Early Retirement Super Extreme

[prosaic]

SW,

I had a job with loads if free time, but not the kind of surveillance you're describing! If writing to eventually publish (i.e. fiction, nonfiction books) is a goal, consider some kind of device that (nearly) seamlessly fits in, like a NEO Alphasmart. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AlphaSmart-NEO- ... 2ece79ac25

It looks like a keyboard, does not use Internet, lives on AA batteries for months, and your work is undetectable by bosses. You could slide it into a keyboard drawer and write on it, then swap it out and go home. You then use a USB cord to connect to a computer and download your writing.

Something even smaller would raise suspicion, though you could do that, too, like a bluetooth keyboard attached to an iPhone/iPod for notes. If you're trying to find ways to subversively do something that benefits you outside of work, then even writing longhand and stockpiling manuscripts for when you have more free time is a way to feel less trapped.

[JohnnyH]

Good job with your changes at work... I think you came to the logical decision. I hope you find your office time more rewarding now. FWIW, I don't think work from home is political and/or will vanish... Just government grudgingly going along with the inevitable. I think even they are smart enough to realize how it increases retention/productivity and lowers costs.

The costs in the country sound great, BUT that 2 hour commute sounds like hell... Whenever I had to drive to work that was always the worst part of my day. By far.

Perhaps you could practice by taking a 2 hour long bus/train ride for 2 weeks... It will be like that only multiples more expensive, laborious and dangerous.

[JasonR]

o

[vern]

Tom Hodgkinson has written about this subject in his books How to be Idle and The Freedom Manifesto. (I highly recommend both!)

It boils down to finding something you enjoy doing, trying to do it from home, and only working a few hours a day.

http://www.lowdensitylifestyle.com/livi ... idle-life/

[GPMagnus]

SW

I feel your dilemma and I am happy the thread is so active. A few random thoughts:

* As for the house, have you thought about FSBO-ing it? That alone will save you a good chunk of money.
* Use the time at work to study languages - perhaps you can leverage your govt job to go do some govt overseas work?! If not, study some finance - get the CFAI level 1 texts or some Schweser notes and "enjoy"

[Spartan_Warrior]

There isn't much in the way of public transportation from eastern panhandle of WV to Baltimore. There is a MARC train out of Martinsburg, but it goes to DC before it hits Baltimore for a total one-way trip time of 4 hours. Obviously not an option for that reason alone, but on top of that, I work a 10 hour day and the arrival/departure times don't work.

A few years ago I could reliably make about $25/hr online via freelance writing. The work was boring and sporadic, though. Might be able to make about $400/mo from that; more if I really needed to. That would probably sustain a bare minimum existence for a while. I think I will start looking into that income source again, just to see if it's an option.

We've discussed leaving the country; doesn't seem likely to fly with GF. It sounds fun to me, but even I'd want to come home eventually. I do like being close to friends and family, thus why WV is appealing: dirt cheap but still in commuting distance.

Anyway, after several snow days throughout February, I think I've only been in the office two or three times. The distance has helped mellow me out and I haven't been (as) pissed about the whole thing. Meanwhile, my net worth is up 4k for the month and I haven't even gotten my second paycheck. Even though I hate this job and feel like it's physically and psychologically damaging, I'm also afraid to give up my current situation, and cognizant that it will be hard to find a better one in terms of accumulation.

It's also occurred to me that at this point they very likely want me to quit so they can get someone more servile. I see no reason to make it so easy on them. This whole retiring at my desk thing seems to be working. Since the main thing they seem to care about is a warm body occupying my cubicle for exactly 10.5 hours, though it is inhumane, patronizing, and terrible management, it's ultimately not that hard for me to supply. The rest I'll half-ass just enough not to get fired. It usually takes less than two hours a week.

So for now, I'm staying put, building my liquid resources, and keeping an eye out for opportunities. Gonna start freelancing as well and see how feasible it is as an income source (either supplemental or primary).

[jezter6]

Hey Spartan. Fellow Baltimoron here. I've also done a bit of research on the whole moving to WV and attempting some sort of commute and semi-retirement until I reached my FIRE point.

The problem is WV is getting more expensive by the year. That WV panhandle is getting a LOT of DC suburb movement for commuters to Silver Spring and NoVA.

Are you looking for a place with land, to do a little homesteading to supplement retirement (gardens for food, chickens, etc) or just looking for a low expense place, likely with little to no land and neighbors right in your grill?

And the commute sucks, both to DC and Baltimore. That I-70/270 merge in Fredneck is just a nightmare, and even when you get to Baltimore, you still have the beltway to deal with.

Have you thought about looking for jobs in Aberdeen? If you've got Gov experience, there's a lot of jobs available up there, and parts of Harford county and good portions of Cecil county are much cheaper than in suburban Baltimore at least for a short period of time while you stockpile.

If you ever feel like a chat (or a brew), drop me a PM.

-jezter6 (currently in Joppa, moving to Darlington)

[Spartan_Warrior]

@jezter6:

Are you looking for a place with land, to do a little homesteading to supplement retirement (gardens for food, chickens, etc) or just looking for a low expense place, likely with little to no land and neighbors right in your grill?

Well, right now I have a high expense place with neighbors right in my grill so either of the presented alternatives would be an improvement. Ideally though, we'd like a little land (> 1 acre), and it sure seems cheaper there.

I work on the far western side of Baltimore and wouldn't have to contend with the Beltway either way, thankfully. (I'm on the opposite side of the city from you--just over the border into Carroll County, near Eldersburg.) I still agree that the commute seems too insane, especially since I can barely tolerate the one I have now!

I have been thinking about expanding my job search to other areas, mostly DC, although it is expensive. I'll have to see what agencies are up in Aberdeen.

Good thinking on the brew. That might help me cope too. In fact, I think I'll start a meet up thread. Cheers!

[jezter6]

The reason I asked - I was at one point interviewing for a job down near Dulles, and was investigating an area of WV called Shannondale. I went down there to look around in person, and it was a little too tight for me, but it's a little community basically a mix of fairly small cabins, up to some pretty fancy "luxury" cabins, but I was able to see a fair number of places for something like $85k or so. Everything was right around the 1100-1200 sqft size, so nothing too big. The problem (for me) was that they were just packed in there in little 1/8 or less acres.

Would be nice if 90% of them were just summer only cabins for most people, but it was very much an active community. One lane roads, many of them gravel/dirt. They have a forum where there are some crime issues, mostly just juvenile delinquents on quads and minor burglaries. That turned me off a bit too.

When I first started looking out there, you could get a townhouse for about $100-120k somewhere between Harper's Ferry and Charlestown. When I last looked (over a year and half ago) it seemed like it was going up. Last I was out there, the main bridge across 340 seemed to always have some backups near rush hour, and I got caught a couple times in Frederick during rush hour.

That said, I think the growth potential is there, if you can find something fairly cheap now, that if you decide later to head further out (I prefer something out towards maybe Berkeley Springs) that you might be able to get your money back.

I think as places like Silver Spring get more congested, more and more people are moving out past Leesburg and up towards the WV split. There's a mass transit line that runs through Martinsburg to Harper's Ferry and down to the DC metro. If you hook up on that, you get probably an hour ride where you can get some reading done.

There's an IRS (I think) hub out in Martinsburg. I know there's a bunch of fed gov jobs out there when I was looking. Sadly, that's about it for the job world. Tech (my field) is pretty well empty there.

[NPV]

@KevinW - The 2-flat approach is popular in Chicago. Spend $200k on the building, rent for $1200/month. Live free.

Are you saying "buy for 200k cash, then live off the rent" or "buy for 200k mortgage and the rent will cover interest and taxes"? I find it hard to believe the latter (but would be very happy to get some pointers to more reading on that), and I do not see how the former is better than investing the cash in stocks & bonds and renting.

[jacob]

@NPV -

Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious but a 2-flat is two flats in a house, one on top of the other. You live in one and rent the other one out.

$200k at 4% is 8k per year in interest.
Taxes for something like this is $5-6k (see redfin listings).

Rent is 12*1200 = 14.4k.

Which investment is better depends on your risk profile and expected market returns.

[NPV]

@Jacob -

Sounds pretty awesome - sounds like a free apartment, no less. It's interesting that real estate market is inefficient enough to allow this arbitrage. I wonder why more people don't do this, provided the assumptions hold.

It's also interesting how persistent this rent-to-buy TCO ratio is historically and geographically; this might be a short-term anomaly of a specific local market.

[arebelspy]

Just read the whole thread. I feel for you, SW.

Sounds like you're doing the smart thing trying to stick it out for a bit.

You really should look into refinancing and see what a 30-year mortgage would do for you - you don't have to pull the trigger on it, but see how that would change your situation, getting a 30-year and renting it out.

Be careful you don't push your GF too hard on things she may not be totally on board with.

Sounds pretty awesome - sounds like a free apartment, no less. It's interesting that real estate market is inefficient enough to allow this arbitrage. I wonder why more people don't do this, provided the assumptions hold.

It's also interesting how persistent this rent-to-buy TCO ratio is historically and geographically; this might be a short-term anomaly of a specific local market.

Buy a duplex and live rent free (or heavily subsidized) is a very common idea, it's not a short term anomaly. It's frequently discussed as a primary way to get into real estate investing in real estate blogs, books, etc. since the '70s, at least. The primary reason being that you can buy it as an "owner occupant" (locking up a cheaper interest rate than if it were an investment property, and letting you put down less money than if it were an investment property).

Example article discussing this: http://realestateinyourtwenties.com/blo ... should-be/

Then after a year or two you move on to the next one, rent out both sides (and one side of your new one), repeat.

Most people just don't want to deal with being a landlord.