Replacing milk with water

[TopHatFox]

do ya'll buy milk? For the vegans, I usually only buy it for the fortified B12, but maybe if I can get that with fortified nutritional yeast, store milk will no longer be necessary.

Then it just becomes a matter of making tasty things w/o milk. So far I've replaced milk with water in smoothies, cookie batter, oatmeal, and some other foods. To make the food taste good, I usually add bananas, raisins, or other naturally sweet fruits or vegetables.

[jacob]

No.

Milk was the first food I stopped buying when moving out. Years before thinking about ERE. I don't know what they put in the milk in the US to make it last so long but where I grew up milk expired after 6 days. That was too often for me to bother to go to the supermarket to pick up more.

I replaced it with water.

[slsdly]

If your sole source of B12 is through nutritional yeast, you have to eat a fair bit of it. I think 1/4 cup of the Bob's Red Mill gives 300% of the guideline, so 1/12 of a cup or 4 tsp / day. I wish they would provide the actual weight in micrograms. I'm not sure if it is roughly 2 micrograms @ 100% (the low end) or 5-7 micrograms (excellent, I would have zero concerns!). It also depends on how well you absorb B12; some people are more efficient, others less so. Since the body can store B12 in your liver, if you aren't consuming enough, you may not suffer symptoms until years or decades have passed, so keep that in mind.

Not that I intend to freak you out, you will probably be okay . I buy cow's milk. Mainly because I enjoy it as a drink. Getting B12 is a bonus and it is my primary source. If Canada opens its dairy market and/or lowers our standards of production as a result, I will buy organic and pay through the nose. Alas.

As a matter of flavour: the sugar and fat in the milk make things delicious. Easy enough to come up with substitutes for that. For muffins I sometimes replace both the butter/oil and milk with coconut milk which results in something very tasty.

@jacob: It is the heat treatment they apply to the milk. It also affects the taste quite a bit. As a result of competing processes (i.e. HTST vs UHT) brands may taste differently.

[Matty]

I stopped having milk in my oatmeal about 6 months ago. Like slsdly said a bit of fat (coconut oil) and sugar (fruit) makes up for any loss in flavour. Still can't manage to enjoy cold muesli or cereal with water though!

Is taking b12 supplements any cheaper than purchasing fortified products?

My partner recently picked up a b12 deficiency during a routine health check. She eats a moderate amount of animal products so must be inefficient at absorption. She's currently getting b12 shots every month to increase her levels.

[IlliniDave]

It's only very occasionally that I buy milk. Usually when a renegade package of 1/2 price Oreo's infiltrates my shopping cart. I need better border security it seems.

I am not a vegan so I get plenty of animal protein and related nutrients. I don't supplement B12. At times in the winter I'll supplement Vitamin D (something fortified milk is a primary source of for a lot of people).

According to The Ultimate Cheepskate (guy's name escapes me at the moment), milk is a pretty high bang for the buck food source. I suppose though if you're inclined to go with organic, unpasteurized stuff it's probably more expensive. And if you're lactose intolerant, it's good to avoid. I am not.

[slsdly]

@Matty, I can't speak for wherever you are, but here in Toronto, B12 pills are cheaper than nutritional yeast from what I have seen. Although to be fair, nutritional yeast comes supplemented with all of the B vitamins, and can be used as a flavouring agent. For the purists, note that the B12 in nutritional yeast is no different from the pills -- it is fortified. I think you can get it from certain kinds of mushrooms...but not very much. And it is probably the dirt rather than the mushroom hah .

B12 is not exactly plentiful in nature. Even if you eat a lot of meat like chicken and beef, it does not have very much. You will get more out of a glass of milk. Fish is a great source. The best is liver (after all, that's where it gets stored!). When I ran the numbers for myself, I was very surprised to learn I get most of my B12 from milk.

Milk is much cheaper in the USA. For regular non-organic bagged milk (cheapest option), I pay around $1/L or $3.83/gallon. Even bulk powdered milk is the similar price per litre. Organic milk is nearly twice as much.

[vexed87]

Those huge 8 pints of milk bottles are cheaper than most bottled waters in the UK, that said I'm not sure why anyone would buy bottled water as the stuff that comes out of the taps in the UK is perfectly drinkable, unlike some places in mainland europe.

[OldPro]

Huh, I can still her my Mother's voice saying, 'drink your milk, it's good for you.'

I"m old enough to remember when milk was delivered to your doorstep and my Brother and I would fight to see who got to drink the cream off the top.

Look close and you'll see the layer of cream on top in this photo: http://www.otheravenues.coop/wp-content ... t-Milk.jpg

Replace milk with water? You gotta be kidding!!!!!

[theanimal]

The claim that milk (from a cow) is good for you has been disproved many times.

When I first became vegan (about 3 years ago), I occasionally included milk in oatmeal or baking dishes. I eventually just removed it from my diet. Occasionally, I still use it when making pancakes but usually I just end up using water.

In my new job (where food is provided), I'll likely end up eating meat again. No way I'm going back to dairy though.

[cmonkey]

I cannot stand the taste of cow's milk. I have never tried any other form of animal milk but the thought of drinking cow's milk makes me gag. I see the gallons and gallons that other people buy and I think "how in God's name can you stomach all that".

We drink almond milk as a substitute sometimes, and do use cow's milk (organic only) for a few baking items.

Given that, I have also started cutting down on almond milk since I guess it is pretty water intensive to make.

I mainly just drink coffee, orange juice (with vitamin powder, otherwise I wouldn't drink OJ {it tastes horrible in anything but}), water and several teas. Never anything else.

For B12, I would just get a good powdered multivitamin. This is what we get - http://www.amazon.com/All-One-Nutrient- ... 378&sr=8-1

It is certified vegan as well. 2 heaping teaspoons per day per person lasts the 2 of us about 3 months.

[enigmaT120]

I like Irish Breakfast tea in the morning and use milk in it. I don't know if any non-dairy substitutes would be very good for that. I'm certain that additional water wouldn't help.

[Peanut]

Given that, I have also started cutting down on almond milk since I guess it is pretty water intensive to make.

I read the other day in a NYT piece on the CA drought that growing one almond takes a gallon of water. Granted, I know nothing about farming, but that seemed like too much. DH and I agreed to cut them out. I figured he mostly eats them anyway, raw. Then I realized I'll be giving up marzipan.

[jennypenny]

I feel the same about coconut water/milk. It has to travel a long way to get to me. Too much environmental cost. At least I can get cow's milk from a farm in town.

[slsdly]

You can make coconut milk from dried coconut and water. Dried coconut has a long shelf life and I can only assume would take less resources to ship than cans full of water. No BPA lining to worry about either. Although still not a local product.

I'm not a fan of the taste of the store brands for almond milk, soy milk, etc. I've made homemade oat "milk" [1] before, far more tasty and highly recommended. But it doesn't contain any of the fortifications (or preservatives for that matter), so it isn't useful to me as a B12 source. I've debated throwing nutritional yeast in the blender with the oats and hoping for the best .

(I think you can get fortified oat milk at the supermarket for similar prices as soy/almond milk nowadays.)

[anomie]

I do not drink milk; use water for many things including oatmeal.

And the occasional Silk soy milk original flavor for drinking and cereal. It is fortified with Vitamin D and B12 but we don't drink enough to be a good source.

We tried almond milk but found it did not have enough protein and to be to watery for our tastes.

[WillS]

I'm no vegan, but DurianRider’s dairy rant <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5OgkijHwUY> kind sealed the deal for me. No more milk. It's hilarious. Must watch.

Besides all the points he makes about ethics, health, and general weirdness, I'd suggest everyone go and calculate the $/calorie figures for milk vs practically any other food. Also consider the logistical overhead of constantly replenishing something with a short shelf life. From an economic point of view, it just doesn't pencil out. Milk basically has sugar, fat, protein, and maybe a few vitamins, all of which can be had cheaper from other sources.

I make my oatmeal with nothing but rolled oats, raisins, cinnamon, and sometimes flax. The flax gives it a richer, nuttier taste, but I'm generally too lazy to keep fresh flax meal on hand. I find that once you quit eating sugar (which you should for both health and economic reasons, which are kind of tied together considering how expensive health problems can be) you rediscover the sweetness of starch, which your salivary amylase will break into sugar anyway. The oatmeal and raisins have plenty of sweetness to begin with.

[WillS]

Ah... that video might be NSFW btw...

[Dave]

I will drink milk if it is around, but between 1) not wanting to carry milk home from the grocery 2) finding the satiation/$ factor to be low and 3) avoiding consuming processed foods, I rarely buy it.

Which is interesting because I used to drink a ton of milk growing up, and when I "bulked" up while powerlifting.

[cmonkey]

Given that, I have also started cutting down on almond milk since I guess it is pretty water intensive to make.

I read the other day in a NYT piece on the CA drought that growing one almond takes a gallon of water. Granted, I know nothing about farming, but that seemed like too much. DH and I agreed to cut them out. I figured he mostly eats them anyway, raw. Then I realized I'll be giving up marzipan.

I think that is pretty accurate actually, it is quite outrageous how much water is used. Our response was to cut down on it and also plant an almond tree.

[fiby41]

I alternate between eating puffed rice soaked in water or in milk for breakfast.

More healthy than sugary cereal.