What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

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jacob
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by jacob »

I also prefer spending except it's often confounded by housing costs. Compare

$15000 spending but lives in parent's basement for $0 cost.
$15000 spending but owns house and pays $5000 in RE taxes.
$15000 spending but owns house and pays $1000 in RE taxes.
$15000 spending but pays $10000 in rent per year.
$15000 spending but pays $2000 in rent for caretaking services.

Not all spendings are created equal.

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Sclass
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by Sclass »

Time and freedom are a big deal. They aren't really a bauble, but I was really impressed (and doubting) when I saw Charlie Rose go through Warren Buffet's weekly minder. It had a line here and there about lunch with somebody but it was for the most part empty. Maybe it was done for show and he had a personal assistant carrying an outlook calendar for him. You'd think a guy who controls so much needs to do some controlling every now and then.

His point is he didn't want to be bothered with tasks or meetings. It was impressive in an FI way.

I have a collection of vintage watches. One time a rich guy (heir to his grandpas movie empire) said, "that's a nice watch." i was suprised that somebody actually knew what it was. The rest of my slum pals ask me if my dad gave me that old junk when I graduated high school. So this kind of confirms Jacob's impress up/down description. I happened to know this guy through a sports connection. He was a serious XXXXX player and paid for private lessons beyond our regular classes so he could be the best. He actually told me this after giving me a handy trouncing. It all kind of hangs with the sports theory of status.

An interesting side point on watches and watchmaking skills is that a few of my watches came from two watch repairmen who were both rich kids. One had old rich roots starting from postwar mobile home parks in LA. The other was the son of a well known semiconductor tycoon. And what did they do? They bought up old watches, fixed them, collected and sold. Both of them were actually encouraged to go get horological skills by their dads who were watch geeks. After failing at college and jobs they both finally succeeded as collectors and craftsmen. At the prices I bought for I suspect their hourly wages were low. It was the lifestyle they were after.

Maybe like James Johnson being encouraged to start an old map or book collection by his dad in Born Rich.

chenda
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by chenda »

The shortest career...

dot_com_vet
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by dot_com_vet »

It's not a 'symbol', but I asked someone at a party where they worked. They simply replied, "They don't".

I thought that was brilliant, and made a huge impression. As I know them more now, I'm pretty sure the have some great passive income.

The Old Man
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by The Old Man »

http://www.willskinner.com/
Essay: “A Study of Social Class in America”

FI/ERE Status Symbols

FI/ERE Status Symbols cannot be bought with cash. A person is FI/ERE for the obvious reason that they thought their time was worth more than money; therefore, FI/ERE status symbols are by definition intangible.

I believe a FI/ERE person values and thus status symbols are more closely related to the Upper Class. The Upper Class person by definition does not work for a living. Likewise by definition, the FI/ERE person does not work for a living. For the moment let us put aside the argument that some people consider some FI/ERE people not to be retired because of some paying job; likewise there are some Upper Class people that have paying jobs (i.e. member of a board of directors requiring a few hours a year for which they are compensated) for which some may cast scorn (Are they really upper class?).

The Upper Class person does not buy their house (or castle) and definitely does not buy their own furniture. Such purchases are the mark of the lower orders. Alas, while they do have vehicles they did not buy (i.e. museum pieces), quite often they do buy vehicles due to the life expectancy of the typical vehicle. Sounds like an extreme version of a FI/ERE person – no?

The Upper Class values that which cannot be bought.

Upper Class = retirement at birth, due to their ancestors and preferable grandparents or earlier
FI/ERE = retirement early, due to their own efforts
Middle Class = retirement, due to a combination of their own efforts, pension, and social security
Lower Class = retirement, due to government support

An FI/ERE class is not part of the standard social class system, but I believe it would fall between Upper Class and Middle Class. I also think it is interesting that there is such conflict between the FI/ERE and the Middle Class, because the same exists between the Upper Class and Middle Class and for much of the same reasons.

FI/ERE status symbols are intangible.

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Ego
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by Ego »

champ0608 wrote:I've always looked at skills as status.....
If it wasn't a skill it wasn't a accomplishment in my mind.
I think champ got it.

Status comes from what we can do and from what we have done.

BeyondtheWrap
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by BeyondtheWrap »

One time at an ERE meetup when the others had their smartphones out, I proudly displayed my cheap, several-year-old, prepaid dumbphone. One of the others exclaimed, "Oh, that's so cool! I really want one of those!"

So that was my status symbol.

jacob
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by jacob »

Wait, what? Some of you have smartphones?!? You need to be excommunicated :-D

stand@desk
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by stand@desk »

I would think that the ERE status symbol is your FI spreadsheet.
Love this answer..exactly what I was thinking. Also, well used and worn material goods but only a few of them.

JohnnyH
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by JohnnyH »

Health, freedom, contentedness... Having one foot in the old world (work an hour a day, traditional skills, enjoyment in the simple) and on in the new (via computer and internet mostly).

Rather than SWR or savings I like monthly expenditures as they approach zero... Like Jacob said, housing costs screw with this but I think that is just another problem to solve... Pretty sure I can get my [completely middle class] life under $200 a month (even in a zip where houses avg > 200k).

I am also partial to nearly indestructible tool sets that create things.

Practical skills: EMT, trapper, gardener, distiller, mechanic, plumber, carpentry, programmer, electrician, languages, martial arts, survivalism, navigation/orienteering.

Can't really think of any one item, like a watch, I'd consider status worthy... Sometimes I want a watch, but then I come to my senses... 90% of the time I can accurately judge. Once I retire 90% of the time punctuality will be irrelevant.
Last edited by JohnnyH on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by plantingourpennies »

The problem with spreadsheets, SWRs, etc is that they don't function in public the same way the Birkin bag does-they don't message to other classes what your standing in the world is.

Care-worn clothes paired with a vintage watch might be the closest think I can think of-the mended bag and the old (but well-maintained) bicycle too.

A set of physical items that encapsulate the paradox of having significant resources at your disposal but using almost none of them.

Or maybe just a tattoo of a pressure cooker on your bicep =)

George the original one
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by George the original one »

> Time and freedom are a big deal.

Definitely.

Here's the scenario: friend (or spouse) asks, "would you like to do X?"

Those without time and freedom have to answer: "I'll see if I can get the time off" or "oh, we have to go do Y at that time, but maybe I can fit it in if we start early"

Those with time and freedom can answer: "Yes!" or "No, doesn't sound appealing"

1taskaday
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by 1taskaday »

To me the status symbol for FI/ERE can never be an object as it must convey a lifestyle and a personal choice.

Maybe controversial and viewed as discriminatory BUT...

The status symbol for me which symbolises FI/ERE is

1. Bright alive and alert eyes.
2. Looking lean, fit and full of energy.
3. Dressed simply, usually jeans.
4. Wearing comfortable flat shoes so one can move fast.
5. Non-high maintenance hair style. (Female ERE'ers).
6. A non-conformist-the look of ... without being contrived.
7. An open mind to any new information or ideas.


If I had to only pick one of these to symbolise FI/ERE it would all about the "alive eyes"

saving-10-years
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by saving-10-years »

+1 time and freedom

I am consiidering the tattoo of a pressure cooker tho. ;-)

Stahlmann
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by Stahlmann »

time, money, health.

after giving it a thought (in this order):
mental health, physical health, time, money.

nomadscientist
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by nomadscientist »

FIRE is itself a sort of status symbol. The problem is it works less well as a status symbol the more people do it. It isn't inherently high status, but situationally high status because it is both difficult and unusual. This, rather than interest rate suppression, is the main reason FIRE will never be mainstream.

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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by white belt »

I agree with some other posts that Renaissance Skills and time are the true ERE status symbols. Skills are far more valuable than net worth or even cashflow, because a true Renaissance Man has the skill to conjure up anything he needs through his own skill or connections. Time to pursue any interest you want is also quite a luxury.

I strive to really maximize the different areas to include economic, technical, intellectual, social, ecological, physiological, and emotional.

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unemployable
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by unemployable »

I have tan lines on my feet from my sandals.

That strikes me as a clear marker that one lives a life of leisure.

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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by Hristo Botev »

- Craftsman skills (of which I'm sorely lacking; but I'm working on it)
- Fixit skills (same*)
- Time, evident in those folks who you know, even though they have family and "work" (read: business) responsibilities of their own, will always be the first to volunteer to help when someone asks for it (I'm getting better on this one)
- A home curiously below what the Muggles would expect for you (check)
- Unconventional transportation choices (also check**)
- Your almost complete ignorance of and disinterest in the restaurant scene (apart from the fact that, as serendipity would have it, you personally know many of the restaurateurs, as entrepreneurial types who think outside the 9-5 box tend to run in the same circles and can spot one another from across a room)
- Your almost complete ignorance of and disinterest in whatever the hot binge-watch show of the moment is--you might get around to watching it when it's available at the library on DVD in a year or so (compare: your curiously expansive knowledge (relatively speaking) of the great books and great ideas of the world, and your ability as a result of that knowledge to see patterns, themes, historical antecedents, etc.)

* I have a lot of work to improve on this one, but I did have a friend notice the patch job I'd done on the elbow of a dress shirt the other day, and he asked me what seamstress I used. When I told him I'd done it myself, he didn't believe me.

** After I drop my kids off at school in the mornings, I always get curious side glances from acquaintances who also have kids at the school, as they drive past me while I walk to work. Those acquaintances with whom I'm closer usually just honk or yell something clever out their window. It's always a fun way to start the day.

stand@desk
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Re: What's the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd?

Post by stand@desk »

Status Symbol for ERE?

Flat stomach and lean body.

Cash in your trading account.

Drinking Tea and Coffee on an empty stomach.

Watching Podcasts like Joe Rogan and Rich Roll on anti-aging.

Squandering a few dollars on trinkets at the Thrift store with your wife and daughter and then using them.

Your old beater car from the 2000s which is in way better shape then when we were in the 2000s and the beaters were from the 1980s.

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