Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.

All relationships require expenditure of capital, be it time or money, or any other form. Some women require the former and latter in differing degrees, or just one or the other. If you have ERE plans, you would do well to find a woman who is less concerned about material possession and consumption of luxury items. They do exist. My woman, while not immune to the lure of material possessions (nor am I, if I'm being honest), also appreciates other kinds of gestures of kindness which don't revolve around commercially produced luxury consumer goods, and for instance is perfectly satisfied with a gesture of kindness, such as a hand cooked meal, an inexpensive glass of wine on a friday evening, and a couple of tea light candles.

My wife, despite proclaiming herself to be quite frugal, demanded a diamond engagement ring. I tried to argue the rational case against such items. In the end I learned who was boss, and truly, the money meant less to me than her ongoing company. Try not reduce companionship down to a commercial transaction too often, that rarely goes well.

I think you've been dating the wrong woman. There are plenty of ERE woman out there and plenty of woman that want to pull their own weight happily with zero assistance from men. Google "van life" or any such blog that deals with living out of a van - tons of woman living ERE and simply. There is even a Holland woman who dropped everything to move to New Zealand so she could live in the woods with a much older man: This Couple Have Spent 7 Years in the New Zealand Wilderness

I'm sure there are some women who think "The fly in the ointment of ERE is men".

Anyway if you are upfront about your frugal ways the problem will go away, a spendy person isn't likely to be attracted to a tightwad.

Correlation vs. causation. The fly in the ointment of otherwise happy relationships is mismatched expectations. Find someone who shares your values, and life is a lot easier.

I think you dudes are underestimating how many women are into the carefree beachbum guy with a bohemian lifestyle who has all day to work out. Matthew Mcconaughey has made a career playing this character. Now imagine your girl's pleasant surprise when she finds out you're not actually a futureless loser, but an uber responsible provider who knows how to fix her bike, car, pc, toilet, and can build her some furniture.

I initially thought something similar.

If you look around, a lot of the men around here are happily coupled.

I spend money with girls I like but not huge. Gas or food or firewood cost money but every girl understands that I value frugality, minimalism, health, honesty, and the environment. They are happy when I bring food they like that I bought at Costco or TJs. Not upset because I didn't spend more money to buy it at a restaurant. If a girl complains about frugality or litters, she's out, there's a value mismatch.

In my experience paying attention and applying some thoughtfulness is more important than money to woo a girl.

Where are you meeting women?
I've met mine in college classes, hippy events/workshops/groups, through friends, etc. Basically, things I already do and places where I wouldn't likely find someone who values materialism as much. If no matter where you go, you keep finding materialistic girls, it's not anyone but you. It means you are filtering for these girls as the ones you find attractive.

There are women out there who are ERE friendly. Don't, however, expect fancy hairstyles, manicures and a closet full of clothes (goes back to expectations, eh?)

I personally don't like men paying for a whole lot until I'm sure I like them. And not even then, because I don't want to setup a relationship where spending loads of money is part of it. A coffee, sure, perhaps happy hour someplace. Cheap morning cinema. Not much else.

More importantly, I am my own person and want to keep it that way. I don't think I'll EVER get married again because I'm about four months from hitting my number, and starting a new career for fun. I don't want to make a mistake with a money pit again (yes, men can be money pits too).

Learn some new skills for wooing. Respect and listening are far more valuable in that regard than a fancy dinner out. At least to me.

Dates I would enjoy (in case this would be helpful):

Walking someplace nice (local neighborhood park is fine), hiking, coffee (yes, money, but not much), a picnic, borrowing a friends boat, free museum (most have free days), volunteering somewhere (for people), visiting a free zoo, volunteering at a local pet shelter, going to a free lecture at the local university, attending a reading at a book store, open mic night (with a drink at home before walking there instead of the high priced drinks in the bar), homemade dinner... the only thing limiting you on this is your imagination.

I'd also point out that it's important to think of the big picture.

If you only think of dating as an extra expense to your current personal single-life system, then yes it may be a net negative to your financial ERE process. But IMHO that's a very narrow-minded approach.

If you think of a relationship in terms of securing a long-term partner that shares your goals, then it's a huge benefit to ERE. Doubling your income while splitting chores and expenses can improve your financial situation quite a bit.

Healthy relationships are about a lot more than fleeting companionship between two independent individuals.

A cheap girl you have to listen to or a materialistic one you can ignore?

That's a tough one.

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.]

Oh.... <eye roll> Jacob has a good woman and I think they met when he was living on less than $7k a year and eating lentils all the time.

I am a woman, I'm all about semi ERE--too old to retire extremely early these days--and DBF is also frugal and we touch each other.

Where are you meeting people? How are you putting ERE "out there?" Why are you sure that your ERE aspirations are your only barrier to <ahem> entry?

What kind of women are you attracted to? The kind of woman who goes to Supercuts rather than expensive salons? The kind of woman who's happy with fashion from a couple years ago?

I would suggest places to meet women with similar ERE values--or those willing to tolerate yours--might be thrift stores, estate sales, Home Depot DIY classes, your local environmental activist group. Start a meetup for voluntary simplicity or ERE in your town. Chances are the chick sipping cosmos at the bar wearing manolos is not going to be an ERE type. (Yeah, I guess that "Sex and the City" reference is dated now, but what can I say? I'm too cheap for cable to know what's cool now).

Favorite dates with DBF when we first started going out: long lingering coffee dates, hours spent browsing our favorite bookstore, canoe trip and I packed a picnic, bike rides in the park, racquetball at my gym. We've always tended to split entrees when we go out. He recently gave me a necklace and has told me several times it was on sale (I think he was embarrassed by a momentary relative extravagance).

When I was in college I was into cars and so was a guy I liked. I drove a '65 Mustang and he drove a '56 Belaire. I knew it was love when he called me up and said "let's do something this weekend." Like what? I asked. "I was thinking we could wash our cars." Of course I found out later that he was broke, but it was a great chance to hang out, plus he enjoyed the wet tshirt I'm sure.

There is a thread for singles searching on a permaculture site I frequent, but it doesn't seem to be very successful. The reason being that once anybody, male or female, is settled on to their own land, they don't want to (literally!) pull up roots to partner with somebody else. I think there is a similar problem with ERE people hooking up with other ERE people. So, I think maybe something more like shared values, complementary goals might be the formula.

Cheap women vary too. I talk a lot sometimes, but I don't really need a guy with great empathetic listening skills. I was once head over heels for a man who described his thoughts on our first date as "The words just kept coming, but I kept my focus on the lips.", and I thought that was pretty funny. Some of my best dates ever cost the man very little money, but combined consideration, creativity and skill. I especially like it when a man takes me on any kind of adventure. Some men have the knack of making a trip to the grocery store seem like an adventure. Or you can create a scene with attention to the sensual. I remember being on the back of a motorcycle on a hot summer morning in the city, cool jazz on the radio, heading out to the countryside, sharing an ice cream cone. 1920s chanteuse singing ditty in the background, while I am pinned down hard one more time, then rewarded with steak and coffee. Random road trip hitting thrift stores off of rural highway, talking trash until we are both so horny we fuck on the side of the road with only the open passenger door for cover. That kind of thing. Different females. Different high maintenance demands.

FrugalFred wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

FrugalFred can speak for himself.

EdithKeeler wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 pm

eating lentils all the time.

People who think ERE is only possible by eat lentils are the same people that think the only piece of furniture you can have sex on is a bed.

fiby41 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:48 pm

EdithKeeler wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 pm

eating lentils all the time.

People who think ERE is only possible by eat lentils are the same people that think the only piece of furniture you can have sex on is a bed.

Wait... you need furniture to have sex?

I wish I could get to the point of discriminating based on monetary habits. I'm stuck at the travel/tourism and dogs phase. Good on you for those who want to do / have as much of those things as possible -- but they aren't what I want my life to be about. The lack of "strategy diversification" when it comes to interests in my area has depressed me to the point I don't even bother to date anymore. I have lots of fun doing my own hobbies, and as long as I avoid dwelling on the topic of eternal bachelorhood, I can deal mostly. That skin hunger though, if there is anything I crave these days, it is that.

FrugalFred wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.

I'll try to make this constructive, but there are some hard truths here.

1. A male that lives in a box and plays on the internet all day won't attract many women, ere or not.
2. Viewing women as "the fly in the ointment" won't attract many women, ere or not.
3. Starting passive-aggressive forum topics like this one shows that you have problems with social awareness...which won't attract many women, ere or not.

The problem isn't women, or ere. The problem is your views and actions.

If you woo her with money, don't marry!

Your threads suggest you are a 30 year old, attractive, active, college educated, white collar professional, with a 90% savings rate, on track to own his home.

You've got selling points. It's a constraint optimization search problem. Maybe you spend the money but moderate the frequency. Maybe you change your standard. Maybe you figure out how to imitate the pattern your target audience is watching for, but don't bother with the substance to support it.

IMO time is the bigger challenge. Devote 40 hours a week to the search, I bet you have all sorts of luck.

@7wb5

All your situations assume vehicle ownership - I don't think this is the level of frugality the op is talking about.