As a regular Costco shopper, I'll back everything seppia says about them. Our shopping is done at Costco for most everything, then fruitstands for the minor veggies. I don't buy onions or potatoes from Costco, I just can't get through them fast enough to justify the large quantities, but most of my veggies are from Costco, and that won't change until I start growing them myself.
Most of what comes into my house comes from Costco or the internet. We don't have an Aldi's on the west coast, but we do have discount grocery stores. The produce is similar, as is the price. Everything else is much better quality on average. The difference is so clear, consumers tend to just trust Costco to find a good compromise between price and quality, and not put any comparison shopping in for many purchases. It's common to hear a variation on "I just got a new big screen TV. Where? Costco, 80 inches! Oh, sounds spendy. Not really, just $XXX, I was buying some socks, and saw that, and just bought it! Was that a good price? I didn't check, I was at Costco, so probably..." So there is clearly a hazard to shopping there, but that's a self control issue, not a quality issue.
As to organic, it's been a few years, but when last I looked into this, it's all the same agricultural practices, but some folks are willing to pay big bucks for certificates, to massively mark up organics to suckers. Using approved pesticides isn't a big deal, but the time/hassle to achieve the certs is the reason most farmers don't get them. And farmers are very aware that the price differential of organics is temporary. The ones I asked basically said that they had missed that boat, and anyone getting in late will get killed. The higher costs, plus more losses, meet the lower prices as more farmers get certified.
Non GMO is a variation on the same theme with even less going for it. There are 14 genetically modified foodstuffs per USDA, and thousands of "non GMO" foodstuffs. Do your own math there.
Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
I've found this discussion very helpful and convincing - I've reinstated my Costco membership. I will have to focus on groceries there and steer clear from other departments. 
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Kriegsspiel
- Posts: 952
- Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
Seppia, can you explain the basis on which you're judging the quality of the items at the different stores? Are you going with an eyeball test, sourcing knowledge, something else?
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
I think Seppia's making a mathematical argument here? Though having compared food from Costco with normal grocery food in my area, it does seem to be a better value overall. It was stated somewhat axiomatically:
Quality is assumed to be directly proportional to cost, then this becomes something like:
Price = Quality * (1 + Margin) , which rearranges to: Quality = Price / (1 + Margin)
Or one can also think of it as: Value = (Quality / Price) = 1 / (1 + Margin)
Then for two similar items at identical price points, the retailer with the lowest margins has the highest quality product. Note that the best deals are supermarket loss leaders (Margin < 0).
Price (to consumer) = Cost (to retailer) * (1 + Margin)
Quality is assumed to be directly proportional to cost, then this becomes something like:
Price = Quality * (1 + Margin) , which rearranges to: Quality = Price / (1 + Margin)
Or one can also think of it as: Value = (Quality / Price) = 1 / (1 + Margin)
Then for two similar items at identical price points, the retailer with the lowest margins has the highest quality product. Note that the best deals are supermarket loss leaders (Margin < 0).
This is a really nice system Clarice! Simple and effective. Assuming prices are semi-stable then the categorization can be done once and shopping can be done from memory. Jacob's "limit order" price book idea results in better deals but requires some effort to track prices.Clarice wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:55 pmI mostly use a traffic light system to control the cost of food:
1. Green <$2/lb - these are my staples, e.g., organic potatoes, organic carrots, rice, organic drumsticks at Trader Joe's;
2. Yellow $2-4/lb - I still buy these foods frequently, e.g., organic beans, DeCecco pasta, canned wild salmon, Meyer lemons.
4. Red $4-6/lb - I buy these foods less frequently, e.g., bacon at Trader Joe's, organic or grass-fed butter, cheese.
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
Few reasons:Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:05 pmSeppia, can you explain the basis on which you're judging the quality of the items at the different stores? Are you going with an eyeball test, sourcing knowledge, something else?
First, I have direct knowledge of their product selection process (PM if you want more details).
They are among the very few retailers that put quality first: if your product isn't "good" (defined part subjectively, part objectively - ingredient list, production process, heritage, panel tests etc) it won't be in their stores, no matter the price.
Second, I have worked in some form in the food business for around 23 years*.
For this reason I know many suppliers (who makes the good stuff, who makes shit, etc), I have lots of contacts in the food world and can recognize food quality easier than most because of experience.
*9 in a restaurant (weekends only + school holidays) starting when I was very young (6 of which in the kitchen starting as potato peeler and ending as a sous chef) and 14 in sales, both in foodservice and retail, in europe and north america.
@Fish: just to nitpick
Margin 13% means that when a product is sold for $100, the margin of the retailer is $13. So if you wanted to calculate their shelf price based on their sourcing price the equation would be
Retail price = Cost / (1 - margin)
What you are describing is called "markup"
Retail Price = Cost * (1 + markup)
Small technicality but it can make a big difference at higher margins (ie 50% margin = 100% markup)
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
Hey, Seppia, since you seem to know a lot about the topic of retail and supermarkets, could you give some suggestion/analysis like you did for the US for those of us that come from Europe? I am particularly interested in Italy (yes, we are connationals 
) and Germany (yes, I am one of those young traitors that decided somewhere else the situation is better ).
The supermarkets that are more prominent in Germany seem to be Lidl, Aldi, Rewe, Penny, etc. In Italy I come from an alpine valley, where the choices are limited, but I would like to know what you consider the best anyways.
) and Germany (yes, I am one of those young traitors that decided somewhere else the situation is better ).The supermarkets that are more prominent in Germany seem to be Lidl, Aldi, Rewe, Penny, etc. In Italy I come from an alpine valley, where the choices are limited, but I would like to know what you consider the best anyways.
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
Ciao Frapa
If you are a "traitor" for moving to Germany, what should be said of me? I am now back in Italy, but I have lived more than 40% of my life abroad (france and the USA)
I am not as well versed on the German market to be honest, I have only had a few contacts but no ongoing real business with Rewe and the likes.
I know the discounters because of their presence elsewhere.
Whet I can tell you for sure is that Aldi and Lidl will be the ones to work with the lowest margins, and it's probably not close. I generally don't like their quality thogh, so I would be prepared to pay more for an upgrade (I am extremely picky wit my food).
Regarding Italy, there is Esselunga, then everybody else.
They have been the subject of multiple case studies, they are a world class operation.
A very good option in the alps is Iperal, and in lombardia is Iper.
Hope this helps
If you are a "traitor" for moving to Germany, what should be said of me? I am now back in Italy, but I have lived more than 40% of my life abroad (france and the USA)
I am not as well versed on the German market to be honest, I have only had a few contacts but no ongoing real business with Rewe and the likes.
I know the discounters because of their presence elsewhere.
Whet I can tell you for sure is that Aldi and Lidl will be the ones to work with the lowest margins, and it's probably not close. I generally don't like their quality thogh, so I would be prepared to pay more for an upgrade (I am extremely picky wit my food).
Regarding Italy, there is Esselunga, then everybody else.
They have been the subject of multiple case studies, they are a world class operation.
A very good option in the alps is Iperal, and in lombardia is Iper.
Hope this helps
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
@Seppia - Thanks for the nitpick, that's how I learn. And one more thing about Costco is that they accept returns, even on produce. That's another incentive for them (and their suppliers) to provide quality products, otherwise they'll get returned.
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
what about dumpster diving?
In switzerland, I mostly found vegetables, expensive transformed products, and bread. It's extremly fast (you get in pick everything in ok condition, and you get out), it seems ok health wise (many vegetables, completed with some whole bread) extremly cheap (free), you get extra happy when you find cheese or chocolate (instead of buying it whenever you wan't), and you get the thrill of bringing back a prey after a dangerous hunt.
In switzerland, I mostly found vegetables, expensive transformed products, and bread. It's extremly fast (you get in pick everything in ok condition, and you get out), it seems ok health wise (many vegetables, completed with some whole bread) extremly cheap (free), you get extra happy when you find cheese or chocolate (instead of buying it whenever you wan't), and you get the thrill of bringing back a prey after a dangerous hunt.
Re: Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket
There are other options for those of us who do not live near a Costco.
I spend way too much food and due to health issues I have to be extremely careful about what I eat.
I have found ways to save money on the food I do eat. I have a house, large yard, and live in a suburban/rural area. Since I have a very large garden I am shifting to growing most of my herbs, veggies, and fruits but this is not a solution for everyone.
I prefer pasture raised meats and I tend to buy them by the whole or half an animal. I get the organs, soup bones, fat and other bits too. This requires a freezer chest to store the meats and a commitment to cooking and using all the cuts. I have become a much better cook by simply pulling a something out of the freezer and googling recipes for it. I buy beef, pork, lamb, turkey, duck and chicken this way. I source them from local farms often ordering them months in advance. The animals are sold by the hang weight and butchering costs due to federal regulations in the US and may be done differently in other countries. I chose the cuts and weights of the packages. When I pick it up it is all ready to go in the freezer. While this is not as cheap as just buying sale cuts of meat at the supermarket it is cheaper than buying grass fed/pasture raised meat at the supermarket or local farmers market by the cut.
While most people are not prepared to buy a 1/4 or 1/2 a cow at a time you can still save money. In the 20 years I lived in apartments in cities I had a small freezer chest. I would stock up on a good sale and divide the meat up into meal sized portions wrap them in plastic and store them in the freezer chest. This would get rotated out every 2 to 4 months based on sales. I still do this for things like ham, bacon, ground beef, and other deals I come across. Turkeys around Thanksgiving are so cheap it doesn't make sense not to buy a couple extra.
When buying chicken I buy whole chickens and the largest ones I can. The bone frame of a 4 pound chicken is about the same as a 6 pound chicken so you get more meat on the larger bird. This applies to turkeys and duck too. I usually roast the bird for a meal and then use the leftovers to make several more meals and then the bones and other left over bits get made into a stock. All left overs are stored in serving sized containers in the freezer or pressure canned for later use.
I have friends with fruit trees, shrubs and vines that can't eat everything the plants produce. So I will help them pick and process the fruit and take home boxes of it to freeze and preserve myself. Some of the local farms do pick your own fruits and veggies. While fruits are the most common in my area a few farms do pick you own veggies at the end of the season and it is a great way to stock up on veggies to freeze, can or store like butternut squash. If you have friends who garden you could trade helping in the garden for produce. I have been on both sides of this arrangement and it has worked well for me.
Batch cooking is a great way to cook from scratch and I package everything in meal sized containers. Why go through all the trouble to cook one meal when you can spend a fraction of the time making more to eat later. This is a life saver on days when I am having a bad symptom day and my husband takes lunch to work instead of buying food out. This alone saves us money and he is healthier that when he eats out.
I spend way too much food and due to health issues I have to be extremely careful about what I eat.
I have found ways to save money on the food I do eat. I have a house, large yard, and live in a suburban/rural area. Since I have a very large garden I am shifting to growing most of my herbs, veggies, and fruits but this is not a solution for everyone.
I prefer pasture raised meats and I tend to buy them by the whole or half an animal. I get the organs, soup bones, fat and other bits too. This requires a freezer chest to store the meats and a commitment to cooking and using all the cuts. I have become a much better cook by simply pulling a something out of the freezer and googling recipes for it. I buy beef, pork, lamb, turkey, duck and chicken this way. I source them from local farms often ordering them months in advance. The animals are sold by the hang weight and butchering costs due to federal regulations in the US and may be done differently in other countries. I chose the cuts and weights of the packages. When I pick it up it is all ready to go in the freezer. While this is not as cheap as just buying sale cuts of meat at the supermarket it is cheaper than buying grass fed/pasture raised meat at the supermarket or local farmers market by the cut.
While most people are not prepared to buy a 1/4 or 1/2 a cow at a time you can still save money. In the 20 years I lived in apartments in cities I had a small freezer chest. I would stock up on a good sale and divide the meat up into meal sized portions wrap them in plastic and store them in the freezer chest. This would get rotated out every 2 to 4 months based on sales. I still do this for things like ham, bacon, ground beef, and other deals I come across. Turkeys around Thanksgiving are so cheap it doesn't make sense not to buy a couple extra.
When buying chicken I buy whole chickens and the largest ones I can. The bone frame of a 4 pound chicken is about the same as a 6 pound chicken so you get more meat on the larger bird. This applies to turkeys and duck too. I usually roast the bird for a meal and then use the leftovers to make several more meals and then the bones and other left over bits get made into a stock. All left overs are stored in serving sized containers in the freezer or pressure canned for later use.
I have friends with fruit trees, shrubs and vines that can't eat everything the plants produce. So I will help them pick and process the fruit and take home boxes of it to freeze and preserve myself. Some of the local farms do pick your own fruits and veggies. While fruits are the most common in my area a few farms do pick you own veggies at the end of the season and it is a great way to stock up on veggies to freeze, can or store like butternut squash. If you have friends who garden you could trade helping in the garden for produce. I have been on both sides of this arrangement and it has worked well for me.
Batch cooking is a great way to cook from scratch and I package everything in meal sized containers. Why go through all the trouble to cook one meal when you can spend a fraction of the time making more to eat later. This is a life saver on days when I am having a bad symptom day and my husband takes lunch to work instead of buying food out. This alone saves us money and he is healthier that when he eats out.