What drives the desire to travel?

Simple living, extreme early retirement, becoming and being wealthy, wisdom, praxis, personal growth,...
jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15969
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by jacob »

Public service announcement. Reminder from the forum rules.

2) DON'T USE THE QUOTE FUNCTION AS A REPLY BUTTON! Some people use phones or textreaders to keep up, so please don't abuse the quote function. Don't quote the entire post you're responding to. Because if you do, people have to scroll through all that only to learn that you're just responding to the post above :( IF you're responding to the entire post (which is the case in most cases), just start your post with @theirusername. Then respond. Only use the quote function when/if responding to specific paragraphs or sentences and edit everything else out.

Freedom_2018
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:10 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Freedom_2018 »

Sorry..I think I just did it in another thread on SUVs. First and hopefully last time.

Just when I thought I was becoming more tech savvy using fancy forum functionality :(

User avatar
Mister Imperceptible
Posts: 1669
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

“I am not much an advocate for travelling, and I observe that men run away to other countries, because they are not good in their own, and run back to their own, because they pass for nothing in the new places. For the most part, only the light characters travel. Who are you that have no task to keep you at home? I have been quoted as saying captious things about travel; but I mean to do justice. I think, there is a restlessness in our people, which argues want of character. All educated Americans, first or last, go to Europe; −− perhaps, because it is their mental home, as the invalid habits of this country might suggest. An eminent teacher of girls said, "the idea of a girl's education, is, whatever qualifies them for going to Europe." Can we never extract this tape−worm of Europe from the brain of our countrymen? One sees very well what their fate must be. He that does not fill a place at home, cannot abroad. He only goes there to hide his insignificance in a larger crowd. You do not think you will find anything there which you have not seen at home? The stuff of all countries is just the same. Do you suppose, there is any country where they do not scald milkpans, and swaddle the infants, and burn the brushwood, and broil the fish? What is true anywhere is true everywhere. And let him go where he will, he can only find so much beauty or worth as he carries.

Of course, for some men, travel may be useful. Naturalists, discoverers, and sailors are born. Some men are made for couriers, exchangers, envoys, missionaries, bearers of despatches, as others are for farmers and working−men. And if the man is of a light and social turn, and Nature has aimed to make a legged and winged creature, framed for locomotion, we must follow her hint, and furnish him with that breeding which gives currency, as sedulously as with that which gives worth. But let us not be pedantic, but allow to travel its full effect. The boy grown up on the farm, which he has never left, is said in the country to have had no chance, and boys and men of that condition look upon work on a railroad, or drudgery in a city, as opportunity. Poor country boys of Vermont and Connecticut formerly owed what knowledge they had, to their peddling trips to the Southern States. California and the Pacific Coast is now the university of this class, as Virginia was in old times. `To have some chance' is their word. And the phrase `to know the world,' or to travel, is synonymous with all men's ideas of advantage and superiority. No doubt, to a man of sense, travel offers advantages. As many languages as he has, as many friends, as many arts and trades, so many times is he a man. A foreign country is a point of comparison, wherefrom to judge his own. One use of travel, is, to recommend the books and works of home; [we go to Europe to be Americanized;] and another, to find men. For, as Nature has put fruits apart in latitudes, a new fruit in every degree, so knowledge and fine moral quality she lodges in distant men. And thus, of the six or seven teachers whom each man wants among his contemporaries, it often happens, that one or two of them live on the other side of the world.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson
The Conduct of Life, Essay: Culture

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9789&sid=ed6667e4fc ... 4438b93d1f

Lucky C
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:09 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Lucky C »

I've exploited rewards cards for the occasional free flights and hotel stays - pretty easy to do without going crazy "travel hacking" - and since I'm in the midst of high earning working years, it just makes sense to travel on vacation rather than use vacation hours staying put. The cost is not much in the grand scheme of things, and at least lately my net worth ends up being higher at the end of the vacation than at the start.

I agree that traveling purely to consume different things is kind of pointless, but there are better reasons to travel based on interests or hobbies. I'm interested in wildlife and gardening, and have fond memories of the varied wildlife in Galapagos and the desert. I've stayed on a cacao farm in Ecuador, a date farm in California, and have seen inspiring gardens in various biomes.

In Italy, the food really is that much better, using ingredients that would be quite pricy in the U.S. if you were trying to make the real deal at home. But the more "priceless" aspect of our Italy trip was seeing Pompeii and the basilicas and other buildings that are older than anything in America.

As an engineer, I have greatly appreciated trips to Hoover Dam, the Boeing jet assembly plant, and the Panama Canal. Seeing these massive feats of engineering just doesn't compare to watching a video of them.

And as someone who doesn't like to exercise just for the sake of exercising, I have found great satisfaction in hiking toward the goal of seeing a volcano or ancient petroglyphs or just a beautiful view. Combining physical activities with eating hearty but generally healthy foods on vacation, I've mostly come back to work in better shape than when I left.

Now, however, we are settling down as a family and my "regular career" working years will be coming to an end. Any travel in the near term will be local day trips / a few hours drive or less. I'm glad that I was able to see so many different things related to my interests, that have shown me what's possible in different environments. Perhaps travel is more appealing to INTPs (me), who want to see what sorts of possibilities exist in this world, vs. INTJs who might want to just pick a place & lifestyle and stick to it?

slsdly
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by slsdly »

It's funny to reread my post from 4 years ago. I've changed a lot since then. Exercise has become a lot more important in my life. If how I feel during the best moments of nordic skiing or yoga is how people feel during travel, I can appreciate why they do it. As for myself, I feel unchanged by it. The only "travel" I wish to do is getting on a bus to local nordic ski trails, and to see my family. If those things were located next door, I doubt I'd ever get on a coach bus/plane.

Stahlmann
Posts: 1121
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:05 pm

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Stahlmann »

.
Last edited by Stahlmann on Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

prognastat
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by prognastat »

The only reason I really travel is visiting Family, which do tend to be longer trips as they are spread across the world, however I don't tend to enjoy travelling. For me the actual travelling part(driving, flights etc) are just the worst and isn't worth the actual experience in most cases for anything but visiting family.

This might be having seen various countries when growing up and having had my fill of that before becoming adult or just my general disposition. The fact that it tends to be costly doesn't help now.

FruGal61
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:06 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by FruGal61 »

I don't travel a lot but I do enjoy European travel for the history, art, architecture and different sights and vistas. The problem for me is finding people to travel with who have the money and the time to travel and that said, don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of money and who are easy-going when it comes to travel. Getting up with an alarm at the crack of dawn each day to stand in line at a well know touristy sight is not my idea of a good time but many people feel the need to pack every minute seeing tourist destinations, standing in line, getting tickets, etc.

Finding kindred souls to travel with is a challenge for me currently. I am feeling the need to experience some different sights to break up the monotony. I have a sweet boyfriend who has no money to travel so if I went with him, I would have to pay. That might make things stressful but it is something I am considering if we can both get $100 round trip flights with miles. Coordinating schedules with other people who have traditional jobs with pre-determined vacation time is difficult as you have to make plans very far in advance.

With the rise (er, takeover) of social media in the last 10 years, people tend to go overboard posting travel photos and travel does seem to have become a competitive sport with plenty of bragging rights. If you are constantly posting photos in real time and spending the entire time on your phone responding to envious posts from your friends back home, is that really "getting away from it all"? This is off-putting behavior but is considered normal now and it seems to make such travelers feel important.

I am considering a last minute venture overseas - perhaps solo - in September or early October although I'm not sure if I have the cojones or organizational skills to make it happen. Also considering dropping some serious cash on a flexible-style group tour but wondering if it is worth it since it will probably end up costing me upwards of $3,000 for 12 days.

I do have some wonderful memories of overseas trips. This is probably what motivates me to travel.

Jason

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Jason »

I've been struggling with this issue mainly because I have no desire to travel. My wife and I were planning a trip to Italy but I said "no" because I want the money. Now my sugar-mother-in-law wants to take the entire family before she dies (she's been dying since I've known her) so I have no financial excuse as the big ticket items are being paid for. I get a free trip but with people I'd prefer not to have thanksgiving with let alone travel to Italy with. I like my MIL but there's a part of me that now wants her to die before next June. I would like to see the Sistine Chapel and walk around with my wife but I'm skittish to begin with so I'm doing my best to handle this. I'm not afraid to fly I just hate the logistics. The packing, the cab, the waiting, the assholes, the long plane ride, the assholes on the long plane ride. And my wife says I'll need to get one of those man pouches so I don't get pickpocketed and quite frankly I'd rather get pickpocketed than wear a man pouch. What happens if they try to steal my man pouch? I'll be in the middle of Vatican square in a strap of war with some Italian hoodlum, the Pope on his balcony pointing and laughing with the Cardinals "Look at the fanook fighting for his man pouch!!!" and I hear him and yell "Fuck you Pontiff at least I don't walk around in a robe" at which point I get distracted and the hoodlum takes my man pouch and the Pope curses me to an eternity in hell wearing a man pouch. I know that whole scenario is like highly unlikely but it's possible shit like that that makes me want to push my MIL down her basement steps.

FruGal61
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:06 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by FruGal61 »

@jason. I am LOLz'ing, as the kids like to say. So....I have been to Italy three times and if you are getting a free trip, you should definitely go. My first trip in the 1980's included Rome which is fascinating but I hear Rome has just gotten busier and more crammed with tourists. If you can get out to the countryside, especially Tuscany with it's wonderful old hill towns, that is where you will really fall in love with Italy (in my humble opinion). The coast (Cinque Terre) is also wonderful. I have also heard Pompeii, although a big tourist site, is well worth visiting. The Amalfi coast is a place I would love to visit.

Regarding pickpocketing, I went to Paris two years ago for the second time since the 1980's and read numerous articles online about how smelly, dirty, awful and overrated Paris was, as well as the risk of being pickpocketed. I was not expecting much but was pleasantly surprised to not experience any of this. I used a messenger bag which I put over one shoulder and kept close to my body when on the train or in a crowd. You do have to be careful but it was not nearly as stressful as I had heard. You could find an attractive over one shoulder man purse which is common for men to use in Europe.

And did I not recently read that the fanny pack or as you say "man pouch" is making a major fashion comeback? Just in time for your Italy trip! :lol:

thrifty++
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by thrifty++ »

For me travelling provides a few things:

- Visual stimuli - I receive massive benefits from seeing things I dont normally see. This is a major source of enjoyment for me. I enjoy seeing new forms of architecture and nature that I am not normally exposed to.

- Skill building - I enjoy developing new skills only possible in other countries - such as learning new languages

- climate - I like to escape winter in the country I live by going somewhere that is warm during that period of time

- relax - its provides a more easily sellable period of time off work where I dont have to work. Harder to get approval for time off to stay home.

However I notice for many people travelling is a keeping up with the joneses ego focused affair. People feel some pressure to say they have been to such and such a place and to skirt across as many places as possible so they can say they have been there. I used to feel some of this pressure. Now that I am in my 30s I do what I want. I like going to only one country at a time and for a long time. The less time in buses, trains, planes, the better.

Jason

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Jason »

(@) FruGal61

I have heard the exact things about Italy as you mentioned as well as the same things about Venice as you said about Rome. From an interest level, I would love to see Rome because of the history. I have been reading about it as well. I just finished Mary Beard SPQR and am now reading Pagans and Christians by Robin Lane Fox. The first is about the people and government, the latter about the religious syncretism. Beard says we don't learn "from" Ancient Rome we learn from "engaging with" Ancient Rome. And I would really like to meet the Pope. He seems like a nice guy. But I know you need like an Elephant Man level major facial deformation for him to approach you and then if you are found to be essentially a swathed eggplant with limbs you might find yourself lucky enough to have him cradle your grossly misshaped head.

It will not be my decision where in Italy we travel. My only stipulation was that I will not share a villa where I have to live and eat with them. I want a hotel where breakfast is served although I heard Italians are not a breakfast kind of people.

Our resident ERE paisano Seppia put a lot of effort in a thread about Italy that I will dig up. You may want to as well. He gives a lot of useful advice/opinions.

I think the issue with the fanny pack is the physical gesture of walking around with a bag which has been the exclusive domain of women for the better part of my life. I've watched women deal with the strap issue and how they divvy up their secondary sexual characteristics from both a logistical and sexual perspective and its pretty much the equivalent of a guy publicly adjusting his junk which means I will now have dual concerns which I am really uncomfortable with. And I understand how middle age white guy I sound but quite frankly I could give a shit. I mean would you like it if someone says for now on you have to walk around with a sack containing two marbles affixed between your legs in addition to your hand bag? It's not just unfair its downright fucking unseemly.

Frugalchicos
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:23 pm
Contact:

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Frugalchicos »

@Jason & Frugal61

I think you guys are talking about something like this? I can totally see you wearing something like that Jason... You would be super exotic among the Italian crowd

Image

RealPerson
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:33 pm

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by RealPerson »

Jason, you might like this even better.
https://youtu.be/Czssbj5fg2w

It does get quite warm in Italy and hydrating is always an issue.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by Jin+Guice »

I've just returned from a vacation to Buenos Aires and this thread was on my mind the whole time. Sadly I see it's degraded into a discussion of the finest asset protection by testicular pouch.


Towards the OP:

Firstly, let's all agree that traveling to impress other people is probably not a worthwhile pursuit and that a forum that criticizes how >95% of our fellow citizens consume will likely not be impressed by how they travel.

The question that interests me from this thread is whether or not perceived gains from visiting foreign places can be accomplished within 100 or so miles of someone's current location. I travel for cultural experiences/ enrichment but Jacob made the point that travelers hang out with foreigners of the same class and attitudes while on the road.I probably do have more in common with most foreign residents of the same class than my countrymen of a different class. This was the question I was thinking about while on vacation.

I had a great trip and found that I had experiences in Argentina that would be difficult to have at home. I speak a small amount of Spanish but I don't know enough to communicate effectively. I stayed with a host from couchsurfing who was fluent in English but anytime I went out I could barely communicate. This meant I spent most days not talking and not being able to understand most of things that were said around me or to me. It was difficult to do simple tasks such as acquire food. Grocery stores are organized differently there so basic things like buying a tooth brush or yeast were very hard. This was a nice reminder of how quickly things break down without the connivence of easy consumerism.

Argentina is an interesting country economically. They came very close to economically catching up to Europe and the U.S. but peaked around 1900 (in a relative sense). Since then it's been inflationary monetary policy, regime change and corruption. Argentina can thus be considered a "developing" country but it is near the top of that class. They have excellent infrastructure (anecdotal of course) which I'm guessing is a result of almost becoming a rich country around the time infrastructure was largely being built. Argentinians thus live a life not extremely different than Americans but on a fraction of the income. Argentina is ahead of the U.S. (my perception) in several ways, often by lagging "behind" them. It is much more likely that a thing there will be repaired than thrown away. Houses are generally smaller. They have free WIFI on the subway and in several parks. The neighborhoods are "mixed use" and walkable with many small shops and vendors rather than large chains. They tend to use less packaging and the city is very clean. There are several excellent parks and a great fine arts museum that is free. The subway and the bike rental system are subsidized and very cheap.

Of course I "know" that people speak different languages in different places and that most countries in the world are poorer than the U.S. I also "know" that it's winter in South America when it's summer here. There is still something visceral about seeing a middle class that survives on ~1 Jacob a year out of necessity rather than choice, just as there is something visceral about stepping outside in 40 degree weather in the middle of August.

Other gains from the vacation were, time for relaxing and thinking, spending time getting to know someone I just met and may never see again (CS host), empanadas on every corner, having a full week to do nothing but walk around a beautiful city, eating out most meals, reenergizing. Getting away from the day to day grind and domestic responsibilities is also a treat. I don't have kids and live with my girlfriend in a house that she owns and it's easy to forget just how much of my week is devoted to doing things for her or for the house and commuting to work. I also get a bit of seasonal depression every summer in New Orleans and escaping to the winter was really nice.

Before I left for the trip I was feeling a bit depressed and not getting much work done, I came back energized and hit the ground running. I ended up losing weight (something I've been struggling with) and breaking a few habits simply by being in a new environment. This was happenstance and by no means guaranteed.

I would agree that most of these things are possible at home if one really spends the time to look for them. I've been to parties in the U.S. where almost no one spoke English. I could take a week off at home, eat out 90% of my meals and simply walk around the city. In a way traveling is cheating. It's easier to do these things in a foreign place where no one knows you or has expectations of you.

For me, any personal growth achieved through travel is ascertained by inconveniencing myself in interesting and new ways. It is still true that if I value these things I should get to know those who lead different lives closer to myself a well. However, small cultural variations are still interesting and the enforced challenge of easy tasks (consuming) becoming challenging is still worth it to me.

I've traveled extensively in the U.S. but have only visited 4 other countries. Perhaps travel will lose value to me once I have a few more countries under my belt or perhaps it won't.

prognastat
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by prognastat »

I mean even in the US you can have vastly different experiences. If you were to travel to Miami, New York, Anchorage, Houston and San Francisco you would get very different experiences from each of those location and that's just staying urban. If you were to go camping you would get an entirely different experience again in various locations across the US.

As for getting a different experience more close to home you can be in a location where you barely hear/see any english and are surrounded by things that seem exotic simply by going to the part of town where people of other ethnicities tend to live. If you go to a neighborhood with predominantly people of Chinese descent you will probably get a very different experience than if you're used to the suburbs. Same for parts of town with a lot of Mexican migrants. I've been to restaurants in the US where most of the staff barely speaks English and had some great food.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

Photographs of exotic landscapes never do them justice. The feeling of looking down from a mountain you've just climbed is addictive.

The camaraderie with other travellers can be addictive too.

They say travel helps you "learn about yourself," which always sounded like bullshit to me. But now I get it. I've learned how resourceful I can be when I need to be, as well as how irresponsible I can be before I can't get away with it.

I never prioritized travel when I was younger. Now that I can afford it a little, I'd say I'm driven by FOMO cool travel stories and jealoisy-inducing selfies on social media. But also the above mentioned self-imposed hardship combined with inspiring landscapes.

lillo9546
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun May 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Location: Italy

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by lillo9546 »

Ego wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:35 pm

When we're at home we do the same few things over and over, with minor variations on the theme. We have to really make an effort to use this living, engaged, novelty-solving part of the brain and use only the antonomic, robotic parts. Doing the same few things over and over is deadening.
Sometimes, let's say an artist, need to have the same routine, live in the same place, do the same things, because this process could allow his "extraordinary" experiences out of the real world, which in the case of a fulltime traveler, would be hard to do.

zbigi
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:04 pm

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by zbigi »

lillo9546 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2023 7:56 am
Sometimes, let's say an artist, need to have the same routine, live in the same place, do the same things, because this process could allow his "extraordinary" experiences out of the real world, which in the case of a fulltime traveler, would be hard to do.
Yep, there are many examples (e.g. Kant, Flaubert, Joyce) of people like that. Many artists, philosophers and scientists were/are brains in a jar, they don't care for external world (or they do, but prefer interacting with it indicrectly - via reading books etc.), and they spend their life in the world of their creations of discoveries.

white belt
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: What drives the desire to travel?

Post by white belt »

@lillo9546 @zbigi

Yes, I think this is very true, although I'll expand the definition of artist to include anyone working on a project requiring a lot of focus. Only by removing all mental output needed for daily living (usually done by following the same routine) do they feel like they can get the focus they need to work on their project. Think of monks wearing the same uniform, eating the same diet, and following the same schedule everyday. Or Steve Jobs and his turtleneck. Or how most fashion designers wear the same outfit everyday.

Post Reply