Are you Happy?
Re: Are you Happy?
Coming back to the meta-question of ‘Happiness’. Many have tried to answer the question “How to be happy in life”. And many came to a conclusion that Siefmund Freud coined as “Lieben und Arbeiten” (to love and to work).
Lieben - have people around you that you love and who love you. To be more specific - partner, family, friends and some community.
Arbeiten - have a meaningfull work. Meaningfull means - something you’re good at, something that is usefull for others and something that others are willing to pay for*. Books like The Flow and Strenghtfinder 2.0 should help you on your journey.
Oh, and the climax is obviously to work with people you love.
*How does ERE fit into this? Usually the Flow jobs are not paid well, so you have to spend some time in a ‘Bullshit job’ (http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/) that is paying well till you hit the FI/ close to FI number. Then you can choose a meaningfull job.
To your question if you should try and find a more challenging job.
As Jacob and others mentioned it is difficult to find a job where you can do what you enjoy most od the time. There is usually a ‘boss’ who has a different oppinion on how things should be done. A better idea is to CREATE a job you will love. Beeing FI/ close to FI makes this transition much easier. Btw people think that work means only when you go to a 9-5 job. It isn’t. Most of the things you do on daily basis could be transitioned to a meaningfull job if you enjoy them.
Hope this helps.
Lieben - have people around you that you love and who love you. To be more specific - partner, family, friends and some community.
Arbeiten - have a meaningfull work. Meaningfull means - something you’re good at, something that is usefull for others and something that others are willing to pay for*. Books like The Flow and Strenghtfinder 2.0 should help you on your journey.
Oh, and the climax is obviously to work with people you love.
*How does ERE fit into this? Usually the Flow jobs are not paid well, so you have to spend some time in a ‘Bullshit job’ (http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/) that is paying well till you hit the FI/ close to FI number. Then you can choose a meaningfull job.
To your question if you should try and find a more challenging job.
As Jacob and others mentioned it is difficult to find a job where you can do what you enjoy most od the time. There is usually a ‘boss’ who has a different oppinion on how things should be done. A better idea is to CREATE a job you will love. Beeing FI/ close to FI makes this transition much easier. Btw people think that work means only when you go to a 9-5 job. It isn’t. Most of the things you do on daily basis could be transitioned to a meaningfull job if you enjoy them.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by TomPie on Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you Happy?
There is some research indicating we all have an innate level of happiness and that even large changes in your life though impactful at first eventually you return to your base level happiness. This even goes so far as people that come in to large sums of money and people who experience great misfortune such as losing a limb.
At first it has a large impact on their reported level of happiness, but over time they drift back to their originally reported level.
Now you can either keep doing things to raise your level which is probably a large part of what drives consumerism. People feel slightly happier after their new purchase, they return back to their base level and as such to regain the higher level of happiness they feel the need to consume more.
I think a big part of traveling the FIRE/ERE path is reconciling yourself with this and avoiding getting on that path.
At first it has a large impact on their reported level of happiness, but over time they drift back to their originally reported level.
Now you can either keep doing things to raise your level which is probably a large part of what drives consumerism. People feel slightly happier after their new purchase, they return back to their base level and as such to regain the higher level of happiness they feel the need to consume more.
I think a big part of traveling the FIRE/ERE path is reconciling yourself with this and avoiding getting on that path.
Re: Are you Happy?
I am glad we cleared that up. t'was a source of great confusion for many of us.
Potato potato...
Don't fool yourself. Please. The vast majority of the ER community has simply substituted their consumerism with frugality and are now hanging their personalities on a very small, frugal peg, rather than a large consumerist peg.I think a big part of traveling the FIRE/ERE path is reconciling yourself with this and avoiding getting on that path.
Potato potato...
Re: Are you Happy?
Funny. My friend, thebigblackholeofdespair, answers the same way whenever he is asked the question.
Re: Are you Happy?
Back to original question - great question btw. The assumption doesnt stack up with me - I never started ERE out of a belief it will make me more happy. TBH I think it was more a fear based reaction at the outset at the horror of being trapped in jobs under the chains of debt without the option to leave them if they become undesirable. As time gone by it has however become more opportunity focused and excitement at such opportunities.
I havent retired early - am still on the pathway - so cant comment on being happier post retirement - would love to hear from those who are though. In terms of being happier while pursuing the pathway of FI - I guess I dont think of it in terms of happiness. But what I do experience is a greater sense of freedom; options, leverage and an absence of any financial stress. So I guess you might say those are happiness related feelings. I now set and execute my dreams and plans and they are achievable because of personal finance. Im able to now plan and execute my dreams now without worrying too much whether I cant because I will be forced to work in a specific job.
In terms of how long I have lived at my decreased spending level - not particularly long as my expense level is continually decreasing over time so it keeps shrinking and my income keeps increasing. But I have been actively pursuing FI for about 3.5 years and very frugality focused but not consciously pursuing FI for about 5 years.
I havent retired early - am still on the pathway - so cant comment on being happier post retirement - would love to hear from those who are though. In terms of being happier while pursuing the pathway of FI - I guess I dont think of it in terms of happiness. But what I do experience is a greater sense of freedom; options, leverage and an absence of any financial stress. So I guess you might say those are happiness related feelings. I now set and execute my dreams and plans and they are achievable because of personal finance. Im able to now plan and execute my dreams now without worrying too much whether I cant because I will be forced to work in a specific job.
In terms of how long I have lived at my decreased spending level - not particularly long as my expense level is continually decreasing over time so it keeps shrinking and my income keeps increasing. But I have been actively pursuing FI for about 3.5 years and very frugality focused but not consciously pursuing FI for about 5 years.
Last edited by thrifty++ on Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you Happy?
Re: Are you Happy?
No, because my BF left, I dropped a window sash on my finger, and I need to go on a diet.
Re:
Am I happy? Yes.
Am I happier now than before? Yes.
That doesn't automatically mean, that I wasn't happy before.
Although I would describe my happiness more as a contentedness. I am very satisfied with my life. I periodically review my subjective satisfaction with my life. It is at (around) 81% out of 100%.
Of course it (happiness) is different than before pursuing ERE. Before I found out about FIRE/ERE I had been spending between 10 to 18 thousands annually. For 2 years now, I am spending more like 6 to 8 thousand annually.
So why am I happier than before? First of all I learnt more efficient and productive ways to satisfy my needs and wants, e.g. doing cheaper hobbies, Web-of-goals, etc. Second of all, I found out about minimalism, simple living, etc. and therefore reduced the number of things I own. That increased my happiness. Thirdly, I feel more freedom and independence in my life, because there are more options and possibilities than before. Last but not least, I am working (saving) towards FI/FF/ER, which gives me a very positive feeling.
Money is not the only aspect. A second and important aspect is also my personality. I learnt so many things/skills/ways of thinking due to ERE. I am much more aware and self-reflected. ERE and the way I life now is much nearer to my personal nature. It is different than before. Before I found out about ERE, especially in my 20s, I had been living a lifestyle of other people. I lived by the goals of other people, society, ... more like by an "outer scorecard". In comparison to that I live by an "inner scorecard" nowadays, as Warren Buffett recommends to do so.
So overall: Yes, I am happier than before, also (or because of) at a lower expense level.
Re: Are you Happy?
I'm pretty content. Happiness is 8/10 or so.
The other 2 is my JOB and even that is not so bad. Part of a large motivation for early retirement is to just sleep in everyday.
The other 2 is my JOB and even that is not so bad. Part of a large motivation for early retirement is to just sleep in everyday.
Re: Are you Happy?
I guess I'm not entirely happy. Maybe 8/10. But I haven't found what that 2/10 is yet. Maybe when my kid grows up it'll be 10/10 then.
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Re: Are you Happy?
I don't think I'm really much happier (maybe a little? - like 8/10 compared to 7/10 before FIRE).
Having said that, I think this question is missing something important - but I can't quite put my finger on what exactly.
Humans get used to whatever environment they find themselves in, to a large extent - the popular story of lottery winners and recent quadriplegics apparently both bouncing back near their prior happiness levels within a year or two.
But... clearly none of us here would voluntarily choose to become a quadriplegic (I hope). And likely many of us wouldn't turn down a prize of $10m. So while it may be common that people say they're not really more happy after FIRE (or only slightly), clearly we all prefer it, and prefer it quite strongly, than before.
I personally cannot imagine going back into the rat race and getting another corporate drone job. Not in a million years and not for a million $. So clearly our subjective rating of happiness levels isn't capturing the full extent of our preferences and general life satisfaction.
Having said that, I think this question is missing something important - but I can't quite put my finger on what exactly.
Humans get used to whatever environment they find themselves in, to a large extent - the popular story of lottery winners and recent quadriplegics apparently both bouncing back near their prior happiness levels within a year or two.
But... clearly none of us here would voluntarily choose to become a quadriplegic (I hope). And likely many of us wouldn't turn down a prize of $10m. So while it may be common that people say they're not really more happy after FIRE (or only slightly), clearly we all prefer it, and prefer it quite strongly, than before.
I personally cannot imagine going back into the rat race and getting another corporate drone job. Not in a million years and not for a million $. So clearly our subjective rating of happiness levels isn't capturing the full extent of our preferences and general life satisfaction.
Re: Are you Happy?
Very good points raised here. I need someone to scare me into, do you really need to spend money on this unnecessary coffee + sweet thing? Cause that’s how you end up having to go back to work. By spending money on unnecessary things. And no, it doesn’t matter how happy it’s making you right now.
Re: Are you Happy?
This 'happiness' course I took is relevant here @onewayfamily. Basically I learned two concepts burned into my brain from ''The Science of Well-Being' (offered free on Coursera I believe; by Yale). Savoring and Gratitude. So in your example, if you're bored/not feeling well, I would savor the fact that I'm not at a corporate desk job stuck preparing for a stressful meeting. Sort of like visioning yourself in a different scenario (a scenario you were in before) and having gratitude for the fact that you aren't stuck there now.
In doing this savor/gratitude exercise, one brings themself to a more present moment. I do this whenever my job is sucking and I remember back when I was commuting 3 hour one way (in 2015) or 90 minutes just earlier this year....
In doing this savor/gratitude exercise, one brings themself to a more present moment. I do this whenever my job is sucking and I remember back when I was commuting 3 hour one way (in 2015) or 90 minutes just earlier this year....
Re: Are you Happy?
@Lemur: I think I do some version of this especially after some bit of physical irritation. Like I will think for days afterwards how glad I am that I don't have any itchy mosquito bites anymore or that the cankersore in my mouth is healed.
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Re: Are you Happy?
If you want to savour things more the obvious way is to go without them for a while. I'm sure I enjoy strawberries more because I don't eat them out of season. A while back I threw out my old slippers and didn't replace them for a month, it's interesting how much I took them for granted. I have a whole new appreciation for a simple piece of clothing.
@ertyu If you are worried about your bank balance then coffee and cakes are cheap to make at home. It gets harder if the problem is lack of social interaction rather than the expense.
@ertyu If you are worried about your bank balance then coffee and cakes are cheap to make at home. It gets harder if the problem is lack of social interaction rather than the expense.
Re: Are you Happy?
not so much social interaction, i just really enjoy being at a coffee shop with my laptop and puttering around on the internet or in a word file. There's an element of parallel play I have not managed to capture elsewhere. I do want to eliminate caffeine because I want to see if it would result in improved sleep and thus improved depression (I do fall asleep alright, but people on the internet say you still don't sleep as deeply if you are a regular coffee drinker). Corona might help, paradoxically - during fall/winter, you would probably -not- want to be hanging out with others for long periods in an enclosed space.
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Re: Are you Happy?
@ertyu - something relevant I recently came across: https://twitter.com/simonsarris/status/ ... 33474?s=20
"I drank coffee at cafes every single day for at least 2-3 years. I met tons of people this way, including cafe owners, 4 future roommates, the mayor, my wife, most of my friends, a lady who I later rented from, etc.
The opportunity is staggering. Highly recommended."
"I drank coffee at cafes every single day for at least 2-3 years. I met tons of people this way, including cafe owners, 4 future roommates, the mayor, my wife, most of my friends, a lady who I later rented from, etc.
The opportunity is staggering. Highly recommended."