Get Paid To Live In Italy

[Seppia]

Ah ah
Yes I'm in sales how could you tell?

One potentially big downside of southern Italy is that the average level of English is even worse than in northern Italy.
You can communicate your basic needs and italians will naturally do their best to try understand you, but do not expect something similar to holland or the nordics.
Closer to France and Spain.
If you speak decent Spanish though people will understand 90% of what you say if you speak slowly, and it will not take you long to speak Italian.
As I always say when I joke with my Southern European friends, among all barbarians, Spanish people were those who destroyed Latin language the least
Italian and Spanish are very very close

[slowtraveler]

Seriously, you have me tempted to skip Taiwan and head straight to Italy after my current place.

Seria muy facil comparado con aprendiendo Chino. Por lo menos podriar leer menus ayi.

@Seppia
You mention these towns being economically depressed. Are they relatively died down or still alive with lots of fun things to do?

@Brute
I don't think you've even covered the Ps fully yet.

[Jason]

@ Seppia - above and beyond, paesano. Really.

You seem to be validating a common critique.

Positives: Beautiful weather, beautiful scenery, history/art/culture everywhere, great food, relatively cheap, peaceful, relaxed way of life.

Negative: If you suffer a bullet wound at lunchtime, you should expect to bleed out.

[Seppia]

@Felipe
All the south is economically depressed, unemployment rate is sky-high (around 25% last time I checked) and even worse for young people (15-24), well above 40%.
Small towns are a no go in my opinion, because on top of the economical suffering, they are also depopulating. Rural areas, similarly to the USA and the rest of the world, are taking a beating.
So while one could be able to live with close to nothing in beautiful medieval towns, he/she would have to be a semi-hermit.
I would stick to cities with population around 100.000 or more.

@Jason
Correct. The negative is much less true in the north though.

[TheWanderingScholar]

@Seppia; Please Stop. Please.

I don't want to restart my ERE journal and bail on little Eesti.

Especially Palermo.

(Don't tell henrik!)

Anyways, how would self-employmenet be taxed as I am learning SQL, Python, and other programming languages at the moment because I am a fucking nerd.

[Seppia]

Italy is one of the worst countries in the world as it pertains to taxation.
We have among the highest taxation on the planet:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC ... _desc=true
But the service we get in return is terrible*

I returned to Italy only because both my wife and I benefit from 5 years of tax reduction.
The government wanted to incentivize repatriation of skilled workers (skilled being defined as managerial work that required masters degree level studies) who had been living abroad for a minimum of 5 years.
Italy has a big problem today with a high percentage of the top students fleeing the country.

Italy is a terrible place to do business and to make good money.
This is the other side of the coin of being a place where one can live a great quality of life with little money.
Self employment is not only taxed like hell, it's also complete madness in terms of burocracy.
You definitely want to move here when your money making needs are minimal, or if you score a great job in advance.


*i always get mad when people talk about tax rate as it's something comparable: I paid a ton of taxes when I lived in France but in return I got functioning burocracy, free top class public healthcare, great public transport etc etc etc.

[TheWanderingScholar]

Oh shit, sorry mate. Did not mean touch a sensitive subject.

Yeah that self-employment struggle is a major bummer.

Sorry about bringing it up.

[Seppia]

Sorry about what? No issue whatsoever!
I'm just describing the negatives as well as the positives

I personally have no problems at all, quite the opposite!
DW and I are currently at the end of year 2 (out of 5) of a tax incentive program for repatriated workers as described above.
We only pay taxes on 50% of our income, which makes our effective income tax rate somewhere in the 20% range.

Even when we will pay in full, we'll still be ok, we make way more money than we need.
Nothing crazy obviously, but enough to save 75% now, probably 50-55% then.
We'll do fine.

I'm a great supporter of the "enough" attitude as described in Bogle's book

Anything you need ladies and gents, I'll do my best to help

[griffithee]

Bella Sicilia!!! I had the awesome opportunity to live near Catania (and Mt. Etna) for three years from 2005-2008. I absolutely love Sicily. I worked with several Sicilian locals and learned Italian. I thought I was pretty cool with my conversational Italian until I went to Naples. Went to a shop to order some pizza and tried to order in Italian. The server looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead. Neapolitan Italian is very different from Sicilian Italian. It seems as if I was speaking "redneck" Italian. Regardless, I love Sicily. I have so many friends still there. Can't wait to go back.

[halfmoon]

Seppia, there is an incredible amount of insight here. I'm never going to live in Italy, but it's still fascinating to read an insider's perspective.

[Kriegsspiel]

I saw a story about Switzerland doing something similar.

"To qualify for the bounty, candidates must be younger than 45, Swiss citizens or permanent residents and be willing to buy or build a house that costs at least $200,000. They also must commit to living in Albinen at least a decade. If they leave earlier, they would have to refund the money."

[Seppia]

Yes but they would have to live in Albinen
They'd have to pay me a lot of money for me to consider that
Thanks halfmoon for the kind words, I'll be adding some info on Naples soon.
@griffithee yes Sicilians have a very peculiar accent. The words they use though are 99% "normal", regular people don't speak the local dialect that much, they just speak italian with an accent (think Boston)
Much more frequent in Naples, Neapolitan is completely indiscernible for a non-local

[Seppia]

I got a PM with a few questions on where to stay in italy for some time in april, here's my answer in case anybody may need it in the future:


If you are looking for pure beauty at a cheap price, nothing beats the south.
I think Naples and Palermo are the best options. They are not the cleanest cities, Naples has a bit of annoying micro-crime but food is amazing and the places are stunning in beauty.
Naples is relatively close to Rome, is the cheapest large city in italy and has a very strong identity. Pompei and Ercolano are nearby, and are absolutely amazing.
Palermo is in Sicily so you are on an island, you're close to very nice beaches, you can go to Ustica (fantastic and wild), and its art/history is totally unique with its blend of arab, greek and roman history. You also get to tour Sicily which is one of the hidden gems of italy (Siracusa is a fantastic city too, but smaller)

If you are looking for safe and more efficient cities, the north is your best bet.
Trieste is the most elegant choice (one of my favorite cities in italy overall), used to be part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and is a border town.
Food is fantastic because it's a blend of italy and middle europe.
Downside: not super well connected to the rest of italy
Verona is also very nice, and one of the cities where people live better apperently (according to surveys). very close to milan, the best logistical hub in the country, but half the price.
Downside: weather is very hot in summer and very cold in winter - not an issue in april though)
Torino is also a good choice. Similar vibe to verona, probably not as beautiful, but even better situated (closer to the alps and to the beach).

A good compromise between north and south is Genova. Great weather, in 10 minutes you're at the beach and in 1 hour you're in the mountains, best food in italy (in my opinion), almost as cheap as the south, but equally as efficient as average cities in the north.
Probably one of the least beautiful cities in the list, but it's still Italy so you're not exactly in Cincinnati

in terms of pure beauty I would rank them
1 Palermo
2 Trieste
3 Naples
4 Verona
5 Torino & Genova

in terms of weather
1 Palermo, Naples and Genova
4 Trieste
5 Torino
6 Verona

in terms of food
1 genova
2 all the rest. those are all cities with phenomenal food

cheapest are
1 naples
2 palermo
3 genova
4 the other 3 equal

logistically if you want to travel around italy

1 genova
2 torino
3 naples
4 verona and palermo
5 trieste

[sky]

Would you recommend going to the larger cities or finding a smaller city to spend time in?

[Seppia]

I think large, but not largest (Milan and Rome) are best for italy.

[Seppia]

Few tips on where to stay near the center and places to eat in Palermo, Naples and Genova. Except for the last one, they are all cheap to very cheap places with delicious food.

Palermo try to stay near Piazza Marina. Go eat at Franco U Vastiddaru, for some phenomenal Pane con La Milza and general cheap eat https://goo.gl/maps/bqZvQw7JvCN2 and in Antica Focacceria San Francesco https://goo.gl/maps/7C6wpqRnkQH2

Naples try to stay near subway stops Dante or Università or Municipio. The best pizzeria is Starita near Materdei https://goo.gl/maps/HRhaWLQQc9R2 , good ones also are Gino Sorbillo (multiple locations but this one the oldest) https://goo.gl/maps/R49AVBEjiXR2 and Di Matteo https://goo.gl/maps/Qn6aQQi2C1k more downtown

Genova if you can stay around piazza de ferrari, downtown is nearby but not as crazy. the most beautiful part of the city is Albaro, but it tends to be very expensive.
Go eat in Farinata Santa Zita https://goo.gl/maps/bcvnmTmn2mD2 or in Sa Pesta https://goo.gl/maps/EEHtK6SPvGo
My favorite restaurant on this planet is La Piedigrotta, it is expensive but you MUST go there once in your life. try the Paccheri con sugo di Gallinella (fish pasta) https://goo.gl/maps/4zQHXwk1fRR2

[sky]

I spent some time researching Palermo and Sicily. There are plenty of apartments for less than $1,000 a month in the Piazza Marina area in January to March 2019. https://www.airbnb.com/s/Palermo--Italy ... g=uXCbQKLA

It may be noisy there. Some videos I saw showed interesting markets in small streets, but people were driving scooters through pedestrian areas. Apparently this is normal. Lots of interesting buildings. Looking at restaurant menu prices, and guessing at food prices, I estimate that two people could eat and drink for under USD$1,000, probably less. This is for two people who like to eat and drink, not ERE ascetics.

So in easy mode, using airbnb and eating out in restaurants a lot, it looks like USD$1,000 a person would be enough when sharing an apartment with someone else. When on location, one might find a cheaper apartment and learn to save on food cost.

[Jean]

Actually, Albinen would be a nice place to retire to. It's in the sunniest area in switzerland, it's close to a thermal station and fantastic skiing, it's close to the train network. Communting from there would be bothersome, but living there if you don't have to work would be great.

[Seppia]

Except you are in Switzerland, where breathing costs $10 per hour.

[Seppia]

@sky: $1000 per month per person is much more than the average local lives on in Palermo.
So yes, that’s VERY easy mode, I can confirm.