The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

[7Wannabe5]

Yeah, I think the only reason why some of the engineer-types I date don't trade me in for a robot is that they tend towards frugal, and I am still cheaper than a robot. Like how migrant workers are still cheaper than berry-picking machines.

OTOH, the men who will be most interested in robot-mates will be the ones who think of themselves as being not unlike robots. The kind of guy who instantly intuits what I mean when I say or signal "Let's play the Wolf and the Bunny", would be less likely to either want OR need to purchase Robo-Mate.

[enigmaT120]

"Like how migrant workers are still cheaper than berry-picking machines. "

Blackberries and blueberries are mostly machine picked now. I don't think they have been successful with strawberries yet, which is having the effect of reducing strawberry acreage in Oregon for some time now due to difficulty finding labor. It sucks because our strawberries are good.

[7Wannabe5]

@enigmaT120:

Unintended consequences abounding. Wonder if this is somewhat regional? I saw seasonal workers picking berries in Michigan last summer, and I read an article in alignment with my statement you quoted above not very long ago.

[Eureka]

Hi Fred,

I am still puzzeled by your statement (and generaly hate when one whole gender (I mean, you are talking about roughly 50% of the total population) is blamed of anything).

The fly in the ointment of ERE is women.

I guess you mean:

The fly in the ointment of your ERE is your unfulfilled sex cravings?

Luckily I have the solution for you: If you don't like women, why don't you just stick to men??

[C40]

Hey, we don't need to pick on FrugalFred.

Yeah the subject line is clickbaity and he didn't explain much, but his point is valid: that as an ERE person, it is difficult to find ERE-compatable partners (more difficult than a 'normal' person finding 'normal' partners). And one of the alternatives that could be tempting for some is to acquiesce to expectations of spending significant money on courting/seducing/whatever.

A couple points to add or agree with:

1 - As a person with some uniqueness, the thing to do is fly your flag unashamedly and in a positive (and not annoying) way. This helps you find ERE-compatable partners, and them find you. When you do find them, they'll be more into you than most men, and you'll both benefit from eachother's good financial habits.

2 - If you're talking mainly about having sex (rather than a serious romantic relationship), money matters less and less. You still may need to fly your flag in a way that shows you aren't a poor loser. A woman looking for a fuck-buddy is unlikely to be put off by a man who is going to retire early and is having success in that pursuit. She's not going to be more impressed by common non-ERE traits - an overweight sweaty guy who loves the NFL and drinks 22 beers a week.

An example: while I was in Seattle, I slept with a woman in her $2,000,000 house. She didn't give a damn about how much my house cost ($13k) or how many drinks I bought her (1). I was flying my flag, and she was impressed - not put off.

3 - Keep in mind that there is a trade-off occuring in dating. It's not just a one-way thing with only the men spending the money. Many women spend a TON of money on efforts to look more attractive. Shoes, clothes, make-up (that shit gets expensive), hair, nails, eyebrows, Brazilian waxings. If you aren't already doing so, consider eliminating over-primped women from your efforts. It's kind of like the Seinfeld skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9WJbbGYtyI. The men don't know what to do to attract women. We're building bridges, designing rockets, etc. Women are trying to make themselves look more attractive in ways that we men aren't even aware of.

[BRUTE]

*launches orbital space station*

maybe she'll notice brute now

[C40]

It worked for Elon Musk. He showed a girl (a virgin!) videos of his rockets at a party when they first met, and she married him. Married him twice.

[Jason]

I remember the days when simply blasting "Rocket Ride" from KISS Alive II could get you into a girl's pants.

[7Wannabe5]

The men don't know what to do to attract women. We're building bridges, designing rockets, etc. Women are trying to make themselves look more attractive in ways that we men aren't even aware of.

It may seem like women concern themselves with such matters in order to make themselves more attractive to men, but I actually think that most women are trying to make themselves more attractive to themselves, and sometimes even other women. Fashion is within the realm of applied arts, just like interior decoration, garden design, or pottery-making. It's often much more about how a dress makes you feel when you wear it, or how a room makes you feel when you enter it. Not some direct attempt to boost market value.

For instance, I happened upon this video the other day, and I immediately thought "I want that dress.", but what I really want is the feeling I think that she is feeling walking around in her flirty little pretty blue dress, barefoot, and singing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBH8o8XXnVM

Sadly,I must report many women in my acquaintance, will either err on the side of never affording themselves anything like "that dress", or never thinking that they deserve it or it would be right for them, or buying the concrete version over and over and over again, but never fully inhabiting the feeling. And this is can hold true over any number of a wide variety of possible feelings or situations or costumes combined with behavior.

I think the only men who fully empathize are the few more artistic exceptions to the rule of constant drab utilitarian uniform which constitutes modern majority male dress code. Whenever I look around at the other couples in some upscale setting, in almost every coupling in which the female half is noticeably more likely to be attractive when naked, the man either looks like he has money/success OR some degree of artistic aesthetic. That show "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" absolutely got it right. And exhibiting 99% more style than the average Joe does not have to cost very much money at all. One easy exercise is to flip through a fashion magazine or celebrity pics until you find some guy who vaguely resembles you, then challenge yourself to duplicate the outfit he is wearing for some minute fraction of what he spent by rummaging through thrift stores, clearance racks, etc. If your core wardrobe is already classic/quality this is pretty easy to accomplish. You can also just pay a bit more attention to presentation. For instance, try ironing a crease down the front of your jeans, not wearing socks, trimming your beard, or styling your hair so that it flops over your eyes a bit. Taste varies, but I would guesstimate that something like 80% fit masculine dominant mixed with 20% artsy-boyish-charm-style will appeal to majority, but I have seen stylish men, who might otherwise resemble the Pillsbury Dough Boy or an individual just released from a POW camp where they removed his jawbone, with very attractive females on arm quite frequently.

[BRUTE]

It may seem like women concern themselves with such matters in order to make themselves more attractive to men, but I actually think that most women are trying to make themselves more attractive to themselves, and sometimes even other women.

either this, or they misunderstand what human males want as much as those misunderstand what human females want.

[7Wannabe5]

@BRUTE:

Exactly. At most superficial level this is because many women don't comprehend that men freely spend their money/time on porn NOT fashion magazines, and men don't comprehend why women read bodice-rippers featuring male characters with names like Dirk Broderick who ride large stallions into battle or scream, faint, and throw panties at musical performers.

I really want to offer some insightful advice, but it is like trying to translate into another language that I will never fully master. An interesting study I once read revealed that high IQ is well correlated with high sex drive in females, and another study indicated that high sex drive in females is also well correlated with the practice of reading romance/erotica/bodice-rippers. I was trying to come up with a factor that remained consistent in sexual encounters I enjoyed and didn't subsequently regret, in any or all of my phases of life, and the best I can describe this factor is that the man's attributes and behavior within the context of the situation offered me or allowed me to create or maintain consistent high quality narrative. I know this inherently reeks of chicken/egg, but what I am trying to convey is something about the fact that females are less visual, and more tied into aural/language center in their sexual arousal. I think members of both genders are also subconsciously influenced by smell, but few humans have good ability to attach odor inputs to rational planning center, as one book I am reading* makes clear, this is why the voices on our smartphones don't say things like "turn left when you can no longer smell the forsythia.", but the map your brain is constantly creating to describe the condition of yourself to yourself is inclusive of "smell of forsythia."

One thing that annoys me in some of the writings of male sexuality experts who are younger than me (lol), is their over-reliance on the stated experience of many women that they have difficulty enjoying sex or achieving orgasm in a casual encounter in proving that what females most want is commitment or security. It annoys me because it is pretty clear to me that the inability to achieve orgasm in a casual encounter is usually due to a combination of lack of time towards intimacy combined with lack of communication skills and/or dysfunctional, counter-productive attempt to protect male partner's ego by faking it or just letting it go. Level 0 is thinking that a male partner should take responsibility for your pleasure and orgasm (pre-feminist.) Level 2 is taking responsibility for your own pleasure and orgasm (feminist.) Level 3 is allowing a male partner the great pleasure (lol)of taking responsibility for your pleasure and orgasm (post-feminist.) You can't get to 3 without passing through 2. And, I don't think the fact that I was a somewhat hyper-sexual early bloomer with relatively very few socially-applied inhibitions renders my functioning inherently different than that of my fellow females. It just makes me more likely to feel annoyance when some guy in his 30s writes a book telling me something I already knew 37 years ago when I was 15, and then tries to use that fact to reinforce double standard. By the time I was 15, I had already read 100s of novels written for mature adults and many books on the topic of sexuality, so the 2nd time I actually had sex, I just told my lover what to do to bring me to orgasm. Duh! Like a female needs an ironclad contract for lifelong financial support in order to point to her clit and say "My turn, Baby." How can anybody have the nerve to even begin to proclaim eternal truths of female sexuality in a culture where 50% of men polled can not correctly place the vaginal opening, urethral opening, and clitoris on the map of the female body. Aaaaaargh....!

[Jason]

I have to be honest. I have no clue about all those openings. And actually, it makes penetrating a chick seem like the opening of "Get Smart."

And I'm not here to cause issues. Well, at least on this thread. But let's face it, more things come out of a vagina than a truck stop vending machine.

A vagina to me is like a house. I don't really care about how how the house is built, or how I actually get in the house. But I know once I'm inside, I'm fucking home.

[7Wannabe5]

@Jason:

For educational purposes only:



Come on, guys. It's not exactly rocket science. Just remember CUVA, and you'll at least get a C-plus on the next exam.

Extra Credit: Location of G-Spot on this diagram? No cheating!

[Jason]

Look at that thing. You'd think there would be an allen wrench and directions in multiple languages every time a chick opens her legs.

And nothing personal, but this is why robotic chicks will be the future. If they start quizzing you on their body parts, you just turn the volume off or tell them if they don't STFU, you'll pull out their battery pack.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3478052

[7Wannabe5]

@Jason: lol- I do it cuter in person.

Also, I am definitely not promoting a thoroughly mechanistic approach to such matters. I just get grouchy when I read theories based on surveys that are thrown out into such a social vat of misinformation. I agree that it is often the case that females will seek security and commitment in their sexual/romantic relationships, and likely even much more frequently than males, particularly young males. I do not agree that this is primarily due to the fact that it is "natural" for a woman to not be able to achieve orgasm when having sex with a man she has dated less than 5-7X. Like "the Goddess" punishes women for being slutty by not allowing them to orgasm in such a situation. It is true that anxiety blocks the orgasm center of the brain in females, but it is also true that any sort of excitement increases arousal.

[slowtraveler]

1) fallopian tube
2) ovary
3) bladder
4) pubic bone
5) skene's gland (yummy)
6) g spot
7) skin of clitoris
8) clitoris body
9) urethra
10) labia minora
11) labia majora
12) fimbrae
13) sigmoid colon
14) uterus
15) fornix
16) cervix
17) rectum
18) vagina
19) anus
20) bartholin's gland

@Jason, it get's easy with some study.

[Jason]

I'll just make a crib sheet.

Skin Of Clitoris - sounds like a Sci-fi book

[BRUTE]

I was trying to come up with a factor that remained consistent in sexual encounters I enjoyed and didn't subsequently regret, in any or all of my phases of life, and the best I can describe this factor is that the man's attributes and behavior within the context of the situation offered me or allowed me to create or maintain consistent high quality narrative.

.. females are less visual, and more tied into aural/language center in their sexual arousal...

narrative is definitely a huge factor (<- that's what she said!) in brute's arousal as well. he's not sure if other males are simply unaware of this or if they're different, but from brute's observation, it's the former. stories like "going in drunk and taking home The Hot Blonde (tm)", "nerdy library chick", "shy catholic girl"... that's all stories human males tell themselves to validate who they are. the risk taking party dude who gets laid. the cute nerd who talks his way into bed.

on the one hand brute finds this narrative factor positive, because it really means humans aren't nearly as superficial as they pretend to be. it seems that given enough circumstantial evidence, almost any 2 humans can talk themselves into being aroused by each other. or at least the chance seems quite high.

on the other hand, it's very demystifying. if brute had a penny for every time a human male found a "funny, intelligent" mate, brute would likely be able to exchange them for two bills displaying Harriet Tubman. same the other way around; it's stunning to brute how human females can go out and just select the next best human male that roughly fits their favorite narrative, and fall themselves in love within minutes.

brute has fallen himself in love a few times like that, but at this point it feels like high blood sugar or drinking too much coffee. somewhat predictable, very biological, certainly not mystifying.

[NPV]

I really want to offer some insightful advice, but it is like trying to translate into another language that I will never fully master. An interesting study I once read revealed that high IQ is well correlated with high sex drive in females, and another study indicated that high sex drive in females is also well correlated with the practice of reading romance/erotica/bodice-rippers. I was trying to come up with a factor that remained consistent in sexual encounters I enjoyed and didn't subsequently regret, in any or all of my phases of life, and the best I can describe this factor is that the man's attributes and behavior within the context of the situation offered me or allowed me to create or maintain consistent high quality narrative. I know this inherently reeks of chicken/egg, but what I am trying to convey is something about the fact that females are less visual, and more tied into aural/language center in their sexual arousal. I think members of both genders are also subconsciously influenced by smell, but few humans have good ability to attach odor inputs to rational planning center, as one book I am reading* makes clear, this is why the voices on our smartphones don't say things like "turn left when you can no longer smell the forsythia.", but the map your brain is constantly creating to describe the condition of yourself to yourself is inclusive of "smell of forsythia."

I was trying to come up with a factor that remained consistent in sexual encounters I enjoyed and didn't subsequently regret, in any or all of my phases of life, and the best I can describe this factor is that the man's attributes and behavior within the context of the situation offered me or allowed me to create or maintain consistent high quality narrative.

.. females are less visual, and more tied into aural/language center in their sexual arousal...

narrative is definitely a huge factor (<- that's what she said!) in brute's arousal as well. he's not sure if other males are simply unaware of this or if they're different, but from brute's observation, it's the former. stories like "going in drunk and taking home The Hot Blonde (tm)", "nerdy library chick", "shy catholic girl"... that's all stories human males tell themselves to validate who they are. the risk taking party dude who gets laid. the cute nerd who talks his way into bed.

on the one hand brute finds this narrative factor positive, because it really means humans aren't nearly as superficial as they pretend to be. it seems that given enough circumstantial evidence, almost any 2 humans can talk themselves into being aroused by each other. or at least the chance seems quite high.

on the other hand, it's very demystifying. if brute had a penny for every time a human male found a "funny, intelligent" mate, brute would likely be able to exchange them for two bills displaying Harriet Tubman. same the other way around; it's stunning to brute how human females can go out and just select the next best human male that roughly fits their favorite narrative, and fall themselves in love within minutes.

brute has fallen himself in love a few times like that, but at this point it feels like high blood sugar or drinking too much coffee. somewhat predictable, very biological, certainly not mystifying.

Thank you both. This is actually really insightful and aligns well with my experiences which I have not synthesized that well before.

[Jason]

Really? I thought it was common knowledge to take a shower before talking a chick up.