if it's bad? The current trendy method for avoiding participating in bad work is accumulating FU money.

I forget what thread.. but in the past we laid out some reasons why one might want to continue working (e.g. collaboration being more effective than toiling alone or having more resources for experiments).

Agree on the consumption/ego angle too.. just this week w/ the Spectre and Meltdown vulns I've felt left out since I'm not working on operating systems or CPU/HW Systems architecture/design any longer.

[James_0011]

@augustus +1

[James_0011]

A good illustration of why work sucks http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home

[BRUTE]

what pisses me off about steady employment is that I have to do the same damn thing day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day...

brute agrees. anything would be terrible if it had to be done day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day...

work seems to be one of the few things that mostly come in a day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day package, making many humans hate it.

brute imagines working 3-9 months out of the year, only on the more interesting projects, or maybe a 3-4 day work week, would be good.

[Mister Imperceptible]

I would still rather be scuba diving though.

40 hours a week?

maybe that's part of it - even the nicest things, brute doesn't necessarily want to do for that long. Cowen makes the point in the video that for how great sex is, most humans only spend a tiny percentage of their time on it. same is true for eating. brute would probably work only 20-25 hours per week if it was completely optional. but he can't really think of anything else that he'd like to do 40h per week, either.

Methinks Brute does not know what to write his opera about! When he does, Brute will want to work 80 hours a week!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GtaxU6DZvLs

[Mister Imperceptible]

A good illustration of why work sucks http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home

[Lillailler]

One thing about paid work, and not exclusively employee work, is that being paid for doing something gives you affirmation. I mean, as long as you are alive you are doing something with your time, and there are plenty of people around who would like you to spend your time helping them, and most of those would like you to do that for nothing, but at least when you do work and get paid for it you know that your time and effort was given a value by someone else, and if they valued it too low, well maybe in future you should charge a bit more. I could go further and say that the exchange of money for work - rather than say working out of duty, or family obligation, or group solidarity, or self-sacrifice - actually purifies the relationship between worker and paymaster. I choose to work to get your money / You choose to give me money to get my work. If either party doesn't get a benefit the relationship is dissolved with no reason for resentment on either side. Of course this means you don't get to moan about how your job sucks, either, but maybe that's a win too....

[Farm_or]

@Lillailler - great points. In the history of the world, we have the best system so far: incentive labor.

What would be the alternative if we allowed a bunch of lazies to to nothing in favor of society? To spend all of their time contemplating their own righteousness all the while consuming and defecating what is provided for them.

They would have nothing to offer in trade for their living. The government would have to ultimately use slave labor to provide for the do nothing, lest the food, clean water, and sewer services would stop.

What do you hate about work? Doing what must be done vs what you would like to be doing. A child becomes an adult when they come to accept that they are here to serve others and the self serving center of the universe ideal ends.

[7Wannabe5]

@Farm_or: I would note for the record that there are some people and other complex systems, that would derive benefit from your or my work, but do not possess money to pay you for it. For instance, I don't require cash payment as affirmation when I choose to pick up some litter some azzhat dumped in a wetlands, or go out of my way to see to it that a child who was sent to school with a burning fever gets some sort of attention, because I possess some sort of totally crazy intuitive ability to assess value even in situations absent a price tag.

OTOH, in any situation involving competent adults contracting with other competent adults, I would default to what Lillailler said too. So, for instance, I might say to one of my affluent polyamours, "I am happy you are taking me out to dinner, because I am exhausted from my semi-charity work.", and he is free to decide whether he would like to continue to de facto contribute to the charity of my choice.

[unemployable]

I wish it were easier to downshift while staying W-2. Four-day workweeks or the ability to take long periods off (outside of paid vacation days). For something that's $100k/year full-time I'd be happy to work four days a week for say $75k, and probably get about as much done as I would have going in five.

You do see it with admin staff (my last real job had admins who didn't come in on Fridays), nurses, factory workers and the like.

There was definitely stuff at my last job I considered a privilege to do. Most obviously meeting with prominent investment managers, in their offices overlooking Central Park or Boston Harbor or whatever, asking them whatever I wanted for 30 minutes.

[BRUTE]

brute has seen both 4 day work weeks and 3 months unpaid vacation per year. they were both special arrangements, but not unreasonably difficult to achieve.

[unemployable]

brute has seen both 4 day work weeks and 3 months unpaid vacation per year. they were both special arrangements, but not unreasonably difficult to achieve.

My sister's done weird stuff as an RN, like a "week" of three 12's. Fire and police do similar shifts.

For a short time I worked at an engineering firm that did 9-9-9-9-4. Out Friday at noon. Everyone got their work done because no one wanted to be there on Friday afternoon. If there was enough work everyone did work a full Friday and got overtime.

I feel like the 1970s energy crises would have been the perfect time to go to a 4-day week on a larger scale.