Lacto-Fermentation Log

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Frita
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Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Frita »

Long-time traditional maker of jams, pickles, and other such items here. During COVID our local public library would have grab and go kits to make cuisine of the world. One this winter was sourkraut which got me started on fermenting all sorts of veggies using this water and salt method.

@Alphaville suggested I start a log here and throw up some recipes. I am just playing; however, I suspect others here can add more expertise. @horsewoman, does this approach authentic? (It is different than what I had in Germany or anywhere actually.)

Spice World: Sourkraut
The first page has my notes. I haven’t kept any more than for the first batch. The remaining juice is delicious chilled as a 2 ounce shot.

https://ibb.co/Xp5H1JR

https://ibb.co/XJMNywj

https://ibb.co/VCrKyxF

https://ibb.co/MpSqSWv

Usually I peel the green off of the green watermelon rind and make curry. (I used to make sugary watermelon rind pickles. Anymore, not so much, too sugary and the family isn’t a big fan.). Now I have been lacto-fermenting using this recipe: https://www.culturesforhealth.com/lear ... d-pickles/

What about everyone else?

basuragomi
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by basuragomi »

I've been making kimchi for the better part of a decade.

Best tips I can give:

- Ferment everything on a tray, in a tied-off garbage bag and burp it daily/twice daily with a high-flow fan on. That catches dripping, keeps out pests and minimizes the smell which otherwise permeates everything.
- You might be tempted to do whole-leaf kimchi. If this is done in a standard quart mason jar it will bubble and spray like crazy because there's no escape pathways for bubbles and you have to chop it to fit in your bowl/mouth anyways. Just chop the leaves in advance.
- Korean gochugaru is not very spicy. If you want melt-your-face spice buy western-style crushed pepper flakes and mix those in.
- Don't wear anything that you care about keeping unstained. Kimchi juice spray will coat everything in your working area. Wear gloves.
- If you're using 1+ year old ferments consider cooking the kimchi before eating.
- Fermented brine shrimp makes a great broth base. You'll have a lot left over.

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Alphaville
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Alphaville »

hello & thanks for starting this!who knows where it might take us...

i used to make sauerkraut in a big mason jar with a cloth cover and real sloppy weights when i lived in a cabin, but my last attempt was in a "proper" fermentation crock (no water seal, just weights) and it yielded no fermentation plus grew some black mold around the edges.

not sure if the mold came from the cabbage itself (ever seen those black speckles?) or from the water supply/atmosphere. eg here i get mold in the sink drains, shower curtains, etc... it's a desert, so while not abundant, mold is actually ferocious, great at clinging to the least bit of humidity.

as for the cause of the fail, i think i added too much salt, which inhibited everything... except for the mold next to the surface.

maybe next time i'll use not just filtered water but also boiled. autoclaved, even.

-

i make fake kimchi by adding scallions, ginger, and hot sauce to sauerkraut :lol: (yes, i'm a criminal)

i once looked up a real recipe and wow, it was hard. finding gochugaru in an american rural setting isn't exactly easy. so... this is how i came up with my kludge. it's not bad actually.

--

i notice @frita's recipe might be sourced from the spruce eats.... might look at that too...
https://www.thespruceeats.com/homemade- ... ut-1447249
wth is "pickling salt" 🤔

eta: https://www.allrecipes.com/article/what ... ling-salt/
i'Ve got diamond crystal so it should sub well by weight

--

watermelon rinds look good! maybe i can try with cucumbers? found some cheap ones last week, and they're the same family...

Frita
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Frita »

Alphaville wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 9:06 am
Some thoughts on moldy sourkraut:
—How were your successful and unsuccessful sourkraut making attempts different (recipe, methods, time of year/temperature/humidity, etc.)?
—With dry curing meats, low humidity is a problem. Could that have been an issue with the dry fermented sourkraut?
—You mentioned lived in a desert. Do you experience big night and day temperature variances? That messes with tepache. It seems to repeatedly put it on hyper-growth and then halt the process.

We seem to have mold and mildew growth here too. Dry climate, high winds, high altitude, hard water, four seasons if we’re lucky (winter, June, July, and August). One has to clean regularly (like daily touch ups for most things with weekly intense scrubs) to keep on top of it.

Regarding pickling salt, I have found that any non-iodized salt without anti-caking agents are fine. Sometimes I have to break up lumps.

Have you ever eaten watermelon rind? The texture is much firmer that cucumber, which tends to wilt or even get mushy when exposed to acid. While lacto-fermented cucumbers will be delicious, they will not be a one to one substitute for watermelon rind.

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Alphaville
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Alphaville »

Frita wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:14 am
Some thoughts on moldy sourkraut:
—How were your successful and unsuccessful sourkraut making attempts different (recipe, methods, time of year/temperature/humidity, etc.)?
part of the problem was i didn't keep online notes of that phase of my life so i don't know what the formula was anymore. that cabin had wild temperature swings, easily from 45 to 85 within a day sometimes, my equipment was imperfect/kludged, salt was who knows, cabbage likely walmart, i kept the crock in the bathroom next to the laundry suppkies :lol:.

in this apartment the temperature was around 65 and stable and the cabbages were hippy ones, but i think in general i used too much salt which kills *everything*. did that twice in fact--first try i just ate as salty pickle, second time in a big crock submerged with weights it grew mold.

i had a big ohio stoneware preserving crock, with a lid, but it's not a water seal lid. so maybe, who knows, something flew/crawled in :lol:

the crock later got used for holding crackers and stuff. im supposed to autoclave the weights but angtft :D

i should return to primitive 3qt mason jar method with the cabbage leaf on top. easier to hold foating bits. might turn the weights into knife sharpeners ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Frita wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:14 am
Have you ever eaten watermelon rind? The texture is much firmer that cucumber, which tends to wilt or even get mushy when exposed to acid. While lacto-fermented cucumbers will be delicious, they will not be a one to one substitute for watermelon rind.
yeah i think candided it's used in cakes and stuff. kinda leathery almost. but i dont have watermelon yet, plus the lady is a fan of kosher dills. so i might start from your recipe & iterate, as the salt/water ratio seems to be the key to all.

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Alphaville
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Alphaville »

hey, thanks for starting this.

anyway i just wanted to log my first experiment, which was this:

some time ago i bought a pricey jar of sauerkraut for "the party meats" (fake meats). bubbies brand, comes refrigerated, has live cultures? normally $8, but was on sale.

after eating i kept the juice.

recently and inspired by this thread i dumped some cucumber spears in the jar! left out a couple of days... blam! tasty pickles. WAT.

anyway, i'll continue adding cucumbers to that magic jar and and see :lol:

thanks for everything, it was a nice ride.

mooretrees
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by mooretrees »

I tried and failed with my first asparagus fermentation. I didn't weight down the tops well enough, thinking I'd be more diligent about pushing them down each day. I didn't. It got a little warm and some white yeast sprouted that I kept pulling off. It was fine for a few days, but then I forgot about them and it took over. The yeast took over and while I believe it was a harmless yeast, a kamn yeast, it made the asparagus not palatable to taste. I tried rinsing them and eating the asparagus after rinsing all the yeast off, but they didn't taste good enough to keep.

So, lesson learned, really need to weigh down the food AND check daily to stay on top of anything growing that is undesirable.

mooretrees
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by mooretrees »

Taking another plunge into lacto fermentation with: cukes and garlic started a few days ago and my first batch of home grown cabbage sauerkraut. It's warm outside so I'm monitoring them more and when the pickle broth turned cloudy I got a little worried. I sampled the brine and it was really salty. There isn't any growth on the surface so I did some internet searching. Turns out that the likely reason it is cloudy is desirable, growth of the lactic acid bacteria. So, good news.

I'm doing some other types of fermentation that aren't (I believe) are lacto fermentation but I'll include them here for fun. I've got a batch of garlic in honey, should be tasty in another five months. It's hippy 'medicine' and the honey takes away, after months, the heat of garlic. I made it last fall and I love it. Supposed to be an anti-viral. The last fermentation I started today is a cherry vinegar from my neighbor's sour cherries. Should be a month or so before I get interesting tasting vinegar.

I'm considering making a fermented cherry chutney. Plus some standard pies as they are sour cherries. Or give them away to folks so they can make pies.

Also, will be placing a towel under all of the jars as they're just too messy.

Frita
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by Frita »

@mooretrees
After not logging onto the forum for awhile, reading about your fermentations was fun. Sour cherries, ah, those are like gold around here. I am hoping to one day score a Bali cherry volunteer.

I have been making low sugar jam, chutney, and dehydrated fruit for local ripe offerings. My family can eat the later faster than I make it. So, my new rule is no sampling until it’s done. Next up is fruit-infused vodka, dandelion jelly, stevia-sweetened fruit roll ups, and perhaps a jug of wine. Oh, my sourdough starter is upstairs as the basement is too cold now.
mooretrees wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:35 pm
I tried and failed with my first asparagus fermentation...So, lesson learned, really need to weigh down the food AND check daily to stay on top of anything growing that is undesirable.
Turns out that the likely reason it is cloudy is desirable, growth of the lactic acid bacteria. So, good news.
When I make tepache, a fermented pineapple rind drink, a white growth does develop on the surface. I just skim it off once or twice a day. Either it works with the flavors or is different than what you got.

One trick I have found is to put a a few layers of moist organic paper towel or cheesecloth on top of the fermentation with or without the weight. That does help.

All my lacto-fermentation has some cloudiness which would be undesirable in pickled products. It does settle out. Typically, I shake it up before drinking because I like the flavors.
mooretrees wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:35 pm
I've got a batch of garlic in honey, should be tasty in another five months. It's hippy 'medicine' and the honey takes away, after months, the heat of garlic. I made it last fall and I love it. Supposed to be an anti-viral.
This sounds interesting. I will investigate.
mooretrees wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:35 pm
Also, will be placing a towel under all of the jars as they're just too messy.
I put mine on small, toaster oven-sized baking trays that have one inch sides. Supposedly, if one burps the jars daily, the overflow does not happen. But it is easy to forget that step...

mooretrees
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Re: Lacto-Fermentation Log

Post by mooretrees »

Started a fermented cherry chutney today. A quick sip of the brine was delicious. I omitted the orange rind as I don't have the right tool and I refuse to use a grater for rind. Also, then I would have had to buy an orange and I wasn't feeling it.

Thinking of trying my hand at some fermented lentil crepe type things here soon. Takes three or four days, but seems interesting and I've tons of lentils not getting eaten.

Also, going to have my first ever "culture club" next week. I'll invited folks over who have expressed an interest in fermenting, try and ferment something and just generally talk about it. I've been thinking of an agenda as sometimes it's nice to have a lightly planned evening to prevent awkward milling about. One fellow I'd talked to about it had wanted to ferment a mustard spread. I just met a woman who makes a mild kimchi, so I'll hoping she'll want to come. She didn't want to teach anyone as she didn't feel competent enough.

@frita here's the video I used for the honey garlic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKCFmPUgo0

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