What drives the desire to travel?

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Ego
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:My main hypothesis for the difference in perception is simply that I like to classify experiences into abstractions. With enough sample points, I get it. I don't need to see more to understand more. In other words, repeating the same kind of travel to ten different countries doesn't bring me more insight or understanding than going to the first few of them.
Your example works in a static environment where 2 + 2 always equals 4.

The world is not a static environment. It changes. You are not static. You change and grow. If I find no new insights in the tenth country, could it be that I am making an effort to not find insights?

On the other hand, The Tao Te Ching & George Harrison have an opinion:

Without going out of my door,
I can know all things of earth
Without looking out of my window
I could know the ways of heaven
The farther one travels, the less one knows

The less one really knows
Without going out of your door
You can know all things on earth
Without looking out of your window
You could know the ways of heaven
The farther one travels, the less one knows

The less one really knows
Arrive without traveling, see all without looking
Do all without doing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oSuzEqHOcE

riparian
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by riparian »

If you have to put other people's experiences into a box that most don't fit in to get your judgement to work... well, that might be more about you than them.

J_
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by J_ »

In my twenties I worked and lived (earned) in the Netherlands 7,5 and in Germany 2,5 years.
In my thirties and forties I returned to the Netherlands for working and studying, and made extensive slow trips (six weeks each) to Canada and Australia (several times) with my family.
In my fifties I emigrated to the United Kingdom for 5 years, and earned with real estate (refurbishing houses), paid taxes and integrated with local people, learned the building regulations. Thereafter I returned to the Netherlands in a province and town I had never lived before.
In my early sixties I started to live also in Austria for a substantial part of the years, pay taxes there and learn to cope with the local laws and customs.

The drive for them is still unchanged: to live a little bit "adventurous" But I agree it is all European culture, although in three languages, very different tax systems and local customs. We have now friends in all these countries.
Further I have visited 16 other countries: On every visit I get inspiration because I take ample time by renting an apartment in each city and have extensive views in only a small number of museums, buildings (for architecture) and the history and development of that city or landscape.
The drive for these travels is to amaze myself about human abilities, and use these for my own knowledge/and skills. I prefer to use public means of transport.

But most of my travels are day/week trips around the places I live, by my small motorboat, walking, cycling and cross country skiing. They are the most important to me in day to day living.

susswein
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by susswein »

For me, one of the highlights is meeting fellow travelers. Most of my trips are unplanned, low budget, and to out-of-the-way places. I find that the other travelers I meet in these places and circumstances are generally incredibly interesting people that I enjoy hanging out with, and I almost never meet people like this back home.

BecaS
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by BecaS »

I'm going to go all Old School on y'all.

For years, travel = vacation for us. It was a break from work, a break from home. For people who have done the DIY as much as we could for years, a break from home was a break from all the things that we typically did. Yes, we often stayed in condos with kitchens (before the travel trailer) so we could and we did cook some of our food- but because we weren't working with our fully equipped kitchen at home, we didn't cook all of our meals, and we didn't cook the full, involved meals we cooked at home.

While on vacation, in another place, we weren't staring at the things that needed doing: future projects, current projects, always maintenance. It was a week or so of freedom from The Perpetual List of Chores. For about a week or so, we could sit on a beach or beside a pool or in the mountains and just, chill, mentally and physically.

There are a handful of places on both coasts that we enjoy, but due to work constraints, there was no way to actually *move* there. Returning to these places once a year, once every couple of years, etc. was a way to live there for a week, enjoy the ambiance but not move our entire operation.

There are places in the Pacific NW that we dearly love, but they are in the shadow of Mt. Rainier, or Mt. St Helens, at the foothills of the Cascades, or on the other side of the coastal range. I left a piece of my soul out there- but as much as I love it, I'm not sure I'd invest in property there at this point in my life. I am sure I'd think differently of it had I built a life there- I'd take the geological risk as part of my daily cost of "doing business" i.e. living my life. At this age, approaching full on retirement for both of us, I'm not sure I want to bet the farm against earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanos.

I did some contract work in the Pacific NW and I was just outside of Seattle during an earthquake whose epicenter was in Tacoma. It was notable. I've since wondered how building foundations stand up to those pretty regular tremors... is it a long term risk to structural/foundation stability? But that's another thread...

Similarly, we are far enough inland here that we don't often have to worry about direct hits from hurricanes, storm surges and spin off tornados. We can visit the coast as often as we'd like without having to absorb the costs of increased insurance premiums and additional weather risk related insurance policies.

Traveling allows us to "rent" places that we love but that we'd not necessarily want to own.

J_
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by J_ »

Jacobs ability to go abstract is enormous and has brought us the compact book about ERE. As Riparian writes this ability says also a lot about himself as far as came clear in (t)his travel thread. And that helps me in understanding how he sees traveling and the reactions of others gives me further insights about the many different views there are possible.

For me there remains: traveling as stepping out of your rut, may be it only in imagination, may be it in close distance to where you live, may be it out of your cultural home sphere, may be different from your normal familial circumstances (thank you Jennypenny) is beneficial for you in every age. And perhaps that's the answer to what drives you to travel!

anomie
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by anomie »

@BecaS
Thanks for writing this. My position is closer to the big J's™ , while my dw's likes to travel. We spend part of our vacation time on visiting family atm, and contend on how to spend the remainder. She travels as part of her work. I just burn my vaca days at home singularly, reading this forum among other diversions.

Understanding someone else's need to travel will help me, I think. At this point, I see a 3-4 getaway from home, as just a 20% hit on the monthly expense...

We are both following this thread closely....

Felix
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Felix »

I don't think it's the travel as such that does the trick, but the second step of socializing with the locals. What is usually needed is something to jolt you out of your stupor. Also, it is easier to classify new experiences as same-old same-old than to look at them with a fresh eye. It's the secret to being bored and needing new experiences because you cannot see the ones you have as different enough from the ones you have already had. We are all very good at that, the more brainy we are, the better we are at it. But still, you can't step into the same river twice. Travel has the benefit of putting you into situations where your boredom-filters don't work.
Last edited by Felix on Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JamesR
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by JamesR »

Travel is a great way to break out of routines and habits, expose yourself to people that think differently and have different values to you. Because it takes you out of your normal situation, it's an excellent break (psychotic or otherwise), it's what recreation is (y'know, recreate yourself).

For younger people, it's probably somewhat more party-focused, alcohol and attractive people from different countries.. for older people, it's more about waking up and seeing something totally different out the window first thing in the morning, experiencing different foods, atmosphere, and sights.

Typical travel is time-limited, but option-rich, so it tends to be cram-packed with activity to get more value out of the cost of travel. Long term living in a totally unique (to you) place for several months or more still has the sense of being on a break, even if you're working. For example I stayed in thailand for 17 months and I still felt like the whole experience was somewhat of a vacation, albeit a working vacation.

jacob
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by jacob »

@Toska - I think when it comes down to it, I'd say I have traveled. I've changed my country twice in order to do something. I've gone to places to do things I couldn't do locally. Much as I complain about not "getting it", I do have quite a bit of international experience.

But my travel emphasis is on doing. My experiences with "visiting the locals", "seeing that people 'everywhere' lives insie of cubes with four walls and a ceiling", and "eating the food" has shown me that the intrasocioeconomic differences are larger than any international differences. But I've only really visited the "middle class" in many different countries, so that's to be expected.

KevinW
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by KevinW »

As has been mentioned, I think one common motivation is bald consumerism or as a status symbol; and another is as a socially-acceptable loophole to temporarily get a waiver from the Protestant work ethic. Those give rise to vacations that involve traveling to a faraway place and then patronising the same American chain restaurants and hotels as exist at home.

Another motivation, and one that I can condone, is seeing another way of life first hand as a means to inspire beneficial changes in ones own life. I think the value of this depends somewhat on where one lies on the Sensing-iNtuition MBTI spectrum. Strong intuitives can learn about alternatives and visualize their consequences abstractly without actually seeing concrete examples. Srong Sensers tend to need to see and experience things in order to grok them.

For example I have read blog posts about how great the cycling infrastructure is in the Netherlands and Scandinavia, and how much more comfortable it is to live a cycle-based lifestyle there. But then when I had a chance to visit Copenhagen and bike there, I really grokked that on a deeper level, and that has inspired me to eventually move to a proactively bike-friendly neighborhood. I'm an INTJ, but I hadn't fully made the connection about how big a deal that is. So I can see how a Sensing type would have a hard time believing claims like "vegetarian food can taste good" or "a very small home can be comfortable if it's designed well" until they see it with their own two eyes, and travel can make that happen.

BecaS
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by BecaS »

@Anomie, you are welcomed. There are all sorts of motivations and benefits to a change of scenery. Catching a break and one's breath is as valid as any other reason. :)

@KevinW
"As has been mentioned, I think one common motivation is bald consumerism or as a status symbol; and another is as a socially-acceptable loophole to temporarily get a waiver from the Protestant work ethic. Those give rise to vacations that involve traveling to a faraway place and then patronising the same American chain restaurants and hotels as exist at home."

Wow.

The hilarious thing is that I am "on vacation" right this red hot second. I'd paint you a verbal portrait but I'm afraid it would slide off of your preconceptions like so much oil on water :)

KevinW
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by KevinW »

What does that mean?

BecaS
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by BecaS »

@KevinW,

Taking oneself to another location as a facilitating mechanism for taking a break can be described in many other ways than as a socially acceptable loophole to escape the Protestant work ethic, or as a consumer driven status symbol, or as a vehicle for replicating one's bourgeois lifestyle in another location.

Of all the ways you've paraphrased my description of vacation travel, possibly the Protestant work ethic loophole comes closest to reality, although I find that I sometimes take my Protestant work ethic with me. Today, for instance, and yesterday as well, were spent in part harvesting and planting perennial slips to augment the garden border on this property. I suppose that qualifies for "Protestant work ethic" in that I spent some hours for two consecutive vacation days thus occupied. Since I was baptized and confirmed as a Roman Catholic I suppose that I should try to work some Catholic guilt in here somewhere as well; truth be told, the view is exquisite, the weather divine, and I enjoyed the hell out of every single minute. No guilt here and it hardly seemed like work. I guess I fail at both Protestant work ethic and Catholic guilt. ;)

Right now we are eating a bit of a late dinner: steaks (purchased at Costco at home, frozen in home made marinade) that were grilled to perfection by my wonderful husband on a Lodge hibachi that I scored on Freecycle a few years ago, red skinned potatoes and tomatoes with green beans from our little garden, cooked in very little time with very little energy expenditure in the pressure cooker.

The windows are opened and the breeze is lovely. No air conditioning this week! and that's wonderful.

Tonight we'll lounge in front of the t.v. which will receive free OTA signals from the rooftop antenna that my husband installed himself. My husband will catch up with email and perhaps tend to some tasks he can access via computer. I will continue knitting a pair of warm wool socks for this winter. I may also do some research re: purchasing some sock wool from a small local business that harvests their own alpaca wool and has it spun up into yarn. They've offered to have some wool spun into yarn with a nylon component so that I can use it as sock yarn. I need to ask them a few questions about that so I may shoot them an email. We support local businesses whenever we can.

I will also spend some time researching some approved recipes for canning fruit pie filling and some other recipes as well, and pricing out some local produce for the same. I ordered and received a batch of Clear Gel for canning right before we left town. It's difficult to find Clear Gel on store shelves, but it's the only thickening agent that's approved for home canning. I'm anxious to give it a try. I hope I'm not too late to can up some peach pie filling- and I know I'm not too late for apple pie filling.

Tomorrow may be kayaking- I use my husband's first kayak, which suits me well, and my husband has the kayak of his dreams, purchased in like new condition at a substantial discount on Craigslist.

And we'll take our dog swimming. :) :) <:3~

We'll also make a batch of goodies to take to a neighbor who is recovering from an accident, and we'll have dinner with friends at their house.

The rest of the week involves- MORE OF THE SAME :) :) <:3~ plus visiting some nearby, small towns and patronizing those businesses where necessary or desired.

Not a chain hotel or restaurant in the mix... :) :)

The List of Ever Present Chores awaits back in town- and it can continue to wait until we get back. :) :) When we do return, I will see it with different eyes. I will have all sorts of ideas and perhaps some new resources for wool sock yarn, for canning recipes, etc. :)

Sometimes "blank space" is anything but... but without that down time, it's difficult for me to fully conceive of new ideas and directions, or to plan for same.

KevinW
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by KevinW »

If I understand correctly, you are arguing that there are motivations for travel beyond the three I listed. But actually I never said those were the only three, so that point doesn't need to be made. I qualified the two first motivations as "common," which leaves room for other motivations to exist. It's a small word but it's an important one in that sentence.

My reference to the Protestant work ethic was a callback to prior discussions of that topic here, e.g.:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/a-duty-to-work.html
viewtopic.php?t=3629

Also note that there is a distinction between vacation and travel. I am all for vacations, including but not limited to "staycations" where one relaxes and loafs about without traveling.

It sounds like you guys are having a good time, and that's a good thing. But it also sounds like you could do all that stuff at home, and skip the expense and hassle of going somewhere else. What is the value added by doing that kind of stuff away from home?

BeyondtheWrap
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by BeyondtheWrap »

BecaS, your description of "vacation travel" sounds like a description of retirement.

Maybe that's the answer? Some people want to travel. We want to retire. Many people similarly don't understand why we would want to retire.

MinervaB
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by MinervaB »

For me, it's when you are stuck and don't know how to live on or what you want to do with your life and apparently relocation appears to be the best decision))Escapism as it is.

Tyler9000
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Tyler9000 »

I see travel as a form of exercise. It helps break your daily routines, which is good for the mind. It's also a good source of perspective, like seeing how the average Chinese laborer lives vs the American consumer. It can be awe-inspiring, like seeing the milky way from the non-populated side of a Hawaiian island. And just plain fun, like driving up the California coast with a loved one and camping along the way.

Occasional travel helps remind me that there's more to the world than what I see every day. I find that to be a very healthy thing. In fact, I attribute my current ERE quest partially to my travel and past cross-country moves. If I had never peeked outside the social box I grew up in, I may never have discovered other ways of living than what everyone else around me was doing. Reading about stuff on the internet just isn't the same as seeing it first-hand.

That said, some of the most insular people I've met are "vacation collectors". I had a few friends in the Bay Area who would fly to Hong Kong or London, but not be caught dead on a road trip through a small town. I think the key is to seek out new experiences that challenge you (which costs very little) and not simply throw money at luxury versions of what you already know.

SilverElephant
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by SilverElephant »

A very good friend of mine traveled through southeast asia (plus a stop in Australia and a quick stop in L.A.) for seven months and as far as I can tell he's still got the same views. Sure, he now knows first-hand how badly off people are there, he traveled by bike and ate local food, but then he was a guy with simple tastes back here too. Plus, even though he's a student with limited means, he still had the comforting knowledge of his parents' financial backing should anything bad happen.

Another friend of mine took a three-weeks tourist trip to India. When she came back, the whole "Oh God, we're soooo well off here, I'll enjoy things much more now that I've seen starving and dying people" lasted all of a week.

I extract the following from these observations:

- The people who backpack through foreign countries are either the ones who know they're going back to a much, much nicer lifestyle or the ones who have the "simple" mindset for it in the first place
- "Experiencing" somewhat different cultures for short periods of time is no match for the force of the day-to-day rut.

Unless you actively try and change your mindset, one day at a time (make it a habit), observing a foreign culture out of a secure bubble one a two-months trip isn't going to change anything. Like Jacob said, only once you've had to deal with all the stuff a country's or culture's different perspective on life can throw at you, might change come about.

JasonR
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by JasonR »

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Last edited by JasonR on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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