I just got married and although I don't plan on having kids for a while, I was wondering how parents are dealing with the expenses of children. How much extra are people spending for their first and subsequent children? I know some are deciding agaist children, but are some deciding on less of them?
Second children (or more) would cost less because of hand-me-downs and sharing, expecially if they are of the same gender, but there will always be an additional cost for food.
Its odd but in someways if we decide to have more than one, I hope to have either all boys or all girls. Which is usually the opposite of modern parents who want one of each (possibly because its a much more rounded "consumer unit"). One of the big expenses might be the need of a second bedroom, but if you have at least one of each you may need a THIRD!
ERE with kids
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George the original one
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AlexOliver
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mwilliams92
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@alexoliver
I'm not sure if I have a boy and a girl I would want them in the same room. The few people I did know who did this, the boys ended up sleeping on the couch in the living room as teens, which they felt was better. I also think kids need some privacy to invite friends if they want, and quite frankly my DH would think I was nuts if I proposed it. I'd rather split a bedroom into two smaller halves by adding a wall if need be, which wouldn't cost much, maybe a few hundred for the wall and second door.
I'm not sure if I have a boy and a girl I would want them in the same room. The few people I did know who did this, the boys ended up sleeping on the couch in the living room as teens, which they felt was better. I also think kids need some privacy to invite friends if they want, and quite frankly my DH would think I was nuts if I proposed it. I'd rather split a bedroom into two smaller halves by adding a wall if need be, which wouldn't cost much, maybe a few hundred for the wall and second door.
I have a 6 month old (with teeth coming out right now, sleep is not plentiful!).
About $1-$2k up front to furnish a room, then $50-$100/month is how I would put the range in the first year of living.
Some notes:
-the crib and stroller have high re-sell value. You could spend here and resell a year or two later and ultimately spend very little. This does not hold true if you buy a very cheap
-we bought a used stroller + pod + carseat for $300, I expect to be able to resell it for at least $200
-the crib + dresser was about $800 (we got ours as a gift)
-you can borrow clothing and toys (or you can buy them on consigment)
-diapers are about $50/month
Monthly costs, we really only spend now on ingredients for baby food + diapers. We have borrowed clothes from a set of twin boys so we have more clothes than what we know to do with.
Some secret costs:
-you lose the income of your others, 100% if she was a freelancer like mine
-life insurance becomes mandatory
-critical illness insurance is worth thinking about while your wife is off
Some ERE potential solutions:
-don't buy a crib, use a family bed
-or do something japanese style, everyone sleeps in the room on a soft floor
-use cloth diapers (up front cost of about $80 vs constant cost of $40/month while they are in diapers)
-make your own food (saves about 50%)
About $1-$2k up front to furnish a room, then $50-$100/month is how I would put the range in the first year of living.
Some notes:
-the crib and stroller have high re-sell value. You could spend here and resell a year or two later and ultimately spend very little. This does not hold true if you buy a very cheap
-we bought a used stroller + pod + carseat for $300, I expect to be able to resell it for at least $200
-the crib + dresser was about $800 (we got ours as a gift)
-you can borrow clothing and toys (or you can buy them on consigment)
-diapers are about $50/month
Monthly costs, we really only spend now on ingredients for baby food + diapers. We have borrowed clothes from a set of twin boys so we have more clothes than what we know to do with.
Some secret costs:
-you lose the income of your others, 100% if she was a freelancer like mine
-life insurance becomes mandatory
-critical illness insurance is worth thinking about while your wife is off
Some ERE potential solutions:
-don't buy a crib, use a family bed
-or do something japanese style, everyone sleeps in the room on a soft floor
-use cloth diapers (up front cost of about $80 vs constant cost of $40/month while they are in diapers)
-make your own food (saves about 50%)
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jacob
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In terms of secret costs, if you're FI, those become void. Your passive income will simply support your dependent instead of you.
This is a good case for achieving nominal FI before having kids. You can take a few years off. Then go back to work. There no ERE rule saying that the money has to be spent on retiring. It could also lend substantial material financial safety to a starting family. Sadly many people tend to bring a lot of debt into their families rather than a lot of savings.
This is a good case for achieving nominal FI before having kids. You can take a few years off. Then go back to work. There no ERE rule saying that the money has to be spent on retiring. It could also lend substantial material financial safety to a starting family. Sadly many people tend to bring a lot of debt into their families rather than a lot of savings.
Just don't get divorced. DH has a $700 / month child support bill so he'll never get to ERE. I'd guess actually having a child of your own would cost much less but the state determines how much you have to pay based on your income. Also, he's very rarely allowed to see his son despite numerous (expensive) sessions in court. Dads generally get a tough break from "the system". I know no one thinks it'll happen to them, but realistically it's 50% of marriages.
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mwilliams92
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hopefully both my DH and I will be FI before we have kids, which will mitigate insurance costs, possibly to nill (health is free in Italy yay!). If my family can't support a child on what I support an entire family, something is wrong LOL
I agree with Jacob, one of the reasons we are interested in FI is more family security, and freedom to do whatever we want including spending time together. Raising a family with a stay at home mom and a semi-retired dad (can't seem to get DH to truly be interested in retireing...) is better than all the stuff people tend to give their kids instead of time. Time is more valuable and kids know it too.
so if I have to use cloth diapers, buy everything used and mush my own baby food, so be it.
I hope I don't get divorced, I've only been married four months! I only know one Italian who is divorced, and she is gay. They are at around 2.7% compared to the states with 49.5% (just looked it up, not sure how accurate but it seems about right) Since I'm American and my DH is Italian I'll average it out to 26.1% likely to divorce for us.
I agree with Jacob, one of the reasons we are interested in FI is more family security, and freedom to do whatever we want including spending time together. Raising a family with a stay at home mom and a semi-retired dad (can't seem to get DH to truly be interested in retireing...) is better than all the stuff people tend to give their kids instead of time. Time is more valuable and kids know it too.
so if I have to use cloth diapers, buy everything used and mush my own baby food, so be it.
I hope I don't get divorced, I've only been married four months! I only know one Italian who is divorced, and she is gay. They are at around 2.7% compared to the states with 49.5% (just looked it up, not sure how accurate but it seems about right) Since I'm American and my DH is Italian I'll average it out to 26.1% likely to divorce for us.
My son is 15 and the expenses are starting to increase. Weekend outings with his friends cost about $20 a night. It seems I give him $20-$40 every weekend now. He will be migrating from a learners permit to a drivers license soon. Right now my insurance has not increased, but it will once he turns 16. Gas money is on the way too.
We don't spend much on my 4 year old daughter now that she is out of diapers. (Glad mom breastfed)
Strange thing, when my son was born and we were technically in poverty as 20 year old's, we would buy new toys, clothes, etc for my son. Now that we are in the top 15 percent of earners in America, we buy used items for my daughter. Striving for early retirement!! Funny thing is, by us buying used quality items for my daughter, her quality of life is better than my son's was and for way less money.
I really enjoy hearing some of these youngsters (18-22) who have grabbed a hold of the ERE concept and wish I could have when I was their age.
Goal: family of 4 ERE by 38.
We don't spend much on my 4 year old daughter now that she is out of diapers. (Glad mom breastfed)
Strange thing, when my son was born and we were technically in poverty as 20 year old's, we would buy new toys, clothes, etc for my son. Now that we are in the top 15 percent of earners in America, we buy used items for my daughter. Striving for early retirement!! Funny thing is, by us buying used quality items for my daughter, her quality of life is better than my son's was and for way less money.
I really enjoy hearing some of these youngsters (18-22) who have grabbed a hold of the ERE concept and wish I could have when I was their age.
Goal: family of 4 ERE by 38.
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RobBennett
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Having kids is a minus financially. Sometimes, though, it can also be a plus. If you're lucky, the plus effect can counter much of the minus effect. I think it is easy to lose sight of this because it is harder to show it in dollars-and-cents terms.
There was a fellow I knew in law school who made a big impression on me. He was a goof-off in his first year. Then he got a girl pregnant, married her, and became a hard-working student (while also working a virtually full-time job). Having these unexpected new responsibilities caused him to take stock and to become more serious about income generation. In the end, it seems possible to me that having the kid left him more financially secure than he would have been otherwise.
Kids can also add inspiration. I know that I work harder knowing that, if I fail financially, it is not just me who is going to suffer the effects of that failure. Sometimes I look at what they are accomplishing in learning Latin or how to pitch a baseball and I see the obstacles blocking my forward progress as small in comparison.
Finally, kids can be a great source of creative solutions to problems. They always look at the world differently than you do (both because they are growing up in a different environment than the one you grew up in and because they have a different personality type than you do). So they generate insights that would never occur to you (and they are more likely to share them with you than friends because they are family and there tend to be fewer limits on frankness among family members).
They do cost a lot of money, though. I am not saying different re that part of it.
Rob
There was a fellow I knew in law school who made a big impression on me. He was a goof-off in his first year. Then he got a girl pregnant, married her, and became a hard-working student (while also working a virtually full-time job). Having these unexpected new responsibilities caused him to take stock and to become more serious about income generation. In the end, it seems possible to me that having the kid left him more financially secure than he would have been otherwise.
Kids can also add inspiration. I know that I work harder knowing that, if I fail financially, it is not just me who is going to suffer the effects of that failure. Sometimes I look at what they are accomplishing in learning Latin or how to pitch a baseball and I see the obstacles blocking my forward progress as small in comparison.
Finally, kids can be a great source of creative solutions to problems. They always look at the world differently than you do (both because they are growing up in a different environment than the one you grew up in and because they have a different personality type than you do). So they generate insights that would never occur to you (and they are more likely to share them with you than friends because they are family and there tend to be fewer limits on frankness among family members).
They do cost a lot of money, though. I am not saying different re that part of it.
Rob
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AlexOliver
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"My son is 15 and the expenses are starting to increase. Weekend outings with his friends cost about $20 a night. It seems I give him $20-$40 every weekend now. "
Why don't you give him an allowance (not tied to chores) and make him budget it out? So give him $40-80 a month and tell him to do whatever he wants with it. I'm seventeen and this is what my dad does with me so I don't have to ask him for money.
Why don't you give him an allowance (not tied to chores) and make him budget it out? So give him $40-80 a month and tell him to do whatever he wants with it. I'm seventeen and this is what my dad does with me so I don't have to ask him for money.
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Robert Muir
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Don't forget saving for education! This is both a plus and minus.
I put his gov't baby bonus cheque into an RESP (404k in the US??) each month for $100/month. The Canadian gov't matches 20% of what I put in, up to $2500 (so $500 from the gov't).
I love having another tax-favourable way to save and I love free money for the gov't.
I hate the idea of tossing over a big wad of cash to a 17 year old who is very likely to use it poorly. I also secretely hate the cost of education, I'd much prefer he became a tradesman, say an electrician, paid his way through school on his own dime and then one day I was like "hey you know that crappy electrical company you were going to work for... here's the $40k I was going to spend on your schooling... how about I fund you starting your own electrical company, and you never know the dreaded feeling of working for an asshole, nobody, middle manager in your life."
I put his gov't baby bonus cheque into an RESP (404k in the US??) each month for $100/month. The Canadian gov't matches 20% of what I put in, up to $2500 (so $500 from the gov't).
I love having another tax-favourable way to save and I love free money for the gov't.
I hate the idea of tossing over a big wad of cash to a 17 year old who is very likely to use it poorly. I also secretely hate the cost of education, I'd much prefer he became a tradesman, say an electrician, paid his way through school on his own dime and then one day I was like "hey you know that crappy electrical company you were going to work for... here's the $40k I was going to spend on your schooling... how about I fund you starting your own electrical company, and you never know the dreaded feeling of working for an asshole, nobody, middle manager in your life."
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mwilliams92
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aussierogue
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found this great website run bu ozzie govt set up to teach kids to be financially literate. The good news is anyone anywhere can access it and much of it is free
http://teaching.moneysmart.gov.au/
http://teaching.moneysmart.gov.au/
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aussierogue
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Kids saved us money.
The money my wife and I used to waste on entertaining ourselves is now replaced with our favorite source of entertainment: our kids (three and counting).
Before Kids: Get on airplane and see new country.
After Kids: Get on bicycle and picnic in the forest.
Before Kids: Get in car and eat out.
After: Get the kids to cook (or at least chop). Not having a TV helps here.
Before Kids: Blow cash on new kite board.
After Kids: Buy kite.
Before Kids: Blow cash on more music.
After Kids: Sing together (sounds corny, but it's fun).
Before Kids: Find people you like.
After Kids: Be with people like you.
Read the Idle Parent by Tom Hodgkinson. Great book.
The other piece of advice: homeschool (The Well-Trained Mind is a good book on the subject). We put our kids in school after the third one was born, but may switch back when she gets older.
The upshot: Don't be a DINK (dual income, no kids).
The money my wife and I used to waste on entertaining ourselves is now replaced with our favorite source of entertainment: our kids (three and counting).
Before Kids: Get on airplane and see new country.
After Kids: Get on bicycle and picnic in the forest.
Before Kids: Get in car and eat out.
After: Get the kids to cook (or at least chop). Not having a TV helps here.
Before Kids: Blow cash on new kite board.
After Kids: Buy kite.
Before Kids: Blow cash on more music.
After Kids: Sing together (sounds corny, but it's fun).
Before Kids: Find people you like.
After Kids: Be with people like you.
Read the Idle Parent by Tom Hodgkinson. Great book.
The other piece of advice: homeschool (The Well-Trained Mind is a good book on the subject). We put our kids in school after the third one was born, but may switch back when she gets older.
The upshot: Don't be a DINK (dual income, no kids).
Mine is a slightly different perspective since both of my kids have learning disabilities and my son also has pretty intense ADHD and Tourette Syndrome (with coprolalia). I have spent a lot of money to make things easier for them when it comes to their education, therapies, and socializing.
My son who is almost 14 particularly wants to be seen as "normal" as possible and this makes it very difficult to expect him to live as frugal a lifestyle as I would be happy with.
Fortunately, most kids do not cost as much as mine. Just be aware that it could get very expensive if you have a child with some sort of special needs.
My son who is almost 14 particularly wants to be seen as "normal" as possible and this makes it very difficult to expect him to live as frugal a lifestyle as I would be happy with.
Fortunately, most kids do not cost as much as mine. Just be aware that it could get very expensive if you have a child with some sort of special needs.