Safe strategies for living in a van in below-freezing conditions?

[TopHatFox]

I don't like the idea of having a 20 lb propane tank in the van obviously. It's like sleeping next to a bomb haha.

I suppose I could simply have 10 degree sleeping bags and work/stay in bed during the coldest days, or maybe finding healthy, heavy insulation?

[TheWanderingScholar]

What I can think of?
Covering up the gaps with cloth and the like. Electric Heaters (battery powered to avoid sleeping next to a bomb. Wear layers. And if possible, during bad weeks, just rent a motel for a week. It may cost money, but it beats dying or hypothermia.

[cmonkey]

Drive south.

[TheWanderingScholar]

^ Or that.

[7Wannabe5]

Combination of space blankets and electric blankets which can run off of van battery? You might be surprised by how much warmer it is in a small enclosed area containing your body heat than being outside. Keeping your water supply from freezing will be another issue. Also, there are indoor safe propane heaters that use the small tank. Insulation is key. Having a bear-like bed companion is also helpful. Nobody wants a skinny girl after Labor Day in the U.P. But, I guess you could maybe round up 3 skinny girls, or two skinny girls and a dog, and that would work too.

[C40]

+1 to Drive south, or live in an apartment

if you really want to live in the van up there in winter:
- Just keep your body warm, not the entire van. Bundle up with clothes and blankets. I'm not sure how bearable this strategy is when it's zero degrees outside. Because you have to come out of your clothes/blankets some times. Some people I know do this, but also use an electric blanket for SHORT periods of time. (using electric heat from a battery charged only or mainly from solar panels will NOT work at your lattitude. There isn't enough sunlight (and that's why it's so cold outside the sun isn't providing enough energy for it to be warm,... so it can't provide enough energy for you to be warm in your van. It would require enough solar panels to cover a class B or A RV ))

If you want to use some form of a heater:
- Insulate the van well. This is tricky and impossible to do with full effectiveness because of all the crevices, curves, hollow beams, etc. If you work really hard you can get it pretty well insulated, but never entirely properly and you're going to have some kind of condensation problem that eventually adds up to having to tear the van apart and re-do it.
- Heaters - of the mainstream options, there is only ONE way to do it right. That's using a propane heater that vents the exhaust gas. (like a Propex). NOT electric (unless you'll be hooked up to electricity all the time where you don't have to pay the bill). NOT propane heaters that burn inside like the Mr. Buddy heaters (They make a lot of heat, but produce so much moisture that you have to vent the van a LOT, or end up with a ton of condensation. NOT one of those wood stoves you see the rainbow people using on Instagram (they take up way too much space and are way more dangerous than a 20lb propane bottle)

[Riggerjack]

Evacuated tube solar thermal? I haven't a clue about how you would make this work, as we don't combine sun and cold here, in the PNW. I only know they work better than plate collectors in the cold.

But when you aren't using it for heating, you can use it for water heating.

I wouldn't use it as the sole solution, but it may work to reduce the loads of your main system.

[PA Hiker]

Here’s a couple of ideas

Always park facing south. There is a surprising amount of insolation from the sun, even on cloudy days.

Sleep high up in the van if possible. Cold air sinks. Mountaineers will dig a ‘cold well’ in their emergency bivouac snow caves.

Sleep with a hot water bottle. Refill it from time to time with hot water from a vacuum insulated thermos.

Which leads to this one. Pee in a plastic bottle and keep it with you until its heat dissipates (Bear Grylls trick).

If it is really cold. You can make an emergency heat source with a tin can, a roll of toilet paper and rubbing alcohol (70% or better). You could also use it to heat up water for your hot water bottle. Some ventilation for fresh air will be needed and I think that I would want a CO monitor even though alcohol stoves supposedly don’t produce much CO.

[bryan]

You didn't mention any constraints other than not liking propane tanks.

It seems like it's just a physics problem with cost rankings of solutions that fit your needs and wants. My list of ideas on the matter is quite long... eventually you start getting into some really zany ideas.

Aerogel mats are probably the most effective while still practical insulation option. For heating/cooling.. there are many and they are not specific to vans. Though there are kits like https://www.butlertechnik.com/vehicle-heater-kits-c1 which might be nice to tap into your aux/main diesel tank.

[James_0011]

What about one of those sleeping bags that are designed for the arctic?

Really though, why not just get a job in a warm or moderate area?

[Toska2]

Go to a place that has dirtbags winter camping like any ski town. I counted 40 here. Everything from regular truck campers, 1980's VW vans, snub nose Chevy's/ dodge elk vans and those fancy MB vans.

The longer term ones use an inverter generator 20 feet away.. Staying in a van usually means there's an activity that takes them outside a large portion of the day. That means cooking and some safe electric heat only a few hours. Heat at night is a warm sleeping bag. They're $150-300 for 0°F, comfortable at 20°F.

Condensation is your main enemy. I had my car so damp that the trunk froze shut. Imagine living in your car and finding you can't get to 2/3 of your stuff.


He is an Extrovert. He enjoys asking us instead of Google.

[mfi]

Indoor parking + warm sleeping bag

[halfmoon]

- Heaters - of the mainstream options, there is only ONE way to do it right. That's using a propane heater that vents the exhaust gas. (like a Propex). NOT electric (unless you'll be hooked up to electricity all the time where you don't have to pay the bill). NOT propane heaters that burn inside like the Mr. Buddy heaters (They make a lot of heat, but produce so much moisture that you have to vent the van a LOT, or end up with a ton of condensation.

I second the caution regarding unvented propane heaters. In addition to rivers of moisture, unvented combustion will produce carbon monoxide that can kill you. I wouldn't worry about the propane tank itself, but it's worth checking all connections with a Q-tip doused in soapy water. If there's a leak, you'll see bubbles.

We used an unvented catalytic propane heater in our van for years, but we always had a window partially open. Kind of fights the goal of heating.

[Farm_or]

Almost every sheep hearder wagon that I've seen equipped for winter had some kind of small wood burning stove. That's probably the best long term solution.

Short term? Run the engine every few hours. Or some kind of catalytic heater. But at least invest in a CO detector. Many deaths of the quiet variety of people dealing with this problem...

[Ego]

I don't like the idea of having a 20 lb propane tank in the van obviously. It's like sleeping next to a bomb haha.

I second C40 point. On our long trip we had a catalytic heater but we rarely used it and we had the opportunity to open up the pop top and air out the van every day. The van we bought in London for our honeymoon came with a Propex heater installed already. The Propex is like a home forced air heater in that it dries out the condensation and it has a thermostat so it switches on and off as needed. Long-haul truckers use them to keep their cabs warm and dry when not running the engine. If I were living in a van longterm in a cold climate, I would consider a Propex heater a necessity.

We had this one....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxD9H6NDo8Y

The gas tank in the van is a much bigger bomb. I wouldn't worry about propane as long as a good plumber does the installation.

ETA: Another alternative is an Espar heater that runs off the gasoline or diesel from the fuel tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUKeprinFBI

VW offered these as an option on their camper way back when. They looked like this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJDqFds2MBU

[BeyondtheWrap]

I suggest not hanging out in your van if you don't have to. Have hobbies that involve spending time in heated buildings that you don't live in. Just use the van for sleep and storage.

[Gilberto de Piento]

There are a couple of suggestions here for buying a high end sleeping bag. This is a good solution but remember that part of what you are paying for in a sleeping bag is low weight and compressibility so you can hike with it.

You can get the same insulation from normal comforters (may need more than one though). Also, you can adapt the comforters for warmer temps. A -20 degree bag isnt going to work when it is 60 degrees.

Two more points: you can't have another person in a bag with you and low temp down bags take hours and hours to dry even at a laundromat so when it smells (because the shell is synthetic) it will be a pain to wash it.

All that said, I haven't lived in a van in winter so I have no practical experience in this area.

[Riggerjack]

On the CO issue, there have been deaths from overnight use of propane heater in tents. Let me say that again, tents. If your van isn't more air tight than a tent, then fixing that would be more important than adding a heater.

[Toska2]

There's also CO2 poisoning if you make it too air tight.

[C40]

First, if you run a propane heater in a van with all the windows closed, it's going to get hot as hell in there quickly. The windows are going to be dripping wet quickly. Generally, anyone who's not an idiot or passed out unconscious will shut off the heater long before there's a health risk. Zalo isn't an idiot. The ventilation requirements are clear in the heater manuals.


On Sleeping Bags, +1 to Gilberto. I use three blankets on cold nights in my van. Two of them cost $20 total. Up north, I'd be using one or two more. They're much more comfortable than a mummy sleeping bag.