How do you build up from ground zero?

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FBeyer
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 am

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by FBeyer »

Just by asking you are actually doing something active about getting out of a bad situation. This puts you far ahead of the majority of people.

I do think there is one cynical thing you need to make clear to yourself. Do you want to feel good about your current situation or do you want to get out of your current situation?

My advice to you should you choose to go for the 'hard' way, ie work to improve.
1) Sleep. A lot.
2) Go on an information diet and realize how much time you spend on useless reading and empty entertainment.
3) Borrow a book on Mindfulness or Stoicism from the library. Study it, apply it, don't just read it. Do it.
4) Schedule, yes schedule, some high quality fun for yourself. Do something that makes you laugh out loud, or something where you completely lose track of time and enjoy that to the fullest. If you are in a fickle mood, don't do something where you might lose and get agitated about it. Don't play online shooters if getting on a team of 'tards pisses you off. Do something that truly and fully invigorates you. Going on an information diet should quite clearly outline how much reading you don't need during the day.
5) Exercise. Get rid of cortisol, release endorphins, sleep better, feel better, look better. Exercise is a win on ALL accounts.


Realize that even if there are random fluctuations up and down, in terms of quality of life, the continued effort to make things better will make the slope positive over longer time scales. And longer time scales are what matter.

Also: acknowledge that human brains are weird things. Being happy makes you smile, but smiling also makes you happy. You can actively trick yourself into feeling better by simply pretending. It's actually rather awesome :)

FBeyer
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 am

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by FBeyer »

Also, to hack some new habits, and you're a gamer-kind-of-person
Formerly known as habitRPG, turn your new productive habits into an old-school role playing game.
https://habitica.com/static/front

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

FBeyer said: I do think there is one cynical thing you need to make clear to yourself. Do you want to feel good about your current situation or do you want to get out of your current situation?
Good point. I didn't mean to convey that happiness should or can be simply achieved by mind over matter. What I have found to be more true is that many or most people are not rational about what factors do matter when it comes to happiness or fulfillment. I am such a nerd that I actually currently maintain a spreadsheet with which I objectively try to track which factors matter most for me, and I absolutely agree that sleep and exercise are number 1 and 2 with a bullet, with spending time out-of-doors, nutritional factors and high-quality sex sort of tied for number 3. That's why the broke-azz Huck Finn type walking by the side of the road might rationally be seen as functioning in a manner more conducive to his happiness than the fat, old, rich guy commuting to work in his expensive sports car. I don't think Maslow's hierarchy is a completely valid model, but it seems to me that a lot of people get stuck at the levels of Safety or Esteem for irrational or unnecessary reasons. Better to wake up tomorrow morning and attempt to self-actualize and observe what is really stopping you, rather than following the conventional wisdom on what blocks are necessary to build from bottom up.

Right-minded folk might quibble on what constitutes self-actualization, but I think carrying through on doing something like fulfilling my desire to see a display of daffodils underneath a mulberry tree next to a sad dilapidated house and a sort of scary alleyway is an example. How can you even know if you already have enough food, money, love, freedom or esteem to do what you want to do towards fulfillment if you don't know your purpose or purposes? I think the expression "Follow your passion and the money will follow" is sort of misunderstood because it should be something like "Follow your passion because only then will you be able to know how much money (as opposed or in addition to other factors)you really need for fulfillment."

Arbo
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Arbo »

Sigh, I'm not addicted to games anymore, but over use of games did probably get me in this situation. And I'm really not sure if the situation is as bright as some people are making it -- IE how do you get a job when you show up without work history? I hate this mturk stuff, the hourly rate is very low(to the person who asked)

It was 'ok' if I had no expenses, because 600 per month would be enough to help me out, and I did buy a mattress, shoes, winter boots, 2 sweatshirts, etc, some useful things -- and i was helping my mom out with 80 per month for food, since i feel bad that I'm eating food without contributing anything

In short, I don't know I'm employable, but mturk is just not giving enough IMO, since I'm not even on track to hit 600 this month

To Gand, I agree with you, but not ready to go back yet.

In short, what kind of jobs can ex-felons/no work history type people get? Mturk is not cutting it.

I need like 1,200 per month IMO, my mom earns that at a factory job, however that is full time and I signed and accepted the loans so I do think that it's pretty much set in stone that I need to go to the classes on Tues/Thurs

Oh well, ty to all who posted. I don't have the rosy picture that some people have because I don't see how the accounting works out. My friend says that Mcdondalds etc hires anything with a pulse, well, I've applied there, and Taco Bell, etc, the only job lead I had was as a package handler at UPS, which I would have had but it was 9 miles away(because yes, seems like not many jobs in my immediate area also, everything is very spread out, I can walk for 1.5 hours and run into nothing)

Ydobon
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Location: Scotland

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Ydobon »

As others have picked up on, it sounds like you're a bit depressed and have some self esteem issues. Try and be kind to yourself, you're trying and it will lead to positive changes... eventually.

I graduated with a useless degree and then spent a couple of years earning next to nothing in a shop job struggling with debts. Computer game/junk food/caffeine addict with the odd alcohol binge thrown in for good measure. Got out eventually through a little bit more education (targeted at something that led to a safe but boring job working in libraries).

Can definitely relate to the feelings of hopelessness. Unfortunately nobody gives a crap beyond the friendly commentators here, so a degree of just sucking things up will be necessary. Please try and be patient!

Arbo
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Arbo »

Well, I want to cross somet hings off of my list since that might make things seem better. I just called a bike shop near here and explained my problem with the bike, and they said to put it together it would probably be $60, assuming no piece is missing, so I think I need to get that done

The self esteem etc, that's just dumb, if someone is nearing homelessness they aren't going to be celebrating and patting themselves on the back

Oh well, if I have any kind of progress I will report it, I think I've heard all of the advice that is to be heard. George the original and Jacob both had good advice in the other thread, people in this thread have good advice also, but it's just too much ATM. Maybe later tonight when Im not stressed I will come back and re-read all of the posts and try to deeply consider each point, but for now I'm going AFK, like I tend to do with my all of my threads.

I will pop back up at a different time and hopefully have some updates

Ydobon
Posts: 412
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Location: Scotland

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Ydobon »

Best of luck :)

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

If you want advice on how to fix your bike there are a lot of mechanics here who would be happy to help. It might save you $60 (or less, if you have to buy tools or parts). Maybe a new thread?

jacob
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by jacob »

Yes, take a picture of the disassembled parts and post it.

JamesR
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by JamesR »

Lack of work history isn't gonna prevent you from getting a job. Honestly, if you're a young guy (which you are) applying to an entry level job, employers are really only looking for the minimum evidence that you're not completely dumb, and that you know how to work, and that you're gonna show up when you said you're gonna show up, and not disappear on them suddenly without advance notice. A bonus is if you appear to be excited/passionate about the job opportunity/industry and that you're gonna be a sponge that sucks up everything and levels up rapidly.

You should put your failed online business thing on your resume, and any other projects or things that you have done that demonstrate 'grit' and other capacity for work. Such as if you spent a summer working on a farm or building a house or whatever.

Much of that evidence that they're looking for, you can give it to them VERBALLY at the interview rather than via resume. You can tell them straight up "Look, I don't have much work history to speak of, but I'm not an idiot, I'm responsible, mature, I can communicate if I have any problems, I can learn, etc"

I once did something similar, I told the CEO of a small startup during my interview "Look, I'm smart. I'm really smart." It was pretty awkward to straight up just tell the guy that, and not a very recommended tactic perhaps, but I got hired.

JasonR
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by JasonR »

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Last edited by JasonR on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EdithKeeler
Posts: 1099
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by EdithKeeler »

In short, what kind of jobs can ex-felons/no work history type people get?
I'm not entirely clear--are you an ex-offender? I apologize if I misunderstood or missed a post.

I have a friend who is a convicted felon. But a felony is certainly an impediment to finding a job--especially if it's recent and you haven't built up any work history since the conviction. First step is the hardest. Same friend also rents apartments to convicted sex offenders, and those guys have a lot of job issues as well. HOWEVER--it's not an insurmountable problem. I don't think you've said where you live, but you will find, in larger cities at least, that there are often people who specifically hire ex-cons.The jobs may not be glamorous or exciting, but a first step. Google "felon-friendly employers" in your city--I'm in Memphis, and there's a pretty good list here. If you have a probation or parole officer, you might get some leads that way. Also, if there's a Catholic Charities or Salvation Army in your area, you might talk to them about hooking you up with employers that hire ex-offenders, jobs that don't require experience, etc.

Another thing that can lead to a job is volunteer work--unfortunately, it won't solve your short term money issues, but a good volunteer history is something to put on your resume and can lead to good references from the people you work for/with. You've apparently have some computer skills? Referenced an online business?Can you trade on that? The bike shop that you took your bike to--maybe they need a website in exchange for fixing your bike? Maybe they could take you on as an "unpaid intern" and show you how to repair bikes--and that could leverage into a job?

If you're taking classes at the community college, there are probably some opportunities and resources there. Is there a "campus employment" office or something like that? Make friends with the people that work there, make them know you so that if something comes up, you're the first person they think of for the job.

The good thing about starting at pretty much zero is that there's no place to go but up. You have an opportunity to do something, and the worst thing that can happen right now is that someone will say "no." You seem to be willing to try almost anything--which is GREAT--and if you show that attitude, it will eventually pay off. You can look at this as an opportunity to try a lot of different things on to figure out what you really want to do. I know I sound a little pie-in-the-sky, Horatio Alger here, but I'm not stupid--it's not easy, and you kind of have to "work it" all the time. Everyone you meet, figure out a way to ask if they know about anyone who's hiring? If they don't, that's cool, don't press, but if you put it out there enough, it will eventually come back.

And.. you know, I just paid a guy $250 to rake and bag the leaves in my yard (23 HUGE bags! God bless him....). He did such a good job, my neighbor asked for his number, and he came out the next weekend and did hers (she only had 19 bags--I won!). The new people across the street were asking who did our yards, so he'll probably get more work out of it. I think this is just some extra spending cash for him, but he made some cash with some leaf bags and a rake. Heck, he could save up from those two jobs and buy a blower and double the number of yards.

You CAN do it, and we're rooting for you and supporting you here.

theanimal
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by theanimal »

Arbo- I listened to this episode today from Joshua at Radical Personal Finance and thought of you: http://radicalpersonalfinance.com/273-t ... oney-food/ I think you may find this helpful.

Arbo
Posts: 76
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Arbo »

Update with some bad news : LOoks like I was rejected for financial aid. I do not know why, college is closed until Jan 4th but I will try to find out, but who knows.

So I'm now in a very bad position, worse than I've thought -- I do not have a license, transportation, etc, bad work history, etc. Good thread, good tips, I'm stressed out, but I will update the thread again when I have some kind of good news to offer, such as finding a full time min wage job, although I'm seriously wondering if I'll be able to get one

(sorry for the bad news update, I'm still holding out a 10% hope that i did get financial aid and that i just encoutnered an error on the page or something, I really do not know.... Eh, nah this has to be a legit rejection. Oh well, like all my threads, I keep re-reading them from time to time to get the good advice, etc, so thank you for posting, srs)

BRUTE
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by BRUTE »

brute seconds the military option, if arbo does not have moral objections. at the very least the military will get arbo out of his current situation for a few years. it is also very prestigious in blue collar and even many white collar circles to be a veteran. and they will likely pay for arbo to go to college, or teach him a useful trade. arbo could try to join the military, but view it as school/university.

Riggerjack
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Riggerjack »

Iwhen I was in the army, I went for the extensive electronics training... On electronics from the 50's. My school was 9 months, but because of the long training time, I had to sign up for 4 years.

If I were doing it today, I'd sign up to be a heavy equipment operator. 2 year commitment, and training that easily applies to civilian life. Oh, and pretty good blue collar money, too.

It's not easy working full time, and going to school, but it is easier to work for 25-60/hr and save up for school, than work minimum wage and try to squeeze school in too.

Carlos
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Carlos »

I graduated from college with a useless degree in psychology. What was I thinking? The lady at the temp agency where I went for help finding a job said I had "limited skills". Eventually I found a job doing a physical asset inventory for a small local credit union. This task lasted a few months and then they let me stay on as a courier shuttling paperwork and supplies among the branches.

The credit union didn't offer me anything permanent so eventually I found a job as a messenger for a third-party freight forwarder. Basically I drove to the airport and the courier companies (UPS, FedEx, DHL) to collect and deliver paperwork. I was a temp and made about $7.50 an hour. (as an aside I was stupid enough to buy a used car, financed through the dealership at 9.45%, based on a temp job I had for 3 months).

One morning the office manager followed me to the auto mechanic so I we could drop off the company truck for maintenance. He suggested we stop for coffee on the way back. As we sat for a moment over coffee he told me I was doing a great job. I thanked him but commented that it wasn't very hard, I just drove around delivering paperwork.

He laughed, "You have no idea how many messengers we've had. You've lasted longer than most. The last guy we let go because he was always stopping at his GF's house".

I stayed there 5 years and eventually was a department manager over 4 people.

cmonkey
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by cmonkey »

Arbo wrote:college is closed until Jan 4th but I will try to find out, but who knows.
Did you find out about the financial aid?

Arbo
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by Arbo »

Sigh... Here is my update :

-Financial aid did go through. I am registered for classes, and just got back from my first class. It feels ridiculous, like, 'What are you doing here, (Arbo)?' I'm taking a basic writing class that I was forced to take because I did bad on the writing assessment, because I really had no clue what was going on with this very weird test and because I had walked a long time, took a bus, etc, and was just generally very frazzled from all things happening

-The class? Feels like a joke. Everyone there is either young, out of high school, or like 35-40, married, somewhat successful. The class is doing nothing but interaction and all kinds of silly things. Next class, Wednesday, I have to get up and do a lame presentation with a guy I met, and it's just shameful to have to 'tell stuff' about someone, when I have no employment info to give(ie the lifestyle is pretty lame)

The financial aid, I guess that will help, but it feels like a drop in the bucket at this point, and I feel that I do not belong anywhere at this point. No emo. But I guess given my age, it's weird to be here with young kids or full adults, and it's just generally a very bad setup that I can't feel very confident about. But since I accepted the loans, etc, bought books, basically have to go through with it now

Sorry, this was probably a bad turn and a bad diversion. The classes are Monday and Wednesday at 6pmest, and I get a ride there to travel, basically feel bad about wasting my moms gas and messing with her night also, etc...

Oh well, I'm trying to find a solution here, find some way to make it seem like 'classes'(general ed) are good, but it just seems weird. Why am I doing this? Ah, for the financial aid. Which just feels scummy.

I don't know, me paying 400 per month in rent, my mom paying similar, neither of us able to save, it feels like defeat. Like this isn't a substitute for a job, even though I will be getting a decent amount of money through fin aid... Ah well, I guess I'm in a quandary, I feel unemployable, yet employment seems to be the answer to my problems. I guess this isn't making me employable, at all, so it's just a way to get a little bit of cash

(angry/frustrated, want to find a simple path or solution to get to where I want to go)

tylerrr
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Re: How do you build up from ground zero?

Post by tylerrr »

cmonkey wrote:I realized my story might help as inspiration a little bit. I've never really talked about it on the forums, but this seems an appropriate place to share it. Just know its possible to bring your standard of living up and create a better life for yourself. You do have to work your butt off though!

I grew up in a poor family on an acreage in the middle of northern Iowa. I lived about 20 miles from my school and so never really had many friends. Our family was saddled with debt for my entire life and it ultimately cause my folks to get a divorce right after I moved away from home. To this day my brother has never risen above poverty, same for my mom. I don't really talk to them anymore, the cultural gap has widened way too much. They never supported me financially and my dad was the only one that even remotely supported me emotionally with going to college. We recently started talking again. I was completely alone for the first year (emotionally) until I met the DW. It was very difficult and it was really hard to get out of bed each day (physically more than emotionally) because I was usually up before the sun and came back at about 11PM (my work closed at 10PM and was 30 minutes away)

I worked convenience store work for a year after high school before deciding I had had enough and wanted something more for myself. I distinctly remember choosing between buying one of the new Pontiac GTOs that had just come out and going to college (made the right choice I think!!). So I enrolled in a few night classes (like you are doing) and then eventually enrolled full time with financial aid. I lived in Section 8 housing (something else you might look for) and paid something like 50 bucks a month in rent and at the same time worked near full time at the same gas station. I make probably 800-1000 bucks a month in income and never rang up any debt (I hated it and still do). My junior and senior year I also worked part time in the college's IT department and found a job that was in the same town as my college (as opposed to 10 miles away). I started biking to that job my senior year. I also had SNAP benefits for the entire time (because I lived off campus). By then I had the DW and her folks giving me a reason to get out of bed in the morning and everything got much easier. By the end of college, I had enough money saved up to pay off one of my loans the day I took the exit class that teaches you how to pay off student debt. A year later I had paid off another 15K loan after landing a good job (thankfully). The only reason I got that job was through good fortune and a lot of driving. It was in California (an internship) and the only reason I got it is that I jumped at the chance of it, despite never having traveled outside the midwest on my own before. So I drove to LA (through the mountains, yike!) and back again, thus landing a great job. It was only possible because I took some risks and had a little luck.
Thank you...Your story is inspirational to me and gives me hope there are people like you left in the USA. Personally, I left home and joined the military. I've been on my own ever since, completed my B.A. degree at night and now i'm using rest of G.I. Bill to complete graduate school. I highly recommend the military for some people in similar situations. It's an incredible financial opportunity for ERE type people and it changed my life for the better.

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