Paper Plates and Disposable Goods

[gibberade]

I should add-

We all have our environmental vices to some degree. So bashing anyone over plates, light bulbs, shower heads or what have you, is just hypocritical.

[JohnnyH]

@gibberade: agreed, nothing is free and just because you are throwing something away doesn't always make it horrible... Example: recycling in many localities routinely costs significantly more money and energy than original extraction and production. Yet, people look at you like you're some kind of monster for suggesting such a thing.
@AlexOliver: yes, Weyerhaeuser is a big (biggest?) commercial timber company with 7 million acres. But the USFS manages over 160 million acres west of the Mississippi and another 100 million in Alaska... Commercial logging has come a LONG way, the negative reputation is based on old stereotypes...
We have plenty of pulp wood. It's so cheap it's hard to find buyers within a viable transport... By not logging and/or suppressing all fires, all were doing is making new old growth an incredible rarity.

[photoguy]

I think all this criticism of using paper plates instead of dishes is missing the forest for the trees so to speak.
The extra impact by someone in using paper plates is miniscule compared to some of the other things we do. For example, your carbon footprint just going on flight to JFK from SFO is 750 kilograms of CO2. The average household drives 20K miles per year -- at 25 mpg that's 800 gallons of gasoline or about 5000 lbs of fuel. Or 14lbs per day. 14lbs of gas is far far more wasteful than a few paper plates.
The average american eats somewhere between 50-150 burgers per year. At an estimated 3-6kg of CO2 per burger that's 500-1000kg of CO2 per year.
To improve the environment we need to get the big things right.

[gibberade]

Photoguy, that's an extremely good point.

Meat production accounts for a full 20% of the worlds greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. There's also the water footprint. It takes a lot of water to produce meat. Air travel is also horrendous at 3.5% of our GHG emissions. That figure is expected to rise to 15% within a few decades.

So let's say air travel + meat eating account for 1/4 of our GHG emissions. How about paper plates? It's negligible.

So here's what I suggest. Eat less (or stop eating) meat on those paper plates.
And never, ever, eat meat on a paper plate, on a airplane.

[George the other one]

For the record I eat my suppers out of a a 112 oz glass mixing bowl. When I am finished eating I simply fill it with tap water and let it soak for a day. Then the next day I dump the water out, lightly rinse it, and then prepare my next meal in it. The bowl was free and the water that I use (cold) is included in my rent so I pay for it whether I use it or not.

[JohnnyH]

Some rational stuff here... but meat isn't inherently bad for the environment. My meat comes from down the road and lives off the natural grasses... It's butchered on the same road.
Most vegetables are shipped in however. I'll be sure to mention to the next recycle crazy vegetarian I see they're ruining the environment

[HSpencer]

I find the comments listed in the thread as very interesting. The summary so far is that different people think and do different things regarding a topic. This is what makes us such a diverse society. When I put up the OP, I was actually thinking of a cost~vs~benefit aspect, but I am also very pleased to see the topic go environmental which is extremely important to all of us. I got the original idea for the post from Jacob's book. In Chapter 6, para 6.1.3, (wow, I like this "military" chapter coding, much like "AR's" - army regulations-, makes me feel right at home!) anyway, the section talks of "a box of nails is one item, but a stack of plates is a grouping of items. So that lead to the OP. Further, in Jacob's post on this thread above, he relates that "paper" is kept as back up for having guests to his home. This information made me feel that paper plates might not be all that negative ERE.

My wife and myself do feel that use of paper plates for meals on a regular basis is wasteful. We started using them when we lived between home and the apartment. Our normal scenario would be having a meal either at home, or the apartment, where ever we found ourselves at the time. We may have lunch (Sandwiches) at the apartment, and that night dinner (full meal) at home. We had a dishwasher at both places. At first it became a night mare to remember what food we had available at what location, and what dishes we had used and put in the dishwasher at what location. (BTW--it can be difficult to live in two different locations simultaneously). We did that for seven years. I know no one cares about that, but I am setting the stage for paper plate use, which you can see solved at least some of the problems. The paper usage then became a habit, which we are in the process now of breaking, since we live at home full time now in retirement.

Anyway, that's all about where this OP came from.

[George the original one]

Humorous thought: if everybody switches to paper plates, then future archeologists will only be able to use toilet bowl fragments for our pottery style...
If we continue consuming the designer patterns, then the archeologists will call us the "jumble period" as there won't be any single dominant style.

[Q]

I have too many plates 1st off.
2nd - here in the Bay area, McD's and the like do use compostable and or recyclable materials... it's the norm now (here at least).
I have plates extra for guests because I tend to have a lot of guests. I kinda like the idea of the fine china rotation to be honest. At least she used the fine china, some people just leave it in the case!
The water usage vs. creation vs. non throwaway plates reminds me of my daily coffee self-argument - I used to buy it from starbux or McD's quite a bit. Now I make it at home for FAR less and factored in nearly every cost and it comes up to around .35 cents for every mug full - that's the water, sugar, milk, beans, electricity, etc etc etc.
I think, for all it's worth and the back and forth, that cutting down on whatever your few vices might be is a big plus any way you personally look at it. we ain't perfect and, cmon now, there is only one shot at this game of life. It's not an excuse to waste at all, just that balance (fun phrase of ERE), is key.

[HSpencer]

Just reading in "Country Living" magazine, where a lady has a collection of 119 Oyster plates and has them all hung on the wall.

A rather "busy" wall I would say.

[orinoco]

@gibberade
not eating meat isn't necessarily the solution nice summary of why here. You'll need to talk to a lot of farmers before you find one who raises their livestock like this though.

[veganprimate]

I know this is an old post, but I'm gonna chime in anyway.
With regards to whether it's cheaper to use paper plates versus all the heated water and whatnot to wash regular plates, Amy Dacyczyn did an experiment with regards to paper napkins versus cloth napkins. She calculated the cost of getting the cheapest napkins on sale, and she calculated the electricity of doing a full load of just cloth napkins. The cloth napkins were cheaper to use by a cent or two, but in reality, she would never use the washer for a full load of napkins. There would be a few tossed in with other laundry, so the cost of cloth napkins is even cheaper. I'm going to assume the same thing would pan out with the plate issue, although I think if one used a dishwasher, it might not. Handwashing the dishes would certainly be cheaper. And even if you use paper plates, you are still cooking in pots and pans and using electricity for the stove and oven, right?

[George the original one]

> And even if you use paper plates, you are still

> cooking in pots and pans and using electricity

> for the stove and oven, right?
Oooo, veganprimate, you do raise an interesting point!
Imagine a cookbook on how to prepare meals in a microwave oven and BBQ with just paperware so there are no dishes to wash. Sounds like a dream for someone... not for me, but it might be interesting to investigate the possibilities.

[AlexOliver]

@George: Just get TV dinners, prepare it in the plastic container, eat it with plastic forks, throw away when done.

[InterfaceLeader]

I find washing plates very quick and easy. It's the pots and pans that require the work...
To be honest, we eat a lot of soups and stews, so eat 80% of our meals out of a bowl anyway. It probably depends a lot on what you eat, and how often.

[fiby41]

Plates and bowls made out of stitched leaves for disposing.

This is Palaash (B monosperma) but banana, palm- areca and others varieties, olive leaves are also used depending on tradition, manufacturing company or geographical availability.