Early Retirement Super Extreme
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
You mentioned you'd like to build a house. Are you at all interested in carpentry? An apprenticeship (in Chicago, not sure elsewhere) starts around $36k and by the end of the 4th year you're making $64k. You would gain a valuable skill and more money to add to your savings. It takes more time than the other ideas but still a potential option
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Reminded me of this: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/off ... mble_x.htmUrbanHermit wrote: [*]go down to vegas with $15k in your pocket. Put it all down on one number on the roulette table, one spin only. 1 in 36 chance you walk out with a half million in the bank and can retire.
-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15995
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
@theanimal - Yeah, it's funny how carpentry pays more than a PhD in physics and subsequent postdoctoral work all the way through. Probably because it's more useful!
One thing though, I looked at apprenticeships in CA. They paid about the same. They were, however, unionized carpenters, so I don't know how hard it would be to get in due to the limited number of spots. Also, when I was throwing the idea around, I was told that at 34 I was way too old (=physically) for the work because as an apprentice I would be hauling 2x4s upstairs all day long.
One thing though, I looked at apprenticeships in CA. They paid about the same. They were, however, unionized carpenters, so I don't know how hard it would be to get in due to the limited number of spots. Also, when I was throwing the idea around, I was told that at 34 I was way too old (=physically) for the work because as an apprentice I would be hauling 2x4s upstairs all day long.
-
George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Refinance to 30-yr if you're going to make it a rental. Presto-chango, through the late-night infomercial miracle of cashflow, you'd get an income from it.Spartan_Warrior wrote:Per Zillow, house would rent for $1644/mo (1.5k-1.9k range). Payment on 15-year mortgage is $1692.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
I read most of the threat at work and came back now to post this, though it has already been said more or less..
- You want to retire and not have to work. (or not do your current work)
- At work, you're only getting a few hours of work to do per day.
You're complaining about not having enough work - on a forum about not working!!
Make use of the time for yourself!
Maybe some of these are better left to when you're closer to pulling the trigger on other changes (unless you wouldn't mind getting fired... it sounds like right now you don't feel like you have much to lose though):
- Start doing whatever you would do if you were at home at that moment (within reason - mostly things you can do at a desk or computer)
- Write your books!! You can get paid by the government to do what you really want (and wouldn't be getting paid much for right now). Use password-protected files. Take in your own laptop and use that. Find a way or just wing it.
- Take books and read them
- Listen to music
- Etc..
I remember when I was in college and had two jobs. One was at a manufacturing company. I worked in R&D and would do tests myself sometimes. I was there on a weekend once doing a test. I'd have to set it up and start it, and then sit there for 15 minutes, do a quick check, and then start another test. I was in a research phase for my other job, so I took the reading material and read for those 15 minutes. Got paid for all the time from job #1, and I counted 45 minutes per hour as work for job 2. Getting paid by one company to do other work (or to do something you really like - or, when possible, BOTH) is pretty nice.
I read a biography of a famous rock star. In his late teens/early 20s, he worked in a warehouse overnight. He had to do very little work and mostly sit there waiting for some requests. So he brought his guitar there and wrote a boat load of songs.
Make all that spare time into a gift for yourself.
- You want to retire and not have to work. (or not do your current work)
- At work, you're only getting a few hours of work to do per day.
You're complaining about not having enough work - on a forum about not working!!
Make use of the time for yourself!
Maybe some of these are better left to when you're closer to pulling the trigger on other changes (unless you wouldn't mind getting fired... it sounds like right now you don't feel like you have much to lose though):
- Start doing whatever you would do if you were at home at that moment (within reason - mostly things you can do at a desk or computer)
- Write your books!! You can get paid by the government to do what you really want (and wouldn't be getting paid much for right now). Use password-protected files. Take in your own laptop and use that. Find a way or just wing it.
- Take books and read them
- Listen to music
- Etc..
I remember when I was in college and had two jobs. One was at a manufacturing company. I worked in R&D and would do tests myself sometimes. I was there on a weekend once doing a test. I'd have to set it up and start it, and then sit there for 15 minutes, do a quick check, and then start another test. I was in a research phase for my other job, so I took the reading material and read for those 15 minutes. Got paid for all the time from job #1, and I counted 45 minutes per hour as work for job 2. Getting paid by one company to do other work (or to do something you really like - or, when possible, BOTH) is pretty nice.
I read a biography of a famous rock star. In his late teens/early 20s, he worked in a warehouse overnight. He had to do very little work and mostly sit there waiting for some requests. So he brought his guitar there and wrote a boat load of songs.
Make all that spare time into a gift for yourself.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
+1 to what C40 said.
People are funny.
jacob wrote: ...Also, when I was throwing the idea around, I was told that at 34 I was way too old (=physically) for the work because as an apprentice I would be hauling 2x4s upstairs all day long.
People are funny.-
Riggerjack
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
having quite a bit of union construction experience myself, i'd like to point out:
#1 construction is the first hit by a downturn in the economy.
#2it is feast or famine. OT or short weeks/unemployment.
so, those salaries would be for 52 40 hr weeks, something i never saw in 10 years of union construction. some trades are more steady than others.
#3 all trades discourage apprentices, on the theory that if you can be discouraged before starting, you are likely to drop out before making journeyman, meaning they would be training a scab.
where i work, we use contract engineers to fill temporary demand. i spoke to one, in looking for a retirement safety net. he was a former engineer at the company i work at. he said he got paid better as an employee than as a contractor, but could "really clean up when double dipping". again, full time work takes 40 hrs a week, but maybe 10-20 of those are work. so he could work full time at the full time gig, then do piece work on the side.
If you don't mind the work, fill your day with contract piece work in the middle of your day. if necessary, use a laptop in your drawer and a kvm switch. retirement comes sooner and boredom goes away.
or write your stories on your smart phone/tablet.
#1 construction is the first hit by a downturn in the economy.
#2it is feast or famine. OT or short weeks/unemployment.
so, those salaries would be for 52 40 hr weeks, something i never saw in 10 years of union construction. some trades are more steady than others.
#3 all trades discourage apprentices, on the theory that if you can be discouraged before starting, you are likely to drop out before making journeyman, meaning they would be training a scab.
where i work, we use contract engineers to fill temporary demand. i spoke to one, in looking for a retirement safety net. he was a former engineer at the company i work at. he said he got paid better as an employee than as a contractor, but could "really clean up when double dipping". again, full time work takes 40 hrs a week, but maybe 10-20 of those are work. so he could work full time at the full time gig, then do piece work on the side.
If you don't mind the work, fill your day with contract piece work in the middle of your day. if necessary, use a laptop in your drawer and a kvm switch. retirement comes sooner and boredom goes away.
or write your stories on your smart phone/tablet.
-
Riggerjack
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
oh, and since you are coastal, and looking at other options, think about longshoremen's union. another job that does all it can to discourage new guys, with a 90% or so drop rate, but if you make it, the money's great, and entirely your own schedule. i've heard of guys working long weeks for a few months, then taking 9-10 months off, making 6 figures. since work is assigned by seniority, there is a scramble for hours to start, but that depends on how much you need or want.
but the catch is, at the bottom of the seniority list, you have to show up to see if you can work, and only get work if nobody else wants it. late shifts, bad weather and holidays are your only chance at work to start. after you build up to the higher seniority, you work whatever shifts you want, meaning you can work the OT schedule to your advantage. work/sleep/work/sleep ad nauseum, then take 9 months off. or however you want to work it.
that's how the seattle longshoremen's union works. it may be different over there on the wrong coast.
but the catch is, at the bottom of the seniority list, you have to show up to see if you can work, and only get work if nobody else wants it. late shifts, bad weather and holidays are your only chance at work to start. after you build up to the higher seniority, you work whatever shifts you want, meaning you can work the OT schedule to your advantage. work/sleep/work/sleep ad nauseum, then take 9 months off. or however you want to work it.
that's how the seattle longshoremen's union works. it may be different over there on the wrong coast.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Okay, that's three months to figure out how to cover your nut. There seems to be a future in the relationship, so is it time for the girlfriend to start playing an active role in covering the nut, so to speak?Spartan_Warrior wrote:Staying put and toughing it out (long term) no longer seems like a viable option. I've decided to set a maximum limit of 3 more months for my own sanity--April 18 will be my last day.
If so, how? That may be a necessary but uncomfortable conversation. Healthy couples attack problems like this as a team. It is not your problem alone. It is yours together. You don't have to know exactly where you want to go next. You don't have to know the exact steps you till take to move in a particular direction.
You do need to agree on the direction.
-
steelerfan
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:33 pm
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Sorry. Really long - somewhat of a rant. I enjoy this forum and this thread!
Older lurker here (51) - but a general observation is this site can turn into somewhat of a siren song for some. I have read several journals where people in a relatively short period go from being generally unfulfilled to going full on tilt gotta give their notice run for the hills/boat/shipping container/desert/van by the river. They end up considering choices that basically amount to running from a nonfulfilling one into an unknown. Often proposed plans have not even been given minimal due dilligence. To the credit of many here, the veterans try to back them off the ledge and offer sound advice.
As for me, like the OP, I am at the point where I am not horrendously challenged in my specialized job (financial reporting for an insurance company). However, I am not serving the time. Like prison, the time is serving me. I like/love my coworkers but there is no real career path here. I could find another similar job but 1)I make enough and 2)it would be more of the same and 3)I work 5 minutes from home. I can't work at home because my wife telecommutes and that would present challenges. I view myself at his point as a semi-secret pensioner which will rub some people the wrong way. Some people even here think somehow they are entitled to be handed my job because it is their time to shine. I have heard drivel like this from some millenials blaming boomers for the state of the workplace. Not always untrue - but I have seen too many whiners that feel they are above this task or that, and imply they are smart and everyone over 40 is a dope. Often the complainers can not be trusted to perform basic business tasks such as correspondence or even demonstrate proper decorum. Not the best way to gain my respect.
I spend lots of my time learning and applying skills that I can use for my job and in the event that I need to make a move. Using SAS and currently learning Python to solve problems for fun is really my passion. I can do accounting in the background while thinking about things of greater interest. I have even gone to the goofy step of using an abacus at work - which is fun and reinforces concentration (but is still slower than the 10 key ATM)! My bosses probably understand the way I am and generally leave me alone and even send me to classes that are somewhat unrelated to my job and more hobby related. Maybe they are hoping I will leave or find another gig! I streamline and automate tasks and even rewrite procedures/automate tasks my cooworkers are doing (but do not always share with them I have done so - not interested in making them feel threatened by writing scripts that same them too much time or replace them...joke). I don't feel especially appreciated so this is another form of compensation to me as it is sometimes on work time. Most is after work hobby time.
My advice is to the OP is to do your planning for your next jump at WORK while still drawing a salary. Consider some of the excellent advice given by others as a stopgap. Work is not always fun and it can be a drag at times especially if you allow your angst to fester. We have work volunteering opportunities and can sit on committees that serve the company out of the regular job. Seek out things like this and maybe you can get exposure in other areas and other folks that can lead to new directions. A lot of good can happen even in a sub optimal situation if you make the right contacts... Get them to pay for training in a peripheral interest if you can sell it to them. Leverage your existing skillset in new ways.
Good luck!
Older lurker here (51) - but a general observation is this site can turn into somewhat of a siren song for some. I have read several journals where people in a relatively short period go from being generally unfulfilled to going full on tilt gotta give their notice run for the hills/boat/shipping container/desert/van by the river. They end up considering choices that basically amount to running from a nonfulfilling one into an unknown. Often proposed plans have not even been given minimal due dilligence. To the credit of many here, the veterans try to back them off the ledge and offer sound advice.
As for me, like the OP, I am at the point where I am not horrendously challenged in my specialized job (financial reporting for an insurance company). However, I am not serving the time. Like prison, the time is serving me. I like/love my coworkers but there is no real career path here. I could find another similar job but 1)I make enough and 2)it would be more of the same and 3)I work 5 minutes from home. I can't work at home because my wife telecommutes and that would present challenges. I view myself at his point as a semi-secret pensioner which will rub some people the wrong way. Some people even here think somehow they are entitled to be handed my job because it is their time to shine. I have heard drivel like this from some millenials blaming boomers for the state of the workplace. Not always untrue - but I have seen too many whiners that feel they are above this task or that, and imply they are smart and everyone over 40 is a dope. Often the complainers can not be trusted to perform basic business tasks such as correspondence or even demonstrate proper decorum. Not the best way to gain my respect.
I spend lots of my time learning and applying skills that I can use for my job and in the event that I need to make a move. Using SAS and currently learning Python to solve problems for fun is really my passion. I can do accounting in the background while thinking about things of greater interest. I have even gone to the goofy step of using an abacus at work - which is fun and reinforces concentration (but is still slower than the 10 key ATM)! My bosses probably understand the way I am and generally leave me alone and even send me to classes that are somewhat unrelated to my job and more hobby related. Maybe they are hoping I will leave or find another gig! I streamline and automate tasks and even rewrite procedures/automate tasks my cooworkers are doing (but do not always share with them I have done so - not interested in making them feel threatened by writing scripts that same them too much time or replace them...joke). I don't feel especially appreciated so this is another form of compensation to me as it is sometimes on work time. Most is after work hobby time.
My advice is to the OP is to do your planning for your next jump at WORK while still drawing a salary. Consider some of the excellent advice given by others as a stopgap. Work is not always fun and it can be a drag at times especially if you allow your angst to fester. We have work volunteering opportunities and can sit on committees that serve the company out of the regular job. Seek out things like this and maybe you can get exposure in other areas and other folks that can lead to new directions. A lot of good can happen even in a sub optimal situation if you make the right contacts... Get them to pay for training in a peripheral interest if you can sell it to them. Leverage your existing skillset in new ways.
Good luck!
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
But...this is a problem that includes "fear of the unknown" (not just hard work to be equitably divided) and, generally, that means that somebody has to take the lead. Human beings don't tend towards simultaneously summoning up courage towards traversing a "dark alley" towards goal. First one person does it and then other(s) either respond or react.Ego said: Healthy couples attack problems like this as a team. It is not your problem alone. It is yours together.
Anyways, some reasons why somebody may not follow if you act and signal would include lack of trust, lack of respect or lack of shared vision/direction/motivation. Recognizing the last would tend towards healthy dissolution of relationship in some situations. No two people have the exact same "purpose in their masculine" so there will always be the tendency to head off in different directions. There are more or less healthy ways of mitigating this in order to maintain commitment to relationship. Often an unhappy rut is formed by adhering to the practices of compromise or consensus-building.
-
Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Like I said, I'm under Nazi-like surveillance both physically to enforce the cubicle time (no napping, no going for walks, essentially no leaving the cubicle longer than a 30 minute lunch break without catching crap and having leave time held for ransom) and electronically on the computer. A great many websites are randomly blocked, there is no wi-fi, walls are shielded, etc--and frankly I'm sure I'd eat shit if I tried to bring a personal laptop or any other device to work on. So I'm limited in what I can do--I either literally can't or don't want to risk things like writing at work (other than with pen and paper), freelancing/any other profitable activity, signing into personal email accounts or financial accounts, etc.
Basically my mitigation strategies are limited to watching TV/movies surreptitiously on my old iPod Touch, reading books, surfing Yahoo, and posting on ERE (the one personal thing I almost deliberately want them to see... sigh).
Now, having had some time and distance from the situation, I've been able to put things in perspective a bit. The federal government's current labor agreement does allow a great amount of flexibility, and I have exploited that to its fullest--I work a 10 hr/4 day week and two of the days (the maximum allowable) are worked from home. So I'm only in the office two days a week. I know this all sounds great, and it is. The problem is, while the policies are flexible, I can tell my managers are not. These are baby boomers who seem to believe that work necessarily entails time in a cubicle and that effective management means babysitting (that or they're just as bored as I am and need something to do). They pay lip service to the flexible policies because they have to, but it's very obvious they resent that I'm not in the office under their thumb, so they've evidently determined to make those two days in the office a living hell.
I'm not one to quit in a fit of rage without a clear direction where I'm going, but it's clear to me now that I've been in a state of burnout/meltdown in this position for some time (probably the flexible schedule was a golden handcuff that kept me tolerating it way longer than I should've) and that I need to make a change. At a minimum, I need to find new managers--"get the same BS from different assholes", as (IIRC) Riggerjack put it. (Though I've never gotten this amount of BS from any other of the other assholes I've worked for--that should've been an indicator right there.) I'm also sure that my original time frame of 7-8 more years is too long for me.
I already have the time-in-grade (aka time-in-cubicle) requirements to look for a higher salary position elsewhere in the agency. That would solve both the immediate problems of getting new assholes to take BS from and shortening my retirement time frame, while maintaining as much lifestyle continuity as possible. No wonder that's the conventional option.
That said, my GF and I have been talking about "super-extreme" measures like me cashing out to buy land and build a small cabin for under 50k, being self-sustaining while freelancing/working part-time as needed. (This is only "super-extreme" because I'd be doing it with way less capital than I originally intended and therefore with more pressure to be self-sustaining; otherwise this is the post-retirement goal we've been talking about for some time.) Today she said she was excited about raising livestock on a ranch/homestead, and that the only thing she doesn't like about that plan is being far away from her family here in MD. I think super-extreme measures are still on the table if all else fails...
@George: I just refinanced to 15-year @ 3.0% APR less than a year ago, after having the initial 30-year @ 4.75% for less than 2 years. I'd feel the strange urge to put a fork in my eye if I had to hand yet another banker $3k in closing fees and probably end up with a higher interest rate than I started with. But I may consider it if I do decide to leave. OTOH, it may be easier to just sell and take the ~40k in equity (after realty fees) and be thankful for three years of free rent. Not sure what direction the housing market's gonna take soon, but if rates are going up, I wonder.
Basically my mitigation strategies are limited to watching TV/movies surreptitiously on my old iPod Touch, reading books, surfing Yahoo, and posting on ERE (the one personal thing I almost deliberately want them to see... sigh).
Now, having had some time and distance from the situation, I've been able to put things in perspective a bit. The federal government's current labor agreement does allow a great amount of flexibility, and I have exploited that to its fullest--I work a 10 hr/4 day week and two of the days (the maximum allowable) are worked from home. So I'm only in the office two days a week. I know this all sounds great, and it is. The problem is, while the policies are flexible, I can tell my managers are not. These are baby boomers who seem to believe that work necessarily entails time in a cubicle and that effective management means babysitting (that or they're just as bored as I am and need something to do). They pay lip service to the flexible policies because they have to, but it's very obvious they resent that I'm not in the office under their thumb, so they've evidently determined to make those two days in the office a living hell.
I'm not one to quit in a fit of rage without a clear direction where I'm going, but it's clear to me now that I've been in a state of burnout/meltdown in this position for some time (probably the flexible schedule was a golden handcuff that kept me tolerating it way longer than I should've) and that I need to make a change. At a minimum, I need to find new managers--"get the same BS from different assholes", as (IIRC) Riggerjack put it. (Though I've never gotten this amount of BS from any other of the other assholes I've worked for--that should've been an indicator right there.) I'm also sure that my original time frame of 7-8 more years is too long for me.
I already have the time-in-grade (aka time-in-cubicle
) requirements to look for a higher salary position elsewhere in the agency. That would solve both the immediate problems of getting new assholes to take BS from and shortening my retirement time frame, while maintaining as much lifestyle continuity as possible. No wonder that's the conventional option. That said, my GF and I have been talking about "super-extreme" measures like me cashing out to buy land and build a small cabin for under 50k, being self-sustaining while freelancing/working part-time as needed. (This is only "super-extreme" because I'd be doing it with way less capital than I originally intended and therefore with more pressure to be self-sustaining; otherwise this is the post-retirement goal we've been talking about for some time.) Today she said she was excited about raising livestock on a ranch/homestead, and that the only thing she doesn't like about that plan is being far away from her family here in MD. I think super-extreme measures are still on the table if all else fails...
@George: I just refinanced to 15-year @ 3.0% APR less than a year ago, after having the initial 30-year @ 4.75% for less than 2 years. I'd feel the strange urge to put a fork in my eye if I had to hand yet another banker $3k in closing fees and probably end up with a higher interest rate than I started with.
But I may consider it if I do decide to leave. OTOH, it may be easier to just sell and take the ~40k in equity (after realty fees) and be thankful for three years of free rent. Not sure what direction the housing market's gonna take soon, but if rates are going up, I wonder.Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
It sounds like your working conditions are putting you under huge pressure. That might not be the best place to think through a long term decision. Maybe try to maneuver yourself into more humane conditions and then see where to set the sights for a revised ERE time frame?
For what it's worth, I was in a similar-sounding situation not too long ago-- a boring, irritating and pointless job and about a year's worth of expenses saved. I just left with the intention to get the pressure off. It took about 3 months to unwind and then I started having ideas about what I might want to do and what I need from a working environment. I took those ideas seriously and I'm now back to work in a completely different specialty and much more satisfied even having lost about half my income. All together I took 6 months off and was surprised to see I actually spent quite a bit less than half of the savings!
Good luck!
For what it's worth, I was in a similar-sounding situation not too long ago-- a boring, irritating and pointless job and about a year's worth of expenses saved. I just left with the intention to get the pressure off. It took about 3 months to unwind and then I started having ideas about what I might want to do and what I need from a working environment. I took those ideas seriously and I'm now back to work in a completely different specialty and much more satisfied even having lost about half my income. All together I took 6 months off and was surprised to see I actually spent quite a bit less than half of the savings!
Good luck!
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
This thread is intense, I feel like I've been here.. I both feel your pain and respect your resolve to change...
I was here a few years ago... I raged against the routine (awesome band name ), investing approached gambling as I attempted to get closer to a "comfortable" number. Be vigilantly on the lookout for self-destructive behaviors... Anyway I stayed, maybe age mellowed me a little bit because I guess I sort of made friends with the prison... I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Probably bad.
But the cautionary realist in me says take action from a position of strength, not weakness... Focus on the positive, divide your earnings by the 20 hours you have to spend in the office. You're not going to get close to that anywhere else... When you're doing some repetitive, dirty, hot highly unpleasant task as manual laborer you might look back at your cubicle fondly.
+1 to everything C40 said.
If you get called on bringing a personal laptop, oh well... you tried. I'd bring in a device and blatantly have open a work related PDF on said laptop or tablet... Train them to accept it... If nothing else I'd think an e-ink reader on a stand would be a perfectly reasonable thing for a technical writer to have.
Should that fail, there are still options. It sounds like I have a similar job situation... Here are some of the things I've done:
*Personal laptop; I keep the brightness down so no one knows what I'm looking at.
*I'm guessing you have no admi, but you likely can still run .exe that require no installation... I've ran exe's from entire virtual machines, to portable TOR browser (gets around all work website bans), to AdventureGameStudio games.
*Read thousands of epubs/pdfs/websites I've downloaded from home.
Western MD has some excellent farmland. Perhaps you could rent a primitive cabin for a year and escape there 4/7 days a week... Godspeed.
I was here a few years ago... I raged against the routine (awesome band name
), investing approached gambling as I attempted to get closer to a "comfortable" number. Be vigilantly on the lookout for self-destructive behaviors... Anyway I stayed, maybe age mellowed me a little bit because I guess I sort of made friends with the prison... I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Probably bad.But the cautionary realist in me says take action from a position of strength, not weakness... Focus on the positive, divide your earnings by the 20 hours you have to spend in the office. You're not going to get close to that anywhere else... When you're doing some repetitive, dirty, hot highly unpleasant task as manual laborer you might look back at your cubicle fondly.
+1 to everything C40 said.
I think at this point, it's definitely worth a shot... You're leaving in a few months, so what do you have to lose?... Never underestimate the [government] supervisor's capacity for laziness and incompetence.Spartan_Warrior wrote:... I'm sure I'd eat shit if I tried to bring a personal laptop or any other device to work on.
If you get called on bringing a personal laptop, oh well... you tried. I'd bring in a device and blatantly have open a work related PDF on said laptop or tablet... Train them to accept it... If nothing else I'd think an e-ink reader on a stand would be a perfectly reasonable thing for a technical writer to have.
Should that fail, there are still options. It sounds like I have a similar job situation... Here are some of the things I've done:
*Personal laptop; I keep the brightness down so no one knows what I'm looking at.
*I'm guessing you have no admi, but you likely can still run .exe that require no installation... I've ran exe's from entire virtual machines, to portable TOR browser (gets around all work website bans), to AdventureGameStudio games.
*Read thousands of epubs/pdfs/websites I've downloaded from home.
I think this sounds like a great plan, but I'd practice first. Get good at it while there is no pressure... Turn your house into a duplex and rent half... Put a jihad on expenses until you've got a decade in expenses.Spartan_Warrior wrote:That said, my GF and I have been talking about "super-extreme" measures like me cashing out to buy land and build a small cabin for under 50k, being self-sustaining while freelancing/working part-time as needed. (This is only "super-extreme" because I'd be doing it with way less capital than I originally intended and therefore with more pressure to be self-sustaining; otherwise this is the post-retirement goal we've been talking about for some time.) Today she said she was excited about raising livestock on a ranch/homestead, and that the only thing she doesn't like about that plan is being far away from her family here in MD. I think super-extreme measures are still on the table if all else fails...
Western MD has some excellent farmland. Perhaps you could rent a primitive cabin for a year and escape there 4/7 days a week... Godspeed.
-
Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
I did some rudimentary actuarial-type estimates of several options: continuing as I am, quitting job without moving, quitting job and renting house, quitting job and selling house, selling/renting house without quitting, etc) and I was rather disappointed to find that continuing as I am seems to be the top contender.
Even if I refinance my house to 30 year, it seems like it would be difficult to get enough in rent to reliably cover my mortgage payment, given the standard advice is that rental profit = rent / 2. The current 15 year mortgage is ~1700/mo and a 30 year refinance would be ~1250/mo, and per Zillow the house could rent for ~1650. I was optimistic in my estimates and pegged monthly profit from renting at $1000. Still gonna cost me to hold the property for the foreseeable future, unless rent increases substantially.
While looking at options, I became aware of how cheap real estate and property taxes are in West Virginia. I could replace my 3bd 2ba SFH on .25 acres (valued at $260k) for a similarly sized 3bd 2ba double wide on .75 acres (selling for $90k). Going even more rustic, there are vacation-style cabins and bungalows on several acres of land for $75-100k. If I sold my house and dipped into savings, I could almost afford one of these properties outright, and taxes are only about 300-500 a year (versus ~2.5k in MD). I've even gotten my GF excited about how cheap the cost of living would be. (Excited enough for her to finally consent to the thought of living in a mobile home.)
The problem is this location is ~2 hours out from my job in Baltimore. My round-trip commute would go from about 30 miles to 200 miles a day. I would need to replace my old beater car and my expenses on commuting would sky rocket, to the point where (based on my calculations) this option would really only get me about $100 more toward my net worth per day versus what I'm doing now. Not to mention, commuting is my least favorite part of having a job.
Option 1: Move to West Virginia, buy cheap place outright:
Income: 4600
Expenses: 1000
~100 Housing
~400 Car
~150 Food
~100 Utilities
~50 Internet
~100 Misc
~100 Health Insurance
Saving: 3600
Option B: Continue as I am in mortgaged MD SFH:
Income: 4600
Expenses: 2300
~1700 Housing
~100 Car
~150 Food
~100 Utilities
~50 Internet
~100 Misc
~100 Health Insurance
Savings: 3300
~2300 Basic Savings (Income - Expenses)
~1000 Mortgage Principle
Ultimately I suppose the WV option is probably better, because all my monthly savings goes toward the actual FI fund (rather than some going to home equity) and my basic living expenses are much lower. I haven't done the exact calculations, but I suppose it would decrease my time to FI to about 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's worth the added hassle of the extra driving (and what if I lose the flexible schedule? The federal labor agreement changes occasionally, and to the whims of whatever political party holds power. Not to get political here, but Republicans love both giving hand outs to oil companies and beating up on the federal worker scapegoat, so I wouldn't be too surprised to see the telecommuting benefit dry up in the future under a Republican administration.)
So, long story short, no solution in sight for achieving super-extreme early retirement.
While I keep looking for external ways to decrease my job-reliance/time to FI, I've shifted my focus toward my internal experience of the day job. Counting the money as it goes into my net worth helps ("Okay, been here three hours, that's $120 in my FI fund..."). I also said fuck it and started writing on my work computer. I'm trying to give more structure to my day--e.g., from 8:00 to 10:00 I work on writing, from 10:00 to 11:00 I work on job-hunting, from 11:00 to 12:00 I read, etc. So far this is helping a little.
Sad but true. When I look at it that way, I'm adding $400-450 to my net worth per day in the office. No matter what I do with the house, quitting the job would force me to dip into savings substantially enough that I would still need other work, and I can't imagine any other job or lifestyle that would increase my worth by almost $1000/wk without requiring substantially more effort.Focus on the positive, divide your earnings by the 20 hours you have to spend in the office. You're not going to get close to that anywhere else...
Even if I refinance my house to 30 year, it seems like it would be difficult to get enough in rent to reliably cover my mortgage payment, given the standard advice is that rental profit = rent / 2. The current 15 year mortgage is ~1700/mo and a 30 year refinance would be ~1250/mo, and per Zillow the house could rent for ~1650. I was optimistic in my estimates and pegged monthly profit from renting at $1000. Still gonna cost me to hold the property for the foreseeable future, unless rent increases substantially.
While looking at options, I became aware of how cheap real estate and property taxes are in West Virginia. I could replace my 3bd 2ba SFH on .25 acres (valued at $260k) for a similarly sized 3bd 2ba double wide on .75 acres (selling for $90k). Going even more rustic, there are vacation-style cabins and bungalows on several acres of land for $75-100k. If I sold my house and dipped into savings, I could almost afford one of these properties outright, and taxes are only about 300-500 a year (versus ~2.5k in MD). I've even gotten my GF excited about how cheap the cost of living would be. (Excited enough for her to finally consent to the thought of living in a mobile home.)
The problem is this location is ~2 hours out from my job in Baltimore. My round-trip commute would go from about 30 miles to 200 miles a day. I would need to replace my old beater car and my expenses on commuting would sky rocket, to the point where (based on my calculations) this option would really only get me about $100 more toward my net worth per day versus what I'm doing now. Not to mention, commuting is my least favorite part of having a job.
Option 1: Move to West Virginia, buy cheap place outright:
Income: 4600
Expenses: 1000
~100 Housing
~400 Car
~150 Food
~100 Utilities
~50 Internet
~100 Misc
~100 Health Insurance
Saving: 3600
Option B: Continue as I am in mortgaged MD SFH:
Income: 4600
Expenses: 2300
~1700 Housing
~100 Car
~150 Food
~100 Utilities
~50 Internet
~100 Misc
~100 Health Insurance
Savings: 3300
~2300 Basic Savings (Income - Expenses)
~1000 Mortgage Principle
Ultimately I suppose the WV option is probably better, because all my monthly savings goes toward the actual FI fund (rather than some going to home equity) and my basic living expenses are much lower. I haven't done the exact calculations, but I suppose it would decrease my time to FI to about 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's worth the added hassle of the extra driving (and what if I lose the flexible schedule? The federal labor agreement changes occasionally, and to the whims of whatever political party holds power. Not to get political here, but Republicans love both giving hand outs to oil companies and beating up on the federal worker scapegoat, so I wouldn't be too surprised to see the telecommuting benefit dry up in the future under a Republican administration.)
So, long story short, no solution in sight for achieving super-extreme early retirement.
While I keep looking for external ways to decrease my job-reliance/time to FI, I've shifted my focus toward my internal experience of the day job. Counting the money as it goes into my net worth helps ("Okay, been here three hours, that's $120 in my FI fund..."). I also said fuck it and started writing on my work computer. I'm trying to give more structure to my day--e.g., from 8:00 to 10:00 I work on writing, from 10:00 to 11:00 I work on job-hunting, from 11:00 to 12:00 I read, etc. So far this is helping a little.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Mobile homes tend to depreciate, stick homes to appreciate. Might be something to factor in to your calcs.
Other than that, be really careful about trying to drag your lady along. If she changes her mind it might be expensive to "fix".
Other than that, be really careful about trying to drag your lady along. If she changes her mind it might be expensive to "fix".
-
saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
- Location: Warwickshire, UK
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Maybe you also need to add in some actuarial calculation of the time that it would take to sell your property, find a new one and also the extra commuting. That is time when you could be writing or otherwise doing what you want to do?
-
George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
The thing to do is keep your options open, have plans, and be prepared to take action when opportunity arises. Maintain adequate funds on the taxable side as an enabler, avoid being property-rich and cash-poor.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
Is there an option to turn even a part of this into writing time by taking a train/bus?Spartan_Warrior wrote:The problem is this location is ~2 hours out from my job in Baltimore. My round-trip commute would go from about 30 miles to 200 miles a day.
I was afraid of my current 2 hr "commute" to the main office 1-2 times a week, but it has turned out to be a very productive time on the train-- a set block of time with no interruptions.
Re: Early Retirement Super Extreme
1) figure out how to make money online
2) move somewhere cheap like Vietnam, Thailand, Colombia, etc.
Here's an article about where I live in Thailand -- http://magazine.theascender.org/issue-4 ... manhaemin/ -- here in Thailand I keep coming across people who shortcutted the accumulation phase but are making it work:
2) move somewhere cheap like Vietnam, Thailand, Colombia, etc.
Here's an article about where I live in Thailand -- http://magazine.theascender.org/issue-4 ... manhaemin/ -- here in Thailand I keep coming across people who shortcutted the accumulation phase but are making it work: