I went to Sea World!

[Sclass]

So I got talked into going to Sea World yesterday. As I was sitting back like a zombie getting overstimulated I started to wonder why I wasn't into the whole thing.

I mean what is not to like? Dolphins and Orcas dancing around and breaching. Trapeze artists doing tricks. Riding big machines for views of the San Diego area. Being offered sugar, fat and salt all rolled into one meal. Scantily clad moms 360 deg around me (it was a warm day). Very polite teenage employees making sure I was happy. Tank after tanks of exotic marine life that I would never see in the wild. It made me ooh and ahh a bit while walking through a transparent tunnel with sharks above.

So why was I bored with it. Why ho hum? Besides feeling a little bad for the animals with droopy dorsal fins. Wasn't this paradise for the senses? Lotsa sights sounds for only $55 (apparently they've hit hard times and enticed us with a low price).

While on the gondola it came to me in a flash. I'm not into this because the only thing I had to do was open my wallet and sit back and enjoy. Worse, I was surround by a bunch of vapid folks who were bent on doing the same thing. I had this vision of an SClass ancestor in Ancient Rome yawning "ho hum" at a gladiator fight. I actually felt kind of guilty not enjoying the barrels of oil being burned for my viewing pleasure. "Stop wasting this energy (super cold in the polar exhibit) I'm not digging this! Turn all this shit off before you become the only place that has marine life!"

I had a long past mentor who used to use the line when describing something she valued as "money alone cannot buy this." I get it. Money alone can get me a seat on the tram at sea world. Money a lone can get me to London to see the Crown Jewels while riding by on a rolling floor.

Money alone couldn't catch some elusive steelhead in a stream behind my house (love those stories here). I guess you could go on one of those sick fishing or hunting tours where they set an animal free in the bushes and you get to shoot it and if you miss you can corner it at the chain link fence surrounding the amusement park. Maybe they have one for lame fishermen with scuba divers who hook a fish and tug on the line.

I even got more satisfaction drinking beers and fixing an HVAC system with a pal last month.

There was something about working for the fun and the risk reward involved. Sea World just didn't do it for me. Though I love whale watching all afternoon at the beach, I just didn't get off on some smiling orca clapping its pectoral fins. It was kind of sickening watching all the people laugh and cheer at these sights.

I'm posting it here because I like to read about all these cool things y'all do here that fall into the work for it entertainment category. The elusive fish. The epic bike ride. Capsizing a boat into cold water. Building a house. Digging the dumpster for cash. Growing a garden that you can eat. Having a mutually exciting sexual connection with the love of your today.

Thanks for sharing. I think I just got lazy yesterday. I almost forgot what I liked so much about being alive.

I think I'll get up and head out to the local rummage sale and hunt for a deal on something broken that I might be able to fix. That works for me.

[ducknalddon]

I bet your fellow visitors were really glad they took you along.

[Dragline]

In my best Homer Simpson voice: "Mmmmmm - ORCA!"

[jacob]

Ha! I'd love to see a trip report from Six Flags

(I had a similar experience when I visited the Shedd Aquarium. Bunch of fish, mostly, in glass cages. Tons of people. Apparently "family fun" is a euphemism for "Hell on Earth". I didn't even have to pay (aquariums, which all their life support systems, are really expensive to operate compared to e.g. museums... not like the power/lights are turned off during closing hours either) because I know one of the volunteers there. Interestingly, as far as I understood, the [arctic?] otter exhibit was one of the most if not the most expensive operation there. Reason, otters consume a lot of calories to keep warm ... constantly fluffing their fur. Kinda crazy ...)

I think it's part personality-type and part value-orientation. It's not just doing vs seeing. Rather, I think, that's more where the combination of ERE+INTJ intersects when compared to the mass offerings of S*-type + consumer preferences.

I enjoy "seeing" some things. Indeed, I've noticed that I enjoy seeing certain things much more than the average person. Specifically, I could stare at this for hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKM6XTvBhxA ... really, just stare... something that would result in my more "normal" friends and family eventually dragging me away to go and get some "ice cream" ... something that I wouldn't eat, because I just ate 8 hours ago and sugary dairy just means nothing to me. (Why don't people go for "chili peppers" instead of ice cream?!?)

And working for it definitely makes a difference for other things. https://www.grousemountain.com/grousegrind by foot (takes about an hour for non-potatoes ... runners can do it in 30-40 mins) ... nice! Taking the gondola up .. pfffft! How would you even know it's a mountain then? BTW, if you walk up, the ride down is free

So I think such impressions need to be somewhat compatible with how one sees and interacts with the world in order to be exciting.

Unfortunately, the combination of ERE (values) and INTJ (personality) is incompatible with most things out there being targeted at sensate consumerist frameworks. I bet if you wrote up a list of 50 common favourite activities, I would put the average top 5 ("eating out", "shopping", "going to bars", "concerts", "going to the X museum") near my bottom 5. And vice versa.

We've mostly solved the problem by not insisting on the traditional rule of doing everything together. We did that in the first few years. I went to watch the newest superhero movie only to end up checking my watch every five minutes for the last two hours. We went to restaurants with me getting increasingly frustrated with the process "I don't care that you have 54 different beers on your card. Just give me one of whatever you sell the most of, or whatever". Conversely, we'd go on 8 mile uphill hikes that often ended up in some kind of death march for one of us. And so on and so forth ... Point being, this problem has been effectively solved by finally admitting/learning that for person X, it holds that activities of set !X are 99% likely to suck, and if they do suck, then bringing X along is just going to make it suck for everybody else involved too. Therefore, we've learned to say "I know this is not for me, so I'm not going" to each other.

[cmonkey]

Therefore, we've learned to say "I know this is not for me, so I'm not going" to each other.

What sorts of things do you do together then?

This would absolutely not work with my DW for larger things like going out/going to places. Around the house we seem pretty alright with hanging out in separate areas, although she will get quite antsy for my attention eventually.


As for the the whole Sea World / { insert whatever consumer theme park } I whole heartedly agree. Somehow part of me "wants" to like it, but I just can't. Once I am there it only takes 20 minutes and I want to go. The last one I went to was the Minnesota State Fair a few years after we got married ( DW loves state fairs ) and I was extremely cranky the entire time.

Now the Shedd Aquarium!! I've been there, and that I would enjoy because at least there is some geeky/learned appeal. Not just 100 different sugar/carb treats in different forms and 10 different rides to subsequently make me hurl them up.

[Sclass]

I bet your fellow visitors were really glad they took you along.

Yep. I paid. Tickets, transportation and three meals for all three of them. Bringing Scrooge mcduck a long has its perks.

Rummage sale was good. Rushed to a farmers market at closing and scored some last minute deals on produce while the vendors were breaking the stalls down. Nice day.

[Ego]

While on the gondola it came to me in a flash. I'm not into this because the only thing I had to do was open my wallet and sit back and enjoy. Worse, I was surround by a bunch of vapid folks who were bent on doing the same thing. I had this vision of an SClass ancestor in Ancient Rome yawning "ho hum" at a gladiator fight.

Flash of insight on a gondola. Hah!

Lately I've been trying to use these gondola moments to get curious about why everyone around me is deriving pleasure from something. Some answers are more obvious than others.

Paul Bloom has a book I recently reserved at the library, How Pleasure Works
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/books ... .html?_r=0

Bloom’s ideas go against the traditional view of pleasure as purely sensory: that is, that we get pleasure from food because of how it tastes, from music because of how it sounds, from art because of how it looks. The sensory explanation is only partially true, he writes. “Pleasure is affected by deeper factors, including what the person thinks about the true essence of what he or she is getting pleasure from.”

And, of course, a Ted Talk...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPicL1AWrs8

[7Wannabe5]

I agree that Sea World is kind of the tofu hot dog of the amusement park world. OTOH, a number of years ago, I broke down and took my kids to Universal Studios on their spring vacation. I expected to be completely bored and grouchy about the expenditure, but it turns out that 3-D virtual reality rides are like crack for me. Also, I've always enjoyed any kind of roller coaster that crashes into water. However, I would prefer jumping into Lake Huron just before a storm for a similar thrill. I almost jumped off a high pier into Lake Michigan this week, but my companion was emitting a running commentary along the lines of "Why aren't you wearing your shoes?", "Don't climb on those boulders!" , You don't even have your bathing suit on." etc. etc., so I behaved myself (sigh.)

I think what Paul Bloom says is true, but it can go both ways. As NTs, we are quite capable of informing ourselves of what we should or shouldn't be enjoying, versus simply noticing whether or not something truly is sensually enjoyable in the moment. So, I try to stay open-minded. For instance, I recently attempted to release all prior prejudices and with "fresh eyes" determine whether or not it may be true that playing a popular video game (an activity I've previously been very "Green Eggs and Ham" about) could be more enjoyable than engaging in sexual activity with an attractive partner (an activity upon which I am, perhaps, a bit too dependent for pleasure, given that it requires some level of social interaction with another human.) It turns out that I enjoy playing at Star Wars Angry Birds much more than I expected given my prior prejudices, and I have completed 78 levels in the last 10 days.

[enigmaT120]

... than engaging in sexual activity with an attractive partner (an activity upon which I am, perhaps, a bit too dependent for pleasure, given that it requires some level of social interaction with another human.)....

I wonder if it's easier for men to deal with that solo, than for women. No way for me to know. I'm not saying it's preferable by any means, but it's simpler to arrange.

[7Wannabe5]

enigmaT120 said: I wonder if it's easier for men to deal with that solo, than for women. No way for me to know. I'm not saying it's preferable by any means, but it's simpler to arrange.

Well, on the mechanical level I would say it's just as easy. I think I mastered that skill set by age 12. Translating it to interactions with another human a few years later took me a few attempts, but wasn't all that difficult either. I think the problem is more like solo is boring because stupid-easy, and finding an attractive partner(s) is quite easy too, but maintaining a partner eventually becomes difficult in a boring way. Like you have to climb more and more stairs, and wait in longer and longer lines, and pay more and more for a ticket to take the same amusement park ride you have already taken 1000 times before. Of course, I am likely less romantic than most representatives of my gender, so grain of salt.

[Sclass]

Paul Bloom has a book I recently reserved at the library, How Pleasure Works
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/books ... .html?_r=0

And, of course, a Ted Talk...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPicL1AWrs8

I own this book. I put it down after it scared me. The first few chapters convinced me I'm a few base pairs from a chimp who prefers the "crack" button over the "food" button. I just couldn't admit that I am that simple inside. Sad.

7- that reminds me of some epic surf days as a child in LA. A group of my pals would go out in winter during tropical storms to avoid the hostile local boyz. We'd have the sea all to ourselves and there would be warm sea water under the rain fall. Now that was a thrill.

[Eureka]

Sclass, so you did not even notice the sad collapsed dorsal fins of the orcas?

[jacob]

@Eureka - That's depressing. In polite company (can't bring me anywhere) I usually refer to zoos as "animal prison" and comment that what we see here is a particularly naughty giraffe, etc! It would actually be more interesting to go _see_ some of the human prisoners where people are locked up because they either committed a crime or simply find themselves in an office with too many bills to sustain from not working. Contrast and compare. Human zoos ... I'd go to those ones as a spectator.

[Ego]

@Eureka - That's depressing. In polite company (can't bring me anywhere) I usually refer to zoos as "animal prison" and comment that what we see here is a particularly naughty giraffe, etc!

I agree.... but it begs the question.... What about pets? Where is the distinction? A few animals for the enjoyment of many humans vs. one animal for the enjoyment of one or two humans?

Maybe I am seeing a skewed version of pet ownership in my current place, but two leashed fifteen minute speed walks a day seems cruel. Actually human prisoners get to spend more time outside than any of the dogs I see here. My office is next to the front door. The constant coaxing/dragging/scolding to get the dogs back through the door and into the building says it all for me.

Can't take me anywhere.

WRT human zoos....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo

Most packaged tourism in Africa has a cultural component that really isn't all that different from the human zoos of yesteryear. I began to feel extremely uncomfortable with my own reactions.... "Get a picture of the zebra nursing her young." "Ooooh, look, get a picture of that woman carrying the water on her head and the baby on her back."

It is scary how easily we can dehumanize humans and (with practice) attribute human characteristics to pets.

[jennypenny]

Not everyone treats their pets that way. Mine live under the same house rules as the people as far as nutrition, exercise, fun time, etc. Maybe I feel differently because I rescued mine from worse conditions?

I can't do zoos or seaworld. I've always wanted to do one of those swim with the dolphin things so I could get close to them, but I know it would just make me cry. I feel bad enough when we go whale stalking on one of those boats.

[jacob]

@Ego - Actually, I think our [pet] dog spends more time outside than I do. None of us have that much of an inclination. Maybe those dogs in your complex don't want to go outside, eh? Speaking of attributing human characteristics to pet, a rule of thumb is that dogs are/behave much like their owners---their temperament isn't that far removed from their "owners"(*). Much like children, with few exceptions, I suppose ...

(I'm also aware of how pets are often treated as things/entertainment/status symbols. Mostly by how certain family members tend to rescue every pet they can get their hands on from people who see them as such. The descriptions on the pet stores often mention how previous owners just left the pets behind whenever the pet became inconvenient to them because of career, finances, etc.)

There's definitely a dimension going from "practically family" to "utility animal". Dogs to the left, aquarium fish and lizards in the middle, pigs to the right.

(*) Speaking of the relation between DW and Frank, I'm never quite sure who owns who.

[Ego]

@Ego - Actually, I think our [pet] dog spends more time outside than I do. None of us have that much of an inclination. Maybe those dogs in your complex don't want to go outside, eh?

Actually the dogs don't want to go back into the building. They are digging in their heels on the way in but are dragging their owners on the way out.

Your dog spends time outside, but is it in a yard? Maybe it's me but yard dogs seem to me to be very much like zoo animals. Orca in a tank.

We live a few hundred yards from the off-leash area of the park. To see dogs in that large gated area, it is as if they are different animals.

A few weeks ago a medium sized dog escaped and bolted about a mile down our street toward the cruise ship terminal without looking back. The frantic owner chased him down the hill in high heels screaming his name. I thought to myself, "Run Forest run."

ETA.... I've been hesitate to post this one but I think it fits well here.

http://www.livescience.com/6141-real-re ... eople.html

When dealing with something unpredictable — a computer on the fritz, a sour economy — we might feel totally disconnected. "One way to make sense of it is to treat it like something familiar, which is the human form," Waytz told LiveScience.

Loneliness is another driver of anthropomorphism. When Waytz told study participants that psychological testing showed their social outlook to be bleak, he found that they were more likely to describe God as a friend and attribute human qualities like thoughtfulness to their pets.

"We have this need to belong and to affiliate," Waytz said. "When people are deprived of connections with other humans, they'll form connections with non-humans through anthropomorphism."

[jacob]

@Ego - It depends on the dog. Our dog (you've seen him, small couch-potato pug) goes outside, then flops down to sunbathe. In dog parks we just wanders around and pisses on close trees. Not the same as a working dog which would go nuts in that environment. Different strokes for different dogs.

But yes, I see your point. There are certainly many dogs (and many humans) who are kept in conditions are that incompatible with their nature.

[jennypenny]

Yeah, but Forest will get picked up by animal control and put down if no one claims him. It's not like dogs are allowed to roam free and we're locking them up. Mine (pit bulls) aren't even allowed in the town's dog park.

[7Wannabe5]