As has been mentioned, I think one common motivation is bald consumerism or as a status symbol; and another is as a socially-acceptable loophole to temporarily get a waiver from the Protestant work ethic. Those give rise to vacations that involve traveling to a faraway place and then patronising the same American chain restaurants and hotels as exist at home.
Another motivation, and one that I can condone, is seeing another way of life first hand as a means to inspire beneficial changes in ones own life. I think the value of this depends somewhat on where one lies on the Sensing-iNtuition MBTI spectrum. Strong intuitives can learn about alternatives and visualize their consequences abstractly without actually seeing concrete examples. Srong Sensers tend to need to see and experience things in order to grok them.
For example I have read blog posts about how great the cycling infrastructure is in the Netherlands and Scandinavia, and how much more comfortable it is to live a cycle-based lifestyle there. But then when I had a chance to visit Copenhagen and bike there, I really grokked that on a deeper level, and that has inspired me to eventually move to a proactively bike-friendly neighborhood. I'm an INTJ, but I hadn't fully made the connection about how big a deal that is. So I can see how a Sensing type would have a hard time believing claims like "vegetarian food can taste good" or "a very small home can be comfortable if it's designed well" until they see it with their own two eyes, and travel can make that happen.
What drives the desire to travel?
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
@Anomie, you are welcomed. There are all sorts of motivations and benefits to a change of scenery. Catching a break and one's breath is as valid as any other reason. 
@KevinW
"As has been mentioned, I think one common motivation is bald consumerism or as a status symbol; and another is as a socially-acceptable loophole to temporarily get a waiver from the Protestant work ethic. Those give rise to vacations that involve traveling to a faraway place and then patronising the same American chain restaurants and hotels as exist at home."
Wow.
The hilarious thing is that I am "on vacation" right this red hot second. I'd paint you a verbal portrait but I'm afraid it would slide off of your preconceptions like so much oil on water
@KevinW
"As has been mentioned, I think one common motivation is bald consumerism or as a status symbol; and another is as a socially-acceptable loophole to temporarily get a waiver from the Protestant work ethic. Those give rise to vacations that involve traveling to a faraway place and then patronising the same American chain restaurants and hotels as exist at home."
Wow.
The hilarious thing is that I am "on vacation" right this red hot second. I'd paint you a verbal portrait but I'm afraid it would slide off of your preconceptions like so much oil on water
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
What does that mean?
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
@KevinW,
Taking oneself to another location as a facilitating mechanism for taking a break can be described in many other ways than as a socially acceptable loophole to escape the Protestant work ethic, or as a consumer driven status symbol, or as a vehicle for replicating one's bourgeois lifestyle in another location.
Of all the ways you've paraphrased my description of vacation travel, possibly the Protestant work ethic loophole comes closest to reality, although I find that I sometimes take my Protestant work ethic with me. Today, for instance, and yesterday as well, were spent in part harvesting and planting perennial slips to augment the garden border on this property. I suppose that qualifies for "Protestant work ethic" in that I spent some hours for two consecutive vacation days thus occupied. Since I was baptized and confirmed as a Roman Catholic I suppose that I should try to work some Catholic guilt in here somewhere as well; truth be told, the view is exquisite, the weather divine, and I enjoyed the hell out of every single minute. No guilt here and it hardly seemed like work. I guess I fail at both Protestant work ethic and Catholic guilt.
Right now we are eating a bit of a late dinner: steaks (purchased at Costco at home, frozen in home made marinade) that were grilled to perfection by my wonderful husband on a Lodge hibachi that I scored on Freecycle a few years ago, red skinned potatoes and tomatoes with green beans from our little garden, cooked in very little time with very little energy expenditure in the pressure cooker.
The windows are opened and the breeze is lovely. No air conditioning this week! and that's wonderful.
Tonight we'll lounge in front of the t.v. which will receive free OTA signals from the rooftop antenna that my husband installed himself. My husband will catch up with email and perhaps tend to some tasks he can access via computer. I will continue knitting a pair of warm wool socks for this winter. I may also do some research re: purchasing some sock wool from a small local business that harvests their own alpaca wool and has it spun up into yarn. They've offered to have some wool spun into yarn with a nylon component so that I can use it as sock yarn. I need to ask them a few questions about that so I may shoot them an email. We support local businesses whenever we can.
I will also spend some time researching some approved recipes for canning fruit pie filling and some other recipes as well, and pricing out some local produce for the same. I ordered and received a batch of Clear Gel for canning right before we left town. It's difficult to find Clear Gel on store shelves, but it's the only thickening agent that's approved for home canning. I'm anxious to give it a try. I hope I'm not too late to can up some peach pie filling- and I know I'm not too late for apple pie filling.
Tomorrow may be kayaking- I use my husband's first kayak, which suits me well, and my husband has the kayak of his dreams, purchased in like new condition at a substantial discount on Craigslist.
And we'll take our dog swimming. <:3~
We'll also make a batch of goodies to take to a neighbor who is recovering from an accident, and we'll have dinner with friends at their house.
The rest of the week involves- MORE OF THE SAME <:3~ plus visiting some nearby, small towns and patronizing those businesses where necessary or desired.
Not a chain hotel or restaurant in the mix...
The List of Ever Present Chores awaits back in town- and it can continue to wait until we get back. When we do return, I will see it with different eyes. I will have all sorts of ideas and perhaps some new resources for wool sock yarn, for canning recipes, etc.
Sometimes "blank space" is anything but... but without that down time, it's difficult for me to fully conceive of new ideas and directions, or to plan for same.
Taking oneself to another location as a facilitating mechanism for taking a break can be described in many other ways than as a socially acceptable loophole to escape the Protestant work ethic, or as a consumer driven status symbol, or as a vehicle for replicating one's bourgeois lifestyle in another location.
Of all the ways you've paraphrased my description of vacation travel, possibly the Protestant work ethic loophole comes closest to reality, although I find that I sometimes take my Protestant work ethic with me. Today, for instance, and yesterday as well, were spent in part harvesting and planting perennial slips to augment the garden border on this property. I suppose that qualifies for "Protestant work ethic" in that I spent some hours for two consecutive vacation days thus occupied. Since I was baptized and confirmed as a Roman Catholic I suppose that I should try to work some Catholic guilt in here somewhere as well; truth be told, the view is exquisite, the weather divine, and I enjoyed the hell out of every single minute. No guilt here and it hardly seemed like work. I guess I fail at both Protestant work ethic and Catholic guilt.
Right now we are eating a bit of a late dinner: steaks (purchased at Costco at home, frozen in home made marinade) that were grilled to perfection by my wonderful husband on a Lodge hibachi that I scored on Freecycle a few years ago, red skinned potatoes and tomatoes with green beans from our little garden, cooked in very little time with very little energy expenditure in the pressure cooker.
The windows are opened and the breeze is lovely. No air conditioning this week! and that's wonderful.
Tonight we'll lounge in front of the t.v. which will receive free OTA signals from the rooftop antenna that my husband installed himself. My husband will catch up with email and perhaps tend to some tasks he can access via computer. I will continue knitting a pair of warm wool socks for this winter. I may also do some research re: purchasing some sock wool from a small local business that harvests their own alpaca wool and has it spun up into yarn. They've offered to have some wool spun into yarn with a nylon component so that I can use it as sock yarn. I need to ask them a few questions about that so I may shoot them an email. We support local businesses whenever we can.
I will also spend some time researching some approved recipes for canning fruit pie filling and some other recipes as well, and pricing out some local produce for the same. I ordered and received a batch of Clear Gel for canning right before we left town. It's difficult to find Clear Gel on store shelves, but it's the only thickening agent that's approved for home canning. I'm anxious to give it a try. I hope I'm not too late to can up some peach pie filling- and I know I'm not too late for apple pie filling.
Tomorrow may be kayaking- I use my husband's first kayak, which suits me well, and my husband has the kayak of his dreams, purchased in like new condition at a substantial discount on Craigslist.
And we'll take our dog swimming.
<:3~We'll also make a batch of goodies to take to a neighbor who is recovering from an accident, and we'll have dinner with friends at their house.
The rest of the week involves- MORE OF THE SAME
<:3~ plus visiting some nearby, small towns and patronizing those businesses where necessary or desired.Not a chain hotel or restaurant in the mix...
The List of Ever Present Chores awaits back in town- and it can continue to wait until we get back.
When we do return, I will see it with different eyes. I will have all sorts of ideas and perhaps some new resources for wool sock yarn, for canning recipes, etc. Sometimes "blank space" is anything but... but without that down time, it's difficult for me to fully conceive of new ideas and directions, or to plan for same.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
If I understand correctly, you are arguing that there are motivations for travel beyond the three I listed. But actually I never said those were the only three, so that point doesn't need to be made. I qualified the two first motivations as "common," which leaves room for other motivations to exist. It's a small word but it's an important one in that sentence.
My reference to the Protestant work ethic was a callback to prior discussions of that topic here, e.g.:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/a-duty-to-work.html
viewtopic.php?t=3629
Also note that there is a distinction between vacation and travel. I am all for vacations, including but not limited to "staycations" where one relaxes and loafs about without traveling.
It sounds like you guys are having a good time, and that's a good thing. But it also sounds like you could do all that stuff at home, and skip the expense and hassle of going somewhere else. What is the value added by doing that kind of stuff away from home?
My reference to the Protestant work ethic was a callback to prior discussions of that topic here, e.g.:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/a-duty-to-work.html
viewtopic.php?t=3629
Also note that there is a distinction between vacation and travel. I am all for vacations, including but not limited to "staycations" where one relaxes and loafs about without traveling.
It sounds like you guys are having a good time, and that's a good thing. But it also sounds like you could do all that stuff at home, and skip the expense and hassle of going somewhere else. What is the value added by doing that kind of stuff away from home?
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BeyondtheWrap
- Posts: 598
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- Location: NYC
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
BecaS, your description of "vacation travel" sounds like a description of retirement.
Maybe that's the answer? Some people want to travel. We want to retire. Many people similarly don't understand why we would want to retire.
Maybe that's the answer? Some people want to travel. We want to retire. Many people similarly don't understand why we would want to retire.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
For me, it's when you are stuck and don't know how to live on or what you want to do with your life and apparently relocation appears to be the best decision))Escapism as it is.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
I see travel as a form of exercise. It helps break your daily routines, which is good for the mind. It's also a good source of perspective, like seeing how the average Chinese laborer lives vs the American consumer. It can be awe-inspiring, like seeing the milky way from the non-populated side of a Hawaiian island. And just plain fun, like driving up the California coast with a loved one and camping along the way.
Occasional travel helps remind me that there's more to the world than what I see every day. I find that to be a very healthy thing. In fact, I attribute my current ERE quest partially to my travel and past cross-country moves. If I had never peeked outside the social box I grew up in, I may never have discovered other ways of living than what everyone else around me was doing. Reading about stuff on the internet just isn't the same as seeing it first-hand.
That said, some of the most insular people I've met are "vacation collectors". I had a few friends in the Bay Area who would fly to Hong Kong or London, but not be caught dead on a road trip through a small town. I think the key is to seek out new experiences that challenge you (which costs very little) and not simply throw money at luxury versions of what you already know.
Occasional travel helps remind me that there's more to the world than what I see every day. I find that to be a very healthy thing. In fact, I attribute my current ERE quest partially to my travel and past cross-country moves. If I had never peeked outside the social box I grew up in, I may never have discovered other ways of living than what everyone else around me was doing. Reading about stuff on the internet just isn't the same as seeing it first-hand.
That said, some of the most insular people I've met are "vacation collectors". I had a few friends in the Bay Area who would fly to Hong Kong or London, but not be caught dead on a road trip through a small town. I think the key is to seek out new experiences that challenge you (which costs very little) and not simply throw money at luxury versions of what you already know.
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SilverElephant
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:40 pm
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
A very good friend of mine traveled through southeast asia (plus a stop in Australia and a quick stop in L.A.) for seven months and as far as I can tell he's still got the same views. Sure, he now knows first-hand how badly off people are there, he traveled by bike and ate local food, but then he was a guy with simple tastes back here too. Plus, even though he's a student with limited means, he still had the comforting knowledge of his parents' financial backing should anything bad happen.
Another friend of mine took a three-weeks tourist trip to India. When she came back, the whole "Oh God, we're soooo well off here, I'll enjoy things much more now that I've seen starving and dying people" lasted all of a week.
I extract the following from these observations:
- The people who backpack through foreign countries are either the ones who know they're going back to a much, much nicer lifestyle or the ones who have the "simple" mindset for it in the first place
- "Experiencing" somewhat different cultures for short periods of time is no match for the force of the day-to-day rut.
Unless you actively try and change your mindset, one day at a time (make it a habit), observing a foreign culture out of a secure bubble one a two-months trip isn't going to change anything. Like Jacob said, only once you've had to deal with all the stuff a country's or culture's different perspective on life can throw at you, might change come about.
Another friend of mine took a three-weeks tourist trip to India. When she came back, the whole "Oh God, we're soooo well off here, I'll enjoy things much more now that I've seen starving and dying people" lasted all of a week.
I extract the following from these observations:
- The people who backpack through foreign countries are either the ones who know they're going back to a much, much nicer lifestyle or the ones who have the "simple" mindset for it in the first place
- "Experiencing" somewhat different cultures for short periods of time is no match for the force of the day-to-day rut.
Unless you actively try and change your mindset, one day at a time (make it a habit), observing a foreign culture out of a secure bubble one a two-months trip isn't going to change anything. Like Jacob said, only once you've had to deal with all the stuff a country's or culture's different perspective on life can throw at you, might change come about.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
o
Last edited by JasonR on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
Everyone is different. Like any activity, one gets out of travel what they seek.
Personally, I have a tougher time understanding those who fear or avoid travel. A friend of mine has never lived more than 5 miles from where he grew up and went to school, and rarely left the city. I'd feel claustrophobic in that type of setup, but he's perfectly happy. To each his own.
Personally, I have a tougher time understanding those who fear or avoid travel. A friend of mine has never lived more than 5 miles from where he grew up and went to school, and rarely left the city. I'd feel claustrophobic in that type of setup, but he's perfectly happy. To each his own.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
More evidence that we are controlled by our gut bacteria.... a good reason to get exposed to a variety of bacteria through travel.jennypenny wrote:I'm afraid to click on the link to that videoEgo wrote:And I'll reiterate.... microbes!!!!! Fecal transplants are on the horizon. Until then, travel is the only way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMnRC22oOs
http://universityofcalifornia.edu/news/ ... -our-minds
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
Travel is just another way to get out of your comfort zone.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
...without being too uncomfortable.
I've been to a lot of 2nd world countries, and one or two third world. Let's be honest, it takes a significant amount of effort to be 'uncomfortable' as a tourist.
I mean using a drop toilet while you've got food poisoning is uncomfortable, but is it intrinsically meaningful or productive? I think (like most normal life moments) the situations travelers deal with are routine, everyday and simple.
That's been my experience, and I enjoyed it immensely. I'm 'traveling' now, and not really digging it - I'm sick of the same 15 questions we ask people while traveling, the 'sights' to see, the inability to connect with locals due to language differences, and the lack of any meaningful alone time.
I know places I'll go again where I can connect with people I well and truly couldn't meet in Australia (because these specific people don't live there), and I enjoy eating new food, but exploring new places is seeming more and more contrite.
I've been to a lot of 2nd world countries, and one or two third world. Let's be honest, it takes a significant amount of effort to be 'uncomfortable' as a tourist.
I mean using a drop toilet while you've got food poisoning is uncomfortable, but is it intrinsically meaningful or productive? I think (like most normal life moments) the situations travelers deal with are routine, everyday and simple.
That's been my experience, and I enjoyed it immensely. I'm 'traveling' now, and not really digging it - I'm sick of the same 15 questions we ask people while traveling, the 'sights' to see, the inability to connect with locals due to language differences, and the lack of any meaningful alone time.
I know places I'll go again where I can connect with people I well and truly couldn't meet in Australia (because these specific people don't live there), and I enjoy eating new food, but exploring new places is seeming more and more contrite.
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Hankaroundtheworld
- Posts: 470
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?
jacob wrote:WRT to experiences ...
When people travel to other countries they mostly get the experience of visiting the country, not in living there.
They don't get to make a living there.
They don't pay taxes.
They don't learn to battle the bureaucracy.
They don't stay long enough to get the humour or cultural references.
They don't get to go to the hospital.
They don't get to find a mechanic.
They don't get to build a cob house.
Visiting and living are very different experiences. This is perhaps the crux of my "complaint". By visiting a lot, isn't all you're getting a lot of experience in "visiting"? I mean, I'm quite experienced in visiting. I've visited 14 countries and lived (in the above sense) in 3 of them. For me, living went much deeper on the experience level than visiting ... but doing something out-of-culture went deeper still despite not change my location geographically.
I agree with this, before I worked/lived outside my home-country, but sometimes made backpacker trips, you never really feel how it is like to live in a different culture. Then after a few years of work, and we saw no value in working for a bigger car/home, my wife and I had this urge to see the world and really "live" it, and there was no turning back. When you start living somewhere else, and you need to re-build your life all the time (social network, you name it...) you change a lot, and having done this now 8 times around the world, I cannot imagine anymore how I felt when I was living in my home-country.
Having said this, we have reached a new chapter after 15 years of living around the world, we are now looking for a home-base and only do occasional travel (but then slow-travel).
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jacob
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Re: What drives the desire to travel?
I've received A LOT of blowback from my travel posts. However, one thing I have noticed is that most (but not all) tend to come around to my perspective but only after they get a bunch of countries under the belt. I imagine it's like climbing a mountain(*). It looks much different once you've been to the top and descended whereas those who're still climbing it thinks it's the greatest thing. I've realized that I'm mainly complaining from a "been there, done that, wasn't that impressed"-perspective and that I mainly get blowback from the "either never done it or only done it for a couple of years and it's still/so exciting"-perspective.
(*) This would be a metaphor of travel experience. Not going to a single country.
(*) This would be a metaphor of travel experience. Not going to a single country.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
Travel has ceased to be a hobby and has become a social norm. Look at OkCupid, travel is on everyone's list to describe themselves; things you can't do without, your accomplishments, etc. And like a social norm, if you deviate from it, the group decides it is its mission to correct your error through peer pressure and judgement.
Personal experience has taught me nothing says professional Nazi sympathizing puppy kicker like disliking travel.
I don't really care for travel as a hobby or social norm; I consider its present value in society as highly overrated. Oh, I've technically been to 4 countries for trips (not many, but it is not like I have stayed at home 100% of the time) but they were merely things I participated in as a consequence of other decisions. I could even see myself checking out some other places one day for a number of reasons. It's not that I think it doesn't have value at all. But it isn't part of my identity.
I would hazaard a guess that most people don't maximize the value out of the regions in which they live. Perhaps travelling gets them into a mindset with an open mind to experience new things. But there isn't any reason you cannot do a lot of that at home. More efficient on time and uses less material resources too.
Personal experience has taught me nothing says professional Nazi sympathizing puppy kicker like disliking travel.
I don't really care for travel as a hobby or social norm; I consider its present value in society as highly overrated. Oh, I've technically been to 4 countries for trips (not many, but it is not like I have stayed at home 100% of the time) but they were merely things I participated in as a consequence of other decisions. I could even see myself checking out some other places one day for a number of reasons. It's not that I think it doesn't have value at all. But it isn't part of my identity.
I would hazaard a guess that most people don't maximize the value out of the regions in which they live. Perhaps travelling gets them into a mindset with an open mind to experience new things. But there isn't any reason you cannot do a lot of that at home
. More efficient on time and uses less material resources too.Re: What drives the desire to travel?
o
Last edited by JasonR on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
I think some people have "hungry eyes" for travel and other people know that it is one means by which to acquire "fresh eyes." I might be wrong because I only have my own experience to go by but I think developing a close relationship with somebody from another country, culture or socio-economic niche is more perspective-altering than simply transporting yourself to another place. You might even find yourself becoming a bit home-sick by proxy.
It's also a well known phenomenon that people will do things while traveling that they don't do in their home realm such as go to museum exhibits or the beach or take public transportation and examine the architecture. Maybe one cure for "hungry eyes" for travel would be to train to become a tour guide in your own town.
It's also a well known phenomenon that people will do things while traveling that they don't do in their home realm such as go to museum exhibits or the beach or take public transportation and examine the architecture. Maybe one cure for "hungry eyes" for travel would be to train to become a tour guide in your own town.
Re: What drives the desire to travel?
Travel doesn't equate tourism to me. But it seems a lot of people equate travel and tourism here? Tourism never really appealed to me, and I never traveled for that reason.
I really only ever went for extended periods of time and lived there for awhile. IMO, it's not travel unless you go somewhere that could potentially produce culture shock, and then spend time there, rent a place, learn some of the language, live like a local, eat like a local, etc.
I guess the main appeal of it is probably the fact that every day becomes an adventure. How & what to eat? How to use that squat toilet? What bizarre behaviour (to your culture but not theirs) will you notice? There's so many differences and so many things to learn and experience that even staying 2 years would not be enough.
P.S. Jacob, you may have been to a few countries, and gone to some slightly more exotic locales for conferences. But.. I'm not sure if you've traveled.
I really only ever went for extended periods of time and lived there for awhile. IMO, it's not travel unless you go somewhere that could potentially produce culture shock, and then spend time there, rent a place, learn some of the language, live like a local, eat like a local, etc.
I guess the main appeal of it is probably the fact that every day becomes an adventure. How & what to eat? How to use that squat toilet? What bizarre behaviour (to your culture but not theirs) will you notice? There's so many differences and so many things to learn and experience that even staying 2 years would not be enough.
P.S. Jacob, you may have been to a few countries, and gone to some slightly more exotic locales for conferences. But.. I'm not sure if you've traveled.