What to do when FI

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:47 am

.... wtf forum?
Last edited by FBeyer on Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

EdithKeeler
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by EdithKeeler » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:54 am

Have you considered that you may possibly be a bit depressed? Might be worth getting checked for it. No shame in tweaking your brain chemicals if they're a little wonky. And if they're not, even better.

I'm afraid I can't relate much to your dilemma. If I didn't have to work, I can think of approximately 1 million things I'd like to do with that time.

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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:55 am

cmonkey wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 am
@FBeyer, those are all things you enjoy doing. Perhaps the OP wouldn't enjoy anything on that list.

One other thing that would help out is to know your MB personality? Are you introverted or extroverted? That will help you narrow down which direction to go.
Well, no. They're not.

Jean is physically fit[1] so any near-free physical things to do could be tangentially interesting. Ie yoga, personal trainer and so on. New ways of moving could potentially be interesting, new ways of using your brain (ie meditating) could be very beneficial in case that is not a well-developed aspect.

Our resident protagonist is also an engineer: hence learning new and applicable programming languages could open up even more avenues of creativity for him. Programming is thus not only related to an existing education but could also serve to alleviate some boredom in the future since all you need is a working computer (and an internet connection while you're googling the one million things you need to know about the language you're learning).

Physically building something rather than calculating it and/or drawing it would still be related to many kinds of engineering.

Since we're dealing with an engineer who has a distinct creative side to him, why not entice him towards further creativity? ie Drawing? If Jean wanted to make music, I reckon he would already be on it.

If you have an unhappy SO, making nice food is almost surely one of the easiest ways to appease any misgivings about your surplus of free time versus their deficiency of free time. It's called being a good SO.

etc...


Maybe the issue is not "What do to" but "how do I stop procrastinating?"

[1] Halfmoon: do NOT under any circumstances click the link. You will be traumatized![2] Everyone else are perfectly safe.
[2] If you click the link any way, don't say I didn't warn you.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Jean » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:18 pm

I allready do some music. It's the only thing i produce.
I don't need idea. I have ton of them. I need a purpose in order to want to carry on things when they stop being pleasant.
I graduated because i wanted to proof that i was good enough. I did this special force thing for the same reason. But now, nothing seems to have a point.
When free of obligation, i get up because i'm thirsty and play video games. Nowvthat i quit gaming, i stay in bed until i have to meet someone. And i got back to music. But i dont know if i have enough ego for it.

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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:46 pm

Prove that you're good enough? Prove what and to whom? (who? spelling help needed)
Who gets the final say when it comes to gauging whether you are 'good enough'?

Me?
Reddit?
Your parents?
The government?
Youtube commenters?
You?

Shit's gonna get difficult at some point. Those who overcome shit get the results and the admiration they deserve, those who quit as soon as shit turns tough get nothing. Shit's probably good when it was hard to make. You've overcome shit before, why is this different?

Music in particular is good when you can hear the artist in the music, right? Putting you into your music is probably the most diffiult thing a musician encounters because you need to be very familiar with your instrument before you develop that ideosynchratic expression. That shit takes work! A shit ton of motherfucking work! And a spine, because you are putting 'you' out there when you express yourself creatively. If you compose its most likely even more difficult because your voice has to be recognized in 'the manuscript' rather than in the sound itself. What's wrong with making music if that is what you like to do? Are you ONLY willing to make music if you get rich and famous? Are you willing to make music if everyone dislikes it, but you love it? Do you dream of some specific outcome when you're playing or are you simply spending time expressing yourself? Are you practicing something deliberately or are you noodling around for hours with no clear intention?

If you're feeling more besides yourself in a way you haven't experienced before, go see your doctor. I'm serious. Depression (and its related siblings) never feels like what you think it does.

Have you burned yourself out on strenous activities in the past and need a major break? If you simply need to fuck around and do nothing productive with your life until your shame gets you motivated, then so be it, but make sure you've checked off all the other boxes first.

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fiby41
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by fiby41 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:15 pm

The wiki has a bucket list of things to do when FI. There's also a blog post about it. (I don't have the links but it would be quick to find.)

How about getting a job and doing it however you want to do it? Putting in the bare minimum to not get fired ... Or just doing it how you feel it is right, how you think it should be done, knowing well that you have the stability, power and F-you money even if it doesn't work out?

(I think there's a thread about this also but again I don't have the link handy.)

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by jacob » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:32 pm

Jean wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:20 pm
...
I'de like to get a job, but any real job requires me to work full time, which isn't compatible with how I like to organise my time.
...
So my goals are:
-Create something that is somehow valued by other humans.
-Keep my SO happy with me and have 2-4 kids.
-Have a lot of time to spend with family and friends.
-Build a source for food and heat that doesn't require money.
Cooking (molecular gastronomy?), chef, event planning/organizing, ... ?

All lend themselves to part-time efforts and creates something (food) that most humans value. You didn't mention scale? Are we taking a million people or just a few? The culinary-arts school would also create structure. And cost money. With sufficient drive, you could self-educate to a fairly high degree. Fancy baking seems particularly popular.

The main problem with these kind of lists is that you "can't want to want" them (Goethe, IIRC), which of course is the main problem. It's easy to come up with long lists of hundreds of different activities, but usually the problem is not lack of imagination but rather the lack of meaning.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Jean » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:21 am

I don't even want to want.
I need to need.
I needed to finish degree and special forces selection process in order not to loose face in front of myself.
Signing up for it didn't requir a lot of motivation.
I still do some music. I will do more. I don't want fame, I just want to point at the truth in catchy ways.

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BRUTE
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by BRUTE » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:31 pm

brute has experienced similar troubles.

seems that the only solution is to construct one's own rat race.

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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:30 am

BRUTE wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:31 pm
brute has experienced similar troubles.

seems that the only solution is to construct one's own rat race.
The positive formulation of which is referred to as: identifying what you want out of life.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by fingeek » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:44 am

I've experienced this too (still do). There's something about "winning at life" (however you prefer to calculate that) that, I think, causes miserable depression, burnout and pointlessness for particular personality types (I'm a Type A INTJ).

I *need* to have a goal. I enjoy the thrill of rushing to the finish line as quick as efficiently as possible. I'm miserable when I get there. I'm currently employed, but I got to where I wanted to be ~2yrs ago, and since then I haven't been motivated, challenged or happy. I envy the Type Bs!!

One answer is to find a goal bigger than yourself/your lifetime - Some would call it your purpose. Perhaps you're destined to do something a lot bigger than yourself.
-Create something that is somehow valued by other humans.
Perhaps follow your curiosities, and even take some people with you? If you find something interesting, it's extremely likely that others will find that interesting too.
Mountaineering is fun
-Build a source for food and heat that doesn't require money.
Demartini has given me some good perspective on things, and has really helped, worth taking 30 mins to view https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZPn_2t4yvY then identify your values and see where that takes you. Good luck, have fun! :-)

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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:01 am

Jordan Peterson talks about the need for responsibility in order to lead a meaningful life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QctT0Oc_uQQ

Women are 'given' by virtue of biology responsibility, men have to find it and make something themselves. Meanwhile society is treating boys as pathological and unworthy of their own achievements which tends to turn men in particular into a group on unresponsible 'children'. When you don't get anything from your hard work and get discredited by virtue of the existing politcal debate, why the hell would you get up and do anything?
People will carry a heavy load if they get to choose their own load

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Jean » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:43 am

Yes, thinking that i have to make music seems to help a lot. I produced one tune a day for the last days. Having responsabilities seems key.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by distracted_at_work » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:41 am

I actually thought about this thread a lot because I expect I might have the same problem at FI. OP, I'd recommend reading Man's Search for Meaning if you haven't before. It's about how the author had to find purpose in his life in order to survive the holocaust. It really helped me.

I don't think we (humans) can just live for the sake of existing. We need to always be moving forward in some way or another.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FrugalFred » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:34 am

Oh, I don't know... hike, build the body of a Greek god, read, play videogames, travel... live. There are a million things I want to do but can't because of my 50 hour work week. That's why I'll never understand these kind of posts. If it's that much of an ordeal, then give your free time to MMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by wood » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:34 am

Go see with your own eyes how people are coping in shittyer places on earth. See it, smell it, touch it. Changing perspective can sometimes help finding purpose.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by sky » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:51 am

I enjoy not doing much, just little maintenance things here and there. I take naps and I have a foot massage machine that I use several times a day. Every few days I cook up a pot of beans for my favorite bean taco lunch. A couple of times a month I go to the store to get ingredients for muesli and tacos. I eat with others in the evening. I can spend as much time on bathing and hygiene as I want, it is good to care for one's self. I have a garden and have set up a nice irrigation system that I look at every day. I don't have to do much because it is automatic. My current quest is political scheming and gaming. It provides a good reason to get together with other people. We go for rides to look at the countryside quite a bit. Minor car maintenance, house maintenance, bike maintenance, etc. I have a few hobbies that are objects of fascination for a time, bicycling, canoeing, amateur radio. But I only do them when I feel like it and if the weather is good.

I have worked at a career so I can point out past accomplishments to others. To me it doesn't matter so much but sometimes it is easier to be retired from some difficult work, people understand you better. It gives you a reason and justification (to others) to be living a life of leisure.

When I look back in time over the past few months, I don't worry too much about not completing big accomplishments. I like living in the present. If my portfolio started to dip, I would get a job and try to build it up again. For now things are looking good so I don't worry too much about it.

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Allagash
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Allagash » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm

Retirement (especially with no kids) can be a challenge, I retired 2 yrs ago at 45 years old. Everyone my age is stuck in their 9-5 lifestyle. Most people get their identity from their jobs. But, MORE importantly that many working people greatly discount, is you get DAILY social interaction at work. And you have a structure to your life (get up, shower, get dressed, take the train to work, etc...) When you are single with no kids and retired, it can be a BIG challenge to integrate daily social life and human interaction into your daily life.

The OP hit the nail on the head on what I'm trying to solve myself, how can I have a life like I have free to do what I want, when I want, but still do something that I have passion for, gives me purpose, and is challenging everyday, and gets me interacting with other human beings. The problem with paid jobs is they are structured, you have to be somewhere at a certain time and do what they tell you to do and the people you work with might suck.

Dating has also been tough for me. Most women my age are deep into their careers 8am-6pm everyday, and their career is their life. Most also have a high spending lifestyle. Being retired I have flexibility to do a lot of stuff during the week, travel, etc... and they do not. And when you are ERE type and early retired, you are just kind of on a "different wavelength" then most other people in the corporate rat race. And it can be very hard to relate to working stiffs.

Volunteering is something I need to get out and do a lot more. If I could find something I could do when I wanted to do it, make some friends, and enjoy and be challenged by it this might work. It might take me a lot of trial and error to find the right volunteer gig.

Travel can get old IMO as you get older. It was fun in 20's and 30's traveling around the world and staying in hostels, but it starts to ring hollow and get lonely in your 40's traveling alone. I don't do a lot of international travel anymore, but I do still like weekend road trips and trips to warm weather in winter. Stuff like golf, hiking, etc. is OK, but gets old too.

I think figuring out some place I could do maybe a small version of semi-urban homesteading might be a good project to get into. Just have to find out where. Where I live now (Puget Sound area of WA) land and housing is WAY too expensive!

So in summary, early retirement (on a budget!) has been a bit isolating and lonely for me, even a bit depressing at times, but I hope to find my niche.

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BRUTE
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by BRUTE » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:04 pm

FBeyer wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:30 am
BRUTE wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:31 pm
brute has experienced similar troubles.

seems that the only solution is to construct one's own rat race.
The positive formulation of which is referred to as: identifying what you want out of life.
brute forgot to add this previously:

positive thinking is for those who need it

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by MDFIRE2024 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:18 am

Allagash wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm
So in summary, early retirement (on a budget!) has been a bit isolating and lonely for me, even a bit depressing at times, but I hope to find my niche.
I'm afraid of that. Currently I am on my way to FI, maybe RE, in the year 2024. You have summed up my main worries very well.
Therefore I am trying to build a sustainable lifestyle right now. I don't want to wait till 2024 and then recognize that I lost many years. It had to be a balance.

For some months I have started and updated my Get-a-life-tree and Ultimate-life-adventour-list, based on the book "How to retire happy, wild and free" from Ernie J Zelinski. It helped me a lot to so far. I can recommend it to everybody who think or have issues with what to do when FI / RE.

If / when I am FI I'd like to experiment a bit with various kind of occupations like volunteering, other jobs, different employers maybe as well.

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Allagash
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Allagash » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:28 pm

MDFIRE2024 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:18 am
Allagash wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm
So in summary, early retirement (on a budget!) has been a bit isolating and lonely for me, even a bit depressing at times, but I hope to find my niche.
I'm afraid of that. Currently I am on my way to FI, maybe RE, in the year 2024. You have summed up my main worries very well.
Therefore I am trying to build a sustainable lifestyle right now. I don't want to wait till 2024 and then recognize that I lost many years. It had to be a balance.

For some months I have started and updated my Get-a-life-tree and Ultimate-life-adventour-list, based on the book "How to retire happy, wild and free" from Ernie J Zelinski. It helped me a lot to so far. I can recommend it to everybody who think or have issues with what to do when FI / RE.

If / when I am FI I'd like to experiment a bit with various kind of occupations like volunteering, other jobs, different employers maybe as well.
I have seen that Zelinski book and glanced though it, that is a good one.

I've never seen hard facts on it, but I have heard it said before that many men die a few years after retirement because of the loss of purpose in their life. And retiring in your 40's is a whole new deal because you still have so much time left.

Its really hard to understand until you fully retire. Everyone thinks, wow I will have so much free time I'll go on hikes in the middle of the day, play golf whenever I want, travel, etc... But after a year or so all of that gets old. That's why a lot of uber successful people like Warren Buffett never retire and still go to the office every day at 87 years old, it keeps him alive and healthy. Then again Buffett loves what he does. If you were a high achieving person especially, it can be hard to be middle age and not have something intellectually challenging or exciting, that next big goal, to pursue everyday. You start to ask, "what the hell am I doing with my life"?

For me I would still take retirement over a normal job ANY DAY :!: I just hated the structure, routine, doing what someone else wanted me to do everyday that profited them not me, working with people who I didn't like and who were incompetent, traffic, etc... I didn't love what I was doing, and unfortunately was never one of the lucky ones who found a passion that was also my paid work (like guys like Buffett).

I think I will eventually find my niche in retirement. I spend some time researching and working on investing my money most weeks, so that is somewhat work. But that doesn't get me around others interacting socially. I think a key is to find you niche and routine of some activities that get you interacting with others everyday, meeting new people, learning new skills.... I don't think it's a good thing to be a hermit. It's not as easy as it sounds. I have done a lot of meetup.com activities but they get old too (hikes, happy hours, etc...). I've looked at a lot of volunteering, but a lot of it is very mundane (working check ins at non profit fundraising and charity events, trail work clearing trails in state parks, creek restoration, building houses habitat for humanity, etc...). I need to put more effort into trial and error to find my volunteering niche. It just takes a lot of time to look up these opportunities, drive out to them, you may not like it and waste you day or night, etc... Just lots of time consuming trial and error.

Recently I thought about living in a RV full time and roaming around the U.S., but I think it sounds a lot better than the reality of it. And I have seen a lot of the U.S. already being a avid road tripper and car camper my whole life.

I also hike, ski, golf, camp...but I've yet to find a new hobby that is really engaging to me. I'm on the look out for one. I think I've heard Jacob mention bike repair and woodworking...I think those are interesting hobbies. I might get more into biking around to everything I do more, and repairing my own bike.

To repeat, one of the most difficult things I have found being single is finding a partner that is also retired or has a really flexible job. I have dated a lot and it just doesn't work well with women that are into their 8-6pm 6 days a week corporate rate race job. I want to possibly live in two or more places (snowbird) or RV part of year or travel part of year, very challenging to find someone near my age in my 40's who can also live this lifestyle. There are plenty of 65 year old+ retired women who can do this lifestyle though! But a bit out of my age range!

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by leeholsen » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:28 pm

you have to figure out big things that interest you, like learning Chinese, going to college for an applied sciences degree in a field that is nearly limitless like astrophysics or growing your own forest within you properties limits, mastering a difficult musical instrument, traveling to see virtually every paved mile of the usa.

there's something out there for you, you just hadn't found it; or you could just play those video and online games all day.

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Re: What to do when FI

Post by thrifty++ » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:44 am

Allagash wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm
Retirement (especially with no kids) can be a challenge, I retired 2 yrs ago at 45 years old. Everyone my age is stuck in their 9-5 lifestyle. Most people get their identity from their jobs. But, MORE importantly that many working people greatly discount, is you get DAILY social interaction at work. And you have a structure to your life (get up, shower, get dressed, take the train to work, etc...) When you are single with no kids and retired, it can be a BIG challenge to integrate daily social life and human interaction into your daily life.

So in summary, early retirement (on a budget!) has been a bit isolating and lonely for me, even a bit depressing at times, but I hope to find my niche.
Sounds like you might need to find an ERE dating pool. As scarce as that is Seattle is a big city at least. Maybe you could start a meetup here. Or start a more generic personal finance meeting group, not necessarily off this more specific and niche site.
Last edited by thrifty++ on Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Allagash
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by Allagash » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:41 pm

That is a good idea. A local meetup for early retired folks.

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FBeyer
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Re: What to do when FI

Post by FBeyer » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:27 am

Jean wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:43 am
Yes, thinking that i have to make music seems to help a lot. I produced one tune a day for the last days. Having responsabilities seems key.
It's a take on procrastination that I've yet to see. Not 100 percent novel, but tackles procrastination from a different angle than usual.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/3w3/how_to_beat ... stination/

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