Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

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Zeran
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:34 pm

Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Zeran »

Thought this might be interesting to listen to for folks here
I am very close to the financial independence. I have listened to some podcasts you have on the topic, but I still have some doubts. I know that my parents will not understand why I am not getting up every morning to go to the office. I know that my friends will ask about my next professional challenges and why I decided to quit. I cannot mention the financial independence because it will generate envy, and that is not a comfortable situation. Is lying the only solution? Or breaking up with your parents, brothers and friends?
http://www.thevoluntarylife.com/2017/07 ... -loan.html

Does anyone else have the same fear or concerns from about reaching financial independence? I can see how a person quitting a job would be a big thing in a family group and not unusual for family members to put pressure on that person to keep in work.

wood
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by wood »

I'm sure it will be challenging, but I think this is something you can control to a certain degree. I've decided not to reveal much about my financial situation at all, so my family won't really notice whether I'm FI or not. Friends might notice, but I will try not to appear different in front of them. Hopefully I will have time for new friends as well.

Social media might play a role. I will most likely avoid it completely. Some people (over)share when it comes to talking about their own life. If you are in that category it can be a good idea to reconsider how you wish to appear in front of others. The downside of this is that you won't get to share your enthusiasm about this aspect of your life. This feels like a sacrifice to me, because I never mind sharing personal stuff with friends/family/partners. Its easy for me to say things exactly as they are. But this is a small sacrifice in the bigger picture, isn't it?

Then there's the usual question on what to say when people ask what you occupy your time with. It can be smart to translate your status into a job title instead of saying that you sleep all day because you're FI. Don't reveal details. The only way your parents know you're not showing up at an office every morning is because you are letting them know. I don't think this is the same as lying. Its presenting things in a way so that others will understand, just like answering a 5 year old on how to make babies.

Did
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Did »

Other threads on this somewhere...... Good problem to have IMO!

cmonkey
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by cmonkey »

This is something that's brought up a lot and it's more difficult to deal with than many think, myself included. As much as we want to blare the trumpets and announce our accomplishment to everyone, the best advice is definitely to conceal the situation as much as possible from people who would give you grief. Definitely engage those that would understand and their support will help deal with those who don't understand.

I enjoyed his podcast. It's pretty timely as I might be on the verge of a major life change (new job) that will see me at home 100% of the time with a significantly different daily schedule. People around me will definitely notice and wonder if I'm even working anymore, the neighbors mostly, but also family when they visit. Let them wonder. :)

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Jean
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Jean »

I'm very open about it, and I mostly get positive reactions.
But its like a mission for me to let people know that they can work much less and have a nice life.

frugalere
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by frugalere »

My wife and I are not telling anyone. We don't see my family too much and wife's family is overseas. As for friends, I'm not super close to people as friends. (I'm more than happy with my wife and I am a loner type and I do like to do my own things and I'm never bored).

We don't have a lot of money, but a pension coming soon and Social Security not too far off. We will sell the house and move to wife's house.

Anyway, people will get upset and jealous and nosy and whatever. I mean, why tell people anything about your finances? What does it achieve? Nothing. Why point it out? What you do expect or want to hear from people after you tell them? It's prideful to tell people. No good can come of it.

Tyler9000
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Tyler9000 »

Yes, this is an issue. But in my experience the root cause very often misdiagnosed by the retiree. The conflict is most easily caused a lack of emotional intelligence on the part of the retiree combined with understandable enthusiasm to share an exciting accomplishment. It's easy to put yourself in a situation where you come across as bragging, and it's particularly damaging when you're simultaneously oblivious to the financial or work struggles of the person you're talking to.

In three years of full/semi retirement, the topic of my personal finance situation beyond a cursory "what do you do?" from someone I just met (to which I simply reply that I'm a part-time/freelance engineer and nobody bats an eye) has come up rarely enough even with family and coworkers that I can count it on two hands. I try to stay gracious and modest while dodging most direct questions, and the most I usually offer when pressed is that we saved up over the years, have had to accept some financial tradeoffs, and are thankful for the relatively rare opportunity to scale back on work. The only times it has been awkward has been when I brought the topic up myself and shared too much, and I quickly learned to not do that. The best way to make sure that other people do not make a big deal out of it is to simply not make a big deal out of it yourself.

That said, I acknowledge that certain aggressive people can find ways to latch on to anything to make you miserable. I have one person in my extended family like that, and I avoid her altogether (she knows nothing of my situation and I won't share). I do empathize with EREers who have people like that in their orbits they can't similarly avoid. But generally speaking, those people are rare and they won't find you if you're not actively advertising your situation. The cool thing about ERE is that a lack of 9-5 work is a lot less conspicuous than the material wealth signals most people are on the lookout for.

TopHatFox
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by TopHatFox »

Eh, I think it'll be fine. Don't mention it unless if you're asked.

If you are, mention your hobby as a job. I'm a photgrapher, writer, training athlete, sailor, whatever. If they ask how it works, say you really enjoy activities that don't cost much. In fact, don't ever talk about costs directly. Just say the simple activity and the benefit. For example, cycling for exercise, hiking for fresh air, conversations for community, etc. if they prod, say you also saved up some money from your time as a *conventional job here.*

Not having to do 9-6 is worth envying. That said, if they get mad or jealous, fuck 'em. World isn't fair. Capitalist v. Indebted. Privileged v. Disadvantaged. Disciplined v. Not. Colored v. White. Man v. Woman. Blah blah. Oh, and delete all social media and get your net security up.

Welcome to stealth wealth... it seems I care less and less about others' opinions or notoriety the older I get.

-------

Fun facts: if you ever share something uncommon, immediately follow it up by validating whatever the person does. E.g. A WFPB diet means I can make a mean stir-fry, and you can eat whatever you want. Those fries look delicious! Or, thank you for asking, I really enjoy riding my bike to work. It's great exercise. That new car you got is super stylish btw!

It helps people from judging themselves against you if you show (and hopefully do) accept them as they are. And you should, because none of this shit matters anyway. Remember not to mention anything unconventional directly unless if asked. : )

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Laura Ingalls »

We moved to a new place and both still have some paid employment in our lives. Easy to be stealthy. The response I have gotten from parents and siblings has been mixed. My in laws have been super cool despite not being retired themselves. My mom doesn't get that anyone can retire without social security and pension income that meets or exceeds their expenses :( . I guess her 7 figure portfolio is just a security blanket. We each have a sibling that is cool and we each have one that is jealous. My DH's jealous sibling is just global jealous. My jealous sibling is just dumbfounded that we could save that much despite knowing me since birth and DH for 20 years. He would like to retire at 50. He is currently 46. I don't think he lives paycheck to paycheck but I suspect he is less than 10% of the total he needs and he knows it.

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Sclass
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by Sclass »

Long Sclass post...feel free to step out for popcorn :D

I've had a lot of relationships fail because of this. For me I would say I'm surrounded by "high achievers " and they have big egos. Jealousy is a very real thing. Some have visibly lost control and started shrieking at me in public "no fair!" Rather than stick around and learn details they run off for ego preservation.

The most extreme case are my siblings. PhD professionals. Always told me I was a loser. Ten years older than me. Them 58 me 48. They were very upset to hear I walked out of my job without a new position at 43. They'd call regularly checking to see if I had interviews lined up. Then I'd use my crap emotional intelligence and say I'm retired over and over till they stopped offering career advice.

I felt like the character Gal in Sexy Beast being badgered by Ben Kingsley.
(Edit found this) https://youtu.be/izuGqIi_-vc

Oddly last night my SO said a lot of what is happening between my siblings and the care of my mom has to do with them feeling better about my retirement. They just dumped the job on me. The most painful part is they just don't care what is happening to me. Or that they do in a sadistic way.

My sibs are hyper competitive people. They will actually do really stupid things to show they are better than you with no regard to actually performing better. One example is taking joy in a successful friend or relative's terminal illness. I am dead serious. I've seen a little smile in the corner of their mouths when they talk about an old classmate (a dot com millionaire) who got in a car crash and lost his ability to walk. Or the joy I heard in my brothers voice as he asked me details about the nature of my heart condition - he didn't even know he was getting turned on by the whole thing but I saw him smiling. Somehow hearing an old successful friend is struggling with brain cancer gives them happiness. "See sclass money isn't everything!" :D sick bastards don't even see themselves cracking subtle smiles in their eyes.

Sick bastards. They were made for each other. When my sister won an essay contest at age fourteen my brother tripped her as she paraded around the house with her trophy. She got pretty banged up on the stairs. I never understood this but it seems there are quite a few people out there like this. You find more among those with advanced degrees.

Anyhow SO said not only are my siblings not helping with mom, they are probably taking some joy in my suffering. They can justify their careers by saying "look at sclass, retirement isn't looking so good now." Seriously they are that twisted and jealous. I'm not there to verify it but I'm sure envy has a big contribution towards their behavior.

I find this behavior concentrated in the friends and relatives I call "achievers" motivated students, competitive, high test scores but kinda dumb in the big picture thinking. You know the types who were more interested in the distribution of test scores on the final rather than the content of the lectures.

My other class of friends I call the "junkyard millionaires", no university education, small business people and rich, don't get this way. They will ask me how I raised enough money to generate sufficient passive income and if they should be looking into some of my vehicles as they wind down their businesses. Typical junkyard millionaire says, "Sclass, explain it one more time but really slow for me like I'm really dumb. What kind of downside risk are we looking at?"

It seems a lot to do with the audience.

Last story, my eighty year old aunt. She has always been upset about my apparent ability to survive without working. She has visibly lost her composure about it. Upset her sons cannot compete with me. I had dinner with her in June and she told me something in her clouded monotone with glazed eyes,

"There was this little girl I knew when I was eight. She lived in a bigger house than mine. She had all the nice (cannot remember brand) XYZ Dolls neatly lined up on her shelf. The complete set. I hated her. I just wanted to beat her up."

Whoa. Note to self. This woman badgered me from the moment I retired till now. She would rant "you're not rich how come you get to do this?" Well now I know. It's comes deep from within.

That being said I don't tell people how I survive anymore. I say consulting engineer too. Envy is just too big a part of human nature. Guys killed brothers over a few extra goats back in the day. Be careful what you wish for.

SavingWithBabies
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Re: Podcast: Worry of facing envy from friends family after reaching FI

Post by SavingWithBabies »

For me, this is solved by wanting to continue working on bootstrapping businesses. At least I think it will be. There is a chance I'll get so burned out that I'll just want to close up shop and walk away and do something that will not so easily mask my FI. I'll follow @Sclasses's example then and claim to be a consulting software developer. My family is so different that I can't imagine these horrible people but I don't doubt they exist so it seems safe to keep FI out of sight and let people see what they want to see.

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