given that most obese people fail to do it, either #1 is wrong or #2 is missing, or a combination.
for #1, it's not that these things are rocket surgery. but there are about 5 directions to go in, and many of them contradict each other completely. it's a bit like 5 people having 5 compasses that all point in different directions. it's not that directions are complex, but given that setup, it takes a lot of effort because of all the digging necessary and the trial & error involved to find something that works. brute is not sure what this constellation is called in the whole complex/complicated/confusing domain.
brute imagines #2 like an equilibrium between the desire to {look better naked,feel better,be able to tie shoes,wear beach clothes,get laid,..} and the desire to {eat icecream,eat cheez puffs,..}
things like Body Positivity can shift this equilibrium. humans are social creatures. if everyone else is fat and tells the individual that being fat is great, why would they change?
#1 & #2 are not independent either. for example, having a strategy that's clear and proven to work (for the individual, for friends,..) shifts the equilibrium, because the cost of losing fat is greatly reduced.
in brute's opinion it's the combination of the 2 factors that's preventing most humans to lose their fat. if there was just one clear, obvious way to lose fat, then it would just be priorities. but many humans do prioritize fat loss and fail, because they use strategies that don't work for them, or don't work period. and if it was super high on everybody's priority list, they'd eventually find the right way.
Thoughts on the Body Positivity Movement?
Re: Thoughts on the Body Positivity Movement?
I'm saying the main reason people are fat is that 2 is missing. That most have other priorities. Most people would like to be lean. Or they wish they were lean. Or they want themselves to get lean. But most don't want to get lean enough to actually do it. They want to eat ice cream*. Or they want to spend their time on other priorities (work, family, hobbies, helping others, etc. - some things that could be considered much more noble than being healthy themselves). I do think it's a shame that there is a lot of bullshit clouding up #1, but I still think a motivated person can figure it out within a few years.
* I love ice cream
* I love ice cream
Re: Thoughts on the Body Positivity Movement?
I think the body positivity movement is, idealistically, a great idea. Right in their wiki they say: "...encourages people to adopt more forgiving and affirming attitudes towards their bodies, with the goal of improving overall health and well-being". Who wouldn't get behind that! I also think the body positivity movement is, functionally, very bad for the health of its' adherents. This is mainly because the social acceptance of unhealthy choices is incredibly destructive, on average, to an individual's well-being, whether or not they "know better".
Imagine, if you will, a "nicotine addiction positivity movement". Seems kind of absurd, but no less absurd than a completely unforced obesity epidemic. Cake smells good and smoke smells bad?
Okay, moving on, first a little background: I'm a below-average-size, above-average-shape Michigander (by public perception). In reality I'm RIGHT on the line between normal weight and overweight, BMI is 24.5, height 5'10"ish, weight 175lb-ish. I used to be obese back in highschool, but I managed to kick my own ass, shortly after graduation, hard enough to drop from 245 to 160 in 3-4 months other the summer. This was achieved by consuming roughly 300-400 calories per day while running on a treadmill for an hour every other day. Super unhealthy way to go about the thing in retrospect but I was young, wanted to get laid and I hated being fat. So, I lost weight rather than make excuses for why I was fat and slow and unhealthy and unhappy. Why did I hate being fat?
I have a fat family and a "normal" family. Each sample size is between 25-40 individuals. One is my dad's side (fat side) and one is my mom's side (normal side)
Fat family: average BMI of 40-50 if I had to guess. You can count on one hand the adults who are not obese/morbidly obsese. You can count on TWO hands the number of small children (between ages 5-12) who are already overweight and showing signs of very unhealthy eating habits. When this family talks about health and fitness, the extremely obese tend to massively overestimate their personal condition. You hear 350lb individuals say things along the lines of "Yeah I should probably lose 20-30 pounds and get back in shape"... No, you need to lose 120-160lbs and get back in shape. Family gatherings are uncomfortable for the normal-sized people thanks to comments such as "Why don't you put some meat on those bones?! It looks like you're going to starve to death!" Or worse, when a parent gets a comment from an elder such as "You didn't even get little Jimmy a full plate of food! Why don't you feed that boy?" (Little jimmy is already overweight for his age... and sedentary). Or, my all-time least favorite "Finish your whole plate of dinner before you can have desert!!!".
When fat family members reach age 60-65, they start talking like they only have a few years left to live. Oftentimes this is true. Fat family members tend to die in their early 70's. I love most of my fat family, and it is very very saddening to see them die young due to avoidable self-destruction.
Normal family: average BMI of 22ish. Most grew up on the family farm to some degree, and have an intuitive understanding of the value of vegetables and a healthy diet. You can count on one hand the number of obese individuals. You can count using your bellybutton the number of overweight individuals under the age of 18. When this family talks about health and fitness, the elders will tend to coach/mentor the few obese individuals with tips to improve their general level of health. The correct-weight individuals underestimate their personal condition by saying "yeah I should probably lose 10-15 pounds and get back in shape"... No, your weight is fine, you just need to be more active and less sedentary. Family gatherings are MUCH more comfortable for the normal-sized people thanks to a lack of comments about how much is being eaten. The over-sized people don't get any negative comments (just the unsolicited coaching mentioned earlier), but it is plain that they feel very uncomfortable being outliers, physically. This level of discomfort has arguably contributed to a few family members (myself included) to go through radical down-sizing at one point or another.
When normal family members reach age 75-80, they start talking like they only have a few years left to live. Though, in this family the only funerals I've been to so far have been for great aunts and uncles well into their 90's. I love most of my normal family and I am very happy to see them make good healthy life choices on average.
Should shame be employed as a tool to try and affect the behavior of somebody you care about? I don't know. I constantly tease/harass my pack-a-day mother-in-law (in good humor, for both of us) that the wife and I won't start having kids until she stops smoking. I poke fun at my dad's big belly and tell him he needs to go on jogs with me. He's lost 20lbs so far this year, with about another 30 planned for next year (thanks to diet, mostly). I'm proud of him.
One thing I know for sure: if something is socially unacceptable, the passive pressure to not do that thing is MUCH more powerful than the temporary active pressure of one individual shaming another individual. People will tend to do what their immediate social group deems is "acceptable". I don't think any social group should make obesity or morbid obesity "acceptable". For the obese demographic, I think there shouldn't be much of a difference between smoking cigarettes and eating cake.
Imagine, if you will, a "nicotine addiction positivity movement". Seems kind of absurd, but no less absurd than a completely unforced obesity epidemic. Cake smells good and smoke smells bad?
Okay, moving on, first a little background: I'm a below-average-size, above-average-shape Michigander (by public perception). In reality I'm RIGHT on the line between normal weight and overweight, BMI is 24.5, height 5'10"ish, weight 175lb-ish. I used to be obese back in highschool, but I managed to kick my own ass, shortly after graduation, hard enough to drop from 245 to 160 in 3-4 months other the summer. This was achieved by consuming roughly 300-400 calories per day while running on a treadmill for an hour every other day. Super unhealthy way to go about the thing in retrospect but I was young, wanted to get laid and I hated being fat. So, I lost weight rather than make excuses for why I was fat and slow and unhealthy and unhappy. Why did I hate being fat?
I have a fat family and a "normal" family. Each sample size is between 25-40 individuals. One is my dad's side (fat side) and one is my mom's side (normal side)
Fat family: average BMI of 40-50 if I had to guess. You can count on one hand the adults who are not obese/morbidly obsese. You can count on TWO hands the number of small children (between ages 5-12) who are already overweight and showing signs of very unhealthy eating habits. When this family talks about health and fitness, the extremely obese tend to massively overestimate their personal condition. You hear 350lb individuals say things along the lines of "Yeah I should probably lose 20-30 pounds and get back in shape"... No, you need to lose 120-160lbs and get back in shape. Family gatherings are uncomfortable for the normal-sized people thanks to comments such as "Why don't you put some meat on those bones?! It looks like you're going to starve to death!" Or worse, when a parent gets a comment from an elder such as "You didn't even get little Jimmy a full plate of food! Why don't you feed that boy?" (Little jimmy is already overweight for his age... and sedentary). Or, my all-time least favorite "Finish your whole plate of dinner before you can have desert!!!".
When fat family members reach age 60-65, they start talking like they only have a few years left to live. Oftentimes this is true. Fat family members tend to die in their early 70's. I love most of my fat family, and it is very very saddening to see them die young due to avoidable self-destruction.
Normal family: average BMI of 22ish. Most grew up on the family farm to some degree, and have an intuitive understanding of the value of vegetables and a healthy diet. You can count on one hand the number of obese individuals. You can count using your bellybutton the number of overweight individuals under the age of 18. When this family talks about health and fitness, the elders will tend to coach/mentor the few obese individuals with tips to improve their general level of health. The correct-weight individuals underestimate their personal condition by saying "yeah I should probably lose 10-15 pounds and get back in shape"... No, your weight is fine, you just need to be more active and less sedentary. Family gatherings are MUCH more comfortable for the normal-sized people thanks to a lack of comments about how much is being eaten. The over-sized people don't get any negative comments (just the unsolicited coaching mentioned earlier), but it is plain that they feel very uncomfortable being outliers, physically. This level of discomfort has arguably contributed to a few family members (myself included) to go through radical down-sizing at one point or another.
When normal family members reach age 75-80, they start talking like they only have a few years left to live. Though, in this family the only funerals I've been to so far have been for great aunts and uncles well into their 90's. I love most of my normal family and I am very happy to see them make good healthy life choices on average.
Should shame be employed as a tool to try and affect the behavior of somebody you care about? I don't know. I constantly tease/harass my pack-a-day mother-in-law (in good humor, for both of us) that the wife and I won't start having kids until she stops smoking. I poke fun at my dad's big belly and tell him he needs to go on jogs with me. He's lost 20lbs so far this year, with about another 30 planned for next year (thanks to diet, mostly). I'm proud of him.
One thing I know for sure: if something is socially unacceptable, the passive pressure to not do that thing is MUCH more powerful than the temporary active pressure of one individual shaming another individual. People will tend to do what their immediate social group deems is "acceptable". I don't think any social group should make obesity or morbid obesity "acceptable". For the obese demographic, I think there shouldn't be much of a difference between smoking cigarettes and eating cake.
Re: Thoughts on the Body Positivity Movement?
The funny thing is that there are probably at least as many slender people who have negative body image as obese people who have positive body image.
Studies have shown that average weight freshman college students who have obese roommates who are actively dieting are less likely to gain weight than those who have slender roommates who eat more. So, it is the behavior in the moment, rather than the appearance due to prior behavior that is critical. I think this is true because it has been my experience that when I am frequently sharing meals with somebody who holds the opinion that I might be "even hawter if I lost 10 lbs.", it is not their opinion , or their current BMI'/fitness that influences me as much as how much they actually eat while in my presence. IOW, it has been my experience that unless I am very conscious about making different choices, I will naturally tend towards gaining weight if I share most of my meals with a man who is 6'2'" 195 lbs. and works out quite frequently. IOW, I have to do the opposite of what was philosophically suggested in the book "Fat is a Feminist Issue."
Studies have shown that average weight freshman college students who have obese roommates who are actively dieting are less likely to gain weight than those who have slender roommates who eat more. So, it is the behavior in the moment, rather than the appearance due to prior behavior that is critical. I think this is true because it has been my experience that when I am frequently sharing meals with somebody who holds the opinion that I might be "even hawter if I lost 10 lbs.", it is not their opinion , or their current BMI'/fitness that influences me as much as how much they actually eat while in my presence. IOW, it has been my experience that unless I am very conscious about making different choices, I will naturally tend towards gaining weight if I share most of my meals with a man who is 6'2'" 195 lbs. and works out quite frequently. IOW, I have to do the opposite of what was philosophically suggested in the book "Fat is a Feminist Issue."