Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

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Spartan_Warrior
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Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:44 am

Any thoughts? Personally I'm looking for the best combination of the following:

1) reasonable cost of living (no more expensive than east coast US, ideally far less)
2) under the radar of US foreign policy, not a major player on world stage (certainly no enemies or countries rich in oil, nor major allies, the further away and more insignificant, the better)
3) easy immigration policies
4) English is widely spoken if not predominant
5) low crime/low danger
6) affordable/public health care
7) modern tech and internet connectivity
8) generally "progressive" policies: low police presence/security state, low or no prosecution of cannabis or other drug use, low political corruption (things like ranked choice voting or more than "two" political parties a plus), emphasis on personal (versus corporate) rights and freedoms, including right to bear arms

Nice to haves would include good scenery, interesting culture, maybe ex-pat communities, and good farming conditions.

I'm not necessarily anticipating finding all of that in one place, of course, but a majority would be nice. For instance, I've been thinking about Canada, New Zealand, or Australia, which I believe hit most points except 2 and parts of 8.

Thoughts? Resources?

P.S. Thread not intended for discussion of my political preferences or US politics. Thanks.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by jacob » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:56 am

There were some suggestions in the Brexit thread.

OTCW
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by OTCW » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:57 am

New Zealand seems to be the place where the mega rich want to emigrate to as their SHTF insurance policy. Also gaining steam for the not as wealthy.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.u ... p/38766821

George the original one
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by George the original one » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:42 am

Ireland used to be the obvious choice if you were artistic due to favorable tax treatment. Don't know if that's still true.

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distracted_at_work
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by distracted_at_work » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:04 pm

Other than not rich in oil, further away and right to bear arms you described Canada.

I don't think there is a country in the world that fulfills every bullet point. I'd recommend a decision matrix to weight what you value more and then rank countries from there.

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BRUTE
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by BRUTE » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:43 pm

brute thought Canada was very expensive? all the Canadians keep complaining about high costs for gas, products, rent, .. or maybe that's just Vancouver.

brute seriously recommends looking beyond English-speaking. English-speaking is expensive. Spartan_Warrior is essentially paying the population of the country to speak his language, instead of learning to speak their language.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:45 pm

My recommendation. Lovely small city with all sorts of amenities, surrounded by parks and farmland. Just watch out for senior discount night at the more popular fish and chips joints and you can't go wrong.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-livi ... on-ontario

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by simplex » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:15 pm

5) low crime/low danger
and
including right to bear arms

might be a tough combination.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by distracted_at_work » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:40 pm

@Brute. Correct, avoid Toronto and Vancouver. An American with any assets at all should love to emigrate to the other parts though. The exchange rate is extremely favorable. Gas and rent can be managed depending on where you live within the country.

General goods, alcohol and tobacco will cost you quite a bit more yes. In exchange, you get everything else on the list, less my prior exclusions.

@7Wannabe5 My friends that went to London for University loved it. Personally, I plan on picking somewhere in Southern B.C to ERE after I finish making all my dirty oil money.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by thrifty++ » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:41 pm

Couple mentions of NZ here. Meets all of your conditions except number 1. It is very expensive here. Generally alot more than USA. NZ is ranked as having the most unaffordable housing in the word by The Economist - house prices vs income. So its not really an ERE friendly place. Rent costs and house purchase costs are very high. Food is not too bad. Maybe slightly more than USA. You can grow almost anything in NZ and the food tends to be very high quality too. Anything else will cost alot more than USA. Incomes are average globally and are less than USA which makes it harder to manage the high costs. Also the right to bear arms is not really a thing here but you dont need them.

On the other hand NZ can be very cheap if you dont really need to work here and can spend all your time in a campervan touring and/or travelling amongst all the nature trails everywhere. Lots of natural beauty with few people, beaches everywhere, lakes everywhere, forests everywhere mountains etc. You can freedom camp in NZ or live on a boat. Camping fees can be tiny or free. That way you dont need to live in one of the expensive cities. So I think it works if you can live that life and dont need to accumulate. But if you are needing to accumulate funds then not a great place to come
Last edited by thrifty++ on Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by jacob » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:44 pm

@SW - Would also sincerely suggest (w/o being to flippant about it although it is kinda funny/ironic) to look into just relocating within the US and moving to another state. A supreme strength of US culture is that it tends to be much more tolerant AND diversified in terms of cultures compared to other/smaller countries.

Externally, the US is often seen as a single uniform country ("America") whereas it's definitely not when you look locally. When looking at things at the ground level, California and Indiana might as well be entirely different countries---they're more different than Denmark vis-a-vis Switzerland. Aside from the shared language and the unifying ideal of "these united states" ... it's similar to Europe (no shared language .. and as far as united goes ... that's getting abandoned real fast these days). It's a continent sized power ... but in terms of integration, the US is 50+ years ahead of Yurop, at least. TL;DR --- Americans consider themselves Americans first and "states" second. Europe is the other way around with countries first and EU second. Whatever you like depends on your [globalist] orientation.

I'm somewhat of a cosmopolitan at heart, so I think the US has a better handle on this (200+ years of experience), whereas the EU is still struggling and currently looking like it might fizzle. After all the former was built on enlightenment ideals, whereas the latter was an attempt to avoid WWIII...

What you're looking for (based on my semi-limited/lived in three states understanding) might be found in NorCal? Or just the PNW in general? As for (7), the Kaiser system might be as good as it gets currently. For the eastern seaboard, consider Vermont ... but you gotta be semi-loaded $$$ to consider that. There's a bunch of books discussing the different "nations" within the United States. I've found them very useful.

The other thing to consider is that in terms of personal happiness, all that might be required is to move across your city. Just as things tend to get culturally segregated on a continental level, the same fractality works at city-scales.

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Ego
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by Ego » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:45 pm

In general, those who are genuinely enthusiastic about being in their new home country, state or city usually thrive after the move.
Those who move to get away from their old country, state or city usually do not thrive.
While this is not always the case, in my experience it is true more often than not.

Mrs. Ego recently had a long phone conversation with a young woman who had just received her green card by way of the immigration lottery and was thinking of renting an apartment with us. The woman explained how she had always dreamed of living in California and was so excited she was jumping out of her skin. She kept saying she had won the lottery. Which she did.

I'd encourage you to do two things:
1) Travel to those places in the off-season and rent an AirBNB. See if you can carve out a short-term happy existence while there.
2) Spend time with immigrants while here in the US. Especially those who came for the proverbial "better life". See the place through their eyes.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by enigmaT120 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:53 pm

simplex wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:15 pm
5) low crime/low danger
and
including right to bear arms

might be a tough combination.
It describes most of the rural U.S. Probably 75% or more of the country.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by sky » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 pm

Namibia

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 pm

Sounds like you're describing Colorado except for affordable/public healthcare. You'd be dealing with ACA.

The first place I'd look to go is Canada. It's not cheap but the area I'm familiar with (N. Ontario) is less costly than the northern half of US East Coast. Doesn't meet all your criteria--it's large and close, but enough of an ally that the US doesn't meddle there much. A big part of the economy is about exploiting natural resources, which some people find objectionable. But lots of open space, clean air and water, a very polite culture, and depending on how immediate of a threat you think climate change is, it seems well positioned for a warmer world. The immigration process is not instantaneous so you'd want to plan a few years ahead of time.

New Zealand is also intriguing based on the scenery alone. I don't know how favorably they view Americans though.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:51 pm

Ego wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:45 pm
In general, those who are genuinely enthusiastic about being in their new home country, state or city usually thrive after the move.
Those who move to get away from their old country, state or city usually do not thrive.
While this is not always the case, in my experience it is true more often than not.
Luckily those two are not mutually exclusive. But you're right. I think it applies to ER(E) even. Much better to identify a life after work that you desire and excites you than to simply hate a job and want out. People who are habituated to seeing/focusing on the negative tend to carry that trait with them wherever they go. Folks here are probably sick of me repeating this (dunno the source), but, "It's not what you look at that matters most, it's what you see."

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by C40 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:05 pm

Why leave?

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by distracted_at_work » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:30 pm

^

For what it's worth, if given the chance, I'd move to the United States in a heartbeat.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by thrifty++ » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:32 pm

IlliniDave wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 pm
New Zealand is also intriguing based on the scenery alone. I don't know how favorably they view Americans though.
New Zealanders are friendly towards Americans and they slot in easily here. NZers are sometimes not favourable to US politics though.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by General Snoopy » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:08 am

You should add point (9):

(9) Ease of qualifying for immigration. Many countries put up road blocks preventing or severely restricting immigration.

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BRUTE
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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by BRUTE » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:50 am

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:44 am
3) easy immigration policies

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by Jean » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:50 am

Switzerland match those criterion.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by RealPerson » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:54 am

Your list describes many parts of the US, except for the affordable healthcare. So what is your reason for wanting to leave? I think almost any other place will be less compatible with your list than many cities/states in the US.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by Spartan_Warrior » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:26 am

I didn't want to elaborate on this because I didn't and don't want this to become focused primarily on my reasons. That said, since so many have asked, I am interested in leaving for political/safety reasons. The new administration continuously demonstrates its danger to democracy and personal freedom here at home, not to mention there appears to be an increasing risk of world war abroad. This is also why I feel skeptical of major allied countries who would fight on America's side in a major world war. Sort of like being in Italy or Germany in the late 30s. Frankly I want to leave while I still can.

Additionally, it's no secret I don't particularly like where I live or my current job (although work from home has made it a big improvement). My net worth is up nicely the last few months, I'm soon to be married, and it seems like a good time to consider switching my lifestyle up and finding greener pastures. We've been looking for a place we can own some amount of land at a decent price and focus on homesteading. We've already been looking at places to move in the US for months, primarily CO and WV with occasional glances toward OR and WA. Like I said, the political changes in this country over the last few months have prompted me to broaden the search to outside the borders.

Disagree if you like, preferably not here, but those are my reasons.
NZers are sometimes not favourable to US politics though.
Sounds ideal.

NZ was where I've been leaning honestly. Ireland is intriguing as well because my fiancee seems able to claim citizenship due to her grandmother being born in Ireland.

ETA: Also I naturally listed my preferences in more or less order of importance. For instance, right to bear arms is last for a reason. It's really only important if some of the other criteria are not present (like 2 or 5).

ETA2: Actually, you know what, I'm going to make a different thread to discuss reasons in favor or against staying/being in America in the near future. I'd kinda rather this thread focus on practical matters of good countries that meet the criteria, what it's like to live in them, best ways to get in, etc.

ETA3: On third thought, I don't have the energy for the political debate that would surely entail. I do think the question is both separate enough from this topic and of global enough interest to deserve its own thread, but I'm not starting it now. If someone else wants to create a "Convince Me to Remain an American" thread (in the style of C40's timeless classic "Convince Me to Have Kids") go ahead. Or... or just bog this thread down with it... I guess it doesn't really matter.

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Re: Best Countries for Americans to Immigrate

Post by Campitor » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:47 am

Unless there is a total war similar to WW2, you should be safe moving to an isolated part of the US where neighbors are miles apart. If WW3 does break out, there will be nowhere safe to live. Research NZ living thoroughly, it's not the immigrant paradise you think it is.

If you don't mind the low/high risk of revolution, guerilla warfare, 3rd world medical infrastructure, or grease the palm to cut-the-red-tape bureaucracy , you should be able to find a tropical region to live in that is far off the political/strategical cross hairs.

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