Balance between Health, Money, and Time at the Supermarket

[Seppia]

I did not say Costco is the cheapest, I said it's the best place to shop because it has the lowest margins, so you get the best value for money.

Quality is never factored in in Justin's analysis.
Costco quality is stellar, and completely night and day compared to Aldi and Walmart, whose lowest priced items usually fluctuate between terrible and abominable.

Costco will only carry the good stuff in general, they cater to a very specific consumer (did you know that the Costco shopper is the one with the highest average salary? More than Whole Food's? That's why they sell Omegas at Costco)

People make the same mistake here in Italy. There's a chain that is considered "expensive" but that just because they don't carry the lowest quality alternatives.
They go from good up, and at comparable quality they're actually the cheaper alternative.
So yes their cheapest available tomatoes will be 40% more expensive than Aldi's, but that's just because they refuse to sell you shit.

[jennypenny]

I think avoiding eating out/fast food is the biggest cost-saver, so while bulk purchasing may cost more pound per pound for some items, if it keeps your pantry full so you aren't tempted to eat out, then it's a win. Personally, I shop at BJ's not Costco.

I think weekly grocery runs can be an inefficient way of shopping for food. I shop quarterly at BJ's and our local restaurant store for bulk and pantry item which takes care of most of our needs so all I have to shop for weekly or biweekly is produce and dairy. That leaves me time to shop at the local dairy farm and some local farmers markets for what I need, which is a much more pleasurable way to shop. I also like supporting local farms. (and visiting the cows at the dairy farm )

Another suggestion is to learn how to cook a couple of basic, versatile recipes. Knowing how to make a soup or an omelette out of any ingredient is a great way to eat healthy and cheaply. If you also learn how to bake bread or roast the perfect potato, you're all set.

If you eat meat, roast some sort of beast on the weekend and make a few meals out of it. Buying meat whole is cheaper per pound and lets you cook in bulk. (I tend to do the roast, then a casserole/hot dish or stir fry, then a soup)

I don't skimp on the quality of ingredients but I also don't feel like every item is a necessity just because it's healthy (like avocados when you live in the northeast). I try very hard to avoid recipes with special ingredients like that. I view them as treats, not staples. I try things, but my regular list isn't full of expensive items or ones that are hard to get locally. I'm not completely rigid about it though --I treated myself to some mace for christmas and I'm having fun experimenting with it.

Here's a (US) guide to what's in season by month and state. Use it as a guide to what shop for ... buying in season is always better.

wow, that got long. The short version ...

1. shop in bulk for staples
2. shop locally for items in season
3. learn to cook some basic meals like omelettes and soups
4. don't feel obligated to incorporate trendy or expensive ingredients into regular meals
5. make #2 & #3 enjoyable

[jennypenny]

Sorry, that sounds kinda cranky (I'm getting over the flu).

I think shopping and cooking can be overwhelming when people don't have a meal plan or know how to cook a few basic things. I see people try all kinds of disparate recipes from Pinterest, but that gets expensive (in time and money) and I don't think it helps a person develop a functional collection of recipes.

It's all about tying things together (like everything else in ERE). I learned to make soup to use up all the leftover meat and vegetables from my other meals. I learned to make omelettes because eggs are cheap and omelettes are quick to make and attractive on the plate. If you don't like eggs, learn how to make a stir fry. If you learn how to bake bread, learn how to make french toast so you can use up the stale pieces on the weekend. Close the loops, as it were.

[vexed87]

I for one don't eat enough shop bought sour cream to worry about the preservatives...

I find that by mostly cooking from scratch, i.e. with veggies, rice, beans, potatoes etc, then when the time comes to add something shop bought (as in commercially processed foods, not fresh produce in a bag) it's not worth worrying about. I eat these products sparingly. As above, nail down a few good meals cooked from scratch for your rotation that don't rely on heavily processed goods, that way you don't have to worry about the odd convenience food thrown in if time doesn't always allow for home cooked meals. That said, the easiest way to get around this is to simply batch cook meals, and freeze them, ready for defrosting the night before you intend to eat them.

These days I honestly prefer my DIY attempts than most processed foods anyway. Once you've established the skill and habit of cooking from fresh produce, the supermarket pre-prepared versions are no longer appealing anyway, the taste is almost always inferior.

[cmonkey]

Costco quality is stellar, and completely night and day compared to Aldi and Walmart, whose lowest priced items usually fluctuate between terrible and abominable.

Gonna have to call that one out. Aldi has pretty fantastic stuff at least here where I am. We buy 90% of our produce there and I think I've brought back one thing in the last 2-3 years. I'm the guy growing 100% of my produce for 6+ months, so I know quality. We don't buy meat so can't comment on that, but they do have grassfed beef from New Zealand.

Take a look at the labels of a lot of their processed food and you'll actually be able to recognize almost all of the ingredients.

[EdithKeeler]

Gonna have to call that one out. Aldi has pretty fantastic stuff at least here where I am.

Big Aldi fan here. Their produce was better when i lived in Texas--closer to the source, I think--but it's still pretty decent here for most things that I use regularly--carrots, onions, cabbage, celery, and their peppers are always really nice and cheap at my location. Other stuff is generally good--I've noticed some improvement lately, so they may have a new supplier or something. Aldi is at least the same price in my area for meat, but I have figured out when they mark it down and have nabbed some great deals on things like pork tenderloin.

I read a blog not too long ago where she did an experiment with food prices and found Aldi's prices to be 41% cheaper than the local supermarket (which is usually what Aldi advertises), and about 20% cheaper than Wal-mart. Great prices on processed foods and canned foods. I don't buy a lot of processed stuff, but I do buy "meal helpers" for my mom, like stuffed shells, things like that, and they are very good. Aldi also finally has whole wheat pasta, which made me happy to see--I wish they'd get a few more whole wheat bread choices, but I suspect it's coming.

I also like the fact that I don't have to wander around a bunch of stuff I'm not interested in--electronics, clothes--or have to choose between 47 brand of pretty much identical cereal or whatever. I do shop at the regular grocery, but I'm happy to pay that quarter to rent my cart.

[fips]

I think shopping and cooking can be overwhelming when people don't have a meal plan or know how to cook a few basic things.

Accurate. And simply getting started with whatever small steps is keeping people from implementing a good routine as well.

[Clarice]

I also like the fact that I don't have to wander around a bunch of stuff I'm not interested in--electronics, clothes-

Agree! That was what bothered me at Costco. I felt that visits to Costco just increased our family's level of consumption, so I quit despite liking many things about it.

Also, would any of you like to sound off on the subject of organic vs. non-organic? I think this is complicated. Is made in China organic produce good? Is grown in Texas organic rice good? What is better, non-organic pasta DeCecco made in Italy or organic pasta made in USA (someone here has a strong opinion about this )? Also, my understanding is that when you buy organic tropical fruits, organic onions, garlic, olives, and many other things you are paying for the process of certification and that's all as the pesticides are not used on these foods. If you buy certified organic at farmer's markets you are just favoring the big guys who have the money to go through a bureaucratic process of certification. Has "Organic" become a big business and lost its original meaning? Is it now "Buyer beware" as everything else?

[Seppia]

The simple answer to the organic / non organic debate is

On average, organic product are of better quality than non organic ones, but there are so many other variables that "shopping organic" isn't at all a guarantee of quality and/or better taste

[jacob]

I think it's simple for anyone who doesn't eat more than enough vegetables already (myself included)... buy more inorganic because it's cheaper ... but for those who already eats tons of vegetables and can afford it, switch to organic or better, start growing some or all yourself. Quantity over quality and change once you max out. That goes for buying as well as growing.

[distracted_at_work]

When I was a kid I had a part time job (2 shifts/week) at an organic grocery store to pay for a school trip. It saved my entire family 25% on organic food and I got to take home anything expired for free. I have actually considered doing this as part of my ERE.

[Clarice]

@jacob - Wouldn't you be concerned that spinach, celery, tomatoes, bell peppers, and potatoes are on 2017 "dirty dozen" list and prioritize it above the price/lb?

[jacob]

Not as long as the alternative is non-vegetables like meat or rice or beans.

Note that I don't optimize this too much. I only pay Pareto level attention to this dimension.

[Chris]

Wouldn't you be concerned that spinach, celery, tomatoes, bell peppers, and potatoes are on 2017 "dirty dozen" list and prioritize it above the price/lb?

In defense of spinach

The "dirty dozen" list is based on the amount of trace pesticides per pound. I eat what most normals would consider a lot of fresh spinach, and it only totals about 14oz per week. I likes me spinach.

And just because it's organic doesn't mean there isn't poison sprayed on it.

[conwy]

Does Costco sell fresh vegetables?

[Family father]

For my American friends: Costco is by a mile the best place to shop for food. The reason is very simple: they have the lowest percentage margins of all retail chains.
I know for a fact that up until 3 years ago (I would be surprised if it's not the case anymore) margins on their dry foods (pasta, oil, rice, etc) were a flat 13%.
Other retailers vary by item, but a good guesstimate is 20-30% for Walmart, 40-50% for Whole Foods, and 30-40% for most chains.

Amazing data, Seppia!

I'd love to know that for the spanish food retailers!!

When I was a kid I had a part time job (2 shifts/week) at an organic grocery store to pay for a school trip. It saved my entire family 25% on organic food and I got to take home anything expired for free. I have actually considered doing this as part of my ERE.

This looks like a great idea: it was kind of standard procedure in the small supermarkets when I was young, I wonder which are the policies about that for retailers nowadays...

I think avoiding eating out/fast food is the biggest cost-saver, so while bulk purchasing may cost more pound per pound for some items, if it keeps your pantry full so you aren't tempted to eat out, then it's a win.

Yep. that's where I am now

I don't skimp on the quality of ingredients but I also don't feel like every item is a necessity just because it's healthy (like avocados when you live in the northeast). I try very hard to avoid recipes with special ingredients like that. I view them as treats, not staples. I try things, but my regular list isn't full of expensive items or ones that are hard to get locally. I'm not completely rigid about it though --I treated myself to some mace for christmas and I'm having fun experimenting with it.

Here's a (US) guide to what's in season by month and state. Use it as a guide to what shop for ... buying in season is always better.

I like this approach: if you buy seasonal, you get better quality-cost relation...

[Seppia]

Does Costco sell fresh vegetables?

Yes they do

For my American friends: Costco is by a mile the best place to shop for food. The reason is very simple: they have the lowest percentage margins of all retail chains.
I know for a fact that up until 3 years ago (I would be surprised if it's not the case anymore) margins on their dry foods (pasta, oil, rice, etc) were a flat 13%.
Other retailers vary by item, but a good guesstimate is 20-30% for Walmart, 40-50% for Whole Foods, and 30-40% for most chains.

Amazing data, Seppia!

I'd love to know that for the spanish food retailers!!

Thanks.
In Spain there is no exceptional case such as Costco*, but Mercadona is the one with the lowest margins together with the discounters.

*Costco is really, really unique in retail. Aside from Amazon, I cannot think of a retailer that is equally unique

[Family father]

@Seppia

Thanks!!!

You are a well of wisdom!!

[Seppia]

Some more info on the Costco / Aldi debate:

I don't like to sound like a dick, so sorry in advance if this sounds arrogant, I am really writing this in the interest of the community (because of my job, I think I have good reason to believe my knowledge of the food business and of the large retail chains is in the 99.99th percentile).

My point is that Costco provides the best value for money to the consumer because the margins are WAY smaller (in the aggregate) than any other retailer.
This does not mean they are always the cheapest, nor that they are the cheapest.
Costco quality is also very much above average, and quality has a cost.

As I stated in a prior post I know for a fact that up until 3 years ago (don't think this has changed) they put a flat 13% on dry grocery items (pasta, rice, oil, canned tomatoes etc). This is about half the margins of next cheapest (20-30% depending on the items).

They can do this because they have a completely different business model.
To keep things short (EDIT: well, not too short) the main differences are:

1- they have way, way less skus per type of item. Whole Foods, Shoprite and the likes will offer 10 different brands of pasta, times many skus.
In costco usually you can buy very few brands (often a private label and a brand), and for each brand the selection of skus is 4-5 tops: they are very efficient.
2- their customers buy in bulk, and they buy a lot of stuff: the average ticket is multiples of what it is at a regular retailer.
3- their customers pay a fee to access the stores: they are very loyal.

the above create a specific set of advantages that allow costco to work with the already mentioned much smaller margins.

I think we can all agree that the least margins are put on top of products, the better value for money the consumer gets.

1- allows them to negotiate prices better than anybody else because, for any given product category/segment, there's less suppliers to share the huge pie of Costco volumes (sometimes only one, as the brand supplier will also make the Kirkland product) - keep in mind Costco is #2 worldwide after walmart.

1- also allows them much greater efficiency. less waste = less costs.
People always bitch about how overpriced Whole Foods is (it usually is), but there's a cost in having three times the skus per square feet than the average retailer, there's a cost having more clerks, there's a cost having those ultra nice shelves and freshly prepred food.
Costco receives merchandise on a standardized pallet, and has specific packaging requirements that mandate that the only manipulations they have to do in store are 1) bring pallet in the dedicated spot and 2) remove a slip cover

2- allows them to distribute all fixed costs on a bigger volume, hence reducing the per-unit impact.
Any store needs to make X amount of money per day to be profitable, let's say it's $1000.
They can make those $1000 putting 20% margin on $5000 of daily sales or they can make the same $1000 putting 5% on $20000 of daily sales

3- locks customers in, it's kinda like a sort of amazon prime. they paid the fee so they feel obliged to always shop at Costco.
it also allows Costco to sell them a lot more ancillary services compared to the standard retailer.
The card allows Costco to also have unparalleled (except for online retailers) knowledge of the shopping habits of ALL cusomers, to be used for targeting and other stuff

The discounters such as Aldi or Lidl reduce costs and margins with efficiency, as they also tend to carry less skus compared to the average retailer, but they are not as efficient as costco, because they lack the huge volumes (they do not have the same bargaining power with suppliers, and they dont have the same massive volumes per store to spread their fixed costs on), they don't sell them "extra stuff" and they cannot target them as well.

some additional points:

- the above is valid in the aggregate: traditional retailers will have loss leaders, and I'm sure costco gets occasionally ripped off by a few suppliers, so, some specific items may be a better value for money elsewhere.

- Discounters have very little interest for quality, except for tactical reasons*. So they can often be cheaper than Costco. If a 25 year old Yugo is sold 20% cheaper than a new BMW doesn't mean it's better value though.

*Some of the tactical reasons may include a) getting some name brand and selling it at zero margin to instill the idea that "discounter X also has brands and has them cheaper than anybody else! they MUST be the best place to shop", and b) having a decent fresh grocery aisle (also run at a loss or zero profit) to give the idea that "they have quality stuff".

[Clarice]

@Seppia - thank you! I do believe that the perception of an industry insider is the most accurate. The trick is not to buy stuff that I won't use while there )