Keep working or follow passion?

[Matty]

My extended family have recently purchased an estate about 50km from the CBD where I currently work. The property is 87 acres of undulating hills with about 60 acres of native bush, 20 of partially cleared land, a 5 acre olive orchard and a few acres around the house. There are also a few small dams on the property. The house is completely off-grid with rainwater storage, solar/wind/diesel power and battery storage, wood heating and hot water and gas cooking. Council rates being the only compulsory charge.

Currently my nan and aunty plan to live there full-time with my parents eventually retiring there as well.

This is making it extremely difficult for me to take work seriously.

I really want to finish up with my job, move up on the property and work there full-time to execute a permaculture design for the land and work towards providing enough food for everyone on-site and also other family members off-site. This has been my dream lifestyle since my early university days. I could pretty much find an unlimited amount of work to do for a few years and I’d also have the opportunity to devote more time to developing other hobbies and skills including building myself a small house somewhere in the bush.

I obviously wouldn’t be paid but could live rent free and would spend a small amount on food as it would be heavily supplemented by what I could grow/hunt (plenty of roos and rabbits). Most of my money would probably be spent contributing to materials for the property and supporting other hobbies. Expenses of less than $5000 could be doable if I manage without a car, there’s a train into the CBD from the local town about 10km bike ride away. I could even get a small part-time job locally to supplement finances.

Here’s some key points about my current situation:
1. Net worth sitting around $85k if I sold my car and paid off student loans. I could hang around a few more months to get a nice even $100k.
2. Current potential to save $40k+ per year if I keep working
3. Pretty miserable with current lifestyle 9-5 lifestyle – nowhere near enough time to do what I want!
4. Almost 25
5. I work in the environmental/natural resource management field so could probably put my time spent working on this property on my resume...

Main concerns:
1. Isolation and/or spending too much time with family. I get along fine with my family but would be concerned about becoming too isolated within our little group. Having access to a train into the city would allow me to catch up with friends and attend events which would help to offset this. I guess I spend most of my time working now anyway so probably wouldn’t see anyone any less haha… Having a car would give me a bit more flexibility in terms of social activities and pursuing other hobbies but it’s a significant expense. Perhaps it will be worth it? Maybe even a van so I can stay down at the coast/hills or in town when I’m down…
2. Sacrificing a potential $40k a year of savings for??? Enjoying each day rather than living for weekends/evening. Building new skills. Improving family assets through access to free, healthy food. Opening up new opportunities for income.
3. What next? Will I be able to long term ERE with $100k? Will I have to grow up, get married and return to a standard job? Will I carve out a new way to make money and never need to return?

So pretty much: should I do it or am I crazy to give up my current potential to build finances? I'm a big believer of basing my decisions on what I'm moving towards rather than what I'm escaping from. This is definitely something I would be excited to move towards.

[theanimal]

It sounds like you already know what your decision is . You/you will have a solid base and if something were to happen where you needed more funds you could do something like pick up a seasonal job or work part time. And you'll likely build up a large skill set from working on the property that could help to decrease future expenses. I say go for it!

[JamesR]

Sounds like a sweet setup.

If you quit now, it seems very likely you'll definitely need to work on additional streams of income as the $85k at 4% SWR will only give you about $3400. One more year of work would get you to $5000.

Work is not just an activity that generates funds and creates desire; it's the vagabonding gestation period, wherein you earn your integrity, start making plans, and get your proverbial act together. Work is a time to dream about travel and write notes to yourself, but it's also the time to tie up your loose ends. Work is when you confront the problems you might otherwise be tempted to run away from. Work is how you settle your financial and emotional debts - so that your travels are not an escape from your real life but a discovery of your real life.

I think you're young enough to be especially susceptible to the 'antsy' factor, which is something that plagued me in my 20's. I would get antsy and quit work and then run out of money and be forced to go back to work later. At $85k you're far ahead of where I was, but unless you can spend less than $3k of your money annually, and supplement the rest with part-time work, your investment will start shrinking. Also, what are the chances you'll end up doing some lumpsum "investment" into the property or into something family related? That $85k could shrink real quick.

I subscribe to the notion of "first retire, then get rich", and I think that when you 'retire' you'll definitely want to find ways to develop new streams of incomes out of your passions regardless. If you can already see lots of ways for creating income while living on the land, then go for it. Otherwise, balance the likelihood of your investment continuing to grow when you 'retire' now compared to working another year and being more prepared.

This land opportunity isn't going to disappear if you don't jump on it right away. Don't let the RECENCY of this amazing opportunity make you jump the gun prematurely.

[Sclass]

This does sound like a sweet setup. For an older person..., but if I could be twenty again, I'd head for the biggest city and party my ass off (with other frugals of course )

I do see the downside. You could get isolated. You'd have to find some outlets where you could socialize with other twenty somethings. I don't know enough about the youth scene in the landed gentry (FFA, 4H?) but from my far off perspective it looks lonely...at least it is in the history books. I had an ancestor who was the son of a small despot. He ended up spending a lot of time with the townspeople (taxes) and married a commoner. I visited the historical home as a kid and imagined the kid locked up in there. Going down and partying with the locals and giving them tax breaks was proabably the smartest thing he did.

Ok seriously your situation sounds like a dream. I've wondered if I should pick up some land and live far off someplace and grow organic food for myself. After hunting a few friends' properties I realized I was always with the guy who lived in the trailer on the property. The caretaker. He knew where every deer was hidden, every hippy was squatting, and where every poacher accessed the property. We'd find more wild pot plants than deer that local teens had planted. We'd stop at every one and rip it up. Fences had to be mended. Defaced private property signs replaced. Dumped trash picked up. I never got to use my tags.

The guys were always alcoholic. I was instructed to show up with a bottle of scotch. They had a nice likewise alcoholic lady living in the trailer with them. Always.

Oddly my pals (landowners) were never there. It was me and the caretaker.

Don't become that guy. I decided to just stay in the city and eat Whole Foods organic. I didn't want to deal with actually employing a person to keep an eye on my land. If you want a job as a caretaker, go for it. But you sound young and have an exciting future that you may be passing up. Youth for most people is about relationships.

You're not early retiring, you're becoming the tool of the property owner. Make a stake first, then go live out there with the option of ERE off the farm when you get sick of it.

[SimonJ]

That sounds like a sweet deal to me

Maybe it would be best though to pay off your student loans and do some hardcore studying on permaculture while you work. Get your knowledge set up to a very high level and deal with any debts, then do it.

If you really know what you are doing, setting up a permaculture farm can supply all your needs. If you start getting some really cool stuff happening there, you could get the word out on the internet and bring in some like minded people who want to learn/help. This could also help with the isolation factor. This is becoming a popular thing these days.

You could even look into keeping your car, or sharing a car with the others who live there so you can get around to the city and what not.

If living in close quarters with family may get to be too much, you could look into building your self a little cabin out back some place to get some privacy.

There is no need for you to stay at this farm for the rest of your life either. You could put in a few years, get all kinds of experience and then go try something else if you want. Maybe get your own place in a more desirable location.

Lots to think about. Good luck with it all

[JamesR]

One of the other threads got bumped and I re-read mikeBOS's post about living in the desert for a year. http://lackingambition.com/?p=423 With that kind of lifestyle, I could see ERE on $85k being eminently doable. So maybe disregard what I said earlier

[Matty]

Thanks all for the wisdom. Seems like overall support if risks are managed.

Shrinking capital would be a concern. I think I could manage this with a combination of supplemental work/self-employment and extremely low expenses. The tax-free threshold in Australia is $18k per year so I like the idea of aiming for this amount of income ($4-6k of investment income and $12-14k from work). With this plan I could potentially save $10k per year which is still a lot more than most! Lump sum investments into the property/hobbies will be something to watch out for in my budget.

I agree theanimal and cimorene12, the decision has been made. The key is just deciding the exit strategy. As JamesR mentioned, I’m susceptible to the ‘antsy’ factor. So far I’ve managed to supress this urge and have ended up with a nice bit of capital as a result. It would be nice to hit the $100k milestone which isn’t too far away, just a few months. At a minimum, I am aiming for this. Then perhaps a bit of spending money for the first year so I don’t feel rushed to get a part-time job or set up a business. There’s a sweet spot between quitting tomorrow and saving $300k+

I’m planning to spend a few weeks up there over Christmas which will be a good trial run. Work is pretty chilled as well so disregarding ethics, there’s the opportunity to do a lot of the research and planning I would be doing anyway at work and get paid for the time.

Regarding isolation. The property is about 10km from a town of 20,000. Not a bad bike ride. There’s a local transition town movement* and a few permaculture type farms. I could probably make friends with some likeminded locals. Plus there’s a train for $3.40 into the CBD about an hour away to keep in touch with old friends. I think it could work, will just have to monitor.

I don’t imagine I’ll live on the farm forever. But I could definitely spend a few years there and see where it takes me. If and when I decide to move on I will be in a slightly better financial position than I am in now plus much more skilled at a range of things. Unless the family sells up it will always be a home base to return to, with the additional benefits of lots of perennial food!

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_town

PS. Thanks for the link to lackingambition! That is some great inspiration!

PPS. I also enjoyed your recent post in another thread SimonJ linking to your summerlong experience living in a tent! http://www.mypermaculture.net/?p=93

[Devil's Advocate]

Keep working or follow passion?

Thanks all for the wisdom.

Some more unalloyed (if verbose) wisdom : Stuff of dreams, Matty, what you’ve got going there. Your decision every time, of course, but since you ask : Seems like a total no-brainer to me!

You get to follow your passion. And you get to do this while staying with your family (who I’m assuming are not the psychotic types, or people you can’t stand the sight of, else you’d surely have mentioned that) and on your (as in your family’s) own land. With the potential for further part-time earnings there as well. (Incidentally : surely you can find ways to earn money from your projects within the estate itself, without having to hop off to part-time work in the nearest city?) I don’t see why you shouldn’t dump your calculations in the trash and directly jump off there already.

A few thoughts, though :

One : I didn't notice any mention of an SO in the wings. Have you thought of that aspect at all? Of course if there is no specific person right now, then planning for the hypothetical needs and wants of a hypothetical relationship may be a bit far out.

Two : It could be a bit delicate talking about things of this nature with your own family, but it seems that the estate has been paid for not by you but by other family members. If that is correct, then you need to have some idea about how you’ll stand there, in terms of “your” space (both physical and otherwise). For instance your plans of working at the estate, is everyone else in agreement with the idea? Also going ahead, I mean in terms of inheritance and all that : you don’t want to spend twenty five years there developing that land and then find yourself eased out of there. Of course this is family, and perhaps such dire thoughts are unfounded (your family, so you’re the one to judge): but it’s usually better to be clear about these things.

And three : Would you really enjoy a concentrated dose of this kind of thing? I myself definitely would (and in fact actually do, at this time, albeit toned down HUGELY to wholly plebian proportions when compared with your family's estate!), but then my 25-year-old self would most definitely have not been content to vegetate away. It could be an age thing, like @Sclass says. Or it could simply be an individual thing. Either way, think about it : are you cut out for this kind of life? (Then again, if you start out, and then find the experience stunting, despite the open spaces : you can simply return to your profession, can’t you?)

On the other hand, like @JamesR says, your family estate isn’t running away from you. So you could bulk up your portfolio, and *then* go off there. Only : you’d then be doing what you could anyways have done, what anyone can do, on far humbler scale : what you have now is a unique opportunity that not many others do, thanks to your family’s money and choices. Don't let the chance go unless you must.

Had I been in your place, I’d definitely have taken the plunge. Like, right away! But then I have in any case already taken that plunge, and on far far humbler scale than your family has, so I would say that, wouldn’t I? My 25-year-old self would hate it, my uhh, current-age self already does it : I guess my 30-year-old self would LOVE to be in your place! So are you like my 30-year-old self?



Seriously, though : the whole thing sounds very very cool! If you’re starting from scratch, that is the sort of dream retirement that many would hope/dream to get at after a very successful career. If you can get to it right away, when still actually young, and if you’re the kind who enjoys that kind of thing, why then this sounds actually idyllic! Especially given that you say you hate your nine-to-five. (Which, incidentally, is a very healthy attitude to have towards one’s work. A sure indication that you’re sane and undamaged! *Smile*)