Alcohol moderation

[henrik]

Consider that whatever you spend on alcohol right now, if you can take a break and stay sober for 15 years, you can then go on and drink for free forever (7% return, 4% WR).
All this being written with a beer in hand..

[Did]

But is a paid beer in the hand now worth more than unlimited free beers in 15 years time?

[jacob]

Homebrew is definitely not the way to moderation. It's the way to cheap alcohol that's practically on tap. Taking advantages of sales/bulk buying on juice concentrates and sugar, I can make about 4.5 gallons of strong wine for $12. That's about the equivalent of buying 100 cans of beer for ten bucks. It has definitely increased my alcohol intake compared to the time when alcohol was something I had to pay real money for and which required real [shopping] effort to acquire.

[Ego]

I like applying curiosity (or the Socratic method) to questions like this. It is often not until the third or fourth-order answers that I get to the meat of the issue.

Why am I drinking this right now?

"Because it feels good."

Why? .....

It is amazing how many of the things we take for granted as human nature are actually learned behaviors.

[henrik]

But is a paid beer in the hand now worth more than unlimited free beers in 15 years time?

That is the roughly 30K € question, isn't it...

[C40]

Do not, do not, DO NOT drink alcohol as am attempt to deal with stress. There's a nasty downward spiral that can start.

I recently learned that a close friend of mine, who has drank way too much over the last 15 years has ruined his liver and may need a transplant to survive. Yikes! I drink very little and I didn't really need it, but that's a strong motivator to drink only in moderation.

[7Wannabe5]

The obvious solution is to just reverse the ratio of sex to alcohol towards moderation. Dessert could also be thrown in the mix for those of us who do not have a tendency towards drinking very much.

[GandK]

@jennyoenny when I said Irish I meant irish from Ireland. I don't know any irish from America - although I've assumed that is what you mean when you say you're Irish.

LOL. Tangent, but this is a common misunderstanding when Americans communicate with people from other countries about our heritage. G and I tripped over it when we started bumming around Europe a decade ago. Someone who lives in North America and says "I'm Scottish" almost always means "my ancestors were from Scotland," not "I am from Scotland." This is because of the melting pot thing, as there is often a noticeable cultural difference in the US between people of different national backgrounds. It's a useful and meaningful distinction here. It confuses and frustrates Europeans, though, as we are (a) not in fact Scottish (or whatever), especially not to a Scot, and (b) we generally have way more in common with other Americans of all backgrounds than we have with the nations of our ancestors. We tend not to realize this until we travel abroad to multiple foreign countries, though... G and I didn't. That's when we saw that an American who says he is "Scottish" is really only communicating something useful when he is in a group of other Americans. It's meaningless, or even offensive, to say that to a Scot.

[Did]

@GandK Yes it is confusing to Australains when a cap and "fanny pack" wearing American loudly claims they are Irish when to us, and indeed the Irish, there is nothing Irish about them. But it's their language and it clearly means something to them so who am I to complain.

I've noticed living in Ireland that the Irish get quite upset about it, as, to them, there is nothing more important in the whole world than being Irish, and I guess they do have a monopoly on the strict definition at least.

[Did]

@jacob I found the same thing ten years ago when I started brewing beer. I was into premium (and expensive) beers back then, and even wrote part of an international book on them, but brewed some up and had my own tap in the kitchen. What else do you do with a 20 liter keg of beer in your kitchen but drink it?

Turns out it was rubbish. At that time in my life it didn't make sense to home brew, as my palete was much more sophisticated than my brewing skills. It would be a great thing to take up at 18, so they could evolve together.

There is a place in Ireland that lets you brew wine with them but in reality they do it and you dodge the tax. I think I'll look into that if need be as the Irish taxes are extortionate.

But back to moderation, I'm trying to limit myself to two glasses a day, which is the health giving zone anyway.

[jennypenny]

@Did -- Haha yes, I often forget how diverse the forumites are and assume that everyone knows my meaning. In that respect, I'm VERY American (as opposed to Irish) lol. It does mean a lot here though, or at least it used to. Irish-Americans can be as fierce about their identity as the Irish.

It's probably the same as saying what region you're from in a lot of other countries. My son's German teacher often mentions that she's from northern Germany in a way that implies that's somehow better? I really don't know, but I can tell it's important to her. I also have another friend who, when asked if he's Spanish, says no, Catalan.

@Ego--I get what you're asking with why people are drinking. I agree with you (and others) that if you're drinking because you're unhappy or your marriage is falling apart or something similar, then it's a bad idea that's probably making things worse. BUT, if you're drinking because of something less entrenched, like you had a bad day/week at work, or maybe after a funeral, then why not? It's just a crutch to get you through a horrible, but temporary, funk. And as far as happy occasions, as long as it helps you be silly and not stupid, I don't see the harm unless it's so often that it affects your health. It gives people a safe way to let their hair down and can be a bonding experience for a group. Some people need alcohol to lighten up, especially if they struggle in social settings. People like me better when I've been drinking. Sad, but true.

[Ego]

BUT, if you're drinking because of something less entrenched, like you had a bad day/week at work, or maybe after a funeral, then why not? It's just a crutch to get you through a horrible, but temporary, funk. And as far as happy occasions, as long as it helps you be silly and not stupid, I don't see the harm unless it's so often that it affects your health. It gives people a safe way to let their hair down and can be a bonding experience for a group. Some people need alcohol to lighten up, especially if they struggle in social settings. People like me better when I've been drinking. Sad, but true.

1. A crutch to get through a bad day/week/funeral/temporary funk.
2. Helps people to be silly and let hair down.
3. Safe way to bond and get over the discomfort of social situations.

Would it not be better to do those things (or be that person) without alcohol, without the crutch. Is it possible that the use of the crutch (when there is really not anything wrong with a person) might make them weak? Is it possible that by feeling the discomfort of social situations rather than blunting it, the person will learn how to cope with it and overcome it. Being silly is fun. Letting ones hair down is healthy. Is alcohol induced silliness and relaxation a funhouse-mirror version of the real thing? Isn't real silliness so much more fun? Doesn't real relaxation actually make me feel good afterward? Am I stronger when I get through a temporary funk or a funeral as myself? Would it not be better for me if I learned to bond with others without an artificial aid? Do I lose some strength when I use a crutch to do it?

Most importantly, should I surround myself with people who like the real me rather than drug myself into something more acceptable to others?

One of my tenants is addicted to plastic surgery. The similarities are interesting.

[1taskaday]

All the questions that Ego just asked are the reason I don't drink alcohol anymore.

Believe me I could use alcohol as a social crutch,to lighten up and bond with other people/groups that socialize around pubs. But I want to be the real me awkwardness and all.

If I can't be just ME at this age,when will I...

[Ego]

No mincing of words here:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ncer-study

Alcohol causes seven forms of cancer, and people consuming even low to moderate amounts are at risk, according to new analysis.

[Did]

Cancer risk only. Overall mortality seems to be clearly down.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... ull-story/

[Ego]

Cancer risk only. Overall mortality seems to be clearly down.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... ull-story/

Correlations vs causes. Alcohol definitely causes cancer. It is also correlated with a longer life and lower risk of dying from certain disease. Note, those same correlations exist for social connectedness. Many use alcohol as a way to connect with others and many teetotalers are loners. Both may be confounding factors in the correlations of the Harvard article.

Be social without alcohol and you get the best of both worlds. Drink alone and you get the worst of both.

[Did]

Familiar with the concept but that doesn't seem to be the conclusion of many studies.

[7Wannabe5]

Ego said: Be social without alcohol and you get the best of both worlds.

Yay!!! And then you can eat all the cookies you want! Right?

[Ego]

Familiar with the concept but that doesn't seem to be the conclusion of many studies.

Au contraire.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/alcohol-con ... nce-379001

Studies comparing abstainers vs moderate drinkers are biased because abstainers are more likely to:
-be previous alcohol abusers
-abstain because they are in poor health and are taking medications
-be obese
-smoke cigarettes
-be significantly lower on the socioeconomic scale than moderate drinkers
-have depressive symptoms
-use avoidance coping
-have lower physical activity than moderate drinkers
-have fewer friends
-be single

After correcting the abstainer “biases” and certain design issues in the studies they reviewed, the researchers found that moderate drinkers no longer had an advantage in terms of longevity. They also noted that there were only 13 studies that avoided this kind of bias, and their results showed no health benefit to consuming alcohol moderately.

[jacob]

@Ego - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQqiuynMwCQ I see how you are ;-P