System Boundaries and Inheritance

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
IlliniDave
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by IlliniDave » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:18 am

Yikes, this one seems to have gone off the rails ...

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:02 am

@BRUTE: How provocative. I like it!

Two notes. The first would be that my ridiculously simplified weak-Jungian model includes 4 quadrants defined by Juvenile/Adult, Masculine/Feminine, and some of the exercises you listed would appear to me to be more in alignment with adult masculine rather than juvenile masculine energy since Power would be associated with the Adult Masculine Quadrant whereas Energy/Spark/Initiative would be more associated with the Juvenile Masculine Quadrant.

Second note (which will likely thrust me once more into the realm of TMI, but today I do not care because my face is half melted, and I am therefore just in old crone scratching out her memoirs mode.) My mother suffers from bi-polar disease. I suffer from cyclothymia with more manic than depressive cycling, and one of my most pronounced symptoms is hyper-sexuality. Therefore, although there is more than a bit of not-directly-comparable apples-to-oranges, it is the case that my sex drive is higher than that of many or most men, so I do (or did-sigh) possess a lot of juvenile-masculine energy for a female. Or to put the matter in even more blunt terms, it has been my lifelong experience that it is more likely that I will be the partner who will wake up with a "raging hard-on." even though my sexuality, like that of most other females, is not as visually-linked, rigidly channeled, or as likely to cause me to behave in an assertive manner as that of my male peers. IOW, spark and powder a plenty, but no sight, barrel or bullet.

So:

1) check
2) too easy for me. never have to breath hard to accomplish. out of condition now, but previously trained to release on command.
3) definitely not my preference, but have done while camping etc.
4) ?
5) never, but I have almost fallen asleep while riding on such a vehicle, resting against some wide leather-coated back.
6) have attempted, start having vivid dreams about cookies around Day 21
7) ?
8) have considered buying device that would make this possible because it would come in handy hiking/camping. visual cortex not strongly directly linked to sexuality and passive photographs will not often serve as triggering mechanism. watching video of guy with decent guns playing guitar might be closest approximation since it would at least show active musculature and add the aural component. I used to do this sometimes, but male musicians are now like some terrible party drink I have vomited up too often.
9) extremely unlikely, vast room for improvement. I do occasionally get the urge to attempt to do something like literally (as opposed to psychologically) flip a guy who might be around 6'3" and 220 lbs. of pretty solid muscle. What actually happens when I make such an attempt is something like the sound of a tree falling in a forest where nobody can hear it.
10) Never even vaguely considered. I am not even super-catty competitive with other females due to learning early on to co-operate or divide and conquer with sisters. IOW, I sometimes do that instant ranking of my attractiveness vs. other females in the room thing, but then I immediately imagine that we are all competing in different categories/ranks. I generally signal friendly/submissive except when I am paid to teach young hooligans. This one might be amusing/enlightening to attempt, but just the thought of living like that forever exhausts me. Zero-percent interest in taking on that role/responsibility.

George the original one
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by George the original one » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:51 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:02 am
I suffer from cyclothymia with more manic than depressive cycling, and one of my most pronounced symptoms is hyper-sexuality.
I've known a couple women like that <relishes memories>.

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:28 pm

@GTOO: Yeah, it used to be fun to be me too.

enigmaT120
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by enigmaT120 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:42 am

George the original one wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:51 am
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:02 am
I suffer from cyclothymia with more manic than depressive cycling, and one of my most pronounced symptoms is hyper-sexuality.
I've known a couple women like that <relishes memories>.
I haven't, dammit.

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:44 pm

My children gave me money today. Granted, this was to pay me back for paying the joint phone bill for a number of years, but...I tried to wave it away, and they insisted, and my DS28 acted insulted and reminded me about his recent promotion. I am losing my frame of reference. No more "babies", and more than one affluent old man who wants to bundle me up and take me to dinner. Like I'm walking up the stairs, but the world is on the escalator.

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BRUTE
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by BRUTE » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:09 pm

and this is bad because..

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Dragline
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by Dragline » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:45 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:44 pm
My children gave me money today. Granted, this was to pay me back for paying the joint phone bill for a number of years, but...I tried to wave it away, and they insisted, and my DS28 acted insulted and reminded me about his recent promotion. I am losing my frame of reference. No more "babies", and more than one affluent old man who wants to bundle me up and take me to dinner. Like I'm walking up the stairs, but the world is on the escalator.
Well, I guess they love you. Learn to accept it in whatever form it takes. Perhaps they have jolted you back out of your transactional mindset that you seem to apply to those closest to you.

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:25 am

Dragline said: Perhaps they have jolted you back out of your transactional mindset that you seem to apply to those closest to you.
No, it's not that. I am still interested in economics, and I know I am lovable in spite of my fascination with the dismal ;) I think it is because I took on some level of maternal care for my youngest sister at an early age, because after she was born my mother went completely out-to-lunch, so not having any level of practical responsibility for anybody younger than me is something I have never experienced. IOW, it's not some cold to warm transform (which you never would have suggested if you had ever met me IRL), more like a big to little transform. I have almost always framed my projects with my 3 younger sisters or my 2 children in my considerations or on my team, with my father as my primary backer until he died in 2001. My ex-husband, never anybody's concept of a rock, went completely AWOL(quit his job, had a nervous breakdown for which he was hospitalized, and disappeared for a number of months) after we separated in 2007, so then it was all on me.

My son also asked about whether I had made arrangements with my sisters to rent some lakeside cottages my father always rented in the summer, implying that he would be willing and able to throw into the pot this year. One thing most men always want from women, whether it is their mother, their wife, their sisters or their daughters, is for them to recreate enjoyable scenes from their childhood (while they watch football.) Maybe I am not going to be able to do a good job of explaining, but part of the reason why it might seem like I engage in cold analysis in relationship to the men I date is because they are not my family, and they will never be my family, because I will never have any children with them. They are satellite characters, for entertainment or secondary contributory purposes only. I am lacking the gene that would allow me to fully engage in sterile pair-bond, although I do sometimes fall infatuated or think of my boyfriends as being like poor old gray-muzzled dogs with puppy-dog eyes. IOW, I am quite sentimental, and I am quite sexual, but I am not very romantic, even though it is my observation that I almost always have a husband, lover, or boyfriend.

Anyways, the part of this which is relevant to this thread and forum is that I have always had a purpose for my frugality that was not just future me, and it is difficult for me to think of myself like that.

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fiby41
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by fiby41 » Thu May 04, 2017 12:43 am

This extract will explain :
1 boundary between the Self and everything else
2 The attachment we feel towards people, possessions and objects
3 What part of what we own can be inherited by others
4 boundary between progenitor and progeny as define by what can be retained/inherited from the progenitor by the progeny and what cannot.

41 “Maitreyi,” Yajnavalkya said to his wife one day, “the
time has come for me to go forth from the worldly life.
Come, my dear, let me divide my property between
you and Katyayani.”
MAITREYI
4 2 My lord, if I could get all the wealth in the world,
would it help me to go beyond death?
YAJNAVALKYA
Not at all. You would live and die like any other rich
person. No one can buy immortality with money.
MAITREYI
4 3 O f what use then are money and material
possessions to me? Please tell me, my lord, of the way
that leads to immortality.

YAJNAVALKYA
44 You have always been dear to me, Maitreyi, and I
love you even more now that you have asked me about
immortality. Sit here by my side and reflect deeply on
what I say.

4 5 A wife loves her husband not for his own sake, dear,
but because the Self lives in him.
A husband loves his wife not for her own sake, dear,
but because the Self lives in her.
Children are loved not for their own sake, but because
the Self lives in them.
Wealth is loved not for its own sake, but because the
Self lives in it.
Brahmins are loved not for their own sake, but
because the Self lives in them.
Kshatriyas are loved not for their own sake, but
because the Self lives in them.
The universe is loved not for its own sake, but because
the Self lives in it.
The gods are loved not for their own sake, but because
the Self lives in them.
Creatures are loved not for their own sake, but because
the Self lives in them.
Everything is loved not for its own sake, but because
the Self lives in it.

This Self has to be realized. Hear about this Self and
meditate upon him, Maitreyi. When you hear about
the Self, meditate upon the Self, and finally realize the
Self, you come to understand everything in life.

4 6 For brahmins confuse those who regard them as
separate from the Self. Kshatriyas confuse those who
regard them as separate from the Self. The universe
confuses those who regard it as separate from the Self.
Gods and creatures confuse those who regard them as
separate from the Self. Everything confuses those who
regard things as separate from the Self.
Brahmins, kshatriyas, creatures, the universe, the
gods, everything: these are the Self.

4 7 No one can understand the sounds of a drum
without understanding both drum and drummer;
4 8 nor the sounds of a conch without understanding
both the conch and its blower;
49 nor the sounds of a vina without understanding both vina and musician.

4-10 As clouds of smoke arise from a fire laid with damp
fuel, even so from the Supreme have issued forth all the
Vedas, history, arts, sciences, poetry, aphorisms, and
commentaries. All these are the breath of the Supreme.

411 As there can be no water without the sea,
no touch without the skin,
no smell without the nose,
no taste without the tongue,
no form without the eye,
no sound without the ear,
no thought without the mind,
no wisdom without the heart,
no work without hands,
no walking without feet,
no scriptures without the word,
so there can be nothing without the Self.

412 As a lump of salt thrown in water dissolves and
cannot be taken out again, though wherever we taste
the water it is salty, even so, beloved, the separate self
dissolves in the sea of pure consciousness, infinite and
immortal.
Separateness arises from identifying the
Self with the body, which is made up of the elements;
when this physical identification dissolves, there can
be no more separate self. This is what I want to tell
you, beloved.

from chapter 2 (The Path to Immortality) of The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (Eknath Easwaran's translation.)

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu May 04, 2017 7:11 am

@fiby41: Lovely.

I have been reading in circles of related topics lately, and the question that keeps popping up, in simple terms, would be "Is it possible to adopt systems-based thinking, without simultaneously adopting some form of spirituality?" IOW, once you move away from the limited realm of problems that can be addressed through reductionist methods, and you are dealing with "qualities" and "perspectives" and "relationships" , it becomes necessary to include the symbol of the cloud in your systems diagram to indicate unknown or unknowable inputs to the open system. Of course, that which theoretically could be known, or learned by Self, is limited by death.

A big wooden dollhouse was one of my favorite toys when I was a child. I wanted it to be as realistic as possible, so one time I put water from the "real" toilet into the tiny model toilet. My parents were not pleased. I believe it is possible that this event was the basis for my intense dislike of organized religions, which I view as primarily being based on archaic sanitation rules.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by ThisDinosaur » Thu May 04, 2017 7:36 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 7:11 am
my intense dislike of organized religions, which I view as primarily being based on archaic sanitation rules.
I always thought organized religion was more about political control, but its hard not to notice all the cleanliness and orifice related rules in the abrahamic scriptures.

7Wannabe5
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Re: System Boundaries and Inheritance

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:11 am

@ThisDinosaur:

Right. Politics are about sanitation rules too. I am interested in basic human patterns such as the-formation-of-the-hearth or the-designation-of-the-place-to-shit. As population density rises, the designation-of-the-place-to-shit, whether narrowly or widely defined, becomes more of a critical issue. For instance, think about how some grouchy old guy having a livid reaction to the neighbor's dog pooping on his lawn has become almost a modern suburbanite stereotype. Highly likely that neighbor also engages in behavior such as "makes his wife bring in the trash cans because he is so god-damn lazy." I don't mean to be particularly picking on men with this description either. It's just that for some conglomeration of reasons, they are more often in the role of fence-walker.

I am continuing to read some post-apocalyptic novels, including the second book in Kunstler's series "The Witches of Hebron." I liked that he developed some more interesting (to me) roles for some of the female characters in this volume. The witch is a former professional model who becomes an herbalist/prostitute to support herself at a level several notches above the average in the post-crash world. The novel take place during the season of Halloween, and the generation born post-apocalypse is reverting to assigning this holiday a spiritual and superstitious, rather than secular, designation. Since I work with young children a good deal, I can see how easily this could occur. One of the kindergarten teachers made a big deal about St. Patrick's Day this year, so there are now at least a dozen 6 year olds recently immigrated from Yemen and Bangladesh, who believe in leprechauns, and at least one who simultaneously believes in leprechauns and thinks it is proper sanitary practice to splash the entire front of his pants with water every time he visits the boy's room.

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