The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
FrugalFred
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The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by FrugalFred » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.

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vexed87
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by vexed87 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:13 am

All relationships require expenditure of capital, be it time or money, or any other form. Some women require the former and latter in differing degrees, or just one or the other. If you have ERE plans, you would do well to find a woman who is less concerned about material possession and consumption of luxury items. They do exist. My woman, while not immune to the lure of material possessions (nor am I, if I'm being honest), also appreciates other kinds of gestures of kindness which don't revolve around commercially produced luxury consumer goods, and for instance is perfectly satisfied with a gesture of kindness, such as a hand cooked meal, an inexpensive glass of wine on a friday evening, and a couple of tea light candles.

My wife, despite proclaiming herself to be quite frugal, demanded a diamond engagement ring. I tried to argue the rational case against such items. In the end I learned who was boss, and truly, the money meant less to me than her ongoing company. Try not reduce companionship down to a commercial transaction too often, that rarely goes well. ;)
Last edited by vexed87 on Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Campitor
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Campitor » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:14 am

I think you've been dating the wrong woman. There are plenty of ERE woman out there and plenty of woman that want to pull their own weight happily with zero assistance from men. Google "van life" or any such blog that deals with living out of a van - tons of woman living ERE and simply. There is even a Holland woman who dropped everything to move to New Zealand so she could live in the woods with a much older man: This Couple Have Spent 7 Years in the New Zealand Wilderness

ducknalddon
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by ducknalddon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:02 am

I'm sure there are some women who think "The fly in the ointment of ERE is men".

Anyway if you are upfront about your frugal ways the problem will go away, a spendy person isn't likely to be attracted to a tightwad.

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Tyler9000
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Tyler9000 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:03 am

Correlation vs. causation. The fly in the ointment of otherwise happy relationships is mismatched expectations. Find someone who shares your values, and life is a lot easier.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by ThisDinosaur » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:39 am

I think you dudes are underestimating how many women are into the carefree beachbum guy with a bohemian lifestyle who has all day to work out. Matthew Mcconaughey has made a career playing this character. Now imagine your girl's pleasant surprise when she finds out you're not actually a futureless loser, but an uber responsible provider who knows how to fix her bike, car, pc, toilet, and can build her some furniture.

slowtraveler
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by slowtraveler » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:52 am

I initially thought something similar.

If you look around, a lot of the men around here are happily coupled.

I spend money with girls I like but not huge. Gas or food or firewood cost money but every girl understands that I value frugality, minimalism, health, honesty, and the environment. They are happy when I bring food they like that I bought at Costco or TJs. Not upset because I didn't spend more money to buy it at a restaurant. If a girl complains about frugality or litters, she's out, there's a value mismatch.

In my experience paying attention and applying some thoughtfulness is more important than money to woo a girl.

Where are you meeting women?
I've met mine in college classes, hippy events/workshops/groups, through friends, etc. Basically, things I already do and places where I wouldn't likely find someone who values materialism as much. If no matter where you go, you keep finding materialistic girls, it's not anyone but you. It means you are filtering for these girls as the ones you find attractive.

CS
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by CS » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:10 pm

There are women out there who are ERE friendly. Don't, however, expect fancy hairstyles, manicures and a closet full of clothes (goes back to expectations, eh?)

I personally don't like men paying for a whole lot until I'm sure I like them. And not even then, because I don't want to setup a relationship where spending loads of money is part of it. A coffee, sure, perhaps happy hour someplace. Cheap morning cinema. Not much else.

More importantly, I am my own person and want to keep it that way. I don't think I'll EVER get married again because I'm about four months from hitting my number, and starting a new career for fun. I don't want to make a mistake with a money pit again (yes, men can be money pits too).

Learn some new skills for wooing. Respect and listening are far more valuable in that regard than a fancy dinner out. At least to me.

Dates I would enjoy (in case this would be helpful):

Walking someplace nice (local neighborhood park is fine), hiking, coffee (yes, money, but not much), a picnic, borrowing a friends boat, free museum (most have free days), volunteering somewhere (for people), visiting a free zoo, volunteering at a local pet shelter, going to a free lecture at the local university, attending a reading at a book store, open mic night (with a drink at home before walking there instead of the high priced drinks in the bar), homemade dinner... the only thing limiting you on this is your imagination.
Last edited by CS on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rfgh
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by rfgh » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:17 pm


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Tyler9000
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Tyler9000 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 pm

I'd also point out that it's important to think of the big picture.

If you only think of dating as an extra expense to your current personal single-life system, then yes it may be a net negative to your financial ERE process. But IMHO that's a very narrow-minded approach.

If you think of a relationship in terms of securing a long-term partner that shares your goals, then it's a huge benefit to ERE. Doubling your income while splitting chores and expenses can improve your financial situation quite a bit.

Healthy relationships are about a lot more than fleeting companionship between two independent individuals.

Jason
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Jason » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:58 pm

A cheap girl you have to listen to or a materialistic one you can ignore?

That's a tough one.

EdithKeeler
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 pm

Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.]
Oh.... <eye roll> Jacob has a good woman and I think they met when he was living on less than $7k a year and eating lentils all the time. 😁

I am a woman, I'm all about semi ERE--too old to retire extremely early these days--and DBF is also frugal and we touch each other.

Where are you meeting people? How are you putting ERE "out there?" Why are you sure that your ERE aspirations are your only barrier to <ahem> entry?

What kind of women are you attracted to? The kind of woman who goes to Supercuts rather than expensive salons? The kind of woman who's happy with fashion from a couple years ago?

I would suggest places to meet women with similar ERE values--or those willing to tolerate yours--might be thrift stores, estate sales, Home Depot DIY classes, your local environmental activist group. Start a meetup for voluntary simplicity or ERE in your town. Chances are the chick sipping cosmos at the bar wearing manolos is not going to be an ERE type. (Yeah, I guess that "Sex and the City" reference is dated now, but what can I say? I'm too cheap for cable to know what's cool now).

Favorite dates with DBF when we first started going out: long lingering coffee dates, hours spent browsing our favorite bookstore, canoe trip and I packed a picnic, bike rides in the park, racquetball at my gym. We've always tended to split entrees when we go out. He recently gave me a necklace and has told me several times it was on sale (I think he was embarrassed by a momentary relative extravagance).

When I was in college I was into cars and so was a guy I liked. I drove a '65 Mustang and he drove a '56 Belaire. I knew it was love when he called me up and said "let's do something this weekend." Like what? I asked. "I was thinking we could wash our cars." Of course I found out later that he was broke, but it was a great chance to hang out, plus he enjoyed the wet tshirt I'm sure.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:44 pm

There is a thread for singles searching on a permaculture site I frequent, but it doesn't seem to be very successful. The reason being that once anybody, male or female, is settled on to their own land, they don't want to (literally!) pull up roots to partner with somebody else. I think there is a similar problem with ERE people hooking up with other ERE people. So, I think maybe something more like shared values, complementary goals might be the formula.

Cheap women vary too. I talk a lot sometimes, but I don't really need a guy with great empathetic listening skills. I was once head over heels for a man who described his thoughts on our first date as "The words just kept coming, but I kept my focus on the lips.", and I thought that was pretty funny. Some of my best dates ever cost the man very little money, but combined consideration, creativity and skill. I especially like it when a man takes me on any kind of adventure. Some men have the knack of making a trip to the grocery store seem like an adventure. Or you can create a scene with attention to the sensual. I remember being on the back of a motorcycle on a hot summer morning in the city, cool jazz on the radio, heading out to the countryside, sharing an ice cream cone. 1920s chanteuse singing ditty in the background, while I am pinned down hard one more time, then rewarded with steak and coffee. Random road trip hitting thrift stores off of rural highway, talking trash until we are both so horny we fuck on the side of the road with only the open passenger door for cover. That kind of thing. Different females. Different high maintenance demands.

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BRUTE
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by BRUTE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:34 pm

FrugalFred wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am
Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.
FrugalFred can speak for himself.

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fiby41
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by fiby41 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:48 pm

EdithKeeler wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 pm
eating lentils all the time. 😁
People who think ERE is only possible by eat lentils are the same people that think the only piece of furniture you can have sex on is a bed.

George the original one
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by George the original one » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:53 am

fiby41 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:48 pm
EdithKeeler wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 pm
eating lentils all the time. 😁
People who think ERE is only possible by eat lentils are the same people that think the only piece of furniture you can have sex on is a bed.
Wait... you need furniture to have sex?

slsdly
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by slsdly » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:52 am

I wish I could get to the point of discriminating based on monetary habits. I'm stuck at the travel/tourism and dogs phase. Good on you for those who want to do / have as much of those things as possible -- but they aren't what I want my life to be about. The lack of "strategy diversification" when it comes to interests in my area has depressed me to the point I don't even bother to date anymore. I have lots of fun doing my own hobbies, and as long as I avoid dwelling on the topic of eternal bachelorhood, I can deal mostly. That skin hunger though, if there is anything I crave these days, it is that.

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plantingourpennies
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by plantingourpennies » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:36 am

FrugalFred wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am
Let's be frank: wooing and maintaining women is insanely expensive for most men. It's also our main motivator in life.

I'd be perfectly content living in a box and playing on the internet all day... but I need to be touched.
I'll try to make this constructive, but there are some hard truths here.

1. A male that lives in a box and plays on the internet all day won't attract many women, ere or not.
2. Viewing women as "the fly in the ointment" won't attract many women, ere or not.
3. Starting passive-aggressive forum topics like this one shows that you have problems with social awareness...which won't attract many women, ere or not.

The problem isn't women, or ere. The problem is your views and actions.

Scott 2
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Scott 2 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am

If you woo her with money, don't marry!

Your threads suggest you are a 30 year old, attractive, active, college educated, white collar professional, with a 90% savings rate, on track to own his home.

You've got selling points. It's a constraint optimization search problem. Maybe you spend the money but moderate the frequency. Maybe you change your standard. Maybe you figure out how to imitate the pattern your target audience is watching for, but don't bother with the substance to support it.

IMO time is the bigger challenge. Devote 40 hours a week to the search, I bet you have all sorts of luck.

ffj
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by ffj » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:52 am

+1 to what planting has said above. If you don't have money or want to spend what you have on typical dating activities, then you are going to have to make the difference up in personality. Women should want to be around you regardless if you have any money to spend. The good news is that you don't have to be good-looking (saved me) to attract the opposite sex, but you have to be fun to be around. Running around with a chip on your shoulder kills any kind of spontaneity, sort of like a clingy woman desperate to find a partner, and is a definite turn-off.

Good luck and work on yourself before you write off billions of women.

James_0011
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by James_0011 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:03 am

@7wb5

All your situations assume vehicle ownership - I don't think this is the level of frugality the op is talking about.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:59 am

@James_0011:

Well, since I don't own a vehicle myself, it generally ends up that I date men who do own vehicles, or somebody who lives within walking/biking distance. That's kind of what I mean about serious frugality limiting access to serious frugality. Kind of like being introverted limits ability to attract another introvert. However, I must admit, I am kind of spoiled, so I even let my BF pay $17 for my train ticket when he doesn't want to drive to come get me for the weekend. Also, I really do not enjoy driving myself, didn't even get my license until I was 32, so I am always happier when somebody else is at the wheel.

That said, I have greatly enjoyed many dates that involved hiking or biking or boating adventure, and when I did own a car, I would usually have no problem with transporting myself to dating site. The reason why "adventure" is good theme for a date is that it seems more like something you would only do with a man. I have frequently gone on adventures with my sisters and/or female friends, but that usually has a completely different sort of vibe. More like an episode of "I Love Lucy."

+1 to what ffj said. I happenstance just wrote a post on similar theme on other thread.

Jason
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Jason » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:14 am

(1) What about your local soup kitchen? Go in as a volunteer and see if you like anything. Down on your luck chicks can be hot and you have to think their expectations with regard to financial matters are already kind of low. An extra packet of saltines probably get you a hand job.

(2) There is also prison women. There are plenty of pen pal sites. Just note why the chick is in there. Profiles usually include the crime committed. I would suggest staying away from the violent felons and look at those that are intelligent but just took a wrong turn i.e. check kiting, corporate embezzlement, wire fraud et al. Visitation restrictions are a built in excuse for not seeing them and you don't have to accept incoming calls.

(3) The sex doll industry has come a long way from the days of just inflating the chick like a pool floatation. You have to think robotic chicks are the future. They look life like and I think you can get one for around a grand. I'm not sure about maintenance and repairs but it has to be less than a non-robotic chick.

suomalainen
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by suomalainen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:57 pm

@Jason, ha ha ha ba ha ha ha ha. I don't actually often LOL when reading internet comments, but shit, I LOL:ed (LedOL?) for that one.

Jason
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Re: The fly in the ointment of ERE is women

Post by Jason » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:27 am

The proliferation of robotic chicks is going to be interesting because they are going to become more and more lifelike as all those smart nerdy guys in high school who couldn't get laid are going to go at the technology with a vengeance.

Like all things, it will have to become socially acceptable. Like homosexuality or transgender. At that point, you will see guys in their robotic cars driving their robotic girlfriends to and fro. Guys will leave their non-robotic girlfriends for robotic girlfriends. Eventually they will want legal status.

I don't know if it will be in my lifetime, but these things are going to raise moral and ethical issues. There are guys right now, mercilessly banging the shit out of these things. They are going to start clubs, societies, parties, dances, orgies, swingers clubs. You will see midget robotic chicks, siamese twin robotic chicks, fat robotic chicks, big ass robotic chicks, Marilyn Monroe robotic chicks, the younger version of their dead wife robotic chicks. Mormons will have multiple robotic chicks. Donald Trump will have the best robotic chicks. Celebrity endorsed robotic chicks. Divorces proceedings will be filed due to fucking robotic chicks. You will have robotic chick strip clubs. You will have robotic chick porn. You will have real chicks against robotic chick movements. Customized robotic chicks. That chick who I saw in the you tube video who could crush a watermelon between her thighs will have a robotic chick version of herself. Well, hopefully.

I'm serious. Its going to get real.

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